Slow computer

On Mon, 2 Jan 2006 12:20:22 -0000, "Mike M" wrote:
>cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user) wrote:

>> The more useful thing is to ask: What is it about your system setups
>> that prevent you from experiencing the problem?

>> Standard settings I use:
>> - multiple HD volumes
>Yes

OK. Primary + Extended, or multi-Primary?

>> - mixture of FAT16 and FAT32 volumes
>No FAT32 only

OK... I wouldn't expect that to be an issue, but who knows? To this
day, my small user data D: volume is FAT16 to take advantage of the
large clusters, smaller FATs and easier data recovery esp. < 32k files

>> - View As Web Page and active desktop are suppressed
>Active Desktop disabled via TweakUI and Classic folder view selected at
>Folder Options | View

OK; I do that via Desktop and Folder Properties only, rather than via
TweakUI, so that's a subtle difference in our SOP.

>> - WSH engines are renamed away
>No since I try not to be paranoid, I leave it to my doctor to do the
>worrying.

<g>

I don't use script files, so I have no reason to leave them enabled.
With so many extensions to remember and manage, I find killing the
engine is an easier way to do it in these OSs (I use Walter Clayton's
..REG tip to suppress scripting in XP)

>> - show all files, show full path, show all file name extensions
>Yes naturally

Kewl! Do you also find that after Safe Mode in any Win9x, the "show
full path" setting is invariably lost?

>> - List View, Status and Tool bars enabled
>Details View, Status and Standard Buttons & Address bar enabled but not
>Links which is also suppressed on the Favourites menu.

OK, that sounds similar except I more often use List than Details.

>> - default folder action is Explore, not Open
>Yes

>> - Open is set to re-use the same window
>No

That's interesting - do you have navigation through Open view spawn a
new window for each path traversal, a la Mac OS?

>> - WinZip is installed, typically version 8.1
>Compressed folders no, WinZip yes, v8.0

OK. AFAIK Compressed Folders were absent in Win98xx, and I disable
them at install time for WinME, and leave them for XP.

>> - Explorer is set to open in a new instance
>No

That could be the issue. Apparently the logic changed after IE 5.5
and up, in that it would automatically not spawn a new instance if <
32M RAM and would automatically do so if > 32M; it was no longer a
UI-controlled setting. This would imply IE 6 would do the same.

But I can't recall exactly what the RAM threshold was, or whether this
applied to IE, Windows Explorer, or both. I set the setting if it has
a UI; if it does not, I don't force via .REG

>> - My Documents is redirected off C:
>Yes, as is desktop, Temp and SysTemp objects, TIF, message store, etc,
>etc, Note though that relocating the desktop does cause top level content
>on the desktop such as jpg, etc, to open much slower than if located
>elsewhere including in a folder on the desktop. This is also true in XP.

In the Win9x era, I generally relocated My Docs to D:, with a
different name, and Pics and Music to E: likewise. I generally didn't
start relocating Desktop and OE mail store (not using OE) until the XP
era. Temp and TIF I leave on C: for speed, and I shrink TIF to 20M.

>Documents and My Documents are suppressed on the Start Menu (TweakUI),

That I don't do either, so it could be a factor. Windows can get
messy when it starts playing with namespace objects; it seems that
bugs abound there, such as failure to track paths or a possible
tendency to confuse namespace and path as different things.

>A few differences in our typical setups but none that necessarily would
>immediately seem an obvious cause of the problem however enough for us to
>possibly have a very different experience..

Yep. Alas, it's not an obvious problem; MS never did fix it... the
only person I know who may have insight is Raymond Chen, and I haven't
yanked his chain on this as I expect he's uber-busy/stretched.



>---------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
Don't pay malware vendors - boycott Sony
>---------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -

Chris,

Some random comments. Apologies if I've missed something.

> OK. Primary + Extended, or multi-Primary?

PC1, Multiboots. 3 Primaries, no extended. 2 Primaries hidden at all
times. Two HDs. Second HD Extended only.
PC2. Win Me only. 1 Primary + Extended. Two HDs. Second HD Extended
only.

> Kewl! Do you also find that after Safe Mode in any Win9x, the "show
> full path" setting is invariably lost?

Yep, and bugged during 9x betas to be told "by design". Funny design
criteria IMO. A bit like how the Start Menu reverts to large icons after
going to Safe Mode. This also "by design".

> That's interesting - do you have navigation through Open view spawn a
> new window for each path traversal, a la Mac OS?

Yes.

> Temp and TIF I leave on C: for speed, and I shrink TIF to 20M.

Temp, TIF & pagefile all located in my scratch volume which is the first
partition on drive 2 for both PCs.

> In the Win9x era, I generally relocated My Docs to D:, with a
> different name, and Pics and Music to E: likewise.

In my case My Documents is a folder named Data on a volume named Data
(E. I'm nothing but original in my file and folder names. In this case
accessing folder Data on Data on Win Me is nigh on impossible across a LAN
even when shared correctly. Something I never bothered trying to fix as I
like having something to hand at all times to swear at when the going gets
tough.

>>> - Explorer is set to open in a new instance
>> No
>
> That could be the issue. Apparently the logic changed after IE 5.5
> and up, in that it would automatically not spawn a new instance if <
> 32M RAM and would automatically do so if > 32M; it was no longer a
> UI-controlled setting. This would imply IE 6 would do the same.

Oh dear. Mea culpa. I've just realised that one of the two Win Me boxes
is running IE5.5 SP2 (this is for support purposes). RAM is 128MB on the
IE5.5 box and 384MB on the IE6 SP1 box (currently dead). I may try and
revive the IE6 box as this is an all scsi box however it sounds a bit like
Concorde nowadays when all fired up and ready to go.

So my comments about not having seen this problem are now confined to the
all scsi box since IE5.5 SP2 doesn't, from what you say, exhibit the same
problem. One final comment/question. I wonder what proportion of Win9x
users are running their system on a LAN since I was under the impression
(correct me please if I'm wrong) that the problem only rears its head when
copying files across a LAN or are you saying that it also occurs when
copying or moving large numbers of files from folder to folder or volume
to volume on the same PC (in which case I ASSume you have excluded the
possibility of SR being a factor).
--
Mike Maltby
mike.maltby DeleteThis @gmail.com


cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user) <cquirkenews DeleteThis @nospam.mvps.org> wrote:

> On Mon, 2 Jan 2006 12:20:22 -0000, "Mike M" wrote:
>> cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user) wrote:
>
>>> The more useful thing is to ask: What is it about your system setups
>>> that prevent you from experiencing the problem?
>
>>> Standard settings I use:
>>> - multiple HD volumes
>> Yes
>
> OK. Primary + Extended, or multi-Primary?
>
>>> - mixture of FAT16 and FAT32 volumes
>> No FAT32 only
>
> OK... I wouldn't expect that to be an issue, but who knows? To this
> day, my small user data D: volume is FAT16 to take advantage of the
> large clusters, smaller FATs and easier data recovery esp. < 32k files
>
>>> - View As Web Page and active desktop are suppressed
>> Active Desktop disabled via TweakUI and Classic folder view selected
>> at Folder Options | View
>
> OK; I do that via Desktop and Folder Properties only, rather than via
> TweakUI, so that's a subtle difference in our SOP.
>
>>> - WSH engines are renamed away
>> No since I try not to be paranoid, I leave it to my doctor to do the
>> worrying.
>
> <g>
>
> I don't use script files, so I have no reason to leave them enabled.
> With so many extensions to remember and manage, I find killing the
> engine is an easier way to do it in these OSs (I use Walter Clayton's
> .REG tip to suppress scripting in XP)
>
>>> - show all files, show full path, show all file name extensions
>> Yes naturally
>
> Kewl! Do you also find that after Safe Mode in any Win9x, the "show
> full path" setting is invariably lost?
>
>>> - List View, Status and Tool bars enabled
>> Details View, Status and Standard Buttons & Address bar enabled but
>> not Links which is also suppressed on the Favourites menu.
>
> OK, that sounds similar except I more often use List than Details.
>
>>> - default folder action is Explore, not Open
>> Yes
>
>>> - Open is set to re-use the same window
>> No
>
> That's interesting - do you have navigation through Open view spawn a
> new window for each path traversal, a la Mac OS?
>
>>> - WinZip is installed, typically version 8.1
>> Compressed folders no, WinZip yes, v8.0
>
> OK. AFAIK Compressed Folders were absent in Win98xx, and I disable
> them at install time for WinME, and leave them for XP.
>
>>> - Explorer is set to open in a new instance
>> No
>
> That could be the issue. Apparently the logic changed after IE 5.5
> and up, in that it would automatically not spawn a new instance if <
> 32M RAM and would automatically do so if > 32M; it was no longer a
> UI-controlled setting. This would imply IE 6 would do the same.
>
> But I can't recall exactly what the RAM threshold was, or whether this
> applied to IE, Windows Explorer, or both. I set the setting if it has
> a UI; if it does not, I don't force via .REG
>
>>> - My Documents is redirected off C:
>> Yes, as is desktop, Temp and SysTemp objects, TIF, message store,
>> etc, etc, Note though that relocating the desktop does cause top
>> level content on the desktop such as jpg, etc, to open much slower
>> than if located elsewhere including in a folder on the desktop.
>> This is also true in XP.
>
> In the Win9x era, I generally relocated My Docs to D:, with a
> different name, and Pics and Music to E: likewise. I generally didn't
> start relocating Desktop and OE mail store (not using OE) until the XP
> era. Temp and TIF I leave on C: for speed, and I shrink TIF to 20M.
>
>> Documents and My Documents are suppressed on the Start Menu
>> (TweakUI),
>
> That I don't do either, so it could be a factor. Windows can get
> messy when it starts playing with namespace objects; it seems that
> bugs abound there, such as failure to track paths or a possible
> tendency to confuse namespace and path as different things.
>
>> A few differences in our typical setups but none that necessarily
>> would immediately seem an obvious cause of the problem however
>> enough for us to possibly have a very different experience..
>
> Yep. Alas, it's not an obvious problem; MS never did fix it... the
> only person I know who may have insight is Raymond Chen, and I haven't
> yanked his chain on this as I expect he's uber-busy/stretched.
>
>
>
>> ---------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
> Don't pay malware vendors - boycott Sony
>> ---------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -