How to send NNTP "cancel" message?

N. Miller · External Since: Jul 31, 2006 Posts: 820

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:11:03 -0400, Twayne wrote:

> I use msnews.microsoft.NET and I assure you they do/did cancel.

Is that because you've added this entry to your 'hosts' file?

| 64.95.64.198 msnews.microsoft.net

Because that would be the only way to get an IP address response for
'msnews.microsoft.net', and the only way that 'msnews.microsoft.net' could
honor cancels.

Here is a DNS lookup on 'msnews.microsft.net', using DNS, with no
modification of my 'hosts' file:

| 08/27/09 21:53:19 dns msnews.microsoft.net
| No data of requested type
| (Host doesn't exist - try Dig for MX record)

Anybody using their ISP's DNS servers, or the Level 3 DNS servers, or
OpenDNS, will get some variation of that result (including an IP address to
a 'NXDOMAIN" landing page, if using Comcast, or Verizon DNS, as well
OpenDNS).

But, adding an entry to my 'hosts' file, I can get this, instead:

| 08/27/09 21:54:07 dns msnews.microsoft.net
| Canonical name: msnews.microsoft.net
| Addresses:
| 64.95.64.198

That is a viable NNTP server; but is it really 'microsoft.net'?

| 08/27/09 21:58:22 Dns 64.95.64.198
| nslookup 64.95.64.198
| Canonical name: lander.sitesense-oo.com
| Addresses:
| 64.95.64.198

Ooopsy. That is ***NOT*** 'microsoft.anything'!

But that server, which is the canonical name for, 'news.aioe.net', damned
well may honor cancels.

Guess what! Putting 'msnews.microsof.net' into SeaMonkey results in the
following popup:

"Failed to connect to server msnews.microsoft.net". Just as my DNS lookups
on 'msnews.microsoft.net' predicted.

> Why you want to argue about it is beyond me. If you're too slow to bother
> trying something, then that's your own personal problems, I'd say.

I am not "too slow to bother trying" anything. I am trying like hell to show
you that:

There is no 'msnews.microsoft.NET'.
That 'msnews.microsoft.com' definitely does not honor cancels.

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

N. Miller · External Since: Jul 31, 2006 Posts: 820

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:06:23 -0700, N. Miller wrote:

> Anybody using their ISP's DNS servers, or the Level 3 DNS servers, or
> OpenDNS, will get some variation of that result (including an IP address to
> a 'NXDOMAIN" landing page, if using Comcast, or Verizon DNS, as well
> OpenDNS).

Excuse my error. I am getting just slightly perturbed at your silly
stubbornness. What a normal DNS lookup will generate on
'msnews.microsoft.{com|net}' is:

"host not found", not "NXDOMAIN". The consequences of the results are
identical: A failed connection. But the data is different.

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Michael Santovec1 · External Since: Sep 07, 2004 Posts: 3599

In the Clean up dialog at the top is a drop down box that selects the
newsgroups to apply to.

"Outlook Express" does all newsgroups on all your news accounts. You
can select a single news account there or a single newsgroup.

You can also do the Reset by right clicking on a newsgroup in the folder
list, then properties and do the reset that way.

--

Mike - http://TechHelp.Santovec.us

"Mr Smith" <mrsmith.DeleteThis@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:OUTmuE1JKHA.4652@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> "Michael Santovec" <michael_santovec.DeleteThis@prodigy.net> wrote:
>> Doing a unsubscribe and subscribe again in OE won't
>> generally clear up any issues with the news message store.
>
> Thanks. I wondered about that myself.
>
>
>> You need to RESET the newsgroup, which will mark it in OE
>> as if it is visiting the newsgroup for the first time.
>
> How do I reset just one newsgroup?
>
> When I select a newsgroup, then do Tools > Options > Maintenance >
> Clean Up Now > Reset, it resets all newsgroups.
>
> Anyway, I did that to no avail. No big surprise.
>
>
>> You have to be a very blatant spammer before Microsoft will
>> block a sender id.
>
> At least, that's how it is __supposed__ to work. But it is, after
> all, just a list. Sh*t happens!
>
>
>> If an occasional message is blocked, that would most likely
>> be because the message contains one or more spammer keywords.
>> Microsoft does not publish this list.
>
> I seriously doubt that I inadvertently used any words or phrases that
> might triggered a spam filter. You can see for yourself by looking at
> the messages in Google Groups. (See below.)
>
> And if it was just an "occassional" canceled message, it wouldn't
> pique my curiosity. Well, maybe it would; I'm a very curious sort,
> obviously Wink

. But it certainly wouldn't pique my concern.
>
> But this happened to a cluster of recent postings. Most of the
> canceled messages appear on the Google Groups server. Two canceled or
> blocked messages are in my Sent Items folder, but they do even appear
> in Google Groups. I wonder if that's because they refer to a canceled
> message in the References header.
>
> Messages in Google Groups, but no longer on the MSNews server, all in
> this NG:
>
>
> From: "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415.DeleteThis@live.com>
> Subject: Re: Can I disable this: OE scrolls down NG list auto'ly
> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:03:36 -0700
> Message-ID: <uwzNGkTJKHA.356.DeleteThis@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>
>
>
> From: "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415.DeleteThis@live.com>
> Subject: Re: Can I disable this: OE scrolls down NG list auto'ly
> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:16:18 -0700
> Message-ID: <#UGpMrTJKHA.4608@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>
>
>
> From: "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415.DeleteThis@live.com>
> Subject: Re: Can I disable this: OE scrolls down NG list auto'ly
> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:38:05 -0700
> Message-ID: <ObUja6UJKHA.356.DeleteThis@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>
>
>
> From: "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415.DeleteThis@live.com>
> Subject: Re: How to send NNTP "cancel" message?
> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:17:42 -0700
> Message-ID: <eJLniHoJKHA.6016.DeleteThis@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>
>
>
> Messages in my Sent Items folder, but not on the Google Groups or
> MSNews server:
>
>
> From: "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415.DeleteThis@live.com>
> Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress
> References: <e7lS53SJKHA.4376.DeleteThis@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl>
> <#NajP$SJKHA.4608@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>
> <uwzNGkTJKHA.356.DeleteThis@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>
> Subject: Re: Can I disable this: OE scrolls down NG list auto'ly
> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:19:20 -0700
>
>
> From: "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415.DeleteThis@live.com>
> Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress
> References: <e7lS53SJKHA.4376.DeleteThis@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl>
> <#NajP$SJKHA.4608@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>
> <uwzNGkTJKHA.356.DeleteThis@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>
> <OuZZaOUJKHA.356.DeleteThis@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>
> Subject: Re: Can I disable this: OE scrolls down NG list auto'ly
> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:31:09 -0700
>
>
> Thanks for your continued interest. I have yet to try posting with
> that sender id again and in those threads. I plan to do that; just
> haven't gotten around to it.
>
>
> ----- original message -----
>
> "Michael Santovec" <michael_santovec.DeleteThis@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> news:eYrtXJ0JKHA.6016@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> Doing a unsubscribe and subscribe again in OE won't generally clear
>> up any
>> issues with the news message store. You need to RESET the newsgroup,
>> which will mark it in OE as if it is visiting the newsgroup for the
>> first
>> time.
>>
>> You have to be a very blatant spammer before Microsoft will block a
>> sender
>> id. If an occasional message is blocked, that would most likely be
>> because the message contains one or more spammer keywords. Microsoft
>> does
>> not publish this list.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Mike - http://TechHelp.Santovec.us
>>
>>
>>
>> "Mr Smith" <mrsmith.DeleteThis@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>> news:uINRFuvJKHA.4376@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>> "Michael Santovec" <michael_santovec.DeleteThis@prodigy.net> wrote:
>>>> When you came back did you get a notice that the message
>>>> had been canceled or was it just that you couldn't find
>>>> it again?
>>>
>>> One time, I saw a "removed from server" message; other times, the
>>> message
>>> just disappeared.
>>>
>>> I have tried unsubscribing and resubscribing. I am pretty sure the
>>> messages are simply gone from the server. I cannot tell for sure
>>> without
>>> looking at a network trace of the download. But I have deselected
>>> "group
>>> by conversation", and the messages are nowhere to be found within
>>> the
>>> time period that I know they were posted, all in the last couple
>>> days.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Microsoft doesn't cancel many messages unless they
>>>> are obvious spam, contain a virus, or similar. On
>>>> occasion a legitimate message is caught by a filter.
>>>
>>> That is my current theory. I suspect the sender id got added to a
>>> list
>>> of spammers, presumably inadvertently.
>>>
>>> I am assuming that the MSNews server removes suspected spam some
>>> time
>>> later, rather than block it upon arrival. Is that a valid
>>> assumption?
>>>
>>> That would explain why I see the articles in Google Groups, but not
>>> on
>>> the MSNews server anymore.
>>>
>>> Anyway, I am now posting under a different sender identity.
>>>
>>>
>>>> The Microsoft news server is actually a bank of news servers.
>>>> They occasionally get out-of-synch. When that happens, when
>>>> you next connect to a news server it might be a different one
>>>> than you posted to and if the message didn't make it there,
>>>> it will seem to disappear.
>>>
>>> That's an interesting and viable theory.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Also, issues in your news client could cause a message to
>>>> disappear. This includes your view options and blocked
>>>> senders list.
>>>
>>> I considered that, too. I have checked my view options and blocked
>>> sender list. They seem copacetic. If you can suggest anything in
>>> particular that I should look for, I'd be happy to double-check.
>>>
>>> I should reiterate that these messages did appear on the MSNews
>>> server
>>> initially. They were removed (or otherwise disappeared) later,
>>> often
>>> within an hour, one time after a couple days. I don't believe I
>>> made any
>>> changes to my OE configuration in the interim.
>>>
>>> Thanks for your thoughtful ideas.
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- original message -----
>>>
>>> "Michael Santovec" <michael_santovec.DeleteThis@prodigy.net> wrote in message
>>> news:ukumv6rJKHA.1724@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>> When you came back did you get a notice that the message had been
>>>> canceled or was it just that you couldn't find it again?
>>>>
>>>> Messages can be canceled by the news server administrator or server
>>>> side
>>>> filters. Microsoft doesn't cancel many messages unless they are
>>>> obvious
>>>> spam, contain a virus, or similar. On occasion a legitimate
>>>> message is
>>>> caught by a filter.
>>>>
>>>> The Microsoft news server is actually a bank of news servers. They
>>>> occasionally get out-of-synch. When that happens, when you next
>>>> connect
>>>> to a news server it might be a different one than you posted to and
>>>> if
>>>> the message didn't make it there, it will seem to disappear.
>>>>
>>>> Also, issues in your news client could cause a message to
>>>> disappear.
>>>> This includes your view options and blocked senders list.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Mike - http://TechHelp.Santovec.us
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415.DeleteThis@live.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:e0hPS5hJKHA.4608@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam.DeleteThis@mymail.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> The Cancel Message option in OE works
>>>>>
>>>>> Aha, RTFM! I shoulda tried Help first. Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Msnews, (this server), does not honor cancel message requests.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks. Saves me the trouble of trying.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any idea how a message I posted and saw on the server
>>>>> (msnews.microsoft.com)
>>>>> subsequently was removed? ("Subsequently" = within a few hours,
>>>>> not
>>>>> >90 days.)
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't remember what happened exactly. The message title was
>>>>> lined-through, and when I hovered the cursor over it, I think,
>>>>> that's
>>>>> when I saw a message to the effect "removed from server". Some
>>>>> time
>>>>> later, perhaps when I exited and subsequently revisited the NG,
>>>>> the
>>>>> message title was removed. I presume the message was removed from
>>>>> my
>>>>> cache.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> AFAIK, very few if any servers still do.
>>>>>
>>>>> Right. At a company I worked for, our internal news servers
>>>>> initially
>>>>> accepted "cancel" messages, but only for local newsgroups. At
>>>>> least,
>>>>> that was the intent. We disabled the feature altogether when we
>>>>> learned how easy it was for outsiders to cancel messages due to
>>>>> some
>>>>> individuals' poor crossposting behavior.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't believe that the news client you use, or any other tool
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> make
>>>>>> a difference. Either the server accepts your request, or it
>>>>>> doesn't.
>>>>>
>>>>> Right. The only verification specified by RFC 1036 is to ensure
>>>>> that
>>>>> the sender of the "cancel" message is the same as the sender of
>>>>> message
>>>>> being canceled. But that is easy to spoof.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- original message -----
>>>>>
>>>>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam.DeleteThis@mymail.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>> news:%23Qa4BJgJKHA.4652@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> The Cancel Message option in OE works, but only if the server you
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> sending it to obliges and actually does cancel the message.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Msnews, (this server), does not honor cancel message requests.
>>>>>> AFAIK,
>>>>>> very
>>>>>> few if any servers still do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't believe that the news client you use, or any other tool
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> make
>>>>>> a difference. Either the server accepts your request, or it
>>>>>> doesn't.
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bruce Hagen
>>>>>> MS-MVP [Mail]
>>>>>> Imperial Beach, CA
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415.DeleteThis@live.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:%23yY2rCgJKHA.4432@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>> Can I send an NNTP "cancel" control message using OE?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If not OE, is there some other tool on a standard Win XP (SP3)
>>>>>>> system
>>>>>>> that I can use?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A Google search turned up tech ref pages for the IIS Manager,
>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>> speak
>>>>>>> of sending the "cancel" message. I don't know if I have the IIS
>>>>>>> Manager;
>>>>>>> if I do, obviously I don't know how to run it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alternatively, is there a program on a standard Win XP (SP3)
>>>>>>> system
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> is similar in function to sendmail, the typical SMTP program on
>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>> Unix
>>>>>>> systems?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I know that I can use (Unix) sendmail to create and transmit an
>>>>>>> NNTP
>>>>>>> "cancel" message to a specified server.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of course, I don't know if the "cancel" message would be
>>>>>>> effective on
>>>>>>> that server; and there are NG servers that I cannot even access
>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>> NNTP.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But I'd like to give it a try.
>

Mr Smith · External Since: Aug 27, 2009 Posts: 7

"Michael Santovec" <michael_santovec DeleteThis @prodigy.net> wrote:
> In the Clean up dialog at the top is a drop down box
> that selects the newsgroups to apply to.

Well, a browse dialog box. Right. Thanks.

> You can also do the Reset by right clicking on a
> newsgroup in the folder list, then properties and do
> the reset that way.

The right-click approach is more intuitive to me. In fact, I tried that
first. But I did think to look in the Property sheet Local File tab.

----- original message -----

"Michael Santovec" <michael_santovec DeleteThis @prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:%237inWsAKKHA.1252@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> In the Clean up dialog at the top is a drop down box that selects the
> newsgroups to apply to.
>
> "Outlook Express" does all newsgroups on all your news accounts. You can
> select a single news account there or a single newsgroup.
>
> You can also do the Reset by right clicking on a newsgroup in the folder
> list, then properties and do the reset that way.
>
> --
>
> Mike - http://TechHelp.Santovec.us
>
>
>
> "Mr Smith" <mrsmith DeleteThis @nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:OUTmuE1JKHA.4652@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> "Michael Santovec" <michael_santovec DeleteThis @prodigy.net> wrote:
>>> Doing a unsubscribe and subscribe again in OE won't
>>> generally clear up any issues with the news message store.
>>
>> Thanks. I wondered about that myself.
>>
>>
>>> You need to RESET the newsgroup, which will mark it in OE
>>> as if it is visiting the newsgroup for the first time.
>>
>> How do I reset just one newsgroup?
>>
>> When I select a newsgroup, then do Tools > Options > Maintenance > Clean
>> Up Now > Reset, it resets all newsgroups.
>>
>> Anyway, I did that to no avail. No big surprise.
>>
>>
>>> You have to be a very blatant spammer before Microsoft will
>>> block a sender id.
>>
>> At least, that's how it is __supposed__ to work. But it is, after all,
>> just a list. Sh*t happens!
>>
>>
>>> If an occasional message is blocked, that would most likely
>>> be because the message contains one or more spammer keywords.
>>> Microsoft does not publish this list.
>>
>> I seriously doubt that I inadvertently used any words or phrases that
>> might triggered a spam filter. You can see for yourself by looking at
>> the messages in Google Groups. (See below.)
>>
>> And if it was just an "occassional" canceled message, it wouldn't pique
>> my curiosity. Well, maybe it would; I'm a very curious sort, obviously
>> Wink

. But it certainly wouldn't pique my concern.
>>
>> But this happened to a cluster of recent postings. Most of the canceled
>> messages appear on the Google Groups server. Two canceled or blocked
>> messages are in my Sent Items folder, but they do even appear in Google
>> Groups. I wonder if that's because they refer to a canceled message in
>> the References header.
>>
>> Messages in Google Groups, but no longer on the MSNews server, all in
>> this NG:
>>
>>
>> From: "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415 DeleteThis @live.com>
>> Subject: Re: Can I disable this: OE scrolls down NG list auto'ly
>> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:03:36 -0700
>> Message-ID: <uwzNGkTJKHA.356 DeleteThis @TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>
>>
>>
>> From: "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415 DeleteThis @live.com>
>> Subject: Re: Can I disable this: OE scrolls down NG list auto'ly
>> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:16:18 -0700
>> Message-ID: <#UGpMrTJKHA.4608@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>
>>
>>
>> From: "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415 DeleteThis @live.com>
>> Subject: Re: Can I disable this: OE scrolls down NG list auto'ly
>> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:38:05 -0700
>> Message-ID: <ObUja6UJKHA.356 DeleteThis @TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>
>>
>>
>> From: "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415 DeleteThis @live.com>
>> Subject: Re: How to send NNTP "cancel" message?
>> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:17:42 -0700
>> Message-ID: <eJLniHoJKHA.6016 DeleteThis @TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>
>>
>>
>> Messages in my Sent Items folder, but not on the Google Groups or MSNews
>> server:
>>
>>
>> From: "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415 DeleteThis @live.com>
>> Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress
>> References: <e7lS53SJKHA.4376 DeleteThis @TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl>
>> <#NajP$SJKHA.4608@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>
>> <uwzNGkTJKHA.356 DeleteThis @TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>
>> Subject: Re: Can I disable this: OE scrolls down NG list auto'ly
>> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:19:20 -0700
>>
>>
>> From: "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415 DeleteThis @live.com>
>> Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress
>> References: <e7lS53SJKHA.4376 DeleteThis @TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl>
>> <#NajP$SJKHA.4608@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>
>> <uwzNGkTJKHA.356 DeleteThis @TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>
>> <OuZZaOUJKHA.356 DeleteThis @TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>
>> Subject: Re: Can I disable this: OE scrolls down NG list auto'ly
>> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:31:09 -0700
>>
>>
>> Thanks for your continued interest. I have yet to try posting with that
>> sender id again and in those threads. I plan to do that; just haven't
>> gotten around to it.
>>
>>
>> ----- original message -----
>>
>> "Michael Santovec" <michael_santovec DeleteThis @prodigy.net> wrote in message
>> news:eYrtXJ0JKHA.6016@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>> Doing a unsubscribe and subscribe again in OE won't generally clear up
>>> any
>>> issues with the news message store. You need to RESET the newsgroup,
>>> which will mark it in OE as if it is visiting the newsgroup for the
>>> first
>>> time.
>>>
>>> You have to be a very blatant spammer before Microsoft will block a
>>> sender
>>> id. If an occasional message is blocked, that would most likely be
>>> because the message contains one or more spammer keywords. Microsoft
>>> does
>>> not publish this list.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Mike - http://TechHelp.Santovec.us
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Mr Smith" <mrsmith DeleteThis @nowhere.com> wrote in message
>>> news:uINRFuvJKHA.4376@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>> "Michael Santovec" <michael_santovec DeleteThis @prodigy.net> wrote:
>>>>> When you came back did you get a notice that the message
>>>>> had been canceled or was it just that you couldn't find
>>>>> it again?
>>>>
>>>> One time, I saw a "removed from server" message; other times, the
>>>> message
>>>> just disappeared.
>>>>
>>>> I have tried unsubscribing and resubscribing. I am pretty sure the
>>>> messages are simply gone from the server. I cannot tell for sure
>>>> without
>>>> looking at a network trace of the download. But I have deselected
>>>> "group
>>>> by conversation", and the messages are nowhere to be found within the
>>>> time period that I know they were posted, all in the last couple days.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Microsoft doesn't cancel many messages unless they
>>>>> are obvious spam, contain a virus, or similar. On
>>>>> occasion a legitimate message is caught by a filter.
>>>>
>>>> That is my current theory. I suspect the sender id got added to a list
>>>> of spammers, presumably inadvertently.
>>>>
>>>> I am assuming that the MSNews server removes suspected spam some time
>>>> later, rather than block it upon arrival. Is that a valid assumption?
>>>>
>>>> That would explain why I see the articles in Google Groups, but not on
>>>> the MSNews server anymore.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, I am now posting under a different sender identity.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The Microsoft news server is actually a bank of news servers.
>>>>> They occasionally get out-of-synch. When that happens, when
>>>>> you next connect to a news server it might be a different one
>>>>> than you posted to and if the message didn't make it there,
>>>>> it will seem to disappear.
>>>>
>>>> That's an interesting and viable theory.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Also, issues in your news client could cause a message to
>>>>> disappear. This includes your view options and blocked
>>>>> senders list.
>>>>
>>>> I considered that, too. I have checked my view options and blocked
>>>> sender list. They seem copacetic. If you can suggest anything in
>>>> particular that I should look for, I'd be happy to double-check.
>>>>
>>>> I should reiterate that these messages did appear on the MSNews server
>>>> initially. They were removed (or otherwise disappeared) later, often
>>>> within an hour, one time after a couple days. I don't believe I made
>>>> any
>>>> changes to my OE configuration in the interim.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your thoughtful ideas.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- original message -----
>>>>
>>>> "Michael Santovec" <michael_santovec DeleteThis @prodigy.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:ukumv6rJKHA.1724@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>>> When you came back did you get a notice that the message had been
>>>>> canceled or was it just that you couldn't find it again?
>>>>>
>>>>> Messages can be canceled by the news server administrator or server
>>>>> side
>>>>> filters. Microsoft doesn't cancel many messages unless they are
>>>>> obvious
>>>>> spam, contain a virus, or similar. On occasion a legitimate message
>>>>> is
>>>>> caught by a filter.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Microsoft news server is actually a bank of news servers. They
>>>>> occasionally get out-of-synch. When that happens, when you next
>>>>> connect
>>>>> to a news server it might be a different one than you posted to and if
>>>>> the message didn't make it there, it will seem to disappear.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, issues in your news client could cause a message to disappear.
>>>>> This includes your view options and blocked senders list.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike - http://TechHelp.Santovec.us
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415 DeleteThis @live.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:e0hPS5hJKHA.4608@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam DeleteThis @mymail.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> The Cancel Message option in OE works
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Aha, RTFM! I shoulda tried Help first. Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Msnews, (this server), does not honor cancel message requests.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks. Saves me the trouble of trying.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any idea how a message I posted and saw on the server
>>>>>> (msnews.microsoft.com)
>>>>>> subsequently was removed? ("Subsequently" = within a few hours, not
>>>>>> >90 days.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't remember what happened exactly. The message title was
>>>>>> lined-through, and when I hovered the cursor over it, I think, that's
>>>>>> when I saw a message to the effect "removed from server". Some time
>>>>>> later, perhaps when I exited and subsequently revisited the NG, the
>>>>>> message title was removed. I presume the message was removed from my
>>>>>> cache.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> AFAIK, very few if any servers still do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Right. At a company I worked for, our internal news servers
>>>>>> initially
>>>>>> accepted "cancel" messages, but only for local newsgroups. At least,
>>>>>> that was the intent. We disabled the feature altogether when we
>>>>>> learned how easy it was for outsiders to cancel messages due to some
>>>>>> individuals' poor crossposting behavior.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't believe that the news client you use, or any other tool will
>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>> a difference. Either the server accepts your request, or it doesn't.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Right. The only verification specified by RFC 1036 is to ensure that
>>>>>> the sender of the "cancel" message is the same as the sender of
>>>>>> message
>>>>>> being canceled. But that is easy to spoof.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- original message -----
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam DeleteThis @mymail.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:%23Qa4BJgJKHA.4652@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>> The Cancel Message option in OE works, but only if the server you
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> sending it to obliges and actually does cancel the message.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Msnews, (this server), does not honor cancel message requests.
>>>>>>> AFAIK,
>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>> few if any servers still do.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't believe that the news client you use, or any other tool will
>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>> a difference. Either the server accepts your request, or it doesn't.
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bruce Hagen
>>>>>>> MS-MVP [Mail]
>>>>>>> Imperial Beach, CA
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415 DeleteThis @live.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:%23yY2rCgJKHA.4432@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>>> Can I send an NNTP "cancel" control message using OE?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If not OE, is there some other tool on a standard Win XP (SP3)
>>>>>>>> system
>>>>>>>> that I can use?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A Google search turned up tech ref pages for the IIS Manager, which
>>>>>>>> speak
>>>>>>>> of sending the "cancel" message. I don't know if I have the IIS
>>>>>>>> Manager;
>>>>>>>> if I do, obviously I don't know how to run it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Alternatively, is there a program on a standard Win XP (SP3) system
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> is similar in function to sendmail, the typical SMTP program on
>>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>>> Unix
>>>>>>>> systems?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I know that I can use (Unix) sendmail to create and transmit an
>>>>>>>> NNTP
>>>>>>>> "cancel" message to a specified server.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Of course, I don't know if the "cancel" message would be effective
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> that server; and there are NG servers that I cannot even access
>>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>>> NNTP.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But I'd like to give it a try.
>>
>

Peter Foldes · External Since: May 03, 2005 Posts: 227

Our buddy PC Butts using Shenan's name

--
Peter

Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others
Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.

"Twayne" <nobody.RemoveThis@devnull.spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:OM5S6K4JKHA.1248@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> "Shenan Stanley" <newshelpers.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:d9b96f18-a113-4ce8-a741-5c0cd01cdc89@u38g2000pro.googlegroups.com
>> From time to time I delete messages which are considered to be
>> abusive, or plain rude to other users. The only exception is messages
>> posted by MVPs who are authorised to bully Microsoft customers. Porn
>> is strictly not allowed here so don't even try it!
>
> What the hell? And you claim to be an MVP?
>
>>
>> What exactly is your problem?
>>
>> --
>> Shenan Stanley
>> MS-MVP
> ...
>
>

Mr Smith · External Since: Aug 27, 2009 Posts: 7

"Peter Foldes" <okf22 DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
> Our buddy PC Butts using Shenan's name

You are probably right. At least, I hope you are right. Any way to prove
it?

According to mvp.support.microsoft.com, a reliable source, Shenan's email
address is newshelper DeleteThis @gmail.com.

The email address used in "Shenan's" posting here is newshelpers DeleteThis @gmail.com.
(Note the additional "s".) On the other hand, that really does not prove
anything. It is not difficult to spoof the header records of NG postings
(any email, in fact). It could just be a typo in Shenan's set-up. I doubt
it; but it's possible.

PC Butts is certainly a fraud. Her(?) web site claims that she is an MVP.
But her name does not appear in a search of MVPs at
mvp.support.microsoft.com. Actually, that simply means she is not an MVP
now (Aug). She might have been in the past, as recently as last month
(July).

But a Google search turns up other instances where people claimed that PC
Butts was posting articles in other people's names. And given the
incredible statements in this "Shenan" posting, it certainly seems likely
that it is a fraud.

----- original message -----

"Peter Foldes" <okf22 DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:edyG96DKKHA.4608@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Our buddy PC Butts using Shenan's name
>
> --
> Pete
>
> Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others
> Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.
>
> "Twayne" <nobody DeleteThis @devnull.spamcop.net> wrote in message
> news:OM5S6K4JKHA.1248@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> "Shenan Stanley" <newshelpers DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:d9b96f18-a113-4ce8-a741-5c0cd01cdc89@u38g2000pro.googlegroups.com
>>> From time to time I delete messages which are considered to be
>>> abusive, or plain rude to other users. The only exception is messages
>>> posted by MVPs who are authorised to bully Microsoft customers. Porn
>>> is strictly not allowed here so don't even try it!
>>
>> What the hell? And you claim to be an MVP?
>>
>>>
>>> What exactly is your problem?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Shenan Stanley
>>> MS-MVP
>> ...
>>
>>
>

Peter Foldes · External Since: May 03, 2005 Posts: 227

That ady can easily be forged. Not the IP which gives it away. Look at a bonafide
post from Shenan in another newsgroup and see her Properties

That thief has been using other peoples names across the MS servers

This post of Shenan is definitely from PC Butts

--
Peter

Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others
Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.

"Mr Smith" <mrsmith.DeleteThis@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:OfdTRIEKKHA.1724@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> "Peter Foldes" <okf22.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Our buddy PC Butts using Shenan's name
>
> You are probably right. At least, I hope you are right. Any way to prove it?
>
> According to mvp.support.microsoft.com, a reliable source, Shenan's email address
> is newshelper.DeleteThis@gmail.com.
>
> The email address used in "Shenan's" posting here is newshelpers.DeleteThis@gmail.com. (Note
> the additional "s".) On the other hand, that really does not prove anything. It
> is not difficult to spoof the header records of NG postings (any email, in fact).
> It could just be a typo in Shenan's set-up. I doubt it; but it's possible.
>
> PC Butts is certainly a fraud. Her(?) web site claims that she is an MVP. But her
> name does not appear in a search of MVPs at mvp.support.microsoft.com. Actually,
> that simply means she is not an MVP now (Aug). She might have been in the past,
> as recently as last month (July).
>
> But a Google search turns up other instances where people claimed that PC Butts
> was posting articles in other people's names. And given the incredible statements
> in this "Shenan" posting, it certainly seems likely that it is a fraud.
>
>
> ----- original message -----
>
>
> "Peter Foldes" <okf22.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:edyG96DKKHA.4608@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> Our buddy PC Butts using Shenan's name
>>
>> --
>> Pete
>>
>> Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others
>> Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.
>>
>> "Twayne" <nobody.DeleteThis@devnull.spamcop.net> wrote in message
>> news:OM5S6K4JKHA.1248@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>> "Shenan Stanley" <newshelpers.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:d9b96f18-a113-4ce8-a741-5c0cd01cdc89@u38g2000pro.googlegroups.com
>>>> From time to time I delete messages which are considered to be
>>>> abusive, or plain rude to other users. The only exception is messages
>>>> posted by MVPs who are authorised to bully Microsoft customers. Porn
>>>> is strictly not allowed here so don't even try it!
>>>
>>> What the hell? And you claim to be an MVP?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> What exactly is your problem?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Shenan Stanley
>>>> MS-MVP
>>> ...
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Jim Carlock · External Since: Sep 02, 2009 Posts: 1

"Twayne" <nobody.RemoveThis@devnull.spamcop.net> wrote...
: Actually, MS doesn't GAS about spam on the groups. They will ONLY
: get involved if they receive complaints about illegal and criminal
: activity.

Microsoft used to employ people to delete messages. They appear to not
employ as many people these days and they're NOW letting their news
servers store SPAM.

Some of the synchronizing might happen, but I don't see it as that,
but as an employment / lay-off ordeal.

Servers are easy to synchronize... they all use 256-bit integers to
provide an ID for each message and each message gets a SUBJECT and
a BODY. Such integer IDs make things very easy to synchronize.

Microsoft runs two domain names to connect to the Microsoft servers
as well. I've not looked at this, but it's easy to tracert or ping
to get the IP address for the server. Not sure how the DOMAIN name
servers with the servers they connect to, but it all should end up
transparent and the IP address should not ever change. I do not see
a purpose to duplicate messages upon their news servers, so I see no
purpose for synchronizing. Michael probably knows more about this
than I do, so I'm just throwing ideas out to clear up thoughts in my
own head.

Thanks for any and all replies.

--
Jim Carlock
http://www.microcosmotalk.com/
jcarlock @ domain-name dot com