How to send NNTP "cancel" message?

WhatsUp31415 · External Since: Aug 25, 2009 Posts: 2

Can I send an NNTP "cancel" control message using OE?

If not OE, is there some other tool on a standard Win XP (SP3) system that I
can use?

A Google search turned up tech ref pages for the IIS Manager, which speak of
sending the "cancel" message. I don't know if I have the IIS Manager; if I
do, obviously I don't know how to run it.

Alternatively, is there a program on a standard Win XP (SP3) system that is
similar in function to sendmail, the typical SMTP program on most Unix
systems?

I know that I can use (Unix) sendmail to create and transmit an NNTP
"cancel" message to a specified server.

Of course, I don't know if the "cancel" message would be effective on that
server; and there are NG servers that I cannot even access using NNTP.

But I'd like to give it a try.

Bruce Hagen · External Since: Apr 17, 2004 Posts: 12678

The Cancel Message option in OE works, but only if the server you are
sending it to obliges and actually does cancel the message.

Msnews, (this server), does not honor cancel message requests. AFAIK, very
few if any servers still do.

I don't believe that the news client you use, or any other tool will make a
difference. Either the server accepts your request, or it doesn't.
--

Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP [Mail]
Imperial Beach, CA

"WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415.RemoveThis@live.com> wrote in message
news:%23yY2rCgJKHA.4432@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Can I send an NNTP "cancel" control message using OE?
>
> If not OE, is there some other tool on a standard Win XP (SP3) system that
> I can use?
>
> A Google search turned up tech ref pages for the IIS Manager, which speak
> of sending the "cancel" message. I don't know if I have the IIS Manager;
> if I do, obviously I don't know how to run it.
>
> Alternatively, is there a program on a standard Win XP (SP3) system that
> is similar in function to sendmail, the typical SMTP program on most Unix
> systems?
>
> I know that I can use (Unix) sendmail to create and transmit an NNTP
> "cancel" message to a specified server.
>
> Of course, I don't know if the "cancel" message would be effective on that
> server; and there are NG servers that I cannot even access using NNTP.
>
> But I'd like to give it a try.

WhatsUp31415 · External Since: Aug 25, 2009 Posts: 2

"Bruce Hagen" <Nospam DeleteThis @mymail.invalid> wrote:
> The Cancel Message option in OE works

Aha, RTFM! I shoulda tried Help first. Thanks.

> Msnews, (this server), does not honor cancel message requests.

Thanks. Saves me the trouble of trying.

Any idea how a message I posted and saw on the server (msnews.microsoft.com)
subsequently was removed? ("Subsequently" = within a few hours, not >90
days.)

I don't remember what happened exactly. The message title was
lined-through, and when I hovered the cursor over it, I think, that's when I
saw a message to the effect "removed from server". Some time later, perhaps
when I exited and subsequently revisited the NG, the message title was
removed. I presume the message was removed from my cache.

> AFAIK, very few if any servers still do.

Right. At a company I worked for, our internal news servers initially
accepted "cancel" messages, but only for local newsgroups. At least, that
was the intent. We disabled the feature altogether when we learned how easy
it was for outsiders to cancel messages due to some individuals' poor
crossposting behavior.

> I don't believe that the news client you use, or any other tool will make
> a difference. Either the server accepts your request, or it doesn't.

Right. The only verification specified by RFC 1036 is to ensure that the
sender of the "cancel" message is the same as the sender of message being
canceled. But that is easy to spoof.

----- original message -----

"Bruce Hagen" <Nospam DeleteThis @mymail.invalid> wrote in message
news:%23Qa4BJgJKHA.4652@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> The Cancel Message option in OE works, but only if the server you are
> sending it to obliges and actually does cancel the message.
>
> Msnews, (this server), does not honor cancel message requests. AFAIK, very
> few if any servers still do.
>
> I don't believe that the news client you use, or any other tool will make
> a difference. Either the server accepts your request, or it doesn't.
> --
>
> Bruce Hagen
> MS-MVP [Mail]
> Imperial Beach, CA
>
>
> "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415 DeleteThis @live.com> wrote in message
> news:%23yY2rCgJKHA.4432@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> Can I send an NNTP "cancel" control message using OE?
>>
>> If not OE, is there some other tool on a standard Win XP (SP3) system
>> that I can use?
>>
>> A Google search turned up tech ref pages for the IIS Manager, which speak
>> of sending the "cancel" message. I don't know if I have the IIS Manager;
>> if I do, obviously I don't know how to run it.
>>
>> Alternatively, is there a program on a standard Win XP (SP3) system that
>> is similar in function to sendmail, the typical SMTP program on most Unix
>> systems?
>>
>> I know that I can use (Unix) sendmail to create and transmit an NNTP
>> "cancel" message to a specified server.
>>
>> Of course, I don't know if the "cancel" message would be effective on
>> that server; and there are NG servers that I cannot even access using
>> NNTP.
>>
>> But I'd like to give it a try.
>

Bruce Hagen · External Since: Apr 17, 2004 Posts: 12678

Once in awhile, you will see a post removed as you describe. I honestly
don't know how it works, but some posts are removed almost instantly. I
imagine there is something that picks up on certain words and removes it for
content reasons. (Thinks it's porn?). I has happened to me and a second
identical post goes through OK. Go figure.
--

Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP [Mail]
Imperial Beach, CA

"WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415.RemoveThis@live.com> wrote in message
news:e0hPS5hJKHA.4608@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam.RemoveThis@mymail.invalid> wrote:
>> The Cancel Message option in OE works
>
> Aha, RTFM! I shoulda tried Help first. Thanks.
>
>
>> Msnews, (this server), does not honor cancel message requests.
>
> Thanks. Saves me the trouble of trying.
>
> Any idea how a message I posted and saw on the server
> (msnews.microsoft.com)
> subsequently was removed? ("Subsequently" = within a few hours, not >90
> days.)
>
> I don't remember what happened exactly. The message title was
> lined-through, and when I hovered the cursor over it, I think, that's when
> I saw a message to the effect "removed from server". Some time later,
> perhaps when I exited and subsequently revisited the NG, the message title
> was removed. I presume the message was removed from my cache.
>
>
>> AFAIK, very few if any servers still do.
>
> Right. At a company I worked for, our internal news servers initially
> accepted "cancel" messages, but only for local newsgroups. At least, that
> was the intent. We disabled the feature altogether when we learned how
> easy it was for outsiders to cancel messages due to some individuals' poor
> crossposting behavior.
>
>
>> I don't believe that the news client you use, or any other tool will make
>> a difference. Either the server accepts your request, or it doesn't.
>
> Right. The only verification specified by RFC 1036 is to ensure that the
> sender of the "cancel" message is the same as the sender of message being
> canceled. But that is easy to spoof.
>
>
> ----- original message -----
>
> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam.RemoveThis@mymail.invalid> wrote in message
> news:%23Qa4BJgJKHA.4652@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> The Cancel Message option in OE works, but only if the server you are
>> sending it to obliges and actually does cancel the message.
>>
>> Msnews, (this server), does not honor cancel message requests. AFAIK,
>> very
>> few if any servers still do.
>>
>> I don't believe that the news client you use, or any other tool will make
>> a difference. Either the server accepts your request, or it doesn't.
>> --
>>
>> Bruce Hagen
>> MS-MVP [Mail]
>> Imperial Beach, CA
>>
>>
>> "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415.RemoveThis@live.com> wrote in message
>> news:%23yY2rCgJKHA.4432@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>> Can I send an NNTP "cancel" control message using OE?
>>>
>>> If not OE, is there some other tool on a standard Win XP (SP3) system
>>> that I can use?
>>>
>>> A Google search turned up tech ref pages for the IIS Manager, which
>>> speak
>>> of sending the "cancel" message. I don't know if I have the IIS
>>> Manager;
>>> if I do, obviously I don't know how to run it.
>>>
>>> Alternatively, is there a program on a standard Win XP (SP3) system that
>>> is similar in function to sendmail, the typical SMTP program on most
>>> Unix
>>> systems?
>>>
>>> I know that I can use (Unix) sendmail to create and transmit an NNTP
>>> "cancel" message to a specified server.
>>>
>>> Of course, I don't know if the "cancel" message would be effective on
>>> that server; and there are NG servers that I cannot even access using
>>> NNTP.
>>>
>>> But I'd like to give it a try.
>>
>

Michael Santovec1 · External Since: Sep 07, 2004 Posts: 3599

When you came back did you get a notice that the message had been
canceled or was it just that you couldn't find it again?

Messages can be canceled by the news server administrator or server side
filters. Microsoft doesn't cancel many messages unless they are obvious
spam, contain a virus, or similar. On occasion a legitimate message is
caught by a filter.

The Microsoft news server is actually a bank of news servers. They
occasionally get out-of-synch. When that happens, when you next connect
to a news server it might be a different one than you posted to and if
the message didn't make it there, it will seem to disappear.

Also, issues in your news client could cause a message to disappear.
This includes your view options and blocked senders list.

--

Mike - http://TechHelp.Santovec.us

"WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415.TakeThisOut@live.com> wrote in message
news:e0hPS5hJKHA.4608@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam.TakeThisOut@mymail.invalid> wrote:
>> The Cancel Message option in OE works
>
> Aha, RTFM! I shoulda tried Help first. Thanks.
>
>
>> Msnews, (this server), does not honor cancel message requests.
>
> Thanks. Saves me the trouble of trying.
>
> Any idea how a message I posted and saw on the server
> (msnews.microsoft.com)
> subsequently was removed? ("Subsequently" = within a few hours, not
> >90 days.)
>
> I don't remember what happened exactly. The message title was
> lined-through, and when I hovered the cursor over it, I think, that's
> when I saw a message to the effect "removed from server". Some time
> later, perhaps when I exited and subsequently revisited the NG, the
> message title was removed. I presume the message was removed from my
> cache.
>
>
>> AFAIK, very few if any servers still do.
>
> Right. At a company I worked for, our internal news servers initially
> accepted "cancel" messages, but only for local newsgroups. At least,
> that was the intent. We disabled the feature altogether when we
> learned how easy it was for outsiders to cancel messages due to some
> individuals' poor crossposting behavior.
>
>
>> I don't believe that the news client you use, or any other tool will
>> make
>> a difference. Either the server accepts your request, or it doesn't.
>
> Right. The only verification specified by RFC 1036 is to ensure that
> the sender of the "cancel" message is the same as the sender of
> message being canceled. But that is easy to spoof.
>
>
> ----- original message -----
>
> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam.TakeThisOut@mymail.invalid> wrote in message
> news:%23Qa4BJgJKHA.4652@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> The Cancel Message option in OE works, but only if the server you are
>> sending it to obliges and actually does cancel the message.
>>
>> Msnews, (this server), does not honor cancel message requests. AFAIK,
>> very
>> few if any servers still do.
>>
>> I don't believe that the news client you use, or any other tool will
>> make
>> a difference. Either the server accepts your request, or it doesn't.
>> --
>>
>> Bruce Hagen
>> MS-MVP [Mail]
>> Imperial Beach, CA
>>
>>
>> "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415.TakeThisOut@live.com> wrote in message
>> news:%23yY2rCgJKHA.4432@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>> Can I send an NNTP "cancel" control message using OE?
>>>
>>> If not OE, is there some other tool on a standard Win XP (SP3)
>>> system
>>> that I can use?
>>>
>>> A Google search turned up tech ref pages for the IIS Manager, which
>>> speak
>>> of sending the "cancel" message. I don't know if I have the IIS
>>> Manager;
>>> if I do, obviously I don't know how to run it.
>>>
>>> Alternatively, is there a program on a standard Win XP (SP3) system
>>> that
>>> is similar in function to sendmail, the typical SMTP program on most
>>> Unix
>>> systems?
>>>
>>> I know that I can use (Unix) sendmail to create and transmit an NNTP
>>> "cancel" message to a specified server.
>>>
>>> Of course, I don't know if the "cancel" message would be effective
>>> on
>>> that server; and there are NG servers that I cannot even access
>>> using
>>> NNTP.
>>>
>>> But I'd like to give it a try.
>>
>

Mr Smith · External Since: Aug 27, 2009 Posts: 7

"Michael Santovec" <michael_santovec.TakeThisOut@prodigy.net> wrote:
> When you came back did you get a notice that the message
> had been canceled or was it just that you couldn't find
> it again?

One time, I saw a "removed from server" message; other times, the message
just disappeared.

I have tried unsubscribing and resubscribing. I am pretty sure the messages
are simply gone from the server. I cannot tell for sure without looking at
a network trace of the download. But I have deselected "group by
conversation", and the messages are nowhere to be found within the time
period that I know they were posted, all in the last couple days.

> Microsoft doesn't cancel many messages unless they
> are obvious spam, contain a virus, or similar. On
> occasion a legitimate message is caught by a filter.

That is my current theory. I suspect the sender id got added to a list of
spammers, presumably inadvertently.

I am assuming that the MSNews server removes suspected spam some time later,
rather than block it upon arrival. Is that a valid assumption?

That would explain why I see the articles in Google Groups, but not on the
MSNews server anymore.

Anyway, I am now posting under a different sender identity.

> The Microsoft news server is actually a bank of news servers.
> They occasionally get out-of-synch. When that happens, when
> you next connect to a news server it might be a different one
> than you posted to and if the message didn't make it there,
> it will seem to disappear.

That's an interesting and viable theory.

> Also, issues in your news client could cause a message to
> disappear. This includes your view options and blocked
> senders list.

I considered that, too. I have checked my view options and blocked sender
list. They seem copacetic. If you can suggest anything in particular that
I should look for, I'd be happy to double-check.

I should reiterate that these messages did appear on the MSNews server
initially. They were removed (or otherwise disappeared) later, often within
an hour, one time after a couple days. I don't believe I made any changes
to my OE configuration in the interim.

Thanks for your thoughtful ideas.

----- original message -----

"Michael Santovec" <michael_santovec.TakeThisOut@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:ukumv6rJKHA.1724@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> When you came back did you get a notice that the message had been canceled
> or was it just that you couldn't find it again?
>
> Messages can be canceled by the news server administrator or server side
> filters. Microsoft doesn't cancel many messages unless they are obvious
> spam, contain a virus, or similar. On occasion a legitimate message is
> caught by a filter.
>
> The Microsoft news server is actually a bank of news servers. They
> occasionally get out-of-synch. When that happens, when you next connect
> to a news server it might be a different one than you posted to and if the
> message didn't make it there, it will seem to disappear.
>
> Also, issues in your news client could cause a message to disappear. This
> includes your view options and blocked senders list.
>
> --
>
> Mike - http://TechHelp.Santovec.us
>
>
>
> "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415.TakeThisOut@live.com> wrote in message
> news:e0hPS5hJKHA.4608@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam.TakeThisOut@mymail.invalid> wrote:
>>> The Cancel Message option in OE works
>>
>> Aha, RTFM! I shoulda tried Help first. Thanks.
>>
>>
>>> Msnews, (this server), does not honor cancel message requests.
>>
>> Thanks. Saves me the trouble of trying.
>>
>> Any idea how a message I posted and saw on the server
>> (msnews.microsoft.com)
>> subsequently was removed? ("Subsequently" = within a few hours, not >90
>> days.)
>>
>> I don't remember what happened exactly. The message title was
>> lined-through, and when I hovered the cursor over it, I think, that's
>> when I saw a message to the effect "removed from server". Some time
>> later, perhaps when I exited and subsequently revisited the NG, the
>> message title was removed. I presume the message was removed from my
>> cache.
>>
>>
>>> AFAIK, very few if any servers still do.
>>
>> Right. At a company I worked for, our internal news servers initially
>> accepted "cancel" messages, but only for local newsgroups. At least,
>> that was the intent. We disabled the feature altogether when we learned
>> how easy it was for outsiders to cancel messages due to some individuals'
>> poor crossposting behavior.
>>
>>
>>> I don't believe that the news client you use, or any other tool will
>>> make
>>> a difference. Either the server accepts your request, or it doesn't.
>>
>> Right. The only verification specified by RFC 1036 is to ensure that the
>> sender of the "cancel" message is the same as the sender of message being
>> canceled. But that is easy to spoof.
>>
>>
>> ----- original message -----
>>
>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam.TakeThisOut@mymail.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:%23Qa4BJgJKHA.4652@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>> The Cancel Message option in OE works, but only if the server you are
>>> sending it to obliges and actually does cancel the message.
>>>
>>> Msnews, (this server), does not honor cancel message requests. AFAIK,
>>> very
>>> few if any servers still do.
>>>
>>> I don't believe that the news client you use, or any other tool will
>>> make
>>> a difference. Either the server accepts your request, or it doesn't.
>>> --
>>>
>>> Bruce Hagen
>>> MS-MVP [Mail]
>>> Imperial Beach, CA
>>>
>>>
>>> "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415.TakeThisOut@live.com> wrote in message
>>> news:%23yY2rCgJKHA.4432@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>> Can I send an NNTP "cancel" control message using OE?
>>>>
>>>> If not OE, is there some other tool on a standard Win XP (SP3) system
>>>> that I can use?
>>>>
>>>> A Google search turned up tech ref pages for the IIS Manager, which
>>>> speak
>>>> of sending the "cancel" message. I don't know if I have the IIS
>>>> Manager;
>>>> if I do, obviously I don't know how to run it.
>>>>
>>>> Alternatively, is there a program on a standard Win XP (SP3) system
>>>> that
>>>> is similar in function to sendmail, the typical SMTP program on most
>>>> Unix
>>>> systems?
>>>>
>>>> I know that I can use (Unix) sendmail to create and transmit an NNTP
>>>> "cancel" message to a specified server.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, I don't know if the "cancel" message would be effective on
>>>> that server; and there are NG servers that I cannot even access using
>>>> NNTP.
>>>>
>>>> But I'd like to give it a try.
>>>
>>
>

Michael Santovec1 · External Since: Sep 07, 2004 Posts: 3599

Doing a unsubscribe and subscribe again in OE won't generally clear up
any issues with the news message store. You need to RESET the
newsgroup, which will mark it in OE as if it is visiting the newsgroup
for the first time.

You have to be a very blatant spammer before Microsoft will block a
sender id. If an occasional message is blocked, that would most likely
be because the message contains one or more spammer keywords. Microsoft
does not publish this list.

--

Mike - http://TechHelp.Santovec.us

"Mr Smith" <mrsmith.TakeThisOut@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:uINRFuvJKHA.4376@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> "Michael Santovec" <michael_santovec.TakeThisOut@prodigy.net> wrote:
>> When you came back did you get a notice that the message
>> had been canceled or was it just that you couldn't find
>> it again?
>
> One time, I saw a "removed from server" message; other times, the
> message just disappeared.
>
> I have tried unsubscribing and resubscribing. I am pretty sure the
> messages are simply gone from the server. I cannot tell for sure
> without looking at a network trace of the download. But I have
> deselected "group by conversation", and the messages are nowhere to be
> found within the time period that I know they were posted, all in the
> last couple days.
>
>
>> Microsoft doesn't cancel many messages unless they
>> are obvious spam, contain a virus, or similar. On
>> occasion a legitimate message is caught by a filter.
>
> That is my current theory. I suspect the sender id got added to a
> list of spammers, presumably inadvertently.
>
> I am assuming that the MSNews server removes suspected spam some time
> later, rather than block it upon arrival. Is that a valid assumption?
>
> That would explain why I see the articles in Google Groups, but not on
> the MSNews server anymore.
>
> Anyway, I am now posting under a different sender identity.
>
>
>> The Microsoft news server is actually a bank of news servers.
>> They occasionally get out-of-synch. When that happens, when
>> you next connect to a news server it might be a different one
>> than you posted to and if the message didn't make it there,
>> it will seem to disappear.
>
> That's an interesting and viable theory.
>
>
>> Also, issues in your news client could cause a message to
>> disappear. This includes your view options and blocked
>> senders list.
>
> I considered that, too. I have checked my view options and blocked
> sender list. They seem copacetic. If you can suggest anything in
> particular that I should look for, I'd be happy to double-check.
>
> I should reiterate that these messages did appear on the MSNews server
> initially. They were removed (or otherwise disappeared) later, often
> within an hour, one time after a couple days. I don't believe I made
> any changes to my OE configuration in the interim.
>
> Thanks for your thoughtful ideas.
>
>
> ----- original message -----
>
> "Michael Santovec" <michael_santovec.TakeThisOut@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> news:ukumv6rJKHA.1724@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> When you came back did you get a notice that the message had been
>> canceled or was it just that you couldn't find it again?
>>
>> Messages can be canceled by the news server administrator or server
>> side filters. Microsoft doesn't cancel many messages unless they are
>> obvious spam, contain a virus, or similar. On occasion a legitimate
>> message is caught by a filter.
>>
>> The Microsoft news server is actually a bank of news servers. They
>> occasionally get out-of-synch. When that happens, when you next
>> connect to a news server it might be a different one than you posted
>> to and if the message didn't make it there, it will seem to
>> disappear.
>>
>> Also, issues in your news client could cause a message to disappear.
>> This includes your view options and blocked senders list.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Mike - http://TechHelp.Santovec.us
>>
>>
>>
>> "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415.TakeThisOut@live.com> wrote in message
>> news:e0hPS5hJKHA.4608@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam.TakeThisOut@mymail.invalid> wrote:
>>>> The Cancel Message option in OE works
>>>
>>> Aha, RTFM! I shoulda tried Help first. Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Msnews, (this server), does not honor cancel message requests.
>>>
>>> Thanks. Saves me the trouble of trying.
>>>
>>> Any idea how a message I posted and saw on the server
>>> (msnews.microsoft.com)
>>> subsequently was removed? ("Subsequently" = within a few hours, not
>>> >90 days.)
>>>
>>> I don't remember what happened exactly. The message title was
>>> lined-through, and when I hovered the cursor over it, I think,
>>> that's when I saw a message to the effect "removed from server".
>>> Some time later, perhaps when I exited and subsequently revisited
>>> the NG, the message title was removed. I presume the message was
>>> removed from my cache.
>>>
>>>
>>>> AFAIK, very few if any servers still do.
>>>
>>> Right. At a company I worked for, our internal news servers
>>> initially accepted "cancel" messages, but only for local newsgroups.
>>> At least, that was the intent. We disabled the feature altogether
>>> when we learned how easy it was for outsiders to cancel messages due
>>> to some individuals' poor crossposting behavior.
>>>
>>>
>>>> I don't believe that the news client you use, or any other tool
>>>> will make
>>>> a difference. Either the server accepts your request, or it
>>>> doesn't.
>>>
>>> Right. The only verification specified by RFC 1036 is to ensure
>>> that the sender of the "cancel" message is the same as the sender of
>>> message being canceled. But that is easy to spoof.
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- original message -----
>>>
>>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam.TakeThisOut@mymail.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:%23Qa4BJgJKHA.4652@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>> The Cancel Message option in OE works, but only if the server you
>>>> are
>>>> sending it to obliges and actually does cancel the message.
>>>>
>>>> Msnews, (this server), does not honor cancel message requests.
>>>> AFAIK, very
>>>> few if any servers still do.
>>>>
>>>> I don't believe that the news client you use, or any other tool
>>>> will make
>>>> a difference. Either the server accepts your request, or it
>>>> doesn't.
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Bruce Hagen
>>>> MS-MVP [Mail]
>>>> Imperial Beach, CA
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415.TakeThisOut@live.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:%23yY2rCgJKHA.4432@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>>> Can I send an NNTP "cancel" control message using OE?
>>>>>
>>>>> If not OE, is there some other tool on a standard Win XP (SP3)
>>>>> system
>>>>> that I can use?
>>>>>
>>>>> A Google search turned up tech ref pages for the IIS Manager,
>>>>> which speak
>>>>> of sending the "cancel" message. I don't know if I have the IIS
>>>>> Manager;
>>>>> if I do, obviously I don't know how to run it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alternatively, is there a program on a standard Win XP (SP3)
>>>>> system that
>>>>> is similar in function to sendmail, the typical SMTP program on
>>>>> most Unix
>>>>> systems?
>>>>>
>>>>> I know that I can use (Unix) sendmail to create and transmit an
>>>>> NNTP
>>>>> "cancel" message to a specified server.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course, I don't know if the "cancel" message would be effective
>>>>> on
>>>>> that server; and there are NG servers that I cannot even access
>>>>> using
>>>>> NNTP.
>>>>>
>>>>> But I'd like to give it a try.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

Mr Smith · External Since: Aug 27, 2009 Posts: 7

"Michael Santovec" <michael_santovec.DeleteThis@prodigy.net> wrote:
> Doing a unsubscribe and subscribe again in OE won't
> generally clear up any issues with the news message store.

Thanks. I wondered about that myself.

> You need to RESET the newsgroup, which will mark it in OE
> as if it is visiting the newsgroup for the first time.

How do I reset just one newsgroup?

When I select a newsgroup, then do Tools > Options > Maintenance > Clean Up
Now > Reset, it resets all newsgroups.

Anyway, I did that to no avail. No big surprise.

> You have to be a very blatant spammer before Microsoft will
> block a sender id.

At least, that's how it is __supposed__ to work. But it is, after all, just
a list. Sh*t happens!

> If an occasional message is blocked, that would most likely
> be because the message contains one or more spammer keywords.
> Microsoft does not publish this list.

I seriously doubt that I inadvertently used any words or phrases that might
triggered a spam filter. You can see for yourself by looking at the
messages in Google Groups. (See below.)

And if it was just an "occassional" canceled message, it wouldn't pique my
curiosity. Well, maybe it would; I'm a very curious sort, obviously Wink

.
But it certainly wouldn't pique my concern.

But this happened to a cluster of recent postings. Most of the canceled
messages appear on the Google Groups server. Two canceled or blocked
messages are in my Sent Items folder, but they do even appear in Google
Groups. I wonder if that's because they refer to a canceled message in the
References header.

Messages in Google Groups, but no longer on the MSNews server, all in this
NG:

From: "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415.DeleteThis@live.com>
Subject: Re: Can I disable this: OE scrolls down NG list auto'ly
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:03:36 -0700
Message-ID: <uwzNGkTJKHA.356.DeleteThis@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>

From: "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415.DeleteThis@live.com>
Subject: Re: Can I disable this: OE scrolls down NG list auto'ly
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:16:18 -0700
Message-ID: <#UGpMrTJKHA.4608@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>

From: "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415.DeleteThis@live.com>
Subject: Re: Can I disable this: OE scrolls down NG list auto'ly
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:38:05 -0700
Message-ID: <ObUja6UJKHA.356.DeleteThis@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>

From: "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415.DeleteThis@live.com>
Subject: Re: How to send NNTP "cancel" message?
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:17:42 -0700
Message-ID: <eJLniHoJKHA.6016.DeleteThis@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>

Messages in my Sent Items folder, but not on the Google Groups or MSNews
server:

From: "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415.DeleteThis@live.com>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress
References: <e7lS53SJKHA.4376.DeleteThis@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl>
<#NajP$SJKHA.4608@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>
<uwzNGkTJKHA.356.DeleteThis@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>
Subject: Re: Can I disable this: OE scrolls down NG list auto'ly
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:19:20 -0700

From: "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415.DeleteThis@live.com>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress
References: <e7lS53SJKHA.4376.DeleteThis@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl>
<#NajP$SJKHA.4608@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>
<uwzNGkTJKHA.356.DeleteThis@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>
<OuZZaOUJKHA.356.DeleteThis@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>
Subject: Re: Can I disable this: OE scrolls down NG list auto'ly
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:31:09 -0700

Thanks for your continued interest. I have yet to try posting with that
sender id again and in those threads. I plan to do that; just haven't
gotten around to it.

----- original message -----

"Michael Santovec" <michael_santovec.DeleteThis@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:eYrtXJ0JKHA.6016@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Doing a unsubscribe and subscribe again in OE won't generally clear up any
> issues with the news message store. You need to RESET the newsgroup,
> which will mark it in OE as if it is visiting the newsgroup for the first
> time.
>
> You have to be a very blatant spammer before Microsoft will block a sender
> id. If an occasional message is blocked, that would most likely be
> because the message contains one or more spammer keywords. Microsoft does
> not publish this list.
>
> --
>
> Mike - http://TechHelp.Santovec.us
>
>
>
> "Mr Smith" <mrsmith.DeleteThis@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:uINRFuvJKHA.4376@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> "Michael Santovec" <michael_santovec.DeleteThis@prodigy.net> wrote:
>>> When you came back did you get a notice that the message
>>> had been canceled or was it just that you couldn't find
>>> it again?
>>
>> One time, I saw a "removed from server" message; other times, the message
>> just disappeared.
>>
>> I have tried unsubscribing and resubscribing. I am pretty sure the
>> messages are simply gone from the server. I cannot tell for sure without
>> looking at a network trace of the download. But I have deselected "group
>> by conversation", and the messages are nowhere to be found within the
>> time period that I know they were posted, all in the last couple days.
>>
>>
>>> Microsoft doesn't cancel many messages unless they
>>> are obvious spam, contain a virus, or similar. On
>>> occasion a legitimate message is caught by a filter.
>>
>> That is my current theory. I suspect the sender id got added to a list
>> of spammers, presumably inadvertently.
>>
>> I am assuming that the MSNews server removes suspected spam some time
>> later, rather than block it upon arrival. Is that a valid assumption?
>>
>> That would explain why I see the articles in Google Groups, but not on
>> the MSNews server anymore.
>>
>> Anyway, I am now posting under a different sender identity.
>>
>>
>>> The Microsoft news server is actually a bank of news servers.
>>> They occasionally get out-of-synch. When that happens, when
>>> you next connect to a news server it might be a different one
>>> than you posted to and if the message didn't make it there,
>>> it will seem to disappear.
>>
>> That's an interesting and viable theory.
>>
>>
>>> Also, issues in your news client could cause a message to
>>> disappear. This includes your view options and blocked
>>> senders list.
>>
>> I considered that, too. I have checked my view options and blocked
>> sender list. They seem copacetic. If you can suggest anything in
>> particular that I should look for, I'd be happy to double-check.
>>
>> I should reiterate that these messages did appear on the MSNews server
>> initially. They were removed (or otherwise disappeared) later, often
>> within an hour, one time after a couple days. I don't believe I made any
>> changes to my OE configuration in the interim.
>>
>> Thanks for your thoughtful ideas.
>>
>>
>> ----- original message -----
>>
>> "Michael Santovec" <michael_santovec.DeleteThis@prodigy.net> wrote in message
>> news:ukumv6rJKHA.1724@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>> When you came back did you get a notice that the message had been
>>> canceled or was it just that you couldn't find it again?
>>>
>>> Messages can be canceled by the news server administrator or server side
>>> filters. Microsoft doesn't cancel many messages unless they are obvious
>>> spam, contain a virus, or similar. On occasion a legitimate message is
>>> caught by a filter.
>>>
>>> The Microsoft news server is actually a bank of news servers. They
>>> occasionally get out-of-synch. When that happens, when you next connect
>>> to a news server it might be a different one than you posted to and if
>>> the message didn't make it there, it will seem to disappear.
>>>
>>> Also, issues in your news client could cause a message to disappear.
>>> This includes your view options and blocked senders list.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Mike - http://TechHelp.Santovec.us
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415.DeleteThis@live.com> wrote in message
>>> news:e0hPS5hJKHA.4608@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam.DeleteThis@mymail.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> The Cancel Message option in OE works
>>>>
>>>> Aha, RTFM! I shoulda tried Help first. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Msnews, (this server), does not honor cancel message requests.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks. Saves me the trouble of trying.
>>>>
>>>> Any idea how a message I posted and saw on the server
>>>> (msnews.microsoft.com)
>>>> subsequently was removed? ("Subsequently" = within a few hours, not
>>>> >90 days.)
>>>>
>>>> I don't remember what happened exactly. The message title was
>>>> lined-through, and when I hovered the cursor over it, I think, that's
>>>> when I saw a message to the effect "removed from server". Some time
>>>> later, perhaps when I exited and subsequently revisited the NG, the
>>>> message title was removed. I presume the message was removed from my
>>>> cache.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> AFAIK, very few if any servers still do.
>>>>
>>>> Right. At a company I worked for, our internal news servers initially
>>>> accepted "cancel" messages, but only for local newsgroups. At least,
>>>> that was the intent. We disabled the feature altogether when we
>>>> learned how easy it was for outsiders to cancel messages due to some
>>>> individuals' poor crossposting behavior.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I don't believe that the news client you use, or any other tool will
>>>>> make
>>>>> a difference. Either the server accepts your request, or it doesn't.
>>>>
>>>> Right. The only verification specified by RFC 1036 is to ensure that
>>>> the sender of the "cancel" message is the same as the sender of message
>>>> being canceled. But that is easy to spoof.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- original message -----
>>>>
>>>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam.DeleteThis@mymail.invalid> wrote in message
>>>> news:%23Qa4BJgJKHA.4652@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>>> The Cancel Message option in OE works, but only if the server you are
>>>>> sending it to obliges and actually does cancel the message.
>>>>>
>>>>> Msnews, (this server), does not honor cancel message requests. AFAIK,
>>>>> very
>>>>> few if any servers still do.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't believe that the news client you use, or any other tool will
>>>>> make
>>>>> a difference. Either the server accepts your request, or it doesn't.
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Bruce Hagen
>>>>> MS-MVP [Mail]
>>>>> Imperial Beach, CA
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415.DeleteThis@live.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:%23yY2rCgJKHA.4432@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> Can I send an NNTP "cancel" control message using OE?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If not OE, is there some other tool on a standard Win XP (SP3) system
>>>>>> that I can use?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A Google search turned up tech ref pages for the IIS Manager, which
>>>>>> speak
>>>>>> of sending the "cancel" message. I don't know if I have the IIS
>>>>>> Manager;
>>>>>> if I do, obviously I don't know how to run it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alternatively, is there a program on a standard Win XP (SP3) system
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> is similar in function to sendmail, the typical SMTP program on most
>>>>>> Unix
>>>>>> systems?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know that I can use (Unix) sendmail to create and transmit an NNTP
>>>>>> "cancel" message to a specified server.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course, I don't know if the "cancel" message would be effective on
>>>>>> that server; and there are NG servers that I cannot even access using
>>>>>> NNTP.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But I'd like to give it a try.

Mr Smith · External Since: Aug 27, 2009 Posts: 7

I wrote:
> "Michael Santovec" <michael_santovec.TakeThisOut@prodigy.net> wrote:
> [....]
>> If an occasional message is blocked, that would most likely
>> be because the message contains one or more spammer keywords.
>> Microsoft does not publish this list.
>
> I seriously doubt that I inadvertently used any words or
> phrases that might triggered a spam filter.

On second thought, you might be on to something there.

The last three canceled messages in the "Can I disable" thread include
("quote") the first canceled message. So if the first message contains a
word or phrase that triggers a spam filter, so will the other three. I
cannot imagine what word or phrase that is, though.

The one canceled message in this thread ("How to send") contains the a
four-letter word fully spelled ("s**t happens"). I think it's a benign
usage. But I can imagine that it might trigger a spam filter.

I will test this further. Thanks again for all the good ideas.

----- original message -----

"Mr Smith" <mrsmith.TakeThisOut@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:OUTmuE1JKHA.4652@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> "Michael Santovec" <michael_santovec.TakeThisOut@prodigy.net> wrote:
>> Doing a unsubscribe and subscribe again in OE won't
>> generally clear up any issues with the news message store.
>
> Thanks. I wondered about that myself.
>
>
>> You need to RESET the newsgroup, which will mark it in OE
>> as if it is visiting the newsgroup for the first time.
>
> How do I reset just one newsgroup?
>
> When I select a newsgroup, then do Tools > Options > Maintenance > Clean
> Up Now > Reset, it resets all newsgroups.
>
> Anyway, I did that to no avail. No big surprise.
>
>
>> You have to be a very blatant spammer before Microsoft will
>> block a sender id.
>
> At least, that's how it is __supposed__ to work. But it is, after all,
> just a list. Sh*t happens!
>
>
>> If an occasional message is blocked, that would most likely
>> be because the message contains one or more spammer keywords.
>> Microsoft does not publish this list.
>
> I seriously doubt that I inadvertently used any words or phrases that
> might triggered a spam filter. You can see for yourself by looking at the
> messages in Google Groups. (See below.)
>
> And if it was just an "occassional" canceled message, it wouldn't pique my
> curiosity. Well, maybe it would; I'm a very curious sort, obviously Wink

.
> But it certainly wouldn't pique my concern.
>
> But this happened to a cluster of recent postings. Most of the canceled
> messages appear on the Google Groups server. Two canceled or blocked
> messages are in my Sent Items folder, but they do even appear in Google
> Groups. I wonder if that's because they refer to a canceled message in
> the References header.
>
> Messages in Google Groups, but no longer on the MSNews server, all in this
> NG:
>
>
> From: "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415.TakeThisOut@live.com>
> Subject: Re: Can I disable this: OE scrolls down NG list auto'ly
> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:03:36 -0700
> Message-ID: <uwzNGkTJKHA.356.TakeThisOut@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>
>
>
> From: "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415.TakeThisOut@live.com>
> Subject: Re: Can I disable this: OE scrolls down NG list auto'ly
> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:16:18 -0700
> Message-ID: <#UGpMrTJKHA.4608@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>
>
>
> From: "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415.TakeThisOut@live.com>
> Subject: Re: Can I disable this: OE scrolls down NG list auto'ly
> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:38:05 -0700
> Message-ID: <ObUja6UJKHA.356.TakeThisOut@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>
>
>
> From: "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415.TakeThisOut@live.com>
> Subject: Re: How to send NNTP "cancel" message?
> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:17:42 -0700
> Message-ID: <eJLniHoJKHA.6016.TakeThisOut@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>
>
>
> Messages in my Sent Items folder, but not on the Google Groups or MSNews
> server:
>
>
> From: "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415.TakeThisOut@live.com>
> Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress
> References: <e7lS53SJKHA.4376.TakeThisOut@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl>
> <#NajP$SJKHA.4608@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>
> <uwzNGkTJKHA.356.TakeThisOut@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>
> Subject: Re: Can I disable this: OE scrolls down NG list auto'ly
> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:19:20 -0700
>
>
> From: "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415.TakeThisOut@live.com>
> Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress
> References: <e7lS53SJKHA.4376.TakeThisOut@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl>
> <#NajP$SJKHA.4608@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>
> <uwzNGkTJKHA.356.TakeThisOut@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>
> <OuZZaOUJKHA.356.TakeThisOut@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>
> Subject: Re: Can I disable this: OE scrolls down NG list auto'ly
> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:31:09 -0700
>
>
> Thanks for your continued interest. I have yet to try posting with that
> sender id again and in those threads. I plan to do that; just haven't
> gotten around to it.
>
>
> ----- original message -----
>
> "Michael Santovec" <michael_santovec.TakeThisOut@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> news:eYrtXJ0JKHA.6016@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> Doing a unsubscribe and subscribe again in OE won't generally clear up
>> any
>> issues with the news message store. You need to RESET the newsgroup,
>> which will mark it in OE as if it is visiting the newsgroup for the first
>> time.
>>
>> You have to be a very blatant spammer before Microsoft will block a
>> sender
>> id. If an occasional message is blocked, that would most likely be
>> because the message contains one or more spammer keywords. Microsoft
>> does
>> not publish this list.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Mike - http://TechHelp.Santovec.us
>>
>>
>>
>> "Mr Smith" <mrsmith.TakeThisOut@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>> news:uINRFuvJKHA.4376@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>> "Michael Santovec" <michael_santovec.TakeThisOut@prodigy.net> wrote:
>>>> When you came back did you get a notice that the message
>>>> had been canceled or was it just that you couldn't find
>>>> it again?
>>>
>>> One time, I saw a "removed from server" message; other times, the
>>> message
>>> just disappeared.
>>>
>>> I have tried unsubscribing and resubscribing. I am pretty sure the
>>> messages are simply gone from the server. I cannot tell for sure
>>> without
>>> looking at a network trace of the download. But I have deselected
>>> "group
>>> by conversation", and the messages are nowhere to be found within the
>>> time period that I know they were posted, all in the last couple days.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Microsoft doesn't cancel many messages unless they
>>>> are obvious spam, contain a virus, or similar. On
>>>> occasion a legitimate message is caught by a filter.
>>>
>>> That is my current theory. I suspect the sender id got added to a list
>>> of spammers, presumably inadvertently.
>>>
>>> I am assuming that the MSNews server removes suspected spam some time
>>> later, rather than block it upon arrival. Is that a valid assumption?
>>>
>>> That would explain why I see the articles in Google Groups, but not on
>>> the MSNews server anymore.
>>>
>>> Anyway, I am now posting under a different sender identity.
>>>
>>>
>>>> The Microsoft news server is actually a bank of news servers.
>>>> They occasionally get out-of-synch. When that happens, when
>>>> you next connect to a news server it might be a different one
>>>> than you posted to and if the message didn't make it there,
>>>> it will seem to disappear.
>>>
>>> That's an interesting and viable theory.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Also, issues in your news client could cause a message to
>>>> disappear. This includes your view options and blocked
>>>> senders list.
>>>
>>> I considered that, too. I have checked my view options and blocked
>>> sender list. They seem copacetic. If you can suggest anything in
>>> particular that I should look for, I'd be happy to double-check.
>>>
>>> I should reiterate that these messages did appear on the MSNews server
>>> initially. They were removed (or otherwise disappeared) later, often
>>> within an hour, one time after a couple days. I don't believe I made
>>> any
>>> changes to my OE configuration in the interim.
>>>
>>> Thanks for your thoughtful ideas.
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- original message -----
>>>
>>> "Michael Santovec" <michael_santovec.TakeThisOut@prodigy.net> wrote in message
>>> news:ukumv6rJKHA.1724@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>> When you came back did you get a notice that the message had been
>>>> canceled or was it just that you couldn't find it again?
>>>>
>>>> Messages can be canceled by the news server administrator or server
>>>> side
>>>> filters. Microsoft doesn't cancel many messages unless they are
>>>> obvious
>>>> spam, contain a virus, or similar. On occasion a legitimate message is
>>>> caught by a filter.
>>>>
>>>> The Microsoft news server is actually a bank of news servers. They
>>>> occasionally get out-of-synch. When that happens, when you next
>>>> connect
>>>> to a news server it might be a different one than you posted to and if
>>>> the message didn't make it there, it will seem to disappear.
>>>>
>>>> Also, issues in your news client could cause a message to disappear.
>>>> This includes your view options and blocked senders list.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Mike - http://TechHelp.Santovec.us
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415.TakeThisOut@live.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:e0hPS5hJKHA.4608@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam.TakeThisOut@mymail.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> The Cancel Message option in OE works
>>>>>
>>>>> Aha, RTFM! I shoulda tried Help first. Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Msnews, (this server), does not honor cancel message requests.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks. Saves me the trouble of trying.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any idea how a message I posted and saw on the server
>>>>> (msnews.microsoft.com)
>>>>> subsequently was removed? ("Subsequently" = within a few hours, not
>>>>> >90 days.)
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't remember what happened exactly. The message title was
>>>>> lined-through, and when I hovered the cursor over it, I think, that's
>>>>> when I saw a message to the effect "removed from server". Some time
>>>>> later, perhaps when I exited and subsequently revisited the NG, the
>>>>> message title was removed. I presume the message was removed from my
>>>>> cache.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> AFAIK, very few if any servers still do.
>>>>>
>>>>> Right. At a company I worked for, our internal news servers initially
>>>>> accepted "cancel" messages, but only for local newsgroups. At least,
>>>>> that was the intent. We disabled the feature altogether when we
>>>>> learned how easy it was for outsiders to cancel messages due to some
>>>>> individuals' poor crossposting behavior.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't believe that the news client you use, or any other tool will
>>>>>> make
>>>>>> a difference. Either the server accepts your request, or it doesn't.
>>>>>
>>>>> Right. The only verification specified by RFC 1036 is to ensure that
>>>>> the sender of the "cancel" message is the same as the sender of
>>>>> message
>>>>> being canceled. But that is easy to spoof.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- original message -----
>>>>>
>>>>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam.TakeThisOut@mymail.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>> news:%23Qa4BJgJKHA.4652@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> The Cancel Message option in OE works, but only if the server you are
>>>>>> sending it to obliges and actually does cancel the message.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Msnews, (this server), does not honor cancel message requests. AFAIK,
>>>>>> very
>>>>>> few if any servers still do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't believe that the news client you use, or any other tool will
>>>>>> make
>>>>>> a difference. Either the server accepts your request, or it doesn't.
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bruce Hagen
>>>>>> MS-MVP [Mail]
>>>>>> Imperial Beach, CA
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415.TakeThisOut@live.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:%23yY2rCgJKHA.4432@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>> Can I send an NNTP "cancel" control message using OE?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If not OE, is there some other tool on a standard Win XP (SP3)
>>>>>>> system
>>>>>>> that I can use?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A Google search turned up tech ref pages for the IIS Manager, which
>>>>>>> speak
>>>>>>> of sending the "cancel" message. I don't know if I have the IIS
>>>>>>> Manager;
>>>>>>> if I do, obviously I don't know how to run it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alternatively, is there a program on a standard Win XP (SP3) system
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> is similar in function to sendmail, the typical SMTP program on most
>>>>>>> Unix
>>>>>>> systems?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I know that I can use (Unix) sendmail to create and transmit an NNTP
>>>>>>> "cancel" message to a specified server.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of course, I don't know if the "cancel" message would be effective
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> that server; and there are NG servers that I cannot even access
>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>> NNTP.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But I'd like to give it a try.
>

Twayne · External Since: Jun 30, 2009 Posts: 13

I did some testing during a recent thread on cancelling messages here.
It seems they DO honor the Cancels, but ... it can take from now to
almost eternity before the cancel happens. The messages just disappear;
nothing left to indicate they were ever there.
And yes, I did reload the messages each time, plus once removed the
entire group and then brought it back; all the same results. IIRC
evertying I Canceled did cancel. Eventually.

Twayne`

"Michael Santovec" <michael_santovec DeleteThis @prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:ukumv6rJKHA.1724@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl
> When you came back did you get a notice that the message had been
> canceled or was it just that you couldn't find it again?
>
> Messages can be canceled by the news server administrator or server
> side filters. Microsoft doesn't cancel many messages unless they are
> obvious spam, contain a virus, or similar. On occasion a legitimate
> message is caught by a filter.
>
> The Microsoft news server is actually a bank of news servers. They
> occasionally get out-of-synch. When that happens, when you next
> connect to a news server it might be a different one than you posted
> to and if the message didn't make it there, it will seem to disappear.
>
> Also, issues in your news client could cause a message to disappear.
> This includes your view options and blocked senders list.
>
>
> "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415 DeleteThis @live.com> wrote in message
> news:e0hPS5hJKHA.4608@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam DeleteThis @mymail.invalid> wrote:
>>> The Cancel Message option in OE works
>>
>> Aha, RTFM! I shoulda tried Help first. Thanks.
>>
>>
>>> Msnews, (this server), does not honor cancel message requests.
>>
>> Thanks. Saves me the trouble of trying.
>>
>> Any idea how a message I posted and saw on the server
>> (msnews.microsoft.com)
>> subsequently was removed? ("Subsequently" = within a few hours, not
>> >90 days.)
>>
>> I don't remember what happened exactly. The message title was
>> lined-through, and when I hovered the cursor over it, I think, that's
>> when I saw a message to the effect "removed from server". Some time
>> later, perhaps when I exited and subsequently revisited the NG, the
>> message title was removed. I presume the message was removed from my
>> cache.
>>
>>
>>> AFAIK, very few if any servers still do.
>>
>> Right. At a company I worked for, our internal news servers
>> initially accepted "cancel" messages, but only for local newsgroups.
>> At least, that was the intent. We disabled the feature altogether
>> when we learned how easy it was for outsiders to cancel messages due
>> to some individuals' poor crossposting behavior.
>>
>>
>>> I don't believe that the news client you use, or any other tool will
>>> make
>>> a difference. Either the server accepts your request, or it doesn't.
>>
>> Right. The only verification specified by RFC 1036 is to ensure that
>> the sender of the "cancel" message is the same as the sender of
>> message being canceled. But that is easy to spoof.
>>
>>
>> ----- original message -----
>>
>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam DeleteThis @mymail.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:%23Qa4BJgJKHA.4652@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>> The Cancel Message option in OE works, but only if the server you
>>> are sending it to obliges and actually does cancel the message.
>>>
>>> Msnews, (this server), does not honor cancel message requests.
>>> AFAIK, very
>>> few if any servers still do.
>>>
>>> I don't believe that the news client you use, or any other tool will
>>> make
>>> a difference. Either the server accepts your request, or it doesn't.
>>> --
>>>
>>> Bruce Hagen
>>> MS-MVP [Mail]
>>> Imperial Beach, CA
>>>
>>>
>>> "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415 DeleteThis @live.com> wrote in message
>>> news:%23yY2rCgJKHA.4432@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>> Can I send an NNTP "cancel" control message using OE?
>>>>
>>>> If not OE, is there some other tool on a standard Win XP (SP3)
>>>> system
>>>> that I can use?
>>>>
>>>> A Google search turned up tech ref pages for the IIS Manager, which
>>>> speak
>>>> of sending the "cancel" message. I don't know if I have the IIS
>>>> Manager;
>>>> if I do, obviously I don't know how to run it.
>>>>
>>>> Alternatively, is there a program on a standard Win XP (SP3) system
>>>> that
>>>> is similar in function to sendmail, the typical SMTP program on
>>>> most Unix
>>>> systems?
>>>>
>>>> I know that I can use (Unix) sendmail to create and transmit an
>>>> NNTP "cancel" message to a specified server.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, I don't know if the "cancel" message would be effective
>>>> on
>>>> that server; and there are NG servers that I cannot even access
>>>> using
>>>> NNTP.
>>>>
>>>> But I'd like to give it a try.

Shenan Stanley · External Since: Aug 27, 2009 Posts: 1

From time to time I delete messages which are considered to be
abusive, or plain rude to other users. The only exception is messages
posted by MVPs who are authorised to bully Microsoft customers. xxxx
is strictly not allowed here so don't even try it!

What exactly is your problem?

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

On Aug 26, 4:52 am, "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31... RemoveThis @live.com> wrote:
> Can I send an NNTP "cancel" control message using OE?
>
> If not OE, is there some other tool on a standard Win XP (SP3) system that I
> can use?
>
> A Google search turned up tech ref pages for the IIS Manager, which speak of
> sending the "cancel" message. I don't know if I have the IIS Manager; if I
> do, obviously I don't know how to run it.
>
> Alternatively, is there a program on a standard Win XP (SP3) system that is
> similar in function to sendmail, the typical SMTP program on most Unix
> systems?
>
> I know that I can use (Unix) sendmail to create and transmit an NNTP
> "cancel" message to a specified server.
>
> Of course, I don't know if the "cancel" message would be effective on that
> server; and there are NG servers that I cannot even access using NNTP.
>
> But I'd like to give it a try.

Mr Smith · External Since: Aug 27, 2009 Posts: 7

"Shenan Stanley" <newshelpers.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
> From time to time I delete messages which are considered
> to be abusive, or plain rude to other users.

How do you accomplish that?

RFC 1036 says that the server should at least ensure that the "cancel"
message has the same sender id as the message being canceled. Are you
saying that you forge the sender id?

Easy to do in OE Sad

. That -- the easy of forging sender ids -- is why
honoring "cancel" messages is deprecated.

In any case, Bruce says the MSnews server does not honor "cancel" messages.
Are you saying he is wrong?

I guess I'll have to try it, after all. Twayne, too, did say that "cancel"
works. But Twayne also said that it might "almost eternity" for the
"cancel" to take effect Sad

.

----- original message -----

"Shenan Stanley" <newshelpers.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d9b96f18-a113-4ce8-a741-5c0cd01cdc89@u38g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
From time to time I delete messages which are considered to be
abusive, or plain rude to other users. The only exception is messages
posted by MVPs who are authorised to bully Microsoft customers. xxxx
is strictly not allowed here so don't even try it!

What exactly is your problem?

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

On Aug 26, 4:52 am, "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31....TakeThisOut@live.com> wrote:
> Can I send an NNTP "cancel" control message using OE?
>
> If not OE, is there some other tool on a standard Win XP (SP3) system that
> I
> can use?
>
> A Google search turned up tech ref pages for the IIS Manager, which speak
> of
> sending the "cancel" message. I don't know if I have the IIS Manager; if I
> do, obviously I don't know how to run it.
>
> Alternatively, is there a program on a standard Win XP (SP3) system that
> is
> similar in function to sendmail, the typical SMTP program on most Unix
> systems?
>
> I know that I can use (Unix) sendmail to create and transmit an NNTP
> "cancel" message to a specified server.
>
> Of course, I don't know if the "cancel" message would be effective on that
> server; and there are NG servers that I cannot even access using NNTP.
>
> But I'd like to give it a try.

Bruce Hagen · External Since: Apr 17, 2004 Posts: 12678

MSNews does not "cancel" messages.

You can delete any post off your machine you wish. (Perhaps what Shenan is
eluding to).

Twayne's reference to "eternity" may be 90 days. That is the retention time
for posts on MSNews via NNTP. The " MS Communities" forum keep posts much
longer, and Google for almost an eternity.

Play around here and see if any message is ever actually removed.

Test Newsgroup:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.test.here
--

Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP [Mail]
Imperial Beach, CA

--

Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP [Mail]
Imperial Beach, CA

"Mr Smith" <mrsmith.RemoveThis@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:eDhsZo2JKHA.5808@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> "Shenan Stanley" <newshelpers.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>> From time to time I delete messages which are considered
>> to be abusive, or plain rude to other users.
>
> How do you accomplish that?
>
> RFC 1036 says that the server should at least ensure that the "cancel"
> message has the same sender id as the message being canceled. Are you
> saying that you forge the sender id?
>
> Easy to do in OE Sad

. That -- the easy of forging sender ids -- is why
> honoring "cancel" messages is deprecated.
>
> In any case, Bruce says the MSnews server does not honor "cancel"
> messages. Are you saying he is wrong?
>
> I guess I'll have to try it, after all. Twayne, too, did say that
> "cancel" works. But Twayne also said that it might "almost eternity" for
> the "cancel" to take effect Sad

.
>
>
> ----- original message -----
>
> "Shenan Stanley" <newshelpers.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:d9b96f18-a113-4ce8-a741-5c0cd01cdc89@u38g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
> From time to time I delete messages which are considered to be
> abusive, or plain rude to other users. The only exception is messages
> posted by MVPs who are authorised to bully Microsoft customers. Porn
> is strictly not allowed here so don't even try it!
>
> What exactly is your problem?
>
> --
> Shenan Stanley
> MS-MVP
> --
> How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 26, 4:52 am, "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31....RemoveThis@live.com> wrote:
>> Can I send an NNTP "cancel" control message using OE?
>>
>> If not OE, is there some other tool on a standard Win XP (SP3) system
>> that I
>> can use?
>>
>> A Google search turned up tech ref pages for the IIS Manager, which speak
>> of
>> sending the "cancel" message. I don't know if I have the IIS Manager; if
>> I
>> do, obviously I don't know how to run it.
>>
>> Alternatively, is there a program on a standard Win XP (SP3) system that
>> is
>> similar in function to sendmail, the typical SMTP program on most Unix
>> systems?
>>
>> I know that I can use (Unix) sendmail to create and transmit an NNTP
>> "cancel" message to a specified server.
>>
>> Of course, I don't know if the "cancel" message would be effective on
>> that
>> server; and there are NG servers that I cannot even access using NNTP.
>>
>> But I'd like to give it a try.
>

N. Miller · External Since: Jul 31, 2006 Posts: 820

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:54:42 -0400, Twayne wrote:

> I did some testing during a recent thread on cancelling messages here.
> It seems they DO honor the Cancels, but ... it can take from now to
> almost eternity before the cancel happens. The messages just disappear;
> nothing left to indicate they were ever there.
> And yes, I did reload the messages each time, plus once removed the
> entire group and then brought it back; all the same results. IIRC
> evertying I Canceled did cancel. Eventually.

The 'msnews.microsoft.com' server does not honor cancels. But they are not
the only NNTP servers carrying Microsoft newsgroups, and other NNTP servers
may honor cancels. One such is, 'news.eternal-september.org'. If you post to
the latter, and cancel it before 'msnews.microsoft.com' slurps it, the
article will never appear on 'msnews.microsoft.com'. OTOH, if you cancel at
'news.eternal-september.org' after 'msnews.microsoft.com' slurps it, the
article will appear on, and remain on 'msnews.microsoft.com' until it ages
out; even though it will disappear from 'news.eternal-september.org'.

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

N. Miller · External Since: Jul 31, 2006 Posts: 820

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:59:57 -0700, Mr Smith wrote:

> "Shenan Stanley" <newshelpers.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:

>> From time to time I delete messages which are considered
>> to be abusive, or plain rude to other users.

> How do you accomplish that?

The poster you responded to used Google Groups to post; I delete all GG
posts in this group (from the client, not the server!) so I couldn't see his
post. However, GG has a facility to cancel posts appearing in GG. I've done
it, even when I've posted with an email address in the, '.invalid' domain.
If you don't have a viable email address as the "Poster", you have to take
some extra steps describing your posting ID, and swear an affidavit that you
have the right to authorize removal of the post. When GG approves, the post
goes, "poof". At least from the Google Groups.

> RFC 1036 says that the server should at least ensure that the "cancel"
> message has the same sender id as the message being canceled. Are you
> saying that you forge the sender id?
>
> Easy to do in OE Sad

. That -- the easy of forging sender ids -- is why
> honoring "cancel" messages is deprecated.
>
> In any case, Bruce says the MSnews server does not honor "cancel" messages.
> Are you saying he is wrong?

Bruce is correct. I've test this a few times myself. Post an article to
'msnews.microsoft.com', and you can't cancel it.

However, post an article to 'news.eternal-september.org', and that server
will honor the cancel. If it disappears from Eternal Septmeber before
Microsoft slurps it, 'msnews.microsof.com' will never see it. OTOH, if
Microsoft does slurp it before Eternal September cancels it, the article
will be gone from 'news.eternal-september.org', and Google Groups (and any
other NNTP server which honors cancels), but it will remain on
'msnews.microsoft.com', and any other NNTP server which has it, and does not
honor cancels.

Consequently, the issuing of a cancel control article is very dicey, and
should not be counted on to work across the global spectrum of NNTP servers.

> I guess I'll have to try it, after all. Twayne, too, did say that "cancel"
> works. But Twayne also said that it might "almost eternity" for the
> "cancel" to take effect Sad

.

Twayne's results are sufficiently spotty that he has developed a convoluted
theory to explain them. Occam's Razor should prefer my explanation over
Twayne's.

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Twayne · External Since: Jun 30, 2009 Posts: 13

"Michael Santovec" <michael_santovec DeleteThis @prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:eYrtXJ0JKHA.6016@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl
> Doing a unsubscribe and subscribe again in OE won't generally clear up
> any issues with the news message store. You need to RESET the
> newsgroup, which will mark it in OE as if it is visiting the newsgroup
> for the first time.
>
> You have to be a very blatant spammer before Microsoft will block a
> sender id. If an occasional message is blocked, that would most
> likely be because the message contains one or more spammer keywords.
> Microsoft does not publish this list.

Actually, MS doesn't GAS about spam on the groups. They will ONLY get
involved if they receive complaints about illegal and criminal activity.
If you keep track, you'll notice too that a lot of those "removed"
messages will come back later when the servers finish synchronizing.
Lately for some reason it's happened the message returns just by moving
on to another and then returning to it. Sometimes I'll see several
happen that way but usually it's only once per session or day and always
during heavy traffic hours, here at least.

Twayne`

>
>
> "Mr Smith" <mrsmith DeleteThis @nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:uINRFuvJKHA.4376@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> "Michael Santovec" <michael_santovec DeleteThis @prodigy.net> wrote:
>>> When you came back did you get a notice that the message
>>> had been canceled or was it just that you couldn't find
>>> it again?
>>
>> One time, I saw a "removed from server" message; other times, the
>> message just disappeared.
>>
>> I have tried unsubscribing and resubscribing. I am pretty sure the
>> messages are simply gone from the server. I cannot tell for sure
>> without looking at a network trace of the download. But I have
>> deselected "group by conversation", and the messages are nowhere to
>> be found within the time period that I know they were posted, all in
>> the last couple days.
>>
>>
>>> Microsoft doesn't cancel many messages unless they
>>> are obvious spam, contain a virus, or similar. On
>>> occasion a legitimate message is caught by a filter.
>>
>> That is my current theory. I suspect the sender id got added to a
>> list of spammers, presumably inadvertently.
>>
>> I am assuming that the MSNews server removes suspected spam some time
>> later, rather than block it upon arrival. Is that a valid
>> assumption? That would explain why I see the articles in Google
>> Groups, but not
>> on the MSNews server anymore.
>>
>> Anyway, I am now posting under a different sender identity.
>>
>>
>>> The Microsoft news server is actually a bank of news servers.
>>> They occasionally get out-of-synch. When that happens, when
>>> you next connect to a news server it might be a different one
>>> than you posted to and if the message didn't make it there,
>>> it will seem to disappear.
>>
>> That's an interesting and viable theory.
>>
>>
>>> Also, issues in your news client could cause a message to
>>> disappear. This includes your view options and blocked
>>> senders list.
>>
>> I considered that, too. I have checked my view options and blocked
>> sender list. They seem copacetic. If you can suggest anything in
>> particular that I should look for, I'd be happy to double-check.
>>
>> I should reiterate that these messages did appear on the MSNews
>> server initially. They were removed (or otherwise disappeared)
>> later, often within an hour, one time after a couple days. I don't
>> believe I made any changes to my OE configuration in the interim.
>>
>> Thanks for your thoughtful ideas.
>>
>>
>> ----- original message -----
>>
>> "Michael Santovec" <michael_santovec DeleteThis @prodigy.net> wrote in message
>> news:ukumv6rJKHA.1724@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>> When you came back did you get a notice that the message had been
>>> canceled or was it just that you couldn't find it again?
>>>
>>> Messages can be canceled by the news server administrator or server
>>> side filters. Microsoft doesn't cancel many messages unless they
>>> are obvious spam, contain a virus, or similar. On occasion a
>>> legitimate message is caught by a filter.
>>>
>>> The Microsoft news server is actually a bank of news servers. They
>>> occasionally get out-of-synch. When that happens, when you next
>>> connect to a news server it might be a different one than you posted
>>> to and if the message didn't make it there, it will seem to
>>> disappear.
>>>
>>> Also, issues in your news client could cause a message to disappear.
>>> This includes your view options and blocked senders list.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Mike - http://TechHelp.Santovec.us
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415 DeleteThis @live.com> wrote in message
>>> news:e0hPS5hJKHA.4608@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam DeleteThis @mymail.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> The Cancel Message option in OE works
>>>>
>>>> Aha, RTFM! I shoulda tried Help first. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Msnews, (this server), does not honor cancel message requests.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks. Saves me the trouble of trying.
>>>>
>>>> Any idea how a message I posted and saw on the server
>>>> (msnews.microsoft.com)
>>>> subsequently was removed? ("Subsequently" = within a few hours,
>>>> not >90 days.)
>>>>
>>>> I don't remember what happened exactly. The message title was
>>>> lined-through, and when I hovered the cursor over it, I think,
>>>> that's when I saw a message to the effect "removed from server".
>>>> Some time later, perhaps when I exited and subsequently revisited
>>>> the NG, the message title was removed. I presume the message was
>>>> removed from my cache.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> AFAIK, very few if any servers still do.
>>>>
>>>> Right. At a company I worked for, our internal news servers
>>>> initially accepted "cancel" messages, but only for local
>>>> newsgroups. At least, that was the intent. We disabled the
>>>> feature altogether when we learned how easy it was for outsiders
>>>> to cancel messages due to some individuals' poor crossposting
>>>> behavior.
>>>>> I don't believe that the news client you use, or any other tool
>>>>> will make
>>>>> a difference. Either the server accepts your request, or it
>>>>> doesn't.
>>>>
>>>> Right. The only verification specified by RFC 1036 is to ensure
>>>> that the sender of the "cancel" message is the same as the sender
>>>> of message being canceled. But that is easy to spoof.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- original message -----
>>>>
>>>> "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam DeleteThis @mymail.invalid> wrote in message
>>>> news:%23Qa4BJgJKHA.4652@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>>> The Cancel Message option in OE works, but only if the server you
>>>>> are
>>>>> sending it to obliges and actually does cancel the message.
>>>>>
>>>>> Msnews, (this server), does not honor cancel message requests.
>>>>> AFAIK, very
>>>>> few if any servers still do.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't believe that the news client you use, or any other tool
>>>>> will make
>>>>> a difference. Either the server accepts your request, or it
>>>>> doesn't.
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Bruce Hagen
>>>>> MS-MVP [Mail]
>>>>> Imperial Beach, CA
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "WhatsUp31415" <whatsup31415 DeleteThis @live.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:%23yY2rCgJKHA.4432@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> Can I send an NNTP "cancel" control message using OE?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If not OE, is there some other tool on a standard Win XP (SP3)
>>>>>> system
>>>>>> that I can use?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A Google search turned up tech ref pages for the IIS Manager,
>>>>>> which speak
>>>>>> of sending the "cancel" message. I don't know if I have the IIS
>>>>>> Manager;
>>>>>> if I do, obviously I don't know how to run it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alternatively, is there a program on a standard Win XP (SP3)
>>>>>> system that
>>>>>> is similar in function to sendmail, the typical SMTP program on
>>>>>> most Unix
>>>>>> systems?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know that I can use (Unix) sendmail to create and transmit an
>>>>>> NNTP
>>>>>> "cancel" message to a specified server.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course, I don't know if the "cancel" message would be
>>>>>> effective on
>>>>>> that server; and there are NG servers that I cannot even access
>>>>>> using
>>>>>> NNTP.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But I'd like to give it a try.

Twayne · External Since: Jun 30, 2009 Posts: 13

"Shenan Stanley" <newshelpers.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d9b96f18-a113-4ce8-a741-5c0cd01cdc89@u38g2000pro.googlegroups.com
> From time to time I delete messages which are considered to be
> abusive, or plain rude to other users. The only exception is messages
> posted by MVPs who are authorised to bully Microsoft customers. Porn
> is strictly not allowed here so don't even try it!

What the hell? And you claim to be an MVP?

>
> What exactly is your problem?
>
> --
> Shenan Stanley
> MS-MVP
....

Twayne · External Since: Jun 30, 2009 Posts: 13

"N. Miller" <anonymous.DeleteThis@msnews.aosake.net> wrote in message
news:ee7mqjj4oe4i.dlg@msnews.aosake.net
> On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:59:57 -0700, Mr Smith wrote:
>
>> "Shenan Stanley" <newshelpers.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> From time to time I delete messages which are considered
>>> to be abusive, or plain rude to other users.
>
>> How do you accomplish that?
>
> The poster you responded to used Google Groups to post; I delete all
> GG posts in this group (from the client, not the server!) so I
> couldn't see his post. However, GG has a facility to cancel posts
> appearing in GG. I've done it, even when I've posted with an email
> address in the, '.invalid' domain. If you don't have a viable email
> address as the "Poster", you have to take some extra steps describing
> your posting ID, and swear an affidavit that you have the right to
> authorize removal of the post. When GG approves, the post goes,
> "poof". At least from the Google Groups.
>
>> RFC 1036 says that the server should at least ensure that the
>> "cancel" message has the same sender id as the message being
>> canceled. Are you saying that you forge the sender id?
>>
>> Easy to do in OE Sad

. That -- the easy of forging sender ids -- is
>> why honoring "cancel" messages is deprecated.
>>
>> In any case, Bruce says the MSnews server does not honor "cancel"
>> messages. Are you saying he is wrong?
>
> Bruce is correct. I've test this a few times myself. Post an article
> to 'msnews.microsoft.com', and you can't cancel it.

No, he's not. Neither are you. It's simple enough to prove. Do it. I
did. And after resetting the groups on the 2nd day, the messages were
gone.
It was true at one time. But it is not true now. Try it, and you'll
see. Or is it just easier to parrot someone else?

Twayne`

>
> However, post an article to 'news.eternal-september.org', and that
> server will honor the cancel. If it disappears from Eternal Septmeber
> before Microsoft slurps it, 'msnews.microsof.com' will never see it.
> OTOH, if Microsoft does slurp it before Eternal September cancels it,
> the article will be gone from 'news.eternal-september.org', and
> Google Groups (and any other NNTP server which honors cancels), but
> it will remain on 'msnews.microsoft.com', and any other NNTP server
> which has it, and does not honor cancels.
>
> Consequently, the issuing of a cancel control article is very dicey,
> and should not be counted on to work across the global spectrum of
> NNTP servers.
>
>> I guess I'll have to try it, after all. Twayne, too, did say that
>> "cancel" works. But Twayne also said that it might "almost
>> eternity" for the "cancel" to take effect Sad

.
>
> Twayne's results are sufficiently spotty that he has developed a
> convoluted theory to explain them. Occam's Razor should prefer my
> explanation over Twayne's.

Twayne · External Since: Jun 30, 2009 Posts: 13

"N. Miller" <anonymous.DeleteThis@msnews.aosake.net> wrote in message
news:1kkhxf5fltyze.dlg@msnews.aosake.net
> On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:54:42 -0400, Twayne wrote:
>
>> I did some testing during a recent thread on cancelling messages
>> here. It seems they DO honor the Cancels, but ... it can take from
>> now to almost eternity before the cancel happens. The messages just
>> disappear; nothing left to indicate they were ever there.
>> And yes, I did reload the messages each time, plus once removed
>> the entire group and then brought it back; all the same results.
>> IIRC evertying I Canceled did cancel. Eventually.
>
> The 'msnews.microsoft.com' server does not honor cancels. But they
> are not the only NNTP servers carrying Microsoft newsgroups, and
> other NNTP servers may honor cancels. One such is,
> 'news.eternal-september.org'. If you post to the latter, and cancel
> it before 'msnews.microsoft.com' slurps it, the article will never
> appear on 'msnews.microsoft.com'. OTOH, if you cancel at
> 'news.eternal-september.org' after 'msnews.microsoft.com' slurps it,
> the article will appear on, and remain on 'msnews.microsoft.com'
> until it ages out; even though it will disappear from
> 'news.eternal-september.org'.

I use msnews.microsoft.NET and I assure you they do/did cancel. Why you
want to argue about it is beyond me. If you're too slow to bother
trying something, then that's your own personal problems, I'd say.

Mr Smith · External Since: Aug 27, 2009 Posts: 7

"Twayne" <nobody.RemoveThis@devnull.spamcop.net> wrote:
> I use msnews.microsoft.NET

What is the IP address for msnews.microsoft.net?

My DNS server does not recognize that name.

> nslookup msnews.microsoft.net
*** cns.sanjose.ca.sanfran.comcast.net
can't find msnews.microsoft.net: Non-existent domain

Server: cns.sanjose.ca.sanfran.comcast.net
Address: 68.87.76.182

> nslookup msnews.microsoft.com
Non-authoritative answer:
Server: cns.sanjose.ca.sanfran.comcast.net
Address: 68.87.76.182

Name: msnews.microsoft.com
Address: 207.46.248.16

----- original messages -----

"Twayne" <nobody.RemoveThis@devnull.spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:OwIh9S4JKHA.6016@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> "N. Miller" <anonymous.RemoveThis@msnews.aosake.net> wrote in message
> news:1kkhxf5fltyze.dlg@msnews.aosake.net
>> On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:54:42 -0400, Twayne wrote:
>>
>>> I did some testing during a recent thread on cancelling messages
>>> here. It seems they DO honor the Cancels, but ... it can take from
>>> now to almost eternity before the cancel happens. The messages just
>>> disappear; nothing left to indicate they were ever there.
>>> And yes, I did reload the messages each time, plus once removed
>>> the entire group and then brought it back; all the same results.
>>> IIRC evertying I Canceled did cancel. Eventually.
>>
>> The 'msnews.microsoft.com' server does not honor cancels. But they
>> are not the only NNTP servers carrying Microsoft newsgroups, and
>> other NNTP servers may honor cancels. One such is,
>> 'news.eternal-september.org'. If you post to the latter, and cancel
>> it before 'msnews.microsoft.com' slurps it, the article will never
>> appear on 'msnews.microsoft.com'. OTOH, if you cancel at
>> 'news.eternal-september.org' after 'msnews.microsoft.com' slurps it,
>> the article will appear on, and remain on 'msnews.microsoft.com'
>> until it ages out; even though it will disappear from
>> 'news.eternal-september.org'.
>
> I use msnews.microsoft.NET and I assure you they do/did cancel. Why you
> want to argue about it is beyond me. If you're too slow to bother trying
> something, then that's your own personal problems, I'd say.
>
>
>