Keeping Windows 98 alive via a virtual machine?

Larry · External Since: Feb 17, 2005 Posts: 215

Since this is the newsgroup where Windows 98 die-hards hang out, are there
people here who keep a Windows 98 environment for themselves by installing
it on a virtual machine within XP or Vista, via VM Ware or similar programs?
I've picked up a few things about virtualization, and I'm interested in
learning more about how it is done.

Basically, with virtual machines, older operating systems (and applications)
can remain viable for however long one wants to use them. This is great
news.

Larry

user1435 · External Since: Nov 15, 2004 Posts: 1693

> Since this is the newsgroup where Windows 98 die-hards hang out, are there
> people here who keep a Windows 98 environment for themselves by installing
> it on a virtual machine within XP or Vista, via VM Ware or similar
> programs? I've picked up a few things about virtualization, and I'm
> interested in learning more about how it is done.
>
> Basically, with virtual machines, older operating systems (and
> applications) can remain viable for however long one wants to use them.
> This is great news.
>
> Larry

I use VPC 2007 in XP Pro and have Win98Se, XP Pro, XP Home, Server 2003,
Vista and ? installed in VPC.
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=04D26402-3199...A3-AFA2

--
Brian A. Sesko
Conflicts start where information lacks.
http://basconotw.mvps.org/

Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

Jeff Richards · External Since: Mar 14, 2004 Posts: 1333

Using Virtual PC to run Windows 98 is very common. People have a variety of
reasons for using W98. Software that won't run on newer operating systems
and hardware that does not have drivers for anything other than W9x are
common reasons.
--
Jeff Richards
MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
"Larry" <larry328NOSPAM DeleteThis @att.net> wrote in message
news:O%23Znv4O4JHA.5728@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Since this is the newsgroup where Windows 98 die-hards hang out, are there
> people here who keep a Windows 98 environment for themselves by installing
> it on a virtual machine within XP or Vista, via VM Ware or similar
> programs?
> I've picked up a few things about virtualization, and I'm interested in
> learning more about how it is done.
>
> Basically, with virtual machines, older operating systems (and
> applications)
> can remain viable for however long one wants to use them. This is great
> news.
>
> Larry
>

Don Phillipson · External Since: Jan 11, 2009 Posts: 14

"Jeff Richards" <JRichards.RemoveThis@msn.com.au> wrote in message
news:OA9QxLQ4JHA.2336@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

> Using Virtual PC to run Windows 98 is very common. People have a variety
of
> reasons for using W98. Software that won't run on newer operating systems
> and hardware that does not have drivers for anything other than W9x are
> common reasons.

Hard drive format becomes relevant here. If the Virtual PC
has its home on a NTFS drive, data files from the FAT
environment can be imported to it only within the NTFS
environment (e.g. via WinXP Network Places.)
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

user1435 · External Since: Nov 15, 2004 Posts: 1693

> "Jeff Richards" <JRichards.RemoveThis@msn.com.au> wrote in message
> news:OA9QxLQ4JHA.2336@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>
>> Using Virtual PC to run Windows 98 is very common. People have a
>> variety of reasons for using W98. Software that won't run on newer
>> operating systems and hardware that does not have drivers for anything
>> other than W9x are common reasons.
>
> Hard drive format becomes relevant here. If the Virtual PC
> has its home on a NTFS drive, data files from the FAT
> environment can be imported to it only within the NTFS
> environment (e.g. via WinXP Network Places.)
> --
> Don Phillipson
> Carlsbad Springs
> (Ottawa, Canada)

Say What?

VPC 2007 installed on XP w/all drives NTFS format.
Have a .vmc with 98SE installed on FAT32 formatted .vhd in VPC.
Can drag/drop files/folders both ways, from XP host directly into the VPC
window running 98SE and from 98SE directly to XP.

Or

In the VPC console > .vmc 98SE configuration settings, the user can select
and set folders which are on XP to be shared in 98SE.

Or

The user can Right click on the folder icon at the bottom of the VPC window
to set a shared folder.
In 98SE the shared XP folders are mapped drives, which the user has full
access to do anything with that the user wants to do.

--
Brian A. Sesko
Conflicts start where information lacks.
http://basconotw.mvps.org/

Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

Bill in Co. · External Since: Apr 24, 2005 Posts: 570

I was curious in regards to the software that won't install or run in WinXP,
but will (only) run on Win9x (disregarding some games and DOS programs, and
some very old utility type programs). Is there anything really common
that really stands out? (Just curious)

Jeff Richards wrote:
> Using Virtual PC to run Windows 98 is very common. People have a variety
> of
> reasons for using W98. Software that won't run on newer operating systems
> and hardware that does not have drivers for anything other than W9x are
> common reasons.
> --
> Jeff Richards
> MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
> "Larry" <larry328NOSPAM RemoveThis @att.net> wrote in message
> news:O%23Znv4O4JHA.5728@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Since this is the newsgroup where Windows 98 die-hards hang out, are
>> there
>> people here who keep a Windows 98 environment for themselves by
>> installing
>> it on a virtual machine within XP or Vista, via VM Ware or similar
>> programs?
>> I've picked up a few things about virtualization, and I'm interested in
>> learning more about how it is done.
>>
>> Basically, with virtual machines, older operating systems (and
>> applications)
>> can remain viable for however long one wants to use them. This is great
>> news.
>>
>> Larry

98 Guy · External Since: Mar 12, 2005 Posts: 443

Larry wrote:

> Since this is the newsgroup where Windows 98 die-hards hang out,
> are there people here who keep a Windows 98 environment for
> themselves by installing it on a virtual machine within XP or
> Vista, via VM Ware or similar programs?

No. I just run win-98 as my PC's only, native OS.

There is really nothing I want to do, or software I want to run, or
hardware I want or need to install or attach to my systems that _really_
requires 2K/XP.

(I recently bought an HP 2133 netbook and formatted it's drive as 100%
FAT32. It dual-boots DOS / Win-XP. I'm still working on getting win-98
to run on it, but I doubt that some functions such as video or wifi will
work.)

I also recently bought a very small GPS reciever (Photomate 887). It
also functions as a data logger (it can log GPS positions once per
second, with capacity for 125k points). It's also has blue tooth. It
connects via USB and appears as a serial port to the PC. When you
connect it to an XP machine, it will ask for drivers (apparently XP has
no native support for this device and it will seek an source for
drivers). The 887 comes with a small cd which has drivers. It includes
a directory for win-98 drivers.

Don Phillipson · External Since: Jan 11, 2009 Posts: 14

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here DeleteThis @earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:uZ4Nz5U4JHA.1196@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

> I was curious in regards to the software that won't install or run in
WinXP,
> but will (only) run on Win9x (disregarding some games and DOS programs,
and
> some very old utility type programs). Is there anything really common
> that really stands out? (Just curious)

Cases include:
(Borland) Quattro Pro v.8
(Corel) Paradox v.7

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

Jeff Richards · External Since: Mar 14, 2004 Posts: 1333

Perhaps not common. My favourite 3D modelling and animation software (which
was bought out by a competitor, and is now available for ten times the price
that I paid for it) generates an error in one particular module if run in
anything newer than NT4 or W98. I also have software for a specialist
printer that appears to be hard-wired to run on W98 only - the printer
itself works just fine with any OS, but it seems they want users to invest
in upgraded software, and will not provide newer versions of the (much
simpler, and faster) free software.
--
Jeff Richards
MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
"Bill in Co." <not_really_here RemoveThis @earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:uZ4Nz5U4JHA.1196@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>I was curious in regards to the software that won't install or run in
>WinXP, but will (only) run on Win9x (disregarding some games and DOS
>programs, and some very old utility type programs). Is there anything
>really common that really stands out? (Just curious)
>
> Jeff Richards wrote:
>> Using Virtual PC to run Windows 98 is very common. People have a variety
>> of
>> reasons for using W98. Software that won't run on newer operating
>> systems
>> and hardware that does not have drivers for anything other than W9x are
>> common reasons.
>> --
>> Jeff Richards
>> MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
>> "Larry" <larry328NOSPAM RemoveThis @att.net> wrote in message
>> news:O%23Znv4O4JHA.5728@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>> Since this is the newsgroup where Windows 98 die-hards hang out, are
>>> there
>>> people here who keep a Windows 98 environment for themselves by
>>> installing
>>> it on a virtual machine within XP or Vista, via VM Ware or similar
>>> programs?
>>> I've picked up a few things about virtualization, and I'm interested in
>>> learning more about how it is done.
>>>
>>> Basically, with virtual machines, older operating systems (and
>>> applications)
>>> can remain viable for however long one wants to use them. This is great
>>> news.
>>>
>>> Larry
>
>

Jeff Richards · External Since: Mar 14, 2004 Posts: 1333

I do not understand what you are saying. The file system (NTFS or FAT) is
not relevant for operating systems installed in a virtual machine other than
for drives created within that VM. These drives have to be created as a
type that the installed OS understands. All other drives accessible to the
host are mapped as network drives for the VM and can be in any file system
that the host recognises.
--
Jeff Richards
MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
"Don Phillipson" <e925 RemoveThis @SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca> wrote in message
news:uQOgzmS4JHA.5728@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> "Jeff Richards" <JRichards RemoveThis @msn.com.au> wrote in message
> news:OA9QxLQ4JHA.2336@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>
>> Using Virtual PC to run Windows 98 is very common. People have a variety
> of
>> reasons for using W98. Software that won't run on newer operating
>> systems
>> and hardware that does not have drivers for anything other than W9x are
>> common reasons.
>
> Hard drive format becomes relevant here. If the Virtual PC
> has its home on a NTFS drive, data files from the FAT
> environment can be imported to it only within the NTFS
> environment (e.g. via WinXP Network Places.)
> --
> Don Phillipson
> Carlsbad Springs
> (Ottawa, Canada)
>
>

Larry · External Since: Feb 17, 2005 Posts: 215

> I use VPC 2007 in XP Pro and have Win98Se, XP Pro, XP Home, Server
2003, Vista and ? installed in VPC.

Just curious, how much RAM do you have on your machine? Do you run these
guest OS's simultaneously, or one at a time?

Also, doesn't the maximum RAM capability of the computer put a limit on
getting the RAM needed for the guest OS's?

For a person who wants to have just one, or maybe two virtual machines on
the computer, is there any advantage to VM Ware over Virtual PC?

Thanks,
Larry

user1435 · External Since: Nov 15, 2004 Posts: 1693

>
> Just curious, how much RAM do you have on your machine? Do you run these
> guest OS's simultaneously, or one at a time?

4GB. Due to the RAM alloted for each of the .vmc I run mainly two
although occasionally I will run 3.

>
> Also, doesn't the maximum RAM capability of the computer put a limit on
> getting the RAM needed for the guest OS's?

From VPC help:
<quote>
For host disk space and memory, refer to the following table to determine
the minimum required by the host operating system. This disk space is only a
starting point in determining how much disk space you will need. You also
must calculate the additional space that will be required by adding the
requirements of all guest operating systems you plan to deploy.

Windows Vista Ultimate 512 MB 15 GB
Windows Vista Enterprise 512 MB 15 GB
Windows Vista Business 512 MB 15 GB
Windows Server 2003,
Standard x64 Edition 128 MB of RAM required; 256 MB or more
recommended
1.25 to 2 GB of available
hard-disk space
Windows Server 2003,
Standard Edition 128 MB 2 GB
Windows XP Professional 128 MB 2 GB
Windows XP Home Edition 128 MB 2 GB

The following table lists the disk space and RAM required by each operating
system that Virtual PC supports as a guest operating system. The minimum
required disk space is the sum of the required disk space of each guest
operating system and the host operating system, in addition to additional
disk space for any applications to be installed on the operating systems. If
you plan to run more than one guest operating system simultaneously, you
will need to add the RAM requirements for all of those operating systems in
addition to the RAM required by the host operating system. To enhance
performance, consider increasing the amount of memory beyond the minimum
requirement.

Windows Vista Ultimate 512 MB 15 GB
Windows Vista Enterprise 512 MB 15 GB
Windows Vista Business 512 MB 15 GB
Windows XP Professional 128 MB 2 GB
Windows XP Home Edition 128 MB 2 GB
Windows 2000 Professional 128 MB 2 GB
Windows 98 Second Edition 128 MB 2 GB

>
> For a person who wants to have just one, or maybe two virtual machines on
> the computer, is there any advantage to VM Ware over Virtual PC?

Someone else would need to answer that, I've never used VM Ware.

--

Brian A. Sesko
Conflicts start where information lacks.
http://basconotw.mvps.org/

Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

user1435 · External Since: Nov 15, 2004 Posts: 1693

Correction to the Host system requirements:
Windows Vista Ultimate 512 MB 15 GB
Windows Vista Enterprise 512 MB 15 GB
Windows Vista Business 512 MB 15 GB
Windows XP Professional 128 MB 2 GB
Windows XP Home Edition 128 MB 2 GB
Windows Server 2003, Standard x64 Edition 512 MB 4 GB
Windows Server 2003, Standard Edition
128 MB of RAM required; 256 MB or more recommended
1.25 to 2 GB of available hard-disk space

--

Brian A. Sesko
Conflicts start where information lacks.
http://basconotw.mvps.org/

Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

Bill Blanton · External Since: Jun 13, 2004 Posts: 572

"Larry" <larry328NOSPAM RemoveThis @att.net> wrote in message news:ePDePoy4JHA.1424@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

>Brian A wrote:
>> I use VPC 2007 in XP Pro and have Win98Se, XP Pro, XP Home, Server
> 2003, Vista and ? installed in VPC.

> For a person who wants to have just one, or maybe two virtual machines on
> the computer, is there any advantage to VM Ware over Virtual PC?

Last I checked VMWare's workstation was not free.

VMWare has USB support, VPC does not. Not a big deal if you only
want to access a folder on a USB device. In that case you can "share"
the host folder.

VMWare supports non-MS OS. VPC does not. You may be able to install
a Linux distro (for example) in VPC, but good luck finding the guest
"additions" software needed to allow some guest to host interactions.
Things like drag & drop, copy/paste, folder sharing, and mouse integration
between the host and guest (you will want these capabilities) would only be
available for supported MS OS guests in VPC.

There may be other differences that I'm not aware of. I've only installed
VMWare for a trial period, and was a while ago. I suspect that VMWare
puts more into their product development when it comes to the workstation
model. VPC's good, but MS seems to be sitting on it as a standalone package.

If you're only going to be guesting MS OSs, VPC is a good choice (and free).
You might also want to have a look at VirtualBox. All that said, you can always
install more than one virtual machine package and go from there.

No Alternative · External Since: May 07, 2009 Posts: 8

On Sat, 30 May 2009 02:15:51 -0400, Larry wrote:

> Since this is the newsgroup where Windows 98 die-hards hang out, are
> there people here who keep a Windows 98 environment for themselves by
> installing it on a virtual machine within XP or Vista, via VM Ware or
> similar programs? I've picked up a few things about virtualization, and
> I'm interested in learning more about how it is done.
>
> Basically, with virtual machines, older operating systems (and
> applications) can remain viable for however long one wants to use them.
> This is great news.
>
> Larry

I have the 9x and 3x going on u-lite linux. I use vmware-player. I
create the machines at.
http://www.easyvmx.com/

--
http://english-158465906205.spampoison.com
http://u-lite.org

Larry · External Since: Feb 17, 2005 Posts: 215

Bill,

Thanks, I just came across this message (11 days late).

Larry

90bay · External Since: Aug 04, 2009 Posts: 1

I have a couple of win98 machinees that I would like to transfer to VPC

What imaging software did people use that will run on the win98 machines?

What is the easiest way to produce vhd from the win98 hard drive?

I have used VPC for testing, have installed win98 but never took an actual
win98 system and virtualized it.

thanks

user1435 · External Since: Nov 15, 2004 Posts: 1693

> I have a couple of win98 machinees that I would like to transfer to VPC

Conducting a "transfer" of an OS to a vmc/vhd may or may not work due to
the hardware/components being different.

>
> What imaging software did people use that will run on the win98 machines?

Although I have never attempted to "transfer" an OS to a vmc/vhd, I have
successfully used ATI Server ver 9.1 - build 3854 to create backup images of
a vmc/vhd from/to another vmc/vhd and other networked machines. Since it's
not necessary to restore an image to a vmc/vhd, I haven't attempted that
either. The reason there is no purpose to restore an image: As long as
there is a copy of a valid working vmc/vhd, that copy can replace the one it
is a copy of if the original should become corrupt.

>
> What is the easiest way to produce vhd from the win98 hard drive?

You don't, you create a vmc, then create a vhd and install W98 on the vhd.

>
> I have used VPC for testing, have installed win98 but never took an actual
> win98 system and virtualized it.
>
> thanks

See if any of this helps: http://basconotw.mvps.org/
Select your choice in the dropdown menu Misc Apps/Other > VirtualPC 2007.
Never mind the 2007, the only difference of VPC 2004/07 are the VPC
Additions.

--

Brian A. Sesko
Conflicts start where information lacks.
http://basconotw.mvps.org/

Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

Bill Blanton · External Since: Jun 13, 2004 Posts: 572

Google on p2v (physical to virtual) software. You might also want to post
this question to microsoft.public.virtualpc.

"90bay" <90bay.RemoveThis@newsgroup.nospam> wrote in message news:E37FAE95-CC2C-441B-8072-00EAF42AAEA4@microsoft.com...
>I have a couple of win98 machinees that I would like to transfer to VPC
>
> What imaging software did people use that will run on the win98 machines?
>
> What is the easiest way to produce vhd from the win98 hard drive?
>
> I have used VPC for testing, have installed win98 but never took an actual
> win98 system and virtualized it.
>
> thanks

ChrisD · External Since: Oct 10, 2009 Posts: 1

Brain A. is 100% on target w/ abilites of using Win98 OS as a guest w/
MS VM apps. However, I cannot get my physical printer operational in VM.
Host is WinXP Pro. Changed host BIOS printer selection from [Enabled] to
[Auto] for OS/BIOS select (not user); Entered command line scripts 'net
spooler stop' and 'sc config spooler start= disabled'; Allowed guest
Win98 VM to find and load Lexmark Inkjet hardware and software via Win98
wizards. Problem is printer appears to operate in VM only, physical
printer does not print/respond, i.e. to change ink cartridges; printer
control program (PCP) graphics display and appear to process print job;
printer icon appears in guest Win98 taskbar; PCP accurately displays
on/offline status of printer (appears there is some link/connection).
However, checking the printer icon through Win98 control panel shows no
jobs sent to printer queue, and pause function through control panel has
no effect on job seen running by PCP graphics?!? Conversely, pausing
print from PCP does not appear on Win 98 control panel print queue?!?
So close and yet so far. Can anyone help this blind squirrel find a
nut? My thanks to Ben Armstrong at MS for posting helpful online tips.
(P.S. There are no known problems with printer.)

--
ChrisD
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