How to Delete Huge Folder Containing Files with Invalid Na..

Ellen · External Since: May 27, 2009 Posts: 1

A crash filled my Firefox cache folder with tens of thousands of files
and subfolders with invalid characters in their names. As a result, I
can't delete the folder.

Here's what I tried and has failed so far:

Moving folder to recycle bin
Renaming folder to cache.tmp and using a utility called "Empty Temp
Folders" to delete files
Trying to delete files in the folder from a DOS command line prompt
Trying to clear the cache from Firefox
Making the cache size preference very small, closing and opening Firefox
Using System Suite, a disk management utility
Using DelinvFile, a utility designed to delete invalid files
Using PurgeFox, a utility designed to clear the firefox cache,

Sometimes these methods hung, and sometimes they returned error messages
about invalid file names, locked files and denied access.

I really want to get rid of this junk. Can anyone tell me how to delete
the folder and its contents or recommend a program that will do so?

Thanks.

Ellen

Bill in Co. · External Since: Apr 24, 2005 Posts: 570

You could try booting up in real DOS mode and using the Deltree command.
(But be careful with that command as to what you are deleting - it deletes
the directory specified and its subdirectories)

Ellen wrote:
> A crash filled my Firefox cache folder with tens of thousands of files
> and subfolders with invalid characters in their names. As a result, I
> can't delete the folder.
>
> Here's what I tried and has failed so far:
>
> Moving folder to recycle bin
> Renaming folder to cache.tmp and using a utility called "Empty Temp
> Folders" to delete files
> Trying to delete files in the folder from a DOS command line prompt
> Trying to clear the cache from Firefox
> Making the cache size preference very small, closing and opening Firefox
> Using System Suite, a disk management utility
> Using DelinvFile, a utility designed to delete invalid files
> Using PurgeFox, a utility designed to clear the firefox cache,
>
> Sometimes these methods hung, and sometimes they returned error messages
> about invalid file names, locked files and denied access.
>
> I really want to get rid of this junk. Can anyone tell me how to delete
> the folder and its contents or recommend a program that will do so?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ellen

Bill Blanton · External Since: Jun 13, 2004 Posts: 572

What's the exact name of the folder? You said you tried from a
DOS command-line prompt. Have you tried using the deltree command?
Or possibly from a boot to DOS?

"Ellen" <ellen RemoveThis @nospam.com.invalid> wrote in message news:gvkli1$283$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>A crash filled my Firefox cache folder with tens of thousands of files and subfolders with invalid characters in their names. As a
>result, I can't delete the folder.
>
> Here's what I tried and has failed so far:
>
> Moving folder to recycle bin
> Renaming folder to cache.tmp and using a utility called "Empty Temp Folders" to delete files
> Trying to delete files in the folder from a DOS command line prompt
> Trying to clear the cache from Firefox
> Making the cache size preference very small, closing and opening Firefox
> Using System Suite, a disk management utility
> Using DelinvFile, a utility designed to delete invalid files
> Using PurgeFox, a utility designed to clear the firefox cache,
>
> Sometimes these methods hung, and sometimes they returned error messages about invalid file names, locked files and denied access.
>
> I really want to get rid of this junk. Can anyone tell me how to delete the folder and its contents or recommend a program that
> will do so?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ellen
>
>
>
>
>

MEB · External Since: May 14, 2009 Posts: 4

Ellen wrote:
> A crash filled my Firefox cache folder with tens of thousands of files
> and subfolders with invalid characters in their names. As a result, I
> can't delete the folder.
>
> Here's what I tried and has failed so far:
>
> Moving folder to recycle bin
> Renaming folder to cache.tmp and using a utility called "Empty Temp
> Folders" to delete files
> Trying to delete files in the folder from a DOS command line prompt
> Trying to clear the cache from Firefox
> Making the cache size preference very small, closing and opening Firefox
> Using System Suite, a disk management utility
> Using DelinvFile, a utility designed to delete invalid files
> Using PurgeFox, a utility designed to clear the firefox cache,
>
> Sometimes these methods hung, and sometimes they returned error messages
> about invalid file names, locked files and denied access.
>
> I really want to get rid of this junk. Can anyone tell me how to delete
> the folder and its contents or recommend a program that will do so?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ellen
>
>
>
>
>

That is a problem..

First we should make sure you are using Win98, are you?

IF SO:
You will likely not be able to use a Windows 98 based utility to do
the delete. The issue appears similar to attempting to delete NTFS files
[left-overs from the OS] from a hard drive or device, or those indicated
in the below:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/320081
So potentially, you may be able to use XP or VISTA to change "some" of
the particular issues in Administrator Mode.

A. One method might be an un-install of FireFox. Make sure you export
your Book Marks and other before deleting for re-importation.
This may not work as FireFox is no longer in control of the files, nor
is Windows.

Other potentials:

1. From the command prompt, try using deltree {drive:/the folder
hierarchy}, the problem here is the depth involved within FireFox
folders and 8.3 file convention. LFN [a long file name tool] likely will
not be helpful, though you could attempt to use it during the process.
IF you can first cd into the last folder before the cache, the command
becomes deltree {the folder}. The issue might still remain the corrupted
Unicode characters [the former long file names/sites/URIs now converted
to weird names, permission indicators, purported short file names, and
other such junk now located in the FAT tables and actual file indicators].

2. A simpler method might be to download one of the smaller LIVE Linux
distributions and attempt the delete through the disk tools there.
You will need to "mount" the drive with read/write/delete access. The
default is usually read-only - go to properties or similar for the disk
and change the access rights.
*AFTER mounting the drive and changing rights*, go into the folder
PRIOR to the cached materials, and delete the folder with the corrupted
files.
*DO NOT* read [look at/into] the corrupted folder first, just attempt
the delete [reading the folder caches [or attempts to] the files and
folders]. You will be using something similar to Explorer [Nautilus or
similar, or possibly the Konqueror browser]. Make sure to confirm and
*write* to the disk. OR from terminal as SU or ROOT use * rm * on the
folder/file.

*NEITHER* of these methods are guaranteed to work.

3. And of course there are dozes of other recommended procedures, here's
one link which provides a couple of solutions [read the comments for
additional tools and techniques]:
http://ask-leo.com/why_cant_i_delete_this_file.html

Hey, why re-write what's already out here...

--
~
--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org/ref/windows-main.htm
Windows Diagnostics, Security, Networking
http://peoplescounsel.org
The *REAL WORLD* of Law, Justice, and Government
_______

philo · External Since: May 02, 2009 Posts: 4

Ellen wrote:
> A crash filled my Firefox cache folder with tens of thousands of files
> and subfolders with invalid characters in their names. As a result, I
> can't delete the folder.
>
> Here's what I tried and has failed so far:
>
> Moving folder to recycle bin
> Renaming folder to cache.tmp and using a utility called "Empty Temp
> Folders" to delete files
> Trying to delete files in the folder from a DOS command line prompt
> Trying to clear the cache from Firefox
> Making the cache size preference very small, closing and opening Firefox
> Using System Suite, a disk management utility
> Using DelinvFile, a utility designed to delete invalid files
> Using PurgeFox, a utility designed to clear the firefox cache,
>
> Sometimes these methods hung, and sometimes they returned error messages
> about invalid file names, locked files and denied access.
>
> I really want to get rid of this junk. Can anyone tell me how to delete
> the folder and its contents or recommend a program that will do so?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ellen
>
>
>
>
>

When your machine crashed it seems to have left quite a few logical
drive errors.
You will need to run scan disk and let it correct the errors.

Once the errors are corrected the files should be deletable
or possibly written to .chk files which can be deleted

Robert Macy · External Since: Feb 28, 2009 Posts: 32

On May 27, 5:23 pm, Ellen <el....RemoveThis@nospam.com.invalid> wrote:
> A crash filled my Firefox cache folder with tens of thousands of files
> and subfolders with invalid characters in their names. As a result, I
> can't delete the folder.
>
> Here's what I tried and has failed so far:
>
> Moving folder to recycle bin
> Renaming folder to cache.tmp and using a utility called "Empty Temp
> Folders" to delete files
> Trying to delete files in the folder from a DOS command line prompt
> Trying to clear the cache from Firefox
> Making the cache size preference very small, closing and opening Firefox
> Using System Suite, a disk management utility
> Using DelinvFile, a utility designed to delete invalid files
> Using PurgeFox, a utility designed to clear the firefox cache,
>
> Sometimes these methods hung, and sometimes they returned error messages
> about invalid file names, locked files and denied access.
>
> I really want to get rid of this junk. Can anyone tell me how to delete
> the folder and its contents or recommend a program that will do so?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ellen

I had a similar problem when a memory stick corrupted on me. I ended
up with the weirdest characters I'd ever seen as names for something
Win98 'thought' were files. Albeit, not as many as you have.

I tried in DOS command also with no success. But, I ran this first

> dir >directry.txt

then I used a free hex editor, called Hexeditor to look at
directry.txt and get a list of the file names. and printed out the
hex file. Then, armed with the hex list, I went back to command mode
and INDIVIDUALLY used

> del alt-ch alt-ch alt-ch

using the alt-character ability I deleted every weird file.

The files generated by my crash could not be moved into a
subdirectory, or deleted using deltree command. This was the only way
and it worked. Only had 100+ or so, so it was a project I worked at
from time to time. until finished.

Robert

PCR · External Since: Jun 21, 2004 Posts: 5941

Ellen wrote:
> A crash filled my Firefox cache folder with tens of thousands of files
> and subfolders with invalid characters in their names. As a result, I
> can't delete the folder.

What message do you get? That the folder is in use?

> Here's what I tried and has failed so far:
>
> Moving folder to recycle bin

Did it refuse to go into the Recycle Bin?

> Renaming folder to cache.tmp and using a utility called "Empty Temp
> Folders" to delete files

(1) You were able to rename the folder,
& unable to delete the renamed folder?
What was the error message?

(2) Did FireFox still regard it as its cache after that?
(I don't know how to tell-- maybe use FireFox & check
whether the original folder is recreated or whether
the renamed folder grows?)

(3) What is the name of the folder now...?...

(a) Open Explorer to the folder.
(b) Copy the name from the Address Bar,
& paste it into these quotes...
"".
(c) If there is no Address Bar, activate it by Right-Clicking
Explorer's Toolbar (where the Menu buttons are).
(d) R-Clk the folder in Explorer's left pane,
select "Properties" & post its MS-DOS Name.

> Trying to delete files in the folder from a DOS command line prompt

(1) What message did you get-- "File not found"?
(2) Did you do a DIR & see the file?
(3) At a Windows DOS Prompt,
opened to that folder...

(a) DIR > C:\Windows\Temp\Cache.txt
(">" redirects output to a file.)
(b) Post a bit of Cache.txt for examination.

> Trying to clear the cache from Firefox

Did you give it enough time? It can take an eternity to do that in IE!

> Making the cache size preference very small, closing and opening
> Firefox

I don't know. Maybe you needed to do more after that-- like opening &
using FireFox? Rebooting? Does FireFox still work?

> Using System Suite, a disk management utility
> Using DelinvFile, a utility designed to delete invalid files
> Using PurgeFox, a utility designed to clear the firefox cache,
>
> Sometimes these methods hung, and sometimes they returned error
> messages about invalid file names, locked files and denied access.

Give us the Windows & MS-DOS names of the folder. Maybe DELTREE will get
it after a direct boot to DOS. But you must be CAREFUL with
Deltree...!...

C:\>deltree/?
Deletes a directory and all the subdirectories and files in it.

To delete one or more files and directories:
DELTREE [/Y] [drive:]path [[drive:]path[...]]

/Y Suppresses prompting to confirm you want to delete
the subdirectory.
[drive:]path Specifies the name of the directory you want to
delete.

Note: Use DELTREE cautiously. Every file and subdirectory within the
specified directory will be deleted.

There also is a DOS UNLOCK command, but it appears to do with drives--
not files or folders...

C:\>unlock/?
Unlocks a drive, disabling direct disk access for an application.

UNLOCK [drive:]

> I really want to get rid of this junk. Can anyone tell me how to
> delete the folder and its contents or recommend a program that will
> do so?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ellen

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR
pcrrcp.RemoveThis@netzero.net

mm · External Since: Sep 27, 2005 Posts: 50

On Wed, 27 May 2009 20:28:20 -0600, "Bill in Co."
<not_really_here.RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote:

>You could try booting up in real DOS mode and using the Deltree command.
>(But be careful with that command as to what you are deleting - it deletes
>the directory specified and its subdirectories)

Once and only once, about 15 years ago, I had a directory D three or
four levels below the root that had a directory in it that was
actually the root directory C:\. I knew something was wierd but
didn't realize what would happen if I deleted the directory.

I think I only had DOS then, and I deleted *.* for directory D, and
while I watched it started deleting all the directories under C:\. I
was dumbfounded for a few seconds but turned the computer off after
about 150 files were deleted. About 120 of them I was able to
undelete, but for 20 or 30, I couldn't figure out what the first
character was, because I had no list of the files. Or sometimes there
were two choices. I undeleted all the files but didn't give the right
name to 20 of them, but luckily I never seemed to need them.

I think the problem remained after all this and I solved it by running
Scandisk. I should have done that before I deleted anything. Smile

mm · External Since: Sep 27, 2005 Posts: 50

On Wed, 27 May 2009 20:28:20 -0600, "Bill in Co."
<not_really_here DeleteThis @earthlink.net> wrote:

>You could try booting up in real DOS mode and using the Deltree command.
>(But be careful with that command as to what you are deleting - it deletes
>the directory specified and its subdirectories)

Oh, yeah. So the point of my last post must have been to run scandisk.
Maybe it will rename bad names. ???

MEB · External Since: May 14, 2009 Posts: 4

Sorry, forgot to include that it is advisable to check that disk for
virus and other PRIOR to data recovery. You don't want materials with
virus included.
Might also want to check the drive itself (check S.M.A.R.T. and other)
to see if you are having hard drive failure.
TestDisk, MHDD, and HDat2 [though I think it now is not free] can
check drive statistics.
You may be able to use a Live Linux [depending upon the compilation]
to check as well. You can use the LiveCD to recover/move files to
another drive if necessary.

--
~
--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org/ref/windows-main.htm
Windows Diagnostics, Security, Networking
http://peoplescounsel.org
The *REAL WORLD* of Law, Justice, and Government
_______

motzie · External Since: Jun 06, 2009 Posts: 2

MEB wrote:
> Ellen wrote:
>> Thanks for all the creative and practical advice!
>>
>> I haven't been able to log on to the newsgroup before now because
>> deltree effectively took out my net connection. After I ran it, my
>> dialup internet connection speed was never more than 300 bps, making
>> it impossible to connect to anything. And after I ran deltree, my
>> firewall would not load. Now I'm on a friend's pc.
>
> Hmm, what the heck did you deltree?
> I suppose it might be that you had severe corruption elsewhere as well
> and it was ALL placed into a supposed single folder.

deltree cache

but, it may not have been deltree, as I let some utilites fix some of
the invalid file names. perhaps this produced some crosslinked files.
these have slowed my net connection to a crawl in the past. i've always
fixed that problem using system suit's disk fix module but now system
suite wants to fix the invalid file names first, so it never got to fix
other problems. why the program won't load though has never happened.

>>
>> Using linux really appeals to me, MEB. simple, clean, and i remember
>> erasing dumps on one of my isp's unix shell's with one command. i am
>> interested in trying it after i move my data to a more stable pc.
>
> Right, use the previously mentioned technique [make sure you don't look
> at the corrupted directory or enter it or it may produce a *hard cache*].
>
> Command would look like:
>
> 1. rm -r -f {the full drive and path} {look in media for the drive if
> you need to} or
>
> 2. when logged into the drive [mounted]
> rm -r -f {the full path} or
>
> 3. if already in the master directory [the one containing the
> sub-directory with the corrupted files, NOT the actual corrupted
> directory],
> rm -r -f {the directory} (this may not work as Linux works from the
> root {/} > up and does provide in-built protections and requirements per
> the various compilations)
>
> -r = recursive
>
> -f = forced with no required input like yes or being required to
> individually choose the directories and files to delete
>
> This MAY [depending upon the Linux used] require you be root or su [or
> sudo, ksudo, or other], e.g., super user. You shouldn't need to chown
> [change ownership] when root or su *IF* you already mounted the drive
> and assigned read, write, execute [777] access [most defaults are *read
> only* for pre-existing partitions/drives and folders/files].
>
> IF you're really interested in Linux then note Wine [Windows emulator]
> has come a long way [which is what I'm using for some of my favorite
> Win9X programs]. And you now have several virtual machine
> implementations to choose from for the Linux environment in which to run
> Windows. Look for an i386 installation for older computers [they will
> upgrade themselves over time to the proper processor [like i586, or
> i686], or choose an i586, [Celeron, P1, P2, P3] or i686, or _64 [dual
> core and above] compilation if you have a newer processor.

I found a small linux install called bootE Linux, which I think runs
from a floppy. Are you familiar with it? I don't want to install
anything on my C drive. Info about it is here: boot.everywhere.dk

I don't know if I'll have to give myself permission to access the
directory with bootE Linux, but running a cmod command shouldn't be that
hard.

>>
>> i ran a utility like scan disk (system suite) which began renaming the
>> invalid files. but it prompted me for each file and continuing it
>> with 20,000 - 50,000 files was impractical.
>>
>> Perhaps scandisk does it without prompting, but i don't want to tinker
>> until I copy my data.
>
> ScanDisk [and the like - DOS/9X based tools] likely will NOT work and
> may actually be the app that created the issue. It MAY try to rename
> them or create *.chk files [thousands at times], but the possibly
> corrupt FAT entries precludes change [because of the invalid file names
> which can not be changed via DOS and FAT entries which purport to be
> "locking schemes, encryption, and other"] and deletion.

i've not run scandisk becuase i thought it likely to create more
problems. then again, the utilities i did run are similar.
>
>>
>> I have a hex editor, which i used once to undelete some jpgs, but
>> using it with all these files is also not practical.
>>
>> MEB, I agree (putting it into my words here) that it's all Bill Gates'
>> fault. If crashes and outages create invalid files on an o/s the
>> programmers should provide a way to recover.
>>
>> (Along these lines a friend of mine thought it would be possible to
>> write a simple script or program that would parse each character of
>> each filename, and if invalid change it to a random valid one, if
>> valid to to next character, and so on, with some kind of check to
>> prevent duplicate new filennames. If such a program exists, please let
>> us know what it is.)
>
> I have tried many of those that CLAIM to be able to provide those
> functions [I'll not list them as depending upon the corruption SOME may
> provide a bit of use], however, I have found none [Win9X capable] which
> can deal with files which have been converted during recovery attempt or
> other corruption after they have been changed to unrecognisable formats
> now listed in the FAT as having file protection, locks, and other
> aspects after the conversion.
> Running a partitioning tool may sometimes attempt to create a separate
> partition for them [if located in a recently defragged condition], or a
> recovery tool such as TestDisk or HDat2 may think they are from an NT
> file system yet can not locate the proper MFT tables for them.
> WinHex [9X version, such as 12.8] will show them with NT style file
> protections, encrypted files, and other indicators and MAY not be able
> to delete them either [depending upon whether you tried other recovery
> techniques first].

good - something else not to try that could further mess up my system.
>
>>
>> To PCR: I got messages from various disk maintenace programs about
>> invalid file and subfolder names. deltree said directory structure was
>> bad (i assume due to the invalid names). windows error message when
>> folder wouldn't go into recycle bin was usual vague one: "disk could
>> be write protected or in use." (again, thank you bill gates!) Oddly
>> firefox didn't crash, but i renamed the cache folder each time i
>> opened firefox so it created a new cache folder.
>>
>> the disk uitilities returned invalid names like this: a<#$bg d&^
>> a DOS dir command returned names like this: AAAAAAAAB gba
>> some of the files were locked too.
>
> They get "locked" because DOS [the underlying 9X OS] and FAT do not
> know how to handle files in the form now being created by web accessing
> programs, e.g., with spaces, commas, special characters, and other, when
> the controlling program loses access/control or otherwise corruption
> occurs upon/within file entries, like when a scandisk is run from a DOS
> prompt after a crash or automatically.
> My gripe: It isn't that these special characters and MASSIVE page names
> are NEEDED, blame it on ignorant web developers, and some of the coding
> they now use...

interesting, i appreciate your explanations.
>
> Make it easy on yourself, if you have a high speed connection, limit
> caching to 2 to 10 megs MAX [regular plain web page usage; with
> movies/video or the like you may want a hundred or so, though if
> possible use ITS caching rather than the browsers or download first] so
> any corruption becomes easier to clean-up and the controlling app
> [browser, etc.] has less trouble dealing with the files. Most browsers
> and web apps, IMO, have WAY to much allowance for caching in their
> defaults.

I don't remember how big my cache was, but I think it was within those
limits. I'll be sure to check in the future.
>
>>
>> Again, thank you so much everyone for your help and ideas. I'm sad to
>> lose my win98 box this way. It has been an excellent machine for over
>> 12 years.
>>
>> Ellen
>
> Its still a good OS, just needs a little help and support in today's
> world.
>
>

motzie · External Since: Jun 06, 2009 Posts: 2

MEB wrote:
>
> Sorry, forgot to include that it is advisable to check that disk for
> virus and other PRIOR to data recovery. You don't want materials with
> virus included.
> Might also want to check the drive itself (check S.M.A.R.T. and other)
> to see if you are having hard drive failure.
> TestDisk, MHDD, and HDat2 [though I think it now is not free] can check
> drive statistics.
> You may be able to use a Live Linux [depending upon the compilation] to
> check as well. You can use the LiveCD to recover/move files to another
> drive if necessary.
>

I was running up-to-date anti-virus and anti-spyware programs before the
crash as well as a firewall, so I'm pretty sure there are no viruses and
trojans. Good idea about checking the drive, which I'll do when the
data is off. Aside from the slow net connection and one program that
won't load, everything else has been working well.

Thanks again for your help. I'll be back online in a few days, and
will have the time to start moving my data midweek. I won't try to
delete the file with linux until my data is safe and backed up.

Ellen

MEB · External Since: May 14, 2009 Posts: 4

motzie wrote:
> MEB wrote:
>> Ellen wrote:
>>> Thanks for all the creative and practical advice!
>>>
>>> I haven't been able to log on to the newsgroup before now because
>>> deltree effectively took out my net connection. After I ran it, my
>>> dialup internet connection speed was never more than 300 bps, making
>>> it impossible to connect to anything. And after I ran deltree, my
>>> firewall would not load. Now I'm on a friend's pc.
>>
>> Hmm, what the heck did you deltree?
>> I suppose it might be that you had severe corruption elsewhere as
>> well and it was ALL placed into a supposed single folder.
>
> deltree cache
>
> but, it may not have been deltree, as I let some utilites fix some of
> the invalid file names. perhaps this produced some crosslinked files.
> these have slowed my net connection to a crawl in the past. i've always
> fixed that problem using system suit's disk fix module but now system
> suite wants to fix the invalid file names first, so it never got to fix
> other problems. why the program won't load though has never happened.

Yeah, too late, once ANY DOS/9X program [fat based] attempts to fix
the corruption.
It may also have been related to the registry looking for files no
longer existing..

>
>>>
>>> Using linux really appeals to me, MEB. simple, clean, and i remember
>>> erasing dumps on one of my isp's unix shell's with one command. i am
>>> interested in trying it after i move my data to a more stable pc.
>>
>> Right, use the previously mentioned technique [make sure you don't
>> look at the corrupted directory or enter it or it may produce a *hard
>> cache*].
>>
>> Command would look like:
>>
>> 1. rm -r -f {the full drive and path} {look in media for the drive if
>> you need to} or
>>
>> 2. when logged into the drive [mounted]
>> rm -r -f {the full path} or
>>
>> 3. if already in the master directory [the one containing the
>> sub-directory with the corrupted files, NOT the actual corrupted
>> directory],
>> rm -r -f {the directory} (this may not work as Linux works from the
>> root {/} > up and does provide in-built protections and requirements
>> per the various compilations)
>>
>> -r = recursive
>>
>> -f = forced with no required input like yes or being required to
>> individually choose the directories and files to delete
>>
>> This MAY [depending upon the Linux used] require you be root or su
>> [or sudo, ksudo, or other], e.g., super user. You shouldn't need to
>> chown [change ownership] when root or su *IF* you already mounted the
>> drive and assigned read, write, execute [777] access [most defaults
>> are *read only* for pre-existing partitions/drives and folders/files].
>>
>> IF you're really interested in Linux then note Wine [Windows
>> emulator] has come a long way [which is what I'm using for some of my
>> favorite Win9X programs]. And you now have several virtual machine
>> implementations to choose from for the Linux environment in which to
>> run Windows. Look for an i386 installation for older computers [they
>> will upgrade themselves over time to the proper processor [like i586,
>> or i686], or choose an i586, [Celeron, P1, P2, P3] or i686, or _64
>> [dual core and above] compilation if you have a newer processor.
>
> I found a small linux install called bootE Linux, which I think runs
> from a floppy. Are you familiar with it? I don't want to install
> anything on my C drive. Info about it is here: boot.everywhere.dk
>
> I don't know if I'll have to give myself permission to access the
> directory with bootE Linux, but running a cmod command shouldn't be that
> hard.

Hmm, an older kernel [and site - 2003].. not familiar with that
compilation so I can't advise one way or another, though it does purport
to have fat and vFat support compiled in the kernel.

The LiveCD compilations won't install anything to the drive IF you
have enough memory, they use virtual drives. IF you're memory is
limited, then a *temporary* space is used, though cleaned up when
logging off/shutting down.

I hope this works for you, though it may not...
per the other post,, you may have a failing hard drive or other issues.

>
>>>
>>> i ran a utility like scan disk (system suite) which began renaming
>>> the invalid files. but it prompted me for each file and continuing
>>> it with 20,000 - 50,000 files was impractical.
>>>
>>> Perhaps scandisk does it without prompting, but i don't want to
>>> tinker until I copy my data.
>>
>> ScanDisk [and the like - DOS/9X based tools] likely will NOT work and
>> may actually be the app that created the issue. It MAY try to rename
>> them or create *.chk files [thousands at times], but the possibly
>> corrupt FAT entries precludes change [because of the invalid file
>> names which can not be changed via DOS and FAT entries which purport
>> to be "locking schemes, encryption, and other"] and deletion.
>
> i've not run scandisk becuase i thought it likely to create more
> problems. then again, the utilities i did run are similar.

Yeah, they are..

>>
>>>
>>> I have a hex editor, which i used once to undelete some jpgs, but
>>> using it with all these files is also not practical.
>>>
>>> MEB, I agree (putting it into my words here) that it's all Bill
>>> Gates' fault. If crashes and outages create invalid files on an o/s
>>> the programmers should provide a way to recover.
>>>
>>> (Along these lines a friend of mine thought it would be possible to
>>> write a simple script or program that would parse each character of
>>> each filename, and if invalid change it to a random valid one, if
>>> valid to to next character, and so on, with some kind of check to
>>> prevent duplicate new filennames. If such a program exists, please
>>> let us know what it is.)
>>
>> I have tried many of those that CLAIM to be able to provide those
>> functions [I'll not list them as depending upon the corruption SOME
>> may provide a bit of use], however, I have found none [Win9X capable]
>> which can deal with files which have been converted during recovery
>> attempt or other corruption after they have been changed to
>> unrecognisable formats now listed in the FAT as having file
>> protection, locks, and other aspects after the conversion.
>> Running a partitioning tool may sometimes attempt to create a
>> separate partition for them [if located in a recently defragged
>> condition], or a recovery tool such as TestDisk or HDat2 may think
>> they are from an NT file system yet can not locate the proper MFT
>> tables for them.
>> WinHex [9X version, such as 12.8] will show them with NT style file
>> protections, encrypted files, and other indicators and MAY not be able
>> to delete them either [depending upon whether you tried other recovery
>> techniques first].
>
> good - something else not to try that could further mess up my system.
>>
>>>
>>> To PCR: I got messages from various disk maintenace programs about
>>> invalid file and subfolder names. deltree said directory structure
>>> was bad (i assume due to the invalid names). windows error message
>>> when folder wouldn't go into recycle bin was usual vague one: "disk
>>> could be write protected or in use." (again, thank you bill gates!)
>>> Oddly firefox didn't crash, but i renamed the cache folder each time
>>> i opened firefox so it created a new cache folder.
>>>
>>> the disk uitilities returned invalid names like this: a<#$bg d&^
>>> a DOS dir command returned names like this: AAAAAAAAB gba
>>> some of the files were locked too.
>>
>> They get "locked" because DOS [the underlying 9X OS] and FAT do not
>> know how to handle files in the form now being created by web
>> accessing programs, e.g., with spaces, commas, special characters, and
>> other, when the controlling program loses access/control or otherwise
>> corruption occurs upon/within file entries, like when a scandisk is
>> run from a DOS prompt after a crash or automatically.
>> My gripe: It isn't that these special characters and MASSIVE page
>> names are NEEDED, blame it on ignorant web developers, and some of the
>> coding they now use...
>
> interesting, i appreciate your explanations.

It seems to come into play when even the short file name [8.3 format]
get corrupted when the fat is modified by the scanning program to
reflect the supposed name found/created - also containing invalid
characters. I've had the programs recommend over-writing one fat with
the other [which doesn't work] compounding the problem.

Caught immediately, TestDisk MAY have been able to correct the
entries, though my guess is you also have registry issues as well.

>>
>> Make it easy on yourself, if you have a high speed connection, limit
>> caching to 2 to 10 megs MAX [regular plain web page usage; with
>> movies/video or the like you may want a hundred or so, though if
>> possible use ITS caching rather than the browsers or download first]
>> so any corruption becomes easier to clean-up and the controlling app
>> [browser, etc.] has less trouble dealing with the files. Most browsers
>> and web apps, IMO, have WAY to much allowance for caching in their
>> defaults.
>
> I don't remember how big my cache was, but I think it was within those
> limits. I'll be sure to check in the future.

I never really understood WHY so many recommended large caches, even
when phone lines/connections were used [and WHY would you do that with
broad band, to save a few seconds??? {though I suppose if you're paying
by the hour or something..}]. Then again I may be more patient coming
from the era of slow computers (8, 10, 12mhz. - 8088, 8086, V10-V20,
etc..), PAINFULLY SLOW connection speeds (2400 baud) and poor telephone
lines (dang, yet another connection loss, gees, more long distance
charges ...).

>>
>>>
>>> Again, thank you so much everyone for your help and ideas. I'm sad to
>>> lose my win98 box this way. It has been an excellent machine for over
>>> 12 years.
>>>
>>> Ellen
>>
>> Its still a good OS, just needs a little help and support in today's
>> world.
>>
>>

Good luck, let us know how it works out for you.

--
~
--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org/ref/windows-main.htm
Windows Diagnostics, Security, Networking
http://peoplescounsel.org
The *REAL WORLD* of Law, Justice, and Government
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