Daylight Savings Patch

PCR · External Since: Jun 21, 2004 Posts: 5941

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
| My only complaints with the MDGX patch *were*:
|
| The erroneous naming, suggesting that the patch relates directly to
| http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=929120 when it does not (KB929120
| is not a full update, only applies to Western Australia. In fact I
| *think* it's only a W.A applicable patch to the real TZ patch, and
| *only* really useful to WinXP/2K3 users.)

That is confusing, though probably most users will likely not care what
article number is mentioned. However, if MDGX doesn't get article
numbers right, perhaps something else more important is also wrong.
OTOH, article numbers that apply to Win98 are hard to come by these
days. Perhaps MDGX is merely trying to indicate that the thing is meant
to solve for Win98 what those articles are solving for XP/whatever.

| http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=928388 *was* the real TZ patch.
| Both have now been supplanted by KB931836 (which I shall be checking
| on.)
|
| Other than that, I simply wished to provide a backup of the old info
| before adding the new, and mine *replaces* the entire Key rather than
| simply updating the applicable keys, though at first glance, it looks
| as if the new one from MDGX does update every key, not just the
| affected ones. Dunno, need more time than I have today to cross-check.

When Colorado first posted that one, I did check it WOULD do for my time
zone just what TZEdit did do, just as yours would. That's all I know,
except the lit at their site stongly implies it does include a
..script/.inf that does that final step, which tom now throws doubt upon
it's necessity. But he hasn't flatly said he didn't run the MDGX one.

By the way here are my keys for my time zone, & I only ran TZEdit & did
the zone switch in Time/Date Properties...

REGEDIT4

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Time
Zones\Eastern]
"Display"="(GMT-05:00) Eastern Time (US & Canada)"
"Dlt"="Eastern Daylight Time"
"Std"="Eastern Standard Time"
"MapID"="38,39"
"TZI"=hex:2c,01,00,00,00,00,00,00,c4,ff,ff,ff,00,00,0b,00,00,00,01,00,02
,00,00,\
00,00,00,00,00,00,00,03,00,00,00,02,00,02,00,00,00,00,00,00,00

REGEDIT4

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\TimeZoneInformation
]
"ActiveTimeBias"=hex:2c,01,00,00
"StandardName"="Eastern Standard Time"
"DaylightName"="Eastern Daylight Time"
"Bias"=hex:2c,01,00,00
"StandardBias"=hex:00,00,00,00
"DaylightBias"=hex:c4,ff,ff,ff
"StandardStart"=hex:00,00,0b,00,00,00,01,00,02,00,00,00,00,00,00,00
"DaylightStart"=hex:00,00,03,00,00,00,02,00,02,00,00,00,00,00,00,00
"DaylightFlag"=hex:01,00,00,00

Too bad I didn't think to check the second one BEFORE doing the
Date/Time Properties switch forth/back!

| Also, the MDGX patch leaves the XP/2K3 naming convention in place for
| newly created sub-keys. All such have "Standard Time" added to the
| name of the sub-key, whereas in 9x they do not. Example: What is
| named "Pacific" in 9x is named "Pacific Standard Time" in XP.

It also appears to be true of my "Eastern", that "Standard Time" isn't
added to it. However, I can't quite recall that anything was added or
not when I looked at the MDGX data. I do recall the zone dates were the
same for me for sure. I don't still have the download to double check.

| This
| offends my sensibilities, even if it doesn't actually cause any
| problems -- and I don't think it does.

Yea.

| Lastly, I wish to provide a REG file for those who are more
| comfortable with such things, rather than a self-executing INF file.
| I also provide an in-depth discussion of the whole issue, so PCR
| doesn't have to use one of his Master Posts. He can just point to my
| article, <bg>.

It will STILL be a Master Post-- just an unusally short one, is all!

| --
|
| Gary S. Terhune
| MS-MVP Shell/User
|
| "MEB" <meb@not real.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| news:O8OVBFLUHHA.4252@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
|>
|>
|>
|> "PCR" <pcrrcp.DeleteThis@netzero.net> wrote in message
|> news:O$GtUqJUHHA.4276@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
|> | MEB wrote:
|> | | "tom" <tadamsmar.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
|> | | news:1171379226.440834.250850@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
|> | || Anyone had experience with the patch from:
|> | ||
|> | || http://www.mdgx.com/add.htm#TZU
|> | ||
|> | || That is:
|> | ||
|> | || Q931836.exe
|> | ||
|> | || Thanks!
|> | ||
|> | || I have a number of 98 systems and I don't want to do them
|> | || manually if I
|> | || can avoid it.
|> | ||
|> | |
|> | | That happens to be an update to a TZ "fix" that was discussed in
|> | | this forum via several threads.
|> | | To combat, or rather address other potential aspects which may
|> | | be related [or not] Gary Terhune MVP created [or is
|> | | modifying/creating] a TZ file for all versions of Windows, with
|> | | the various issues related to other areas of the world [if I
|> | | remember correctly].
|> | |
|> | | http://www.grystmill.com/articles/tz_update.htm
|> |
|> | Subsequently, Terhune agreed with John John in another thread that
|> | steps (g) though (j) [below] would also have to be done after
|> | running his .reg, but obviously not steps (a) through (h). Looks
|> | like the one from...
|> | http://www.mdgx.com/add.htm#TZU
|> | ...does it's own (g) through (j), though. Terhune had an objection
|> | to that one, though, for another reason.
|>
|> Debatable though, but we respect Terhune soo..
|> <BG>
|>
|> DANG, I saw cquirke rolled through,,, did he stay to chat or was
|> this the immaculate desception... grab him quick before he gets
|> away..
|>
|> |
|> | The following is required to do in the USA only...
|> |
|> | http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=914387
|> | How to configure daylight saving time for the United States in 2007
|> | ......Quote.......
|> | INTRODUCTION
|> | Because of the Energy Policy Act, daylight saving time is extended
|> | by four weeks in 2007. This change starts on the second Sunday of
|> | March and ends on the first Sunday of November.
|> | ......EOQ.........
|> |
|> | The time has come to follow the instructions in that article, or,
|> | perhaps a bit more clear...
|> |
|> | (a) Click TZEDIT.EXE.
|> | It opens with your time zone selected.
|> | (b) Click the Edit button.
|> | (c) Change the Start Day to... Second, Sunday, March.
|> | (d) Change the Last Day to... First, Sunday, November.
|> | (e) Click the OK button.
|> | (f) Click the Close button.
|> | (g) Click Start, point to Settings, point to Control Panel,
|> | and then double-click Date/Time.
|> | (h) Click the Time Zone tab.
|> | (i) Select a different time zone than (the one you are set at),
|> | and then click Apply.
|> | (j) Click (back to the one you were set at), and then click OK.
|> |
|> | "Note Steps i and j are required for the new changes to take
|> | effect", the article says, as does TZEdit's own help screen.
|> |
|> | Do so before March 11, 2007. If you cannot get TZEdit.exe from your
|> | personal copy of the Resource Kit, get it from the above article as
|> | Candlin saw or from...
|> |
|>
ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/services/technet/samples/ps/Win98/Reskit/CONFIG/...,
|> | as Laura Fredericks did discover, after likely 1/2 ton of clicking
|> | (although she denies it).
|> |
|> | | --
|> | | MEB
|> | | _______________
|> |
|> | --
|> | Thanks or Good Luck,
|> | There may be humor in this post, and,
|> | Naturally, you will not sue,
|> | Should things get worse after this,
|> | PCR
|> | pcrrcp.DeleteThis@netzero.net
|> |
|> |
|>
|> --
|> MEB
|> http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/
|> BLOG - http://peoplescounsel.spaces.live.com/ Public Notice or the
|> "real world"
|> http://groups.google.com/group/the-peoples-law?hl=en - discussion
|> group for
|> general aspects of Law verses the Peoples' of the world
|>
|> "Most people, sometime in their lives, stumble across truth.
|> Most jump up, brush themselves off, and hurry on about their
|> business as if
|> nothing had happen." Winston Churchill
|> Or to put it another way:
|> Morpheus can offer you the two pills;
|> but only you can choose whether you take the red pill or the blue
|> one. _______________

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR
pcrrcp.DeleteThis@netzero.net

PCR · External Since: Jun 21, 2004 Posts: 5941

tom wrote:
| On Feb 15, 10:40 pm, "PCR" <pcr... DeleteThis @netzero.net> wrote:
|> tom wrote:
|>
|> | On Feb 14, 7:44 pm, "PCR" <pcr... DeleteThis @netzero.net> wrote:|> MEB wrote:
|>
|> |> | "tom" <tadams... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
|> |>
|> |> |news:1171379226.440834.250850@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
|> |> || Anyone had experience with the patch from:
|> |> ||
|> |> ||http://www.mdgx.com/add.htm#TZU
|> |> ||
|> |> || That is:
|> |> ||
|> |> || Q931836.exe
|> |> ||
|> |> || Thanks!
|> |> ||
|> |> || I have a number of 98 systems and I don't want to do them
|> |> || manually if I
|> |> || can avoid it.
|> |> ||
|> |> |
|> |> | That happens to be an update to a TZ "fix" that was discussed
|> |> | in this forum via several threads.
|> |> | To combat, or rather address other potential aspects which may
|> |> | be related [or not] Gary Terhune MVP created [or is
|> |> | modifying/creating] a TZ file for all versions of Windows, with
|> |> | the various issues related to other areas of the world [if I
|> |> | remember correctly].
|> |> |
|> |> |http://www.grystmill.com/articles/tz_update.htm
|> |>
|> |> Subsequently, Terhune agreed with John John in another thread that
|> |> steps (g) though (j) [below] would also have to be done after
|> |> running his .reg, but obviously not steps (a) through (h). Looks
|> |> like the one from...http://www.mdgx.com/add.htm#TZU
|> |> ...does it's own (g) through (j), though. Terhune had an
|> |> objection to that one, though, for another reason.
|> |
|> | Where are these conversations? I cannot find them when I search
|> | the news groups.
|> |
|> | I did find one where you pointed out that (g) though (j) should be
|> | run, but no reply from Terhune.
|>
|> He may be dangling over the edge of a California earthquake & held up
|> only by by a toe in a Poodle's mouth. However, he DID shout...
|>
|> news:%23dTauDmSHHA.3996@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
|> ......Quote...........
|> Thank you. Forgot to add that info to the instructions.
|> ......EOQ..............
|> ...., when John John brought up the issue.
|>
|> | I tested the grystmill patch without running steps (g) through (j)
|> | and it worked. Tested on 98SE by moving the time forward and
|> | letting it pass through 2 AM on March 11, 2007.
|>
|> But did you run the mdgx.com patch too? That one WILL auto-update the
|> other Registry key from what I can determine reading the site...
|
| No, I did not run the mdgx patch.

That's interesting! I see Terhune has stated he will test the issue. Can
you post the contents of your two keys. Here are mine for "Eastern"...

REGEDIT4

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Time
Zones\Eastern]
"Display"="(GMT-05:00) Eastern Time (US & Canada)"
"Dlt"="Eastern Daylight Time"
"Std"="Eastern Standard Time"
"MapID"="38,39"
"TZI"=hex:2c,01,00,00,00,00,00,00,c4,ff,ff,ff,00,00,0b,00,00,00,01,00,02
,00,00,\
00,00,00,00,00,00,00,03,00,00,00,02,00,02,00,00,00,00,00,00,00

REGEDIT4

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\TimeZoneInformation
]
"ActiveTimeBias"=hex:2c,01,00,00
"StandardName"="Eastern Standard Time"
"DaylightName"="Eastern Daylight Time"
"Bias"=hex:2c,01,00,00
"StandardBias"=hex:00,00,00,00
"DaylightBias"=hex:c4,ff,ff,ff
"StandardStart"=hex:00,00,0b,00,00,00,01,00,02,00,00,00,00,00,00,00
"DaylightStart"=hex:00,00,03,00,00,00,02,00,02,00,00,00,00,00,00,00
"DaylightFlag"=hex:01,00,00,00

Too bad I didn't think to check the second one BEFORE doing the
Date/Time Properties switch forth/back!

Do you see how these correspond to each other? It's possible the second
has an important use other than allowing the time change to occur on the
appropriate date. I wonder too whether something else could have done
the time change for you when you pushed ahead-- something like NistTime,
for instance? Were you online when you did it?

PCR · External Since: Jun 21, 2004 Posts: 5941

John John wrote:
| tom wrote:
|
|> On Feb 15, 3:10 pm, John John <audetw....TakeThisOut@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:
|
|>>As I understand it, on Windows 98 the information is stored in these
|>>2 registry keys:
|>>
|>>HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Time
|>>Zones
|>>
|>>HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\TimeZoneInformati
on
|>>
|>>The first key contains the database for _ALL_ time zones. The second
|>>key contains the information for the time zone _CURRENTLY_ being
|>>used on the computer. The information in this second key was
|>>_COPIED_ from the database information stored in the first key
|>>_WHEN_ the time zone was set. If the information now is different
|>>than when the time zone was set, the information in the second key
|>>has to be refreshed to reflect the changes made in the first key, if
|>>not the time will not change as expected on the new date.
|>
|>
|> Well, I applied Gary's patch to a 98SE system, did not do any extra
|> steps, did not reboot. I set system clock to just before 2AM 3/11/07
|> and let it tick past 2AM. The time changed.
|>
|> My test seems to contradict your assertions as applied to 98SE.
|
| A simple explanation for this, when you reset the clock to just before
| 2AM 3/11/07 you had to click on "Apply" thus reselecting and
| reapplying the Time Zone settings and forcing Windows to copy the new
| TZ information from the database key to the ControlSet key.

That seems to be a likely explanation, yea. (Sheesh, I was thinking
maybe something else did it like one of those online clocks like
NistTime!)

| That
| could easily be confirmed by comparing the contents of the registry
| key in question before and after doing the time change. So, simply
| put, by using the clock settings function you have indeed reset the
| key as instructed by Microsoft, whether you do it via the Control
| Panel or via the Toolbar clock is irrelevant, the end result is that
| you have reset the Time Zone settings. If instead of changing the
| time while in Windows you would have instead changed the time in the
| BIOS then booted to Windows your results would have been different.
| If you deploy (push) the fix to machines on a network asking users to
| readjust their clocks is not, or might not be, a good method to have
| the changes applied. As for home users, many will simply apply fixes
| and not bother or know to verify that the patch works, most don't
| even know what dates to use to check the changes.
|
| John

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR
pcrrcp.TakeThisOut@netzero.net

Bill in Co. · External Since: Apr 24, 2005 Posts: 570

PCR wrote:
> Bill in Co. wrote:
>> PCR wrote:
> ...snip
>>> Those are my sentiments too. It's Colorado who first discovered the
>>> mdgx site, & it's up to him to get bloody with Terhune-- not us!
>>
>> Well, I'm not waiting - I'm done with it already. I did it months
>> ago, and as far as I'm concerned, I'm through, and moving on to more
>> pressing things - like using this new "USB 2.0 External Hard Drive
>> Enclosure" for a perfect partition copy backup of the boot drive
>> (including ALL the directory and file dates!), and, what a joy it is,
>> compared to the previous, tedious, procedure, of having to manually
>> swap in/out the backup IDE hard drive each time!
>
> I've been meaning to ask about that. Did you need to do a separate
> download for the USB 2.0 drivers, or did they come with the device?

They came on the enclosed CD. No download needed. It was recognized
by windows as new hardware, and installed pretty easily.

> Did it install flawlessly & well the first time? Is there any confusion
with
> drive letters when the thing is turned on/off-- does D:\ change to E:\
> for instance? What was the ultimate cost?

Pretty much installed almost flawlessly (I say "almost", because I made the
mistake of leaving my BIOS set to include any USB drives (along with
floppies) in the boot sequence. So it tried to boot first on the
enclosure drive (which I had NOT installed the drivers on!), and since I had
left my backup drive with its partition set as Active in BING, that wasn't
too nice. Smile

My mistake. But having recognized that and fixing
that problem, it went fine.

Cost was around $30 for the USB 2.0 HD enclosure (enclosing the IDE drive).

I leave the USB connector plugged in, but only switch the enclosure drive on
(small power switch, on back of enclosure) when I want to make a backup.
Nothing to connect or disconnect any more!! Oh JOY!! And most of the
time my backup drive is NOT being used, so it has a pretty "unlimited"
lifetime.

The Vantec looks pretty elegant in its style, sitting here on my desk, and
has a nice blue light (in a sleek blue case) for showing disk activity.
The only thing I don't like about it is it's a tight fit getting the drive
in the case, so if someone wanted to remove it and swap in/out another IDE
drive, that wouldn't be too easy. I don't, so it's no biggie.

tom · External Since: Feb 13, 2007 Posts: 14

On Feb 16, 7:55 am, "tom" <tadams... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 15, 10:40 pm, "PCR" <pcr... DeleteThis @netzero.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > tom wrote:
>
> > | On Feb 14, 7:44 pm, "PCR" <pcr... DeleteThis @netzero.net> wrote:|> MEB wrote:
>
> > |> | "tom" <tadams... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > |>
> > |> |news:1171379226.440834.250850@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> > |> || Anyone had experience with the patch from:
> > |> ||
> > |> ||http://www.mdgx.com/add.htm#TZU
> > |> ||
> > |> || That is:
> > |> ||
> > |> || Q931836.exe
> > |> ||
> > |> || Thanks!
> > |> ||
> > |> || I have a number of 98 systems and I don't want to do them
> > |> || manually if I
> > |> || can avoid it.
> > |> ||
> > |> |
> > |> | That happens to be an update to a TZ "fix" that was discussed in
> > |> | this forum via several threads.
> > |> | To combat, or rather address other potential aspects which may be
> > |> | related [or not] Gary Terhune MVP created [or is
> > |> | modifying/creating] a TZ file for all versions of Windows, with
> > |> | the various issues related to other areas of the world [if I
> > |> | remember correctly].
> > |> |
> > |> |http://www.grystmill.com/articles/tz_update.htm
> > |>
> > |> Subsequently, Terhune agreed with John John in another thread that
> > |> steps (g) though (j) [below] would also have to be done after
> > |> running his .reg, but obviously not steps (a) through (h). Looks
> > |> like the one from...http://www.mdgx.com/add.htm#TZU
> > |> ...does it's own (g) through (j), though. Terhune had an objection to
> > |> that one, though, for another reason.
> > |
> > | Where are these conversations? I cannot find them when I search the
> > | news groups.
> > |
> > | I did find one where you pointed out that (g) though (j) should be
> > | run, but no reply from Terhune.
>
> > He may be dangling over the edge of a California earthquake & held up
> > only by by a toe in a Poodle's mouth. However, he DID shout...
>
> >news:%23dTauDmSHHA.3996@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> > ......Quote...........
> > Thank you. Forgot to add that info to the instructions.
> > ......EOQ..............
> > ...., when John John brought up the issue.
>
> > | I tested the grystmill patch without running steps (g) through (j) and
> > | it worked. Tested on 98SE by moving the time forward and letting it
> > | pass through 2 AM on March 11, 2007.
>
> > But did you run the mdgx.com patch too? That one WILL auto-update the
> > other Registry key from what I can determine reading the site...
>
> No, I did not run the mdgx patch.
>
>
>
>
>
> >http://www.mdgx.com/add.htm#TZU
> > ......Quote.........
> > ALL Windows 95, 98 + ME users: at the end of installing this Unofficial
> > DST update you MUST confirm your Time Zone selection: when you see
> > Date/Time Properties you MUST click OK!
> > ......EOQ............
>
> > | So, when does this (g) through (j) issue apply. I have already
> > | applied the patch on a number of systems, I need to know if I should
> > | do the (g) through (j) thing on all systems, some systems, or no
> > | systems.
>
> > If you update the time zone with TZEdit, you must do it. Terhune may be
> > working on a way to have it done automatically like it seems the other
> > site does. Until then, you must do it after running his .reg too.
>
> > |>
> > |> The following is required to do in the USA only...
> > |>
> > |>http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=914387
> > |> How to configure daylight saving time for the United States in 2007
> > |> ......Quote.......
> > |> INTRODUCTION
> > |> Because of the Energy Policy Act, daylight saving time is extended by
> > |> four weeks in 2007. This change starts on the second Sunday of March
> > |> and
> > |> ends on the first Sunday of November.
> > |> ......EOQ.........
> > |>
> > |> The time has come to follow the instructions in that article, or,
> > |> perhaps a bit more clear...
> > |>
> > |> (a) Click TZEDIT.EXE.
> > |> It opens with your time zone selected.
> > |> (b) Click the Edit button.
> > |> (c) Change the Start Day to... Second, Sunday, March.
> > |> (d) Change the Last Day to... First, Sunday, November.
> > |> (e) Click the OK button.
> > |> (f) Click the Close button.
> > |> (g) Click Start, point to Settings, point to Control Panel,
> > |> and then double-click Date/Time.
> > |> (h) Click the Time Zone tab.
> > |> (i) Select a different time zone than (the one you are set at),
> > |> and then click Apply.
> > |> (j) Click (back to the one you were set at), and then click OK.
> > |>
> > |> "Note Steps i and j are required for the new changes to take effect",
> > |> the article says, as does TZEdit's own help screen.
> > |>
> > |> Do so before March 11, 2007. If you cannot get TZEdit.exe from your
> > |> personal copy of the Resource Kit, get it from the above article as
> > |> Candlin saw or
> > |>
> > from...ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/services/technet/samples/ps/Win98/Reskit/
> > CONFIG/...,
> > |> as Laura Fredericks did discover, after likely 1/2 ton of clicking
> > |> (although she denies it).
> > |>
> > |> | --
> > |> | MEB
> > |> |http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/
> > |> | BLOG -http://peoplescounsel.spaces.live.com/PublicNoticeor the
> > |> | "real world"
> > |> |http://groups.google.com/group/the-peoples-law?hl=en-discussion
> > |> | group for general aspects of Law verses the Peoples' of the world
> > |> |
> > |> | "Most people, sometime in their lives, stumble across truth.
> > |> | Most jump up, brush themselves off, and hurry on about their
> > |> | business as if nothing had happen." Winston Churchill
> > |> | Or to put it another way:
> > |> | Morpheus can offer you the two pills;
> > |> | but only you can choose whether you take the red pill or the blue
> > |> | one. _______________
> > |>
> > |> --
> > |> Thanks or Good Luck,
> > |> There may be humor in this post, and,
> > |> Naturally, you will not sue,
> > |> Should things get worse after this,
> > |> PCR
> > |> pcr... DeleteThis @netzero.net
>
> > --
> > Thanks or Good Luck,
> > There may be humor in this post, and,
> > Naturally, you will not sue,
> > Should things get worse after this,
> > PCR
> > pcr... DeleteThis @netzero.net- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

BTW, I just tested Gary's patch on an ME system. I did have to do
the extra steps to get it to work.

Gary S. Terhune · External Since: Mar 17, 2004 Posts: 4357

The data I use are exports of the XP Registry entries after applying the
update(s). Not sure if MDGX does the same or uses the data from the KB
articles themselves. I suspect the latter. What I *recall* is that after
applying his previous patch, the 9x sub-key names were not changed, only the
newly added ones had "Standard Time" added to the name.

--

Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User

"PCR" <pcrrcp.TakeThisOut@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:%23fhY2HgUHHA.496@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Gary S. Terhune wrote:
>
<snip>

> | Also, the MDGX patch leaves the XP/2K3 naming convention in place for
> | newly created sub-keys. All such have "Standard Time" added to the
> | name of the sub-key, whereas in 9x they do not. Example: What is
> | named "Pacific" in 9x is named "Pacific Standard Time" in XP.
>
> It also appears to be true of my "Eastern", that "Standard Time" isn't
> added to it. However, I can't quite recall that anything was added or
> not when I looked at the MDGX data. I do recall the zone dates were the
> same for me for sure. I don't still have the download to double check.
>
> | This
> | offends my sensibilities, even if it doesn't actually cause any
> | problems -- and I don't think it does.
>
> Yea.

PCR · External Since: Jun 21, 2004 Posts: 5941

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
| The data I use are exports of the XP Registry entries after applying
| the update(s). Not sure if MDGX does the same or uses the data from
| the KB articles themselves. I suspect the latter. What I *recall* is
| that after applying his previous patch, the 9x sub-key names were not
| changed, only the newly added ones had "Standard Time" added to the
| name.

XP keys! Well... still... I... sa, sa, say... looks like you DID
properly decontaminate the one for "Eastern". I am loath to go check the
rest, if even I knew how, or to compare them closely to the MDGX ones or
to articles. Your write-up seemed to be very knowledgeable about the
topic, & I think it is good & safe that you don't include an .inf or
script with it-- although even a .reg can be deadly, I'm sure.

| --
|
| Gary S. Terhune
| MS-MVP Shell/User
|
| "PCR" <pcrrcp RemoveThis @netzero.net> wrote in message
| news:%23fhY2HgUHHA.496@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
|> Gary S. Terhune wrote:
|>
| <snip>
|
|> | Also, the MDGX patch leaves the XP/2K3 naming convention in place
|> | for newly created sub-keys. All such have "Standard Time" added to
|> | the name of the sub-key, whereas in 9x they do not. Example: What
|> | is named "Pacific" in 9x is named "Pacific Standard Time" in XP.
|>
|> It also appears to be true of my "Eastern", that "Standard Time"
|> isn't added to it. However, I can't quite recall that anything was
|> added or not when I looked at the MDGX data. I do recall the zone
|> dates were the same for me for sure. I don't still have the download
|> to double check.
|>
|> | This
|> | offends my sensibilities, even if it doesn't actually cause any
|> | problems -- and I don't think it does.
|>
|> Yea.

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR
pcrrcp RemoveThis @netzero.net

PCR · External Since: Jun 21, 2004 Posts: 5941

Bill in Co. wrote:
| PCR wrote:
|> Bill in Co. wrote:
|>> PCR wrote:
|> ...snip
|>>> Those are my sentiments too. It's Colorado who first discovered the
|>>> mdgx site, & it's up to him to get bloody with Terhune-- not us!
|>>
|>> Well, I'm not waiting - I'm done with it already. I did it months
|>> ago, and as far as I'm concerned, I'm through, and moving on to more
|>> pressing things - like using this new "USB 2.0 External Hard Drive
|>> Enclosure" for a perfect partition copy backup of the boot drive
|>> (including ALL the directory and file dates!), and, what a joy it
|>> is, compared to the previous, tedious, procedure, of having to
|>> manually swap in/out the backup IDE hard drive each time!
|>
|> I've been meaning to ask about that. Did you need to do a separate
|> download for the USB 2.0 drivers, or did they come with the device?
|
| They came on the enclosed CD. No download needed. It was
| recognized by windows as new hardware, and installed pretty easily.

Nice.

|> Did it install flawlessly & well the first time? Is there any
|> confusion with drive letters when the thing is turned on/off-- does
|> D:\ change to E:\ for instance? What was the ultimate cost?
|
| Pretty much installed almost flawlessly (I say "almost", because I
| made the mistake of leaving my BIOS set to include any USB drives
| (along with floppies) in the boot sequence. So it tried to boot
| first on the enclosure drive (which I had NOT installed the drivers
| on!), and since I had left my backup drive with its partition set as
| Active in BING, that wasn't too nice. Smile

My mistake. But
| having recognized that and fixing that problem, it went fine.

Hmmm. My own BIOS in "Boot Order" only mentions...

(a) CD-ROM Drive: Second
(b) Floppy Drive A: First
(c) Hard Drive C: Third

So, I guess I needn't worry! Glad you survived it.

| Cost was around $30 for the USB 2.0 HD enclosure (enclosing the IDE
| drive).

Not bad.

| I leave the USB connector plugged in, but only switch the enclosure
| drive on (small power switch, on back of enclosure) when I want to
| make a backup. Nothing to connect or disconnect any more!! Oh JOY!!
| And most of the time my backup drive is NOT being used, so it has a
| pretty "unlimited" lifetime.

Yea. Sounds good.

| The Vantec looks pretty elegant in its style, sitting here on my
| desk, and has a nice blue light (in a sleek blue case) for showing
| disk activity.

That proves you are overall happy with it, if you think it's beautiful.

| The only thing I don't like about it is it's a tight fit getting the
| drive in the case, so if someone wanted to remove it and swap in/out
| another IDE drive, that wouldn't be too easy. I don't, so it's no
| biggie.

For others, it might be a deal breaker, though. Well, thanks for the
report.

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR
pcrrcp RemoveThis @netzero.net

Bill in Co. · External Since: Apr 24, 2005 Posts: 570

PCR wrote:
> Bill in Co. wrote:
>> PCR wrote:
>>> Bill in Co. wrote:
>>>> PCR wrote:
>>> ...snip
>>>>> Those are my sentiments too. It's Colorado who first discovered the
>>>>> mdgx site, & it's up to him to get bloody with Terhune-- not us!
>>>>
>>>> Well, I'm not waiting - I'm done with it already. I did it months
>>>> ago, and as far as I'm concerned, I'm through, and moving on to more
>>>> pressing things - like using this new "USB 2.0 External Hard Drive
>>>> Enclosure" for a perfect partition copy backup of the boot drive
>>>> (including ALL the directory and file dates!), and, what a joy it
>>>> is, compared to the previous, tedious, procedure, of having to
>>>> manually swap in/out the backup IDE hard drive each time!
>>>
>>> I've been meaning to ask about that. Did you need to do a separate
>>> download for the USB 2.0 drivers, or did they come with the device?
>>
>> They came on the enclosed CD. No download needed. It was
>> recognized by windows as new hardware, and installed pretty easily.
>
> Nice.

I should add, you can also go to their website and download Win98SE drivers
(as I just happened to look there recently), but as I said, you don't need
to do that, since they are on the Vantec CD.

>>> Did it install flawlessly & well the first time? Is there any
>>> confusion with drive letters when the thing is turned on/off-- does
>>> D:\ change to E:\ for instance? What was the ultimate cost?
>>
>> Pretty much installed almost flawlessly (I say "almost", because I
>> made the mistake of leaving my BIOS set to include any USB drives
>> (along with floppies) in the boot sequence. So it tried to boot
>> first on the enclosure drive (which I had NOT installed the drivers
>> on!), and since I had left my backup drive with its partition set as
>> Active in BING, that wasn't too nice. Smile

My mistake. But
>> having recognized that and fixing that problem, it went fine.
>
> Hmmm. My own BIOS in "Boot Order" only mentions...
>
> (a) CD-ROM Drive: Second
> (b) Floppy Drive A: First
> (c) Hard Drive C: Third
>
> So, I guess I needn't worry! Glad you survived it.

In my BIOS bootup options there were also options like ARMD-HDD, for "ATAPI
Removeable Media Drive", which presumably includes the USB external drive
enclosure with the IDE drive inside. Unfortunately, I had forgotten about
that, AND on top of that I had left the Active Partition flag SET on the
enclosure drive, so that wasn't nice! Dumb on my part. Live and Learn.
The way I have my BIOS setup now is like yours.

>> Cost was around $30 for the USB 2.0 HD enclosure (enclosing the IDE
>> drive).
>
> Not bad.

Without shipping, that is. (Or maybe it was $35.00)

>> I leave the USB connector plugged in, but only switch the enclosure
>> drive on (small power switch, on back of enclosure) when I want to
>> make a backup. Nothing to connect or disconnect any more!! Oh JOY!!
>> And most of the time my backup drive is NOT being used, so it has a
>> pretty "unlimited" lifetime.
>
> Yea. Sounds good.
>
>> The Vantec looks pretty elegant in its style, sitting here on my
>> desk, and has a nice blue light (in a sleek blue case) for showing
>> disk activity.
>
> That proves you are overall happy with it, if you think it's beautiful.

Not just me - if you go look at the reviews (like some on Amazon), you'll
see.
Here's a link that I think still works:
http://www.amazon.com/Vantec-NexStar-Mirror-External-Enclosure/dp/tech-data/
B0009HMT9Y/ref=de_a_smtd/103-9574051-1259041

>> The only thing I don't like about it is it's a tight fit getting the
>> drive in the case, so if someone wanted to remove it and swap in/out
>> another IDE drive, that wouldn't be too easy. I don't, so it's no
>> biggie.
>
> For others, it might be a deal breaker, though. Well, thanks for the
> report.

Yes - if one were going to need to remove the enclosure drive fairly often,
there would probably be better choices out there.

I *do*, however, like the fact that the Vantec Nexstar 3 model uses a large
aluminum heat sink for the drive inside its case, and thus does not need a
fan for the enclosed hard drive (and that may be part of the reason for the
tight fit).

Not all USB External HD enclosure models are like this, and especially if it
were an all plastic design (as some models apparently are), one would
probably want a fan to cool the enclosure drive (and some other models have
that). But as for the fan? Thanks, but no thanks - I like mine
noiseless, and it runs cool, anyways.

PCR · External Since: Jun 21, 2004 Posts: 5941

tom wrote:
| On Feb 16, 2:49 pm, "PCR" <pcr... RemoveThis @netzero.net> wrote:
|> tom wrote:
|>
|> | On Feb 15, 10:40 pm, "PCR" <pcr... RemoveThis @netzero.net> wrote:|> tom wrote:
|>
|> |>
|> |> | On Feb 14, 7:44 pm, "PCR" <pcr... RemoveThis @netzero.net> wrote:|> MEB
|> |> | wrote:
|> |>
|> |> |> | "tom" <tadams... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
|> |> |>
|> |> |> |news:1171379226.440834.250850@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
|> |> |> || Anyone had experience with the patch from:
|> |> |> ||
|> |> |> ||http://www.mdgx.com/add.htm#TZU
|> |> |> ||
|> |> |> || That is:
|> |> |> ||
|> |> |> || Q931836.exe
|> |> |> ||
|> |> |> || Thanks!
|> |> |> ||
|> |> |> || I have a number of 98 systems and I don't want to do them
|> |> |> || manually if I
|> |> |> || can avoid it.
|> |> |> ||
|> |> |> |
|> |> |> | That happens to be an update to a TZ "fix" that was
|> |> |> | discussed in this forum via several threads.
|> |> |> | To combat, or rather address other potential aspects which
|> |> |> | may be related [or not] Gary Terhune MVP created [or is
|> |> |> | modifying/creating] a TZ file for all versions of Windows,
|> |> |> | with the various issues related to other areas of the world
|> |> |> | [if I remember correctly].
|> |> |> |
|> |> |> |http://www.grystmill.com/articles/tz_update.htm
|> |> |>
|> |> |> Subsequently, Terhune agreed with John John in another thread
|> |> |> that steps (g) though (j) [below] would also have to be done
|> |> |> after running his .reg, but obviously not steps (a) through
|> |> |> (h). Looks like the one from...http://www.mdgx.com/add.htm#TZU
|> |> |> ...does it's own (g) through (j), though. Terhune had an
|> |> |> objection to that one, though, for another reason.
|> |> |
|> |> | Where are these conversations? I cannot find them when I search
|> |> | the news groups.
|> |> |
|> |> | I did find one where you pointed out that (g) though (j) should
|> |> | be run, but no reply from Terhune.
|> |>
|> |> He may be dangling over the edge of a California earthquake &
|> |> held up only by by a toe in a Poodle's mouth. However, he DID
|> |> shout...
|> |>
|> |>news:%23dTauDmSHHA.3996@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
|> |> ......Quote...........
|> |> Thank you. Forgot to add that info to the instructions.
|> |> ......EOQ..............
|> |> ...., when John John brought up the issue.
|> |>
|> |> | I tested the grystmill patch without running steps (g) through
|> |> | (j) and it worked. Tested on 98SE by moving the time forward
|> |> | and letting it pass through 2 AM on March 11, 2007.
|> |>
|> |> But did you run the mdgx.com patch too? That one WILL auto-update
|> |> the other Registry key from what I can determine reading the
|> |> site...
|> |
|> | No, I did not run the mdgx patch.
|>
|> That's interesting! I see Terhune has stated he will test the issue.
|> Can you post the contents of your two keys. Here are mine for
|> "Eastern"...
|>
|> REGEDIT4
|>
|> [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Time
|> Zones\Eastern]
|> "Display"="(GMT-05:00) Eastern Time (US & Canada)"
|> "Dlt"="Eastern Daylight Time"
|> "Std"="Eastern Standard Time"
|> "MapID"="38,39"
|>
"TZI"=hex:2c,01,00,00,00,00,00,00,c4,ff,ff,ff,00,00,0b,00,00,00,01,00,02
|> ,00,00,\
|> 00,00,00,00,00,00,00,03,00,00,00,02,00,02,00,00,00,00,00,00,00
|>
|> REGEDIT4
|>
|>
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\TimeZoneInformation
|> ]
|> "ActiveTimeBias"=hex:2c,01,00,00
|> "StandardName"="Eastern Standard Time"
|> "DaylightName"="Eastern Daylight Time"
|> "Bias"=hex:2c,01,00,00
|> "StandardBias"=hex:00,00,00,00
|> "DaylightBias"=hex:c4,ff,ff,ff
|> "StandardStart"=hex:00,00,0b,00,00,00,01,00,02,00,00,00,00,00,00,00
|> "DaylightStart"=hex:00,00,03,00,00,00,02,00,02,00,00,00,00,00,00,00
|> "DaylightFlag"=hex:01,00,00,00
|>
|> Too bad I didn't think to check the second one BEFORE doing the
|> Date/Time Properties switch forth/back!
|>
|> Do you see how these correspond to each other? It's possible the
|> second has an important use other than allowing the time change to
|> occur on the appropriate date. I wonder too whether something else
|> could have done the time change for you when you pushed ahead--
|> something like NistTime, for instance? Were you online when you did
|> it?
|
| I will be happy to check them, but how do I do it? I have never used
| regedit or anything like
| that (or I don't recall ever doing it) I am not exactly a Windows
| guru.

I see you also have posted that on an ME machine you did have to do the
extra step. It may depend upon how you advance the date as to whether
you need to do it. As you may have noticed, John John brilliantly
noticed the same Time/Date Properties requestor (in Win98 at least) is
used to advance the date & to select a time zone. Although it is true
you did not report you used that requestor to it, nor that you switched
from & back to your own zone-- IF you did use it, likely changing the
date & time caused the new info to be saved too.

It could also be that the old setting in that Registry key was passed
too when you advanced the date, even if done in DOS-- and I guess that
still would cause the switch to EST.

But my other thought of NisTime or such doing it probably is very wrong!
It would instead get you back to the correct time & date-- or just
explode from the effort!

Be careful in the Registry. Don't make any changes. But, to look at
those keys...

"START button, Run, RegEdit", & navigate to...

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\TimeZoneInformation

That is,
(a) Click plus signs, beginning left of "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE",
& ending left of "Control".

(b) Click "TimeZoneInformation" in the left pane.
It should now show its data in the right pane.

(c) "Registry Menu, Export Registry File"
The key (& any subkeys) will write to a file of your choice--
with a ".reg" extension.

(d) Scroll the left pane back up, & do the same for...

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Time
Zones\Eastern

NOTE: The last plus sign you click is left of "Time Zones".
Then, click your own zone under it, which I think may
be...
"Pacific Time (US & Canada); Tijuana"

Here is more to know about a ".reg" file...

By default, when a ".reg" is clicked, it will Merge into the Registry.
To alter the default behavior...

(a) "START button, Settings, Folder Options, File Types tab".
(b) Scroll to & click (highlight) "Registration Entries".
(c) Click the "Edit" button.
(d) Select (highlight) "Edit" in the window.
(e) Click the "Set Default" button.

After that, when you click a ".reg" file, it will open in Notepad for
examination. To merge it into the Registry, R-Clk it & select "Merge".

PCR · External Since: Jun 21, 2004 Posts: 5941

Bill in Co. wrote:
| PCR wrote:
|> Bill in Co. wrote:
|>> PCR wrote:
|>>> Bill in Co. wrote:
|>>>> PCR wrote:
|>>> ...snip
|>>>>> Those are my sentiments too. It's Colorado who first discovered
|>>>>> the mdgx site, & it's up to him to get bloody with Terhune-- not
|>>>>> us!
|>>>>
|>>>> Well, I'm not waiting - I'm done with it already. I did it
|>>>> months ago, and as far as I'm concerned, I'm through, and moving
|>>>> on to more pressing things - like using this new "USB 2.0
|>>>> External Hard Drive Enclosure" for a perfect partition copy
|>>>> backup of the boot drive (including ALL the directory and file
|>>>> dates!), and, what a joy it is, compared to the previous,
|>>>> tedious, procedure, of having to manually swap in/out the backup
|>>>> IDE hard drive each time!
|>>>
|>>> I've been meaning to ask about that. Did you need to do a separate
|>>> download for the USB 2.0 drivers, or did they come with the device?
|>>
|>> They came on the enclosed CD. No download needed. It was
|>> recognized by windows as new hardware, and installed pretty easily.
|>
|> Nice.
|
| I should add, you can also go to their website and download Win98SE
| drivers (as I just happened to look there recently), but as I said,
| you don't need to do that, since they are on the Vantec CD.
|
|>>> Did it install flawlessly & well the first time? Is there any
|>>> confusion with drive letters when the thing is turned on/off-- does
|>>> D:\ change to E:\ for instance? What was the ultimate cost?
|>>
|>> Pretty much installed almost flawlessly (I say "almost", because I
|>> made the mistake of leaving my BIOS set to include any USB drives
|>> (along with floppies) in the boot sequence. So it tried to boot
|>> first on the enclosure drive (which I had NOT installed the drivers
|>> on!), and since I had left my backup drive with its partition set as
|>> Active in BING, that wasn't too nice. Smile

My mistake. But
|>> having recognized that and fixing that problem, it went fine.
|>
|> Hmmm. My own BIOS in "Boot Order" only mentions...
|>
|> (a) CD-ROM Drive: Second
|> (b) Floppy Drive A: First
|> (c) Hard Drive C: Third
|>
|> So, I guess I needn't worry! Glad you survived it.
|
| In my BIOS bootup options there were also options like ARMD-HDD, for
| "ATAPI Removeable Media Drive", which presumably includes the USB
| external drive enclosure with the IDE drive inside. Unfortunately,
| I had forgotten about that, AND on top of that I had left the Active
| Partition flag SET on the enclosure drive, so that wasn't nice!
| Dumb on my part. Live and Learn. The way I have my BIOS setup now
| is like yours.

I've actually seen "Hard Drive C" drop OFF my boot order screen, when I
removed the hard drive & plugged it into a Maxtor/Promise Ultra 100 ATA
Adapter Card. Could be, who knows, something will pop onto it, if/when I
plug in a USB Enclosure with an HDD on it-- BUT the one in the Adapter
sure did not! Anyhow, I wouldn't necessarily want to boot it, but would
only do what you have done-- instead/in addition to of my current always
connected backup HDD inside the box.

|>> Cost was around $30 for the USB 2.0 HD enclosure (enclosing the IDE
|>> drive).
|>
|> Not bad.
|
| Without shipping, that is. (Or maybe it was $35.00)

Getting worse, but still acceptable.

|>> I leave the USB connector plugged in, but only switch the enclosure
|>> drive on (small power switch, on back of enclosure) when I want to
|>> make a backup. Nothing to connect or disconnect any more!! Oh
|>> JOY!! And most of the time my backup drive is NOT being used, so it
|>> has a pretty "unlimited" lifetime.
|>
|> Yea. Sounds good.
|>
|>> The Vantec looks pretty elegant in its style, sitting here on my
|>> desk, and has a nice blue light (in a sleek blue case) for showing
|>> disk activity.
|>
|> That proves you are overall happy with it, if you think it's
|> beautiful.
|
| Not just me - if you go look at the reviews (like some on Amazon),
| you'll see.
| Here's a link that I think still works:
|
http://www.amazon.com/Vantec-NexStar-Mirror-External-Enclosure/dp/tech-data/
| B0009HMT9Y/ref=de_a_smtd/103-9574051-1259041

That does look good all in blue, Colorado. But all my USB ports are on
the floor, & I hope I never step on the thing!

|>> The only thing I don't like about it is it's a tight fit getting the
|>> drive in the case, so if someone wanted to remove it and swap in/out
|>> another IDE drive, that wouldn't be too easy. I don't, so it's no
|>> biggie.
|>
|> For others, it might be a deal breaker, though. Well, thanks for the
|> report.
|
| Yes - if one were going to need to remove the enclosure drive fairly
| often, there would probably be better choices out there.

I will look research the options when the time comes, BUT at least I
know the Vantec likely will work-- & with BING too!

| I *do*, however, like the fact that the Vantec Nexstar 3 model uses a
| large aluminum heat sink for the drive inside its case, and thus does
| not need a fan for the enclosed hard drive (and that may be part of
| the reason for the tight fit).

That's a good tradeoff, I guess. It doesn't scald your hands like
Blanton's do? But maybe you're not runnong it long, too.

| Not all USB External HD enclosure models are like this, and
| especially if it were an all plastic design (as some models
| apparently are), one would probably want a fan to cool the enclosure
| drive (and some other models have that). But as for the fan?
| Thanks, but no thanks - I like mine noiseless, and it runs cool,
| anyways.

That sounds reasonable to me, & I'll keep it in mind for sure. Thanks.

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR
pcrrcp RemoveThis @netzero.net

PCR · External Since: Jun 21, 2004 Posts: 5941

Bill in Co. wrote:
| PCR wrote:

You didn't answer...

|>>> Is there any
|>>> confusion with drive letters when the thing is turned on/off-- does
|>>> D:\ change to E:\ for instance?

I'm thinking strange things could happen to drive letters doing as you
do, by the rules of...

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=51978
Order in Which MS-DOS and Windows Assign Drive Letters

Bill in Co. · External Since: Apr 24, 2005 Posts: 570

PCR wrote:
> Bill in Co. wrote:
>> PCR wrote:
>
> You didn't answer...
>
>>>>> Is there any
>>>>> confusion with drive letters when the thing is turned on/off-- does
>>>>> D:\ change to E:\ for instance?
>
> I'm thinking strange things could happen to drive letters doing as you
> do, by the rules of...
>
> http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=51978
> Order in Which MS-DOS and Windows Assign Drive Letters

When the USB drive is off, as it normally is, I have my normal two internal
hard drives (each having 2 partitions) show up as C:, D:, and E:, F:.

When the USB external HD is turned ON, I get an additional G: and H:., (just
as expected). So the internal IDE drives get enumerated first, followed
by the ATAPI interface one (my USB one), which I believe is standard
procedure.

Incidentally, I've previously made my CD/DVD combo drive to be configured as
K:, and my ZIP drive as Z:, to avoid some of the confusion with changing
drive letters that would otherwise occur.

Bill in Co. · External Since: Apr 24, 2005 Posts: 570

PCR wrote:
> Bill in Co. wrote:
>> PCR wrote:
>>> Bill in Co. wrote:
>>>> PCR wrote:
>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote:
>>>>>> PCR wrote:
>>>>> ...snip
>>>>>>> Those are my sentiments too. It's Colorado who first discovered
>>>>>>> the mdgx site, & it's up to him to get bloody with Terhune-- not
>>>>>>> us!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, I'm not waiting - I'm done with it already. I did it
>>>>>> months ago, and as far as I'm concerned, I'm through, and moving
>>>>>> on to more pressing things - like using this new "USB 2.0
>>>>>> External Hard Drive Enclosure" for a perfect partition copy
>>>>>> backup of the boot drive (including ALL the directory and file
>>>>>> dates!), and, what a joy it is, compared to the previous,
>>>>>> tedious, procedure, of having to manually swap in/out the backup
>>>>>> IDE hard drive each time!
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been meaning to ask about that. Did you need to do a separate
>>>>> download for the USB 2.0 drivers, or did they come with the device?
>>>>
>>>> They came on the enclosed CD. No download needed. It was
>>>> recognized by windows as new hardware, and installed pretty easily.
>>>
>>> Nice.
>>
>> I should add, you can also go to their website and download Win98SE
>> drivers (as I just happened to look there recently), but as I said,
>> you don't need to do that, since they are on the Vantec CD.
>>
>>>>> Did it install flawlessly & well the first time? Is there any
>>>>> confusion with drive letters when the thing is turned on/off-- does
>>>>> D:\ change to E:\ for instance? What was the ultimate cost?
>>>>
>>>> Pretty much installed almost flawlessly (I say "almost", because I
>>>> made the mistake of leaving my BIOS set to include any USB drives
>>>> (along with floppies) in the boot sequence. So it tried to boot
>>>> first on the enclosure drive (which I had NOT installed the drivers
>>>> on!), and since I had left my backup drive with its partition set as
>>>> Active in BING, that wasn't too nice. Smile

My mistake. But
>>>> having recognized that and fixing that problem, it went fine.
>>>
>>> Hmmm. My own BIOS in "Boot Order" only mentions...
>>>
>>> (a) CD-ROM Drive: Second
>>> (b) Floppy Drive A: First
>>> (c) Hard Drive C: Third
>>>
>>> So, I guess I needn't worry! Glad you survived it.
>>
>> In my BIOS bootup options there were also options like ARMD-HDD, for
>> "ATAPI Removeable Media Drive", which presumably includes the USB
>> external drive enclosure with the IDE drive inside. Unfortunately,
>> I had forgotten about that, AND on top of that I had left the Active
>> Partition flag SET on the enclosure drive, so that wasn't nice!
>> Dumb on my part. Live and Learn. The way I have my BIOS setup now
>> is like yours.
>
> I've actually seen "Hard Drive C" drop OFF my boot order screen, when I
> removed the hard drive & plugged it into a Maxtor/Promise Ultra 100 ATA
> Adapter Card. Could be, who knows, something will pop onto it, if/when I
> plug in a USB Enclosure with an HDD on it-- BUT the one in the Adapter
> sure did not! Anyhow, I wouldn't necessarily want to boot it, but would
> only do what you have done-- instead/in addition to of my current always
> connected backup HDD inside the box.
>
>>>> Cost was around $30 for the USB 2.0 HD enclosure (enclosing the IDE
>>>> drive).
>>>
>>> Not bad.
>>
>> Without shipping, that is. (Or maybe it was $35.00)
>
> Getting worse, but still acceptable.
>
>>>> I leave the USB connector plugged in, but only switch the enclosure
>>>> drive on (small power switch, on back of enclosure) when I want to
>>>> make a backup. Nothing to connect or disconnect any more!! Oh
>>>> JOY!! And most of the time my backup drive is NOT being used, so it
>>>> has a pretty "unlimited" lifetime.
>>>
>>> Yea. Sounds good.
>>>
>>>> The Vantec looks pretty elegant in its style, sitting here on my
>>>> desk, and has a nice blue light (in a sleek blue case) for showing
>>>> disk activity.
>>>
>>> That proves you are overall happy with it, if you think it's
>>> beautiful.
>>
>> Not just me - if you go look at the reviews (like some on Amazon),
>> you'll see.
>> Here's a link that I think still works:
>>
>
http://www.amazon.com/Vantec-NexStar-Mirror-External-Enclosure/dp/tech-data/
>> B0009HMT9Y/ref=de_a_smtd/103-9574051-1259041
>
> That does look good all in blue, Colorado. But all my USB ports are on
> the floor, & I hope I never step on the thing!
>
>>>> The only thing I don't like about it is it's a tight fit getting the
>>>> drive in the case, so if someone wanted to remove it and swap in/out
>>>> another IDE drive, that wouldn't be too easy. I don't, so it's no
>>>> biggie.
>>>
>>> For others, it might be a deal breaker, though. Well, thanks for the
>>> report.
>>
>> Yes - if one were going to need to remove the enclosure drive fairly
>> often, there would probably be better choices out there.
>
> I will look research the options when the time comes, BUT at least I
> know the Vantec likely will work-- & with BING too!
>
>> I *do*, however, like the fact that the Vantec Nexstar 3 model uses a
>> large aluminum heat sink for the drive inside its case, and thus does
>> not need a fan for the enclosed hard drive (and that may be part of
>> the reason for the tight fit).
>
> That's a good tradeoff, I guess. It doesn't scald your hands like
> Blanton's do?

No way.

> But maybe you're not runnong it long, too.

Maybe true, if you mean HOURS on end, but I don't think it matters. If it
ain't hot after 45 minutes, it ain't gonna get hot. And it takes 45
minutes to copy my boot (and all program's) main drive partition C:
About 10 GB worth at this point.
Perfect copy, including ALL folder and file dates. Which is the only way
to go (for me) - I depend on the date stamps of folders and files when I
install and modify (or update, or remove) programs and data. Plus I'm
always running SFC to keep tabs on things. And using registry backups as
needed, after testing out various programs (and sometimes their updates,
which I don't like sometimes)

>> Not all USB External HD enclosure models are like this, and
>> especially if it were an all plastic design (as some models
>> apparently are), one would probably want a fan to cool the enclosure
>> drive (and some other models have that). But as for the fan?
>> Thanks, but no thanks - I like mine noiseless, and it runs cool,
>> anyways.
>
> That sounds reasonable to me, & I'll keep it in mind for sure. Thanks.

I've actually just ordered another one, so I can *effortlessly* backup the
other hard drive, which contains my audio and video files (I like to do some
audio restoration on various older music).

Gary S. Terhune · External Since: Mar 17, 2004 Posts: 4357

Could you guys please start a new thread? This one is one I have to pay
attention to for obvious reasons. Your thread drift topic is not.

--

Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here.TakeThisOut@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:OR%23qf9vUHHA.192@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> PCR wrote:
>> Bill in Co. wrote:
>>> PCR wrote:
>>
>> You didn't answer...
>>
>>>>>> Is there any
>>>>>> confusion with drive letters when the thing is turned on/off-- does
>>>>>> D:\ change to E:\ for instance?
>>
>> I'm thinking strange things could happen to drive letters doing as you
>> do, by the rules of...
>>
>> http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=51978
>> Order in Which MS-DOS and Windows Assign Drive Letters
>
> When the USB drive is off, as it normally is, I have my normal two
> internal
> hard drives (each having 2 partitions) show up as C:, D:, and E:, F:.
>
> When the USB external HD is turned ON, I get an additional G: and H:.,
> (just
> as expected). So the internal IDE drives get enumerated first, followed
> by the ATAPI interface one (my USB one), which I believe is standard
> procedure.
>
> Incidentally, I've previously made my CD/DVD combo drive to be configured
> as
> K:, and my ZIP drive as Z:, to avoid some of the confusion with changing
> drive letters that would otherwise occur.
>
>

Bill in Co. · External Since: Apr 24, 2005 Posts: 570

I thought the patch had already been created last year. What's the
problem with the one that was created already from the msdn reference?
Are you trying to reinvent the wheel here Gary? It's done already.
Smile

Gary S. Terhune wrote:
> Could you guys please start a new thread? This one is one I have to pay
> attention to for obvious reasons. Your thread drift topic is not.
>
> --
>
> Gary S. Terhune
> MS-MVP Shell/User
>
> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here DeleteThis @earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:OR%23qf9vUHHA.192@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> PCR wrote:
>>> Bill in Co. wrote:
>>>> PCR wrote:
>>>
>>> You didn't answer...
>>>
>>>>>>> Is there any
>>>>>>> confusion with drive letters when the thing is turned on/off-- does
>>>>>>> D:\ change to E:\ for instance?
>>>
>>> I'm thinking strange things could happen to drive letters doing as you
>>> do, by the rules of...
>>>
>>> http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=51978
>>> Order in Which MS-DOS and Windows Assign Drive Letters
>>
>> When the USB drive is off, as it normally is, I have my normal two
>> internal
>> hard drives (each having 2 partitions) show up as C:, D:, and E:, F:.
>>
>> When the USB external HD is turned ON, I get an additional G: and H:.,
>> (just
>> as expected). So the internal IDE drives get enumerated first,
followed
>> by the ATAPI interface one (my USB one), which I believe is standard
>> procedure.
>>
>> Incidentally, I've previously made my CD/DVD combo drive to be configured
>> as
>> K:, and my ZIP drive as Z:, to avoid some of the confusion with changing
>> drive letters that would otherwise occur.

Gary S. Terhune · External Since: Mar 17, 2004 Posts: 4357

I'm my Dad's son. Can't help but reinvent the wheel every time I think about
it. Like, why does it always have to be round? So f'in' BORING!!!

--

Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here RemoveThis @earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:%23ijpP0xUHHA.3948@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>I thought the patch had already been created last year. What's the
> problem with the one that was created already from the msdn reference?
> Are you trying to reinvent the wheel here Gary? It's done already.
> Smile

>
> Gary S. Terhune wrote:
>> Could you guys please start a new thread? This one is one I have to pay
>> attention to for obvious reasons. Your thread drift topic is not.

PCR · External Since: Jun 21, 2004 Posts: 5941

Bill in Co. wrote:
| PCR wrote:
|> Bill in Co. wrote:
....snip
|>> I *do*, however, like the fact that the Vantec Nexstar 3 model uses
|>> a large aluminum heat sink for the drive inside its case, and thus
|>> does not need a fan for the enclosed hard drive (and that may be
|>> part of the reason for the tight fit).
|>
|> That's a good tradeoff, I guess. It doesn't scald your hands like
|> Blanton's do?
|
| No way.
|
|> But maybe you're not runnong it long, too.
|
| Maybe true, if you mean HOURS on end, but I don't think it matters.
| If it ain't hot after 45 minutes, it ain't gonna get hot. And it
| takes 45 minutes to copy my boot (and all program's) main drive
| partition C:
| About 10 GB worth at this point.

OK. Sounds good as far as heat.

| Perfect copy, including ALL folder and file dates. Which is the
| only way to go (for me) - I depend on the date stamps of folders and
| files when I install and modify (or update, or remove) programs and
| data. Plus I'm always running SFC to keep tabs on things. And
| using registry backups as needed, after testing out various programs
| (and sometimes their updates, which I don't like sometimes)

Uhuh, I remember all that, that you wanted the same date stamps & that
BING provides them. I like it that way too.

|>> Not all USB External HD enclosure models are like this, and
|>> especially if it were an all plastic design (as some models
|>> apparently are), one would probably want a fan to cool the enclosure
|>> drive (and some other models have that). But as for the fan?
|>> Thanks, but no thanks - I like mine noiseless, and it runs cool,
|>> anyways.
|>
|> That sounds reasonable to me, & I'll keep it in mind for sure.
|> Thanks.
|
| I've actually just ordered another one, so I can *effortlessly*
| backup the other hard drive, which contains my audio and video files
| (I like to do some audio restoration on various older music).

Two of them, hmmm. So, now you do wish it were easier to get an HDD
in/out the first? But let's close this portion of the thread to honor
Terhune's request.

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
Should things get worse after this,
PCR
pcrrcp.DeleteThis@netzero.net

Bill in Co. · External Since: Apr 24, 2005 Posts: 570

PCR wrote:
> Bill in Co. wrote:
>> PCR wrote:
>>> Bill in Co. wrote:
> ...snip
>>>> I *do*, however, like the fact that the Vantec Nexstar 3 model uses
>>>> a large aluminum heat sink for the drive inside its case, and thus
>>>> does not need a fan for the enclosed hard drive (and that may be
>>>> part of the reason for the tight fit).
>>>
>>> That's a good tradeoff, I guess. It doesn't scald your hands like
>>> Blanton's do?
>>
>> No way.
>>
>>> But maybe you're not runnong it long, too.
>>
>> Maybe true, if you mean HOURS on end, but I don't think it matters.
>> If it ain't hot after 45 minutes, it ain't gonna get hot. And it
>> takes 45 minutes to copy my boot (and all program's) main drive
>> partition C:
>> About 10 GB worth at this point.
>
> OK. Sounds good as far as heat.
>
>> Perfect copy, including ALL folder and file dates. Which is the
>> only way to go (for me) - I depend on the date stamps of folders and
>> files when I install and modify (or update, or remove) programs and
>> data. Plus I'm always running SFC to keep tabs on things. And
>> using registry backups as needed, after testing out various programs
>> (and sometimes their updates, which I don't like sometimes)
>
> Uhuh, I remember all that, that you wanted the same date stamps & that
> BING provides them. I like it that way too.
>
>>>> Not all USB External HD enclosure models are like this, and
>>>> especially if it were an all plastic design (as some models
>>>> apparently are), one would probably want a fan to cool the enclosure
>>>> drive (and some other models have that). But as for the fan?
>>>> Thanks, but no thanks - I like mine noiseless, and it runs cool,
>>>> anyways.
>>>
>>> That sounds reasonable to me, & I'll keep it in mind for sure.
>>> Thanks.
>>
>> I've actually just ordered another one, so I can *effortlessly*
>> backup the other hard drive, which contains my audio and video files
>> (I like to do some audio restoration on various older music).
>
> Two of them, hmmm. So, now you do wish it were easier to get an HDD
> in/out the first?

Not really all that necessary in my case. Why would I? They are only
backup drives.

PCR · External Since: Jun 21, 2004 Posts: 5941

Bill in Co. wrote:
| PCR wrote:
|> Bill in Co. wrote:
|>> PCR wrote:
|>
|> You didn't answer...
|>
|>>>>> Is there any
|>>>>> confusion with drive letters when the thing is turned on/off--
|>>>>> does D:\ change to E:\ for instance?
|>
|> I'm thinking strange things could happen to drive letters doing as
|> you do, by the rules of...
|>
|> http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=51978
|> Order in Which MS-DOS and Windows Assign Drive Letters
|
| When the USB drive is off, as it normally is, I have my normal two
| internal hard drives (each having 2 partitions) show up as C:, D:,
| and E:, F:.
|
| When the USB external HD is turned ON, I get an additional G: and
| H:., (just as expected). So the internal IDE drives get enumerated
| first, followed by the ATAPI interface one (my USB one), which I
| believe is standard procedure.

I see! That is very good, if it doesn't upset the order of the letters
assigned to the permanent drives. Very good, then. It could be just that
you have a fortunate partition arrangement that would cause the USB
device to enumerate nice as it does, for instance...

HDD0: 1 Primary & 1 Extended
HDD1: Same as that
USB: All Extended

Or it must have something to do with those USB drivers, that they are
last no matter as you suspect. I guess then somehow they follow rule
7...

.....Quote the article.........
7. After all logical drives on the hard disk(s) have been assigned drive
letters, drive letters are assigned to drives installed using DRIVER.SYS
or created using RAMDRIVE.SYS in the order in which the drivers are
loaded in the CONFIG.SYS file. Which drive letters are assigned to which
devices can be influenced by changing the order of the device drivers
or, if necessary, by creating "dummy" drive letters with DRIVER.SYS.
.....EOQ the article.............

| Incidentally, I've previously made my CD/DVD combo drive to be
| configured as K:, and my ZIP drive as Z:, to avoid some of the
| confusion with changing drive letters that would otherwise occur.

Yea. My own CD-R/W is W:\.