DOS prompt

Unknown · External Since: Apr 29, 2007 Posts: 391

You sure do make a lot of erroneous assumptions.
"Stan Brown" <the_stan_brown.RemoveThis@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:MPG.2521eb03717a550198bc59@news.individual.net...
> Sun, 20 Sep 2009 14:53:07 -0700 from Malke <malke.RemoveThis@invalid.invalid>:
>> Because the OP asked if there was a way to get out of Windows and
>> into DOS like you could in Win9x/ME. Unlike you, I *did* answer his
>> question. He apparently can't use the gui and your way won't be
>> useful if that is the case. If you hadn't "conveniently" snipped
>> the rest of my answer, it would be apparent to you.
>>
>> And here it is! Surprise!
>>
>> "If you can't get into Windows proper, you might be able to accomplish
>> your
>> task by booting into Safe Mode Command Prompt. This will give you the
>> command prompt without a gui and you can use XCopy from there."
>
> As I said, you answered the literal words of his question but not
> what the real question actually was. You can't really believe that
> the OP really wanted to reboot, as opposed to opening a command
> window within Windows.
>
> You're a smart guy, and I know you want to be helpful, but I believe
> that exalting form over substance because newbies don't know the
> official vocabulary doesn't help them most effectively.
>
> --
> Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
> http://OakRoadSystems.com
> Shikata ga nai...

Unknown · External Since: Apr 29, 2007 Posts: 391

As you often do?
"Twayne" <nobody.RemoveThis@devnull.spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:ufbM7PuOKHA.3724@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> "N. Miller" <anonymous.RemoveThis@msnews.aosake.net> wrote in message
> news:1omajbhs6jg4m$.dlg@msnews.aosake.net
>> On Sun, 20 Sep 2009 17:10:23 -0400, Stan Brown wrote:
>>
>>> I will never understand why normally helpful people say "there is no
>>> DOS" and then stop, when they know perfectly well that everyone but a
>>> few use "DOS" as a short term for "the command prompt". Is it
>>> technically accurate? no, but neither are lots of short forms of
>>> speech.
>>
>> Like the "hard disc", "power unit", "CPU", and such for the system
>> unit? I don't know that there is a proper term for the "tower", but
>> it is much more than just a "hard disc", "power unit", or "CPU". It
>> is all of those, plus I/O system, all in one box. Which is why
>> "system unit" for that box is as good a term as any.
>>
>> I have a friend who keeps referring to removable media as, "tapes".
>> Matters not whether it is a floppy disc, CD, or DVD. It goes into a
>> slot in the system unit, much as an old eight-track, so, to her, it
>> is a, "tape".
>>
>> But it is hard for us geeks to understand what they mean, more often
>> than not. There is a reason for techno-jargon.
>
> But their meaning is often in their content and context if one bothers to
> pay attention rather than showing off.
>

Unknown · External Since: Apr 29, 2007 Posts: 391

You mean 'continue to assume' what the are trying to say?
"Stan Brown" <the_stan_brown RemoveThis @fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:MPG.2521ebc1386d980698bc5a@news.individual.net...
> Mon, 21 Sep 2009 07:09:30 -0700 from Ken Blake, MVP
> <kblake RemoveThis @this.is.an.invalid.domain>:
>> Richard, I completely agree with everything you say. But I also agree
>> with what I think was Stan's main point. He said "people say 'there is
>> no DOS' and then stop." It's the "...and then stop" that I think he
>> was driving at, since if all you say is "there is no DOS," you are not
>> really helping the person to do what he wants to accomplish.
>
> Bingo.
>
> If we're here to be helpful, then it is important not to punish
> people for not phrasing their questions with perfect vocabulary, but
> rather to look behind the form of words at what they are actually
> trying to do.
>
> --
> Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
> http://OakRoadSystems.com
> Shikata ga nai...

Jim · External Since: Jan 11, 2009 Posts: 72

On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 20:57:30 -0400, Stan Brown
<the_stan_brown RemoveThis @fastmail.fm> wrote:

>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 14:53:07 -0700 from Malke <malke RemoveThis @invalid.invalid>:
>> Because the OP asked if there was a way to get out of Windows and
>> into DOS like you could in Win9x/ME. Unlike you, I *did* answer his
>> question. He apparently can't use the gui and your way won't be
>> useful if that is the case. If you hadn't "conveniently" snipped
>> the rest of my answer, it would be apparent to you.
>>
>> And here it is! Surprise!
>>
>> "If you can't get into Windows proper, you might be able to accomplish your
>> task by booting into Safe Mode Command Prompt. This will give you the
>> command prompt without a gui and you can use XCopy from there."
>
>As I said, you answered the literal words of his question but not
>what the real question actually was. You can't really believe that
>the OP really wanted to reboot, as opposed to opening a command
>window within Windows.
>
>You're a smart guy, and I know you want to be helpful, but I believe
>that exalting form over substance because newbies don't know the
>official vocabulary doesn't help them most effectively.

Malke is a lady .
Stan Brown - <plonk >

sandy58 · External Since: Feb 09, 2009 Posts: 16

On Sep 21, 6:48 pm, "Twayne" <nob....RemoveThis@devnull.spamcop.net> wrote:
> "Stan Brown" <the_stan_br....RemoveThis@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
>
> news:MPG.2520644ac73d76e698bc53@news.individual.net
>
>
>
> > Sun, 20 Sep 2009 08:53:41 -0700 from Malke <ma....RemoveThis@invalid.invalid>:
>
> >> navnah wrote:
>
> >>> How do you leave windows to return to DOS prompt? I need to use DOS
> >>> XCOPY command to back up damaged files.
>
> >> There is no DOS in Windows XP so you can't do this as you could in
> >> Win9x/ME.
>
> > Or, to answer what the OP really wants to know, click
> > Start | Programs | Accessories | Command prompt.
>
> > If it's not there, click Start | Run and enter this command
> > cmd /k
> > then click OK
>
> > I will never understand why normally helpful people say "there is no
> > DOS" and then stop, when they know perfectly well that everyone but a
> > few use "DOS" as a short term for "the command prompt". Is it
> > technically accurate? no, but neither are lots of short forms of
> > speech.
>
> Actually, Microsoft describes the Command Prompt as a DOS window too, in
> so many places one could never count them. It's even in the Help &
> Support area on your own computer. The proper definition is that XP is
> not BUILT ON TOP OF DOS as other windws versions were and thus is not
> DOS based as other windows versions were. It does in fact still have a
> DOS window, found in the Command Prompt, and today it is much more than
> a simple DOS emulator since it has many many more possible commands at
> the user's disposal.
> Purists such as you encountered are silly and nonsensical beings in
> that they have no wish to help the OP but rather only wish to show their
> own egoes to the world. Who cares?

You tell them, Twayne. DOS works with XP. If I can move stuff around,
get rid of files etc that won't move in Windows, et al......I have
DOS!!!! Pseudo or whatever the so-called MS fundi's want to call
it.......it's freakin' DOS!! Just because MS used the story as a sales
pitch (people were scared of DOS) "Windows XP has no DOS" these afore-
mentioned fundis use the same dogma, "No such thing as DOS in....."
till they begin to actually believe their chant.

Twayne · External Since: Jan 08, 2009 Posts: 185

"sandy58" <aleckie68.DeleteThis@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:e636630f-a397-46b9-887a-b0a823436f21@g1g2000vbr.googlegroups.com
> On Sep 21, 6:48 pm, "Twayne" <nob....DeleteThis@devnull.spamcop.net> wrote:
>> "Stan Brown" <the_stan_br....DeleteThis@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
>>
>> news:MPG.2520644ac73d76e698bc53@news.individual.net
>>
>>
>>
>>> Sun, 20 Sep 2009 08:53:41 -0700 from Malke <ma....DeleteThis@invalid.invalid>:
>>
>>>> navnah wrote:
>>
>>>>> How do you leave windows to return to DOS prompt? I need to use
>>>>> DOS XCOPY command to back up damaged files.
>>
>>>> There is no DOS in Windows XP so you can't do this as you could in
>>>> Win9x/ME.
>>
>>> Or, to answer what the OP really wants to know, click
>>> Start | Programs | Accessories | Command prompt.
>>
>>> If it's not there, click Start | Run and enter this command
>>> cmd /k
>>> then click OK
>>
>>> I will never understand why normally helpful people say "there is no
>>> DOS" and then stop, when they know perfectly well that everyone but
>>> a few use "DOS" as a short term for "the command prompt". Is it
>>> technically accurate? no, but neither are lots of short forms of
>>> speech.
>>
>> Actually, Microsoft describes the Command Prompt as a DOS window
>> too, in so many places one could never count them. It's even in the
>> Help & Support area on your own computer. The proper definition is
>> that XP is not BUILT ON TOP OF DOS as other windws versions were and
>> thus is not DOS based as other windows versions were. It does in
>> fact still have a DOS window, found in the Command Prompt, and today
>> it is much more than a simple DOS emulator since it has many many
>> more possible commands at the user's disposal.
>> Purists such as you encountered are silly and nonsensical beings in
>> that they have no wish to help the OP but rather only wish to show
>> their own egoes to the world. Who cares?
>
> You tell them, Twayne. DOS works with XP. If I can move stuff around,
> get rid of files etc that won't move in Windows, et al......I have
> DOS!!!! Pseudo or whatever the so-called MS fundi's want to call
> it.......it's freakin' DOS!! Just because MS used the story as a sales
> pitch (people were scared of DOS) "Windows XP has no DOS" these afore-
> mentioned fundis use the same dogma, "No such thing as DOS in....."
> till they begin to actually believe their chant.

No, I'm afraid I can't abide by that. DOS = Disk Operating System.
Windows used to work through the Disk Operating System. It still does,
but the term "Disk Operating System" is no longer relevent in XP because
the Disk Operating System meant by "DOS" doesn't exits. The "DOS" in
that case becomes something else since that operating system doesn't
exist in XP.
What DOES happen though, is that XP will run most, not all, DOS
COMMANDS such as copy, paste, del, rd, md, etc. etc.. So since it's not
an "operating system" it isn't called DOS but was instead designated as
the Command Prompt.
Not only that, but the Command Prompt, although it includes a subset
of the old DOS commands, has many more added functions and commands than
DOS ever thought of having. A list of the possible commands is actually
a very long list; longer than the old DOS commands were.
OTOH, a command window can still, by Microsoft's reasoning, be called
a DOS prompt because it is for exactly the same presentation and
purpose. You might say that the command prompt window is a DOS window
when you use it to issue DOS commands, otherwise it's a Command Prompt
Window, for issuing any of the full set of possible commands, which
simply includes a bunch of the former DOS comands and a lot more.

Now, to the purists, to say there is no Disk Operating System can be
argued to be silly, that no computer today would function without an
operating system to support the disks, or a disk operating system.
These things can be argued inifitely.
Then you get the egotists and narcissists who simply say "there is no
DOS in XP" or something similar, and then, having spouted their slime,
completely ignore the poster's real question. They had no intent other
than to say "XP doesn't have DOS" and helping anyone was the farthest
thing from their minds. Their interpersonal skills are less than
minimal and their interest in being helpful runs a close race to it.

I might myself comment that there is no real DOS in XP, but it's done as
an aside and without malice, never in a condescending manner and just to
give them a sort of basis for further discussions. And to avoid the
E&Ns of course. If someone says "DOS window", everyone knows that they
mean, and actually it's a perfectly valid term if it's used in the
context of giving DOS commands.
So in essence, I agree with you although the MSDOS Operating System
isn't what's being referred to; plain Disk Operating System is what DOS
means, and that's all.

Oh well; it's been a long day<g>.

HTH,

Twayne`

Steve Hayes · External Since: Jun 09, 2005 Posts: 16

On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 15:30:33 -0700 (PDT), sandy58 <aleckie68 DeleteThis @googlemail.com>
wrote:

>On Sep 21, 6:48 pm, "Twayne" <nob... DeleteThis @devnull.spamcop.net> wrote:
>> "Stan Brown" <the_stan_br... DeleteThis @fastmail.fm> wrote in message
>>
>> news:MPG.2520644ac73d76e698bc53@news.individual.net
>>
>>
>>
>> > Sun, 20 Sep 2009 08:53:41 -0700 from Malke <ma... DeleteThis @invalid.invalid>:
>>
>> >> navnah wrote:
>>
>> >>> How do you leave windows to return to DOS prompt? I need to use DOS
>> >>> XCOPY command to back up damaged files.
>>
>> >> There is no DOS in Windows XP so you can't do this as you could in
>> >> Win9x/ME.
>>
>> > Or, to answer what the OP really wants to know, click
>> > Start | Programs | Accessories | Command prompt.
>>
>> > If it's not there, click Start | Run and enter this command
>> > cmd /k
>> > then click OK
>>
>> > I will never understand why normally helpful people say "there is no
>> > DOS" and then stop, when they know perfectly well that everyone but a
>> > few use "DOS" as a short term for "the command prompt". Is it
>> > technically accurate? no, but neither are lots of short forms of
>> > speech.
>>
>> Actually, Microsoft describes the Command Prompt as a DOS window too, in
>> so many places one could never count them. It's even in the Help &
>> Support area on your own computer. The proper definition is that XP is
>> not BUILT ON TOP OF DOS as other windws versions were and thus is not
>> DOS based as other windows versions were. It does in fact still have a
>> DOS window, found in the Command Prompt, and today it is much more than
>> a simple DOS emulator since it has many many more possible commands at
>> the user's disposal.
>> Purists such as you encountered are silly and nonsensical beings in
>> that they have no wish to help the OP but rather only wish to show their
>> own egoes to the world. Who cares?
>
>You tell them, Twayne. DOS works with XP. If I can move stuff around,
>get rid of files etc that won't move in Windows, et al......I have
>DOS!!!! Pseudo or whatever the so-called MS fundi's want to call
>it.......it's freakin' DOS!! Just because MS used the story as a sales
>pitch (people were scared of DOS) "Windows XP has no DOS" these afore-
>mentioned fundis use the same dogma, "No such thing as DOS in....."
>till they begin to actually believe their chant.

DOS stands of "disk operating system".

If your computer has no disks or discs, then no DOS is needed.

But when you see the C:\> prompt (or the A:\> or B:\> or D:\> prompt) you can
then give commands to the disk operating system to perform functions like
copying files from one disk to another, or from one place on a disk to another
place on the same disk, or from a disk to a disk, or to a virtual drive like a
flash drive.

How those commands are carried out depends on the overall operating system.
Windows 98 and below were GUIs that ran on top of an operating system called
MS DOS. Later versions of Windows are operating systems in their own right,
but when you give commands like xcopy at the command promps, you are still
giving commands to the disk operating system to perform operations on the
disks, which is what the original poster wanted to do.

So all the pedantic twaddle to avoid answering the question is just a waste of
space.

Copying files is a Disk Operation, and therefore it is a function of the DOS,
whether that DOS is built in to Windows or whether Windows is a GUI running on
top of it.

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

edfair · External Since: Sep 22, 2009 Posts: 1

Original post requested command line to be able to run xcopy.

To get to command line:
start > run > cmd
or
start > run > command
or
start > programs > accessories > command line
or
the reboot and selective startup to command line using [F8]

any of which might allow the xcopy to work as OP wants it to.

Hodges · External Since: Sep 08, 2009 Posts: 10

On Sep 22, 6:30 pm, sandy58 <alecki....DeleteThis@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 21, 6:48 pm, "Twayne" <nob....DeleteThis@devnull.spamcop.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Stan Brown" <the_stan_br....DeleteThis@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
>
> >news:MPG.2520644ac73d76e698bc53@news.individual.net
>
> > > Sun, 20 Sep 2009 08:53:41 -0700 from Malke <ma....DeleteThis@invalid.invalid>:
>
> > >> navnah wrote:
>
> > >>> How do you leave windows to return to DOS prompt? I need to use DOS
> > >>> XCOPY command to back up damaged files.
>
> > >> There is no DOS in Windows XP so you can't do this as you could in
> > >> Win9x/ME.
>
> > > Or, to answer what the OP really wants to know, click
> > > Start | Programs | Accessories | Command prompt.
>
> > > If it's not there, click Start | Run and enter this command
> > > cmd /k
> > > then click OK
>
> > > I will never understand why normally helpful people say "there is no
> > > DOS" and then stop, when they know perfectly well that everyone but a
> > > few use "DOS" as a short term for "the command prompt". Is it
> > > technically accurate? no, but neither are lots of short forms of
> > > speech.
>
> > Actually, Microsoft describes the Command Prompt as a DOS window too, in
> > so many places one could never count them. It's even in the Help &
> > Support area on your own computer. The proper definition is that XP is
> > not BUILT ON TOP OF DOS as other windws versions were and thus is not
> > DOS based as other windows versions were. It does in fact still have a
> > DOS window, found in the Command Prompt, and today it is much more than
> > a simple DOS emulator since it has many many more possible commands at
> > the user's disposal.
> > Purists such as you encountered are silly and nonsensical beings in
> > that they have no wish to help the OP but rather only wish to show their
> > own egoes to the world. Who cares?
>
> You tell them, Twayne. DOS works with XP. If I can move stuff around,
> get rid of files etc that won't move in Windows, et al......I have
> DOS!!!! Pseudo or whatever the so-called MS fundi's want to call
> it.......it's freakin' DOS!! Just because MS used the story as a sales
> pitch (people were scared of DOS) "Windows XP has no DOS" these afore-
> mentioned fundis use the same dogma, "No such thing as DOS in....."
> till they begin to actually believe their chant.

DOS does not work with XP and cannot read NTFS volumes without 3rd-
party applications such as NTFS4DOS. The command prompt is not the
DOS operating system just because it is a command-line interpreter.
This isn't just arguing semantics here, it really is NOT the same as
DOS. It isn't even an emulator. DOS is 16-bit, programs that run
under Windows XP's command line are 32-bit.

By your logic, Windows 95 is the same as XP in the Windows Classic
theme because they look similar.

Calling the command-line interpreter "DOS" is just as ignorant as
calling a computer tower or monitor the CPU.

Hodges · External Since: Sep 08, 2009 Posts: 10

On Sep 22, 9:37 pm, Steve Hayes <hayesm....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 15:30:33 -0700 (PDT), sandy58 <alecki....TakeThisOut@googlemail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Sep 21, 6:48 pm, "Twayne" <nob....TakeThisOut@devnull.spamcop.net> wrote:
> >> "Stan Brown" <the_stan_br....TakeThisOut@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
>
> >>news:MPG.2520644ac73d76e698bc53@news.individual.net
>
> >> > Sun, 20 Sep 2009 08:53:41 -0700 from Malke <ma....TakeThisOut@invalid.invalid>:
>
> >> >> navnah wrote:
>
> >> >>> How do you leave windows to return to DOS prompt? I need to use DOS
> >> >>> XCOPY command to back up damaged files.
>
> >> >> There is no DOS in Windows XP so you can't do this as you could in
> >> >> Win9x/ME.
>
> >> > Or, to answer what the OP really wants to know, click
> >> > Start | Programs | Accessories | Command prompt.
>
> >> > If it's not there, click Start | Run and enter this command
> >> > cmd /k
> >> > then click OK
>
> >> > I will never understand why normally helpful people say "there is no
> >> > DOS" and then stop, when they know perfectly well that everyone but a
> >> > few use "DOS" as a short term for "the command prompt". Is it
> >> > technically accurate? no, but neither are lots of short forms of
> >> > speech.
>
> >> Actually, Microsoft describes the Command Prompt as a DOS window too, in
> >> so many places one could never count them. It's even in the Help &
> >> Support area on your own computer. The proper definition is that XP is
> >> not BUILT ON TOP OF DOS as other windws versions were and thus is not
> >> DOS based as other windows versions were. It does in fact still have a
> >> DOS window, found in the Command Prompt, and today it is much more than
> >> a simple DOS emulator since it has many many more possible commands at
> >> the user's disposal.
> >> Purists such as you encountered are silly and nonsensical beings in
> >> that they have no wish to help the OP but rather only wish to show their
> >> own egoes to the world. Who cares?
>
> >You tell them, Twayne. DOS works with XP. If I can move stuff around,
> >get rid of files etc that won't move in Windows, et al......I have
> >DOS!!!! Pseudo or whatever the so-called MS fundi's want to call
> >it.......it's freakin' DOS!! Just because MS used the story as a sales
> >pitch (people were scared of DOS) "Windows XP has no DOS" these afore-
> >mentioned fundis use the same dogma, "No such thing as DOS in....."
> >till they begin to actually believe their chant.
>
> DOS stands of "disk operating system".
>
> If your computer has no disks or discs, then no DOS is needed.
>
> But when you see the C:\> prompt (or the A:\> or B:\> or D:\> prompt) you can
> then give commands to the disk operating system to perform functions like
> copying files from one disk to another, or from one place on a disk to another
> place on the same disk, or from a disk to a disk, or to a virtual drive like a
> flash drive.
>
> How those commands are carried out depends on the overall operating system.
> Windows 98 and below were GUIs that ran on top of an operating system called
> MS DOS. Later versions of Windows are operating systems in their own right,
> but when you give commands like xcopy at the command promps, you are still
> giving commands to the disk operating system to perform operations on the
> disks, which is what the original poster wanted to do.
>
> So all the pedantic twaddle to avoid answering the question is just a waste of
> space.
>
> Copying files is a Disk Operation, and therefore it is a function of the DOS,
> whether that DOS is built in to Windows or whether Windows is a GUI running on
> top of it.
>
> --
> Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
> Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
> Blog:http://methodius.blogspot.com
> E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

"DOS" is a group of similar operating systems, it is not meant to
represent any operating system that can manipulate disks, since that
would include nearly any OS since the 80s. It is generally understood
to mean MS-DOS or PC-DOS. In reference to Windows, it is universally
understood to mean MS-DOS. When referring to Windows, it can be
safely assumed that somebody referring to "DOS" does not mean
AmigaDOS, Commodore DOS, Atari DOS, or any other form of DOS. You
either don't understand what it is, or realize that you are wrong and
are just arguing for the sake of sounding right.

Steve Hayes · External Since: Jun 09, 2005 Posts: 16

On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 00:15:25 -0700 (PDT), Hodges
<mrezoustah.RemoveThis@garrifulio.mailexpire.com> wrote:

>On Sep 22, 9:37 pm, Steve Hayes <hayesm....RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> DOS stands of "disk operating system".
>>
>> If your computer has no disks or discs, then no DOS is needed.
>>
>> But when you see the C:\> prompt (or the A:\> or B:\> or D:\> prompt) you can
>> then give commands to the disk operating system to perform functions like
>> copying files from one disk to another, or from one place on a disk to another
>> place on the same disk, or from a disk to a disk, or to a virtual drive like a
>> flash drive.
>>
>> How those commands are carried out depends on the overall operating system.
>> Windows 98 and below were GUIs that ran on top of an operating system called
>> MS DOS. Later versions of Windows are operating systems in their own right,
>> but when you give commands like xcopy at the command promps, you are still
>> giving commands to the disk operating system to perform operations on the
>> disks, which is what the original poster wanted to do.
>>
>> So all the pedantic twaddle to avoid answering the question is just a waste of
>> space.
>>
>> Copying files is a Disk Operation, and therefore it is a function of the DOS,
>> whether that DOS is built in to Windows or whether Windows is a GUI running on
>> top of it.

>"DOS" is a group of similar operating systems, it is not meant to
>represent any operating system that can manipulate disks, since that
>would include nearly any OS since the 80s. It is generally understood
>to mean MS-DOS or PC-DOS. In reference to Windows, it is universally
>understood to mean MS-DOS. When referring to Windows, it can be
>safely assumed that somebody referring to "DOS" does not mean
>AmigaDOS, Commodore DOS, Atari DOS, or any other form of DOS. You
>either don't understand what it is, or realize that you are wrong and
>are just arguing for the sake of sounding right.

In reference to Windows XP "DOS" does not refer to MS DOS, since, as you have
pointed outy elsewhere, Windows does not run on MS DOS. But it does have a
command prompt that allows one to perform disk operations, and so say one
can't refer to that as the DOS prompt is just nit picking.

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Ken Blake MVP · External Since: Feb 19, 2004 Posts: 7325

On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 22:50:26 -0500, edfair
<edfair.3yygxz DeleteThis @no.email.invalid> wrote:

> Original post requested command line to be able to run xcopy.

Sorry, that's wrong. The original post said "leave windows to return
to DOS prompt."

That's very different from going to a command line, and is not
possible. What you suggest *may* work for the OP, but it is certainly
*not* what he asked for.

> To get to command line:
> start > run > cmd
> or
> start > run > command
> or
> start > programs > accessories > command line
> or
> the reboot and selective startup to command line using [F8]
>
> any of which might allow the xcopy to work as OP wants it to.
>

--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

Olórin · External Since: Feb 02, 2009 Posts: 51

<snip>
>
> In reference to Windows XP "DOS" does not refer to MS DOS, since, as
> you have pointed outy elsewhere, Windows does not run on MS DOS. But
> it does have a command prompt that allows one to perform disk
> operations, and so say one can't refer to that as the DOS prompt is
> just nit picking.

....until someone requests help in getting a DOS game to run, and the only
solution is DOSBox or similar. Then it becomes a matter of accuracy,
instead.

Still, in my book, the way the OP was phrased meant that further
explanation/education was required:

"How do you leave windows to return to DOS prompt? I need to use DOS XCOPY
command to back up damaged files."

A1) "There's no DOS in XP, end of story" is clearly inadequate and
unhelpful.

A2) "Start > Run > 'cmd'" doesn't address the specifically-stated desire to
"leave windows", let alone "*return* to DOS prompt".

Hopefully if the OP has read right through all responses, he/she will now
have a fuller understanding!

Twayne · External Since: Jan 08, 2009 Posts: 185

"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:m6ljb5tv4fq7iqijlfrrl9gkch6qu5vial@4ax.com
> On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 00:15:25 -0700 (PDT), Hodges
> <mrezoustah DeleteThis @garrifulio.mailexpire.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sep 22, 9:37 pm, Steve Hayes <hayesm... DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> DOS stands of "disk operating system".
>>>
>>> If your computer has no disks or discs, then no DOS is needed.
>>>
>>> But when you see the C:\> prompt (or the A:\> or B:\> or D:\>
>>> prompt) you can then give commands to the disk operating system to
>>> perform functions like copying files from one disk to another, or
>>> from one place on a disk to another place on the same disk, or from
>>> a disk to a disk, or to a virtual drive like a flash drive.
>>>
>>> How those commands are carried out depends on the overall operating
>>> system. Windows 98 and below were GUIs that ran on top of an
>>> operating system called MS DOS. Later versions of Windows are
>>> operating systems in their own right, but when you give commands
>>> like xcopy at the command promps, you are still giving commands to
>>> the disk operating system to perform operations on the disks, which
>>> is what the original poster wanted to do.
>>>
>>> So all the pedantic twaddle to avoid answering the question is just
>>> a waste of space.
>>>
>>> Copying files is a Disk Operation, and therefore it is a function
>>> of the DOS, whether that DOS is built in to Windows or whether
>>> Windows is a GUI running on top of it.
>
>> "DOS" is a group of similar operating systems, it is not meant to
>> represent any operating system that can manipulate disks, since that
>> would include nearly any OS since the 80s. It is generally
>> understood to mean MS-DOS or PC-DOS. In reference to Windows, it is
>> universally understood to mean MS-DOS. When referring to Windows,
>> it can be safely assumed that somebody referring to "DOS" does not
>> mean AmigaDOS, Commodore DOS, Atari DOS, or any other form of DOS.
>> You either don't understand what it is, or realize that you are
>> wrong and are just arguing for the sake of sounding right.
>
> In reference to Windows XP "DOS" does not refer to MS DOS, since, as
> you have pointed outy elsewhere, Windows does not run on MS DOS. But
> it does have a command prompt that allows one to perform disk
> operations, and so say one can't refer to that as the DOS prompt is
> just nit picking.

Exactly, and an action that never does the OP any good when it's used in
the method that started this thread; "there is no DOS" unsupported
comments. Since XP doesn't have an OS-DOS, the most one should need to
explain is a possible aside that to get to that DOS window, you use the
Command Prompt. Command Prompt is a nice, generic term for the process.
Thus, the Command Prompt allows you to use it as a DOS window to issue
most of the MSDOS commands. But it allows you to issue a lot of other,
post-DOS commands too that were added to XP for the Command Mode, to be
used in the Command Prompt.

Cheers,

Twayne`

Twayne · External Since: Jan 08, 2009 Posts: 185

"Olórin" <incanus.DeleteThis@erkljrjre890aeraekj4na.com> wrote in message
news:%23X0uBdEPKHA.1236@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl
> <snip>
>>
>> In reference to Windows XP "DOS" does not refer to MS DOS, since, as
>> you have pointed outy elsewhere, Windows does not run on MS DOS. But
>> it does have a command prompt that allows one to perform disk
>> operations, and so say one can't refer to that as the DOS prompt is
>> just nit picking.
>
> ...until someone requests help in getting a DOS game to run, and the
> only solution is DOSBox or similar. Then it becomes a matter of
> accuracy, instead.
>
> Still, in my book, the way the OP was phrased meant that further
> explanation/education was required:
>
> "How do you leave windows to return to DOS prompt? I need to use DOS
> XCOPY command to back up damaged files."
>
> A1) "There's no DOS in XP, end of story" is clearly inadequate and
> unhelpful.
>
> A2) "Start > Run > 'cmd'" doesn't address the specifically-stated
> desire to "leave windows", let alone "*return* to DOS prompt".
>
> Hopefully if the OP has read right through all responses, he/she will
> now have a fuller understanding!

All excellent points.

Twayne`

Twayne · External Since: Jan 08, 2009 Posts: 185

"Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake RemoveThis @this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
news:q0akb5tbc08m5nrlmq0d9at6un6l2vffr3@4ax.com
> On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 22:50:26 -0500, edfair
> <edfair.3yygxz RemoveThis @no.email.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>> Original post requested command line to be able to run xcopy.
>
>
> Sorry, that's wrong. The original post said "leave windows to return
> to DOS prompt."
>
> That's very different from going to a command line, and is not
> possible. What you suggest *may* work for the OP, but it is certainly
> *not* what he asked for.
>
>
>
>> To get to command line:
>> start > run > cmd
>> or
>> start > run > command
>> or
>> start > programs > accessories > command line
>> or
>> the reboot and selective startup to command line using [F8]
>>
>> any of which might allow the xcopy to work as OP wants it to.

Once again, the fantASStic MVP stated what was wrong, but not what was
right to do.

To achieve the same affect, one simply opens the Command Prompt, often
referred to as the DOS window as a matter of fact. You're still in XP,
but you're in a mode that may run DOS games, commands, etc., depending
on the game/command etc..

I suspect the OP has left this thread with the firm idea that it's
comprised of nothing but butt-heads, and impossible to tell who to
believe or what to believe, and disgusted thanks to the likes of answers
you often give. He'd be right, too: You and others like you have turned
this into a nearly useless group for anyone lacking the expertise to
phrase things exactly as YOU want to see them phrased. Good evidence of
that is your negative statement and lack of addressing the OP's needs.
You need to return to the Clarification and Verification chapters of
Interpersonal Skills assessment.
I'll bet the OP doesn't even CARE whether he "leaves" XP or not,
that's just the best way he had of explaining what his experience is.
All he wanted to know really is how to use the DOS facilities of XP.
And you never gave a positive response to that question.

HTH,

Twayne`

N. Miller · External Since: Apr 03, 2006 Posts: 32

On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 14:46:03 -0400, Twayne wrote:

> Once again, the fantASStic MVP stated what was wrong, but not what was
> right to do.

What is right depends upon what is desired. OP indicated, possibly, the
expectation to exit from Windows into MS DOS. Entirely feasible with Windows
98, and earlier; but even with Windows Me, required as special MS DOS boot
disc, or, possibly, modification of the standard Me installation. I never
gave it a thought to try, the EBD worked fine, for me.

It is, however, not possible to exit from Windows XP into MS DOS; because
there is no MS DOS to exit into. With Windows XP, if the intent is to exit
from Windows, then one is going to need an MS DOS boot disk; with the added
issue that MS DOS can't read NTFS volumes.

> To achieve the same affect, one simply opens the Command Prompt, often
> referred to as the DOS window as a matter of fact. You're still in XP,
> but you're in a mode that may run DOS games, commands, etc., depending
> on the game/command etc..

It is should probably be pointed out to the OP that this is an "effect", but
not the same as actually leaving Windows for MS DOS. Just for the OP's
edification; lest he leave thinking that invoking the command prompt ("DOS
box") is identical to "leaving Windows and dropping into MS DOS (it is most
definitely not).

> I suspect the OP has left this thread with the firm idea that it's
> comprised of nothing but butt-heads, and impossible to tell who to
> believe or what to believe, and disgusted thanks to the likes of
> answers you often give.

But you aren't helping matters, much! Wink

> He'd be right, too: You and others like you have turned this into a nearly
> useless group for anyone lacking the expertise to phrase things exactly as
> YOU want to see them phrased. Good evidence of that is your negative statement
> and lack of addressing the OP's needs.

What the OP wanted, and what he needed, were two different things. What he
wanted is impossible under Windows XP. What he needed was an education, not
positive reinforcement of an incorrect assumption (that it is possible to
exit Windows XP and enter MS DOS).

> You need to return to the Clarification and Verification chapters of Interpersonal
> Skills assessment.

When you have done that, yourself, get back to us and report on your
findings! Wink

> I'll bet the OP doesn't even CARE whether he "leaves" XP or not,
> that's just the best way he had of explaining what his experience is.
> All he wanted to know really is how to use the DOS facilities of XP.
> And you never gave a positive response to that question.

Now you are making an assumption. And, in case you don't know, "Assume" make
an "Ass" of "u" and "me". You could be just as wrong as you could be right.
Flip a coin: Heads you nailed it, tails you missed it.

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Twayne · External Since: Jan 08, 2009 Posts: 185

"Hodges" <mrezoustah.RemoveThis@garrifulio.mailexpire.com> wrote in message
news:c605d338-9e9a-4c83-a6b2-27692a490930@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com
> On Sep 22, 6:30 pm, sandy58 <alecki....RemoveThis@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> On Sep 21, 6:48 pm, "Twayne" <nob....RemoveThis@devnull.spamcop.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> "Stan Brown" <the_stan_br....RemoveThis@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
>>
>>> news:MPG.2520644ac73d76e698bc53@news.individual.net
>>
>>>> Sun, 20 Sep 2009 08:53:41 -0700 from Malke <ma....RemoveThis@invalid.invalid>:
>>
>>>>> navnah wrote:
>>
>>>>>> How do you leave windows to return to DOS prompt? I need to use
>>>>>> DOS XCOPY command to back up damaged files.
>>
>>>>> There is no DOS in Windows XP so you can't do this as you could in
>>>>> Win9x/ME.
>>
>>>> Or, to answer what the OP really wants to know, click
>>>> Start | Programs | Accessories | Command prompt.
>>
>>>> If it's not there, click Start | Run and enter this command
>>>> cmd /k
>>>> then click OK
>>
>>>> I will never understand why normally helpful people say "there is
>>>> no DOS" and then stop, when they know perfectly well that everyone
>>>> but a few use "DOS" as a short term for "the command prompt". Is it
>>>> technically accurate? no, but neither are lots of short forms of
>>>> speech.
>>
>>> Actually, Microsoft describes the Command Prompt as a DOS window
>>> too, in so many places one could never count them. It's even in the
>>> Help & Support area on your own computer. The proper definition is
>>> that XP is not BUILT ON TOP OF DOS as other windws versions were
>>> and thus is not DOS based as other windows versions were. It does
>>> in fact still have a DOS window, found in the Command Prompt, and
>>> today it is much more than a simple DOS emulator since it has many
>>> many more possible commands at the user's disposal.
>>> Purists such as you encountered are silly and nonsensical beings in
>>> that they have no wish to help the OP but rather only wish to show
>>> their own egoes to the world. Who cares?
>>
>> You tell them, Twayne. DOS works with XP. If I can move stuff around,
>> get rid of files etc that won't move in Windows, et al......I have
>> DOS!!!! Pseudo or whatever the so-called MS fundi's want to call
>> it.......it's freakin' DOS!! Just because MS used the story as a
>> sales pitch (people were scared of DOS) "Windows XP has no DOS"
>> these afore- mentioned fundis use the same dogma, "No such thing as
>> DOS in....." till they begin to actually believe their chant.
>
> DOS does not work with XP and cannot read NTFS volumes without 3rd-
> party applications such as NTFS4DOS. The command prompt is not the
> DOS operating system just because it is a command-line interpreter.
> This isn't just arguing semantics here, it really is NOT the same as
> DOS. It isn't even an emulator. DOS is 16-bit, programs that run
> under Windows XP's command line are 32-bit.
>
> By your logic, Windows 95 is the same as XP in the Windows Classic
> theme because they look similar.
>
> Calling the command-line interpreter "DOS" is just as ignorant as
> calling a computer tower or monitor the CPU.

Once again, another post with totally moot points. If you have no room
in your life for newbies who haven't yet gotten hold of the lingo, then
you should go elsewhere to show off your ego. If you aren't going to
address the OP's question somehow, then you have/had no business posting
anything here.
Windows95 is windows.
windows is not necessarily win9x or winXP or ... .
Therefore I could easily say "windows" and mean XP. And since this is
an XP group ...
This post is of no use to anyone.

Peter Foldes · External Since: May 03, 2005 Posts: 1178

Norman

Planning on becoming a Diplomat anytime soon. LOL

--
Peter

Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others
Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.

"N. Miller" <anonymous.TakeThisOut@msnews.aosake.net> wrote in message
news:1xeyx6aobkc8p.dlg@msnews.aosake.net...
> On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 14:46:03 -0400, Twayne wrote:
>
>> Once again, the fantASStic MVP stated what was wrong, but not what was
>> right to do.
>
> What is right depends upon what is desired. OP indicated, possibly, the
> expectation to exit from Windows into MS DOS. Entirely feasible with Windows
> 98, and earlier; but even with Windows Me, required as special MS DOS boot
> disc, or, possibly, modification of the standard Me installation. I never
> gave it a thought to try, the EBD worked fine, for me.
>
> It is, however, not possible to exit from Windows XP into MS DOS; because
> there is no MS DOS to exit into. With Windows XP, if the intent is to exit
> from Windows, then one is going to need an MS DOS boot disk; with the added
> issue that MS DOS can't read NTFS volumes.
>
>> To achieve the same affect, one simply opens the Command Prompt, often
>> referred to as the DOS window as a matter of fact. You're still in XP,
>> but you're in a mode that may run DOS games, commands, etc., depending
>> on the game/command etc..
>
> It is should probably be pointed out to the OP that this is an "effect", but
> not the same as actually leaving Windows for MS DOS. Just for the OP's
> edification; lest he leave thinking that invoking the command prompt ("DOS
> box") is identical to "leaving Windows and dropping into MS DOS (it is most
> definitely not).
>
>> I suspect the OP has left this thread with the firm idea that it's
>> comprised of nothing but butt-heads, and impossible to tell who to
>> believe or what to believe, and disgusted thanks to the likes of
>> answers you often give.
>
> But you aren't helping matters, much! Wink

>
>> He'd be right, too: You and others like you have turned this into a nearly
>> useless group for anyone lacking the expertise to phrase things exactly as
>> YOU want to see them phrased. Good evidence of that is your negative statement
>> and lack of addressing the OP's needs.
>
> What the OP wanted, and what he needed, were two different things. What he
> wanted is impossible under Windows XP. What he needed was an education, not
> positive reinforcement of an incorrect assumption (that it is possible to
> exit Windows XP and enter MS DOS).
>
>> You need to return to the Clarification and Verification chapters of
>> Interpersonal
>> Skills assessment.
>
> When you have done that, yourself, get back to us and report on your
> findings! Wink

>
>> I'll bet the OP doesn't even CARE whether he "leaves" XP or not,
>> that's just the best way he had of explaining what his experience is.
>> All he wanted to know really is how to use the DOS facilities of XP.
>> And you never gave a positive response to that question.
>
> Now you are making an assumption. And, in case you don't know, "Assume" make
> an "Ass" of "u" and "me". You could be just as wrong as you could be right.
> Flip a coin: Heads you nailed it, tails you missed it.
>
> --
> Norman
> ~Oh Lord, why have you come
> ~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

N. Miller · External Since: Apr 03, 2006 Posts: 32

On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 17:51:04 -0400, Peter Foldes wrote:

> Planning on becoming a Diplomat anytime soon. LOL

War is a form of diplomacy. I'll stick with M16s, M60s, and M109s, thank you
(though those are now obsolete).

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum