FAX in Vista Home Premium

To continue to warn those who are considering updating to Vista to read the
fine print before they do. Those users who most frequently use the Windows
Fax product will now be left without it if they don't. Users for whom faxing
is important should stay with XP. I see a lot of folks who rush to the
latest releases just assuming it will be better or have more features--not
always true.
It is not realistic to post here and expect anyone here to be able to
provide a solution for this issue. Microsoft does not monitor these groups,
but it may still be reasonable to post your individual protest and leave it
at that. Sometimes they do "mine the data" here when considering future
policies. I can't help but wonder that they aren't a bit surprised by
finding out how many people actually used and valued the fax module.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"Brian" <Brian @discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:2BD893E7-317B-4193-A888-992783D4B1FA@microsoft.com...
>I agree with Susan. I need Microsoft Fax. I can't believe MS left it out
>of
> Home Premium. Total BS. As for the Know It All, why post your smart a$$
> remarks on here?

As a loyal Microsoft customer I find it very sad to read all the MVP
replies.

A basic rule of marketing is "the customer is always right". I am a
long-time customer, and I feel like I have been ripped off when a
feature which was available in Windows XP is no longer available in
the regular (or "cheap" if you like) versions of Windows Vista.

You can say as long as you want "read the fine-prints", "if you had
downloaded the large but free product manual you would have seen
that". However I do not read the fine prints of any product I buy. I
did read the comparison table at the Windows Vista home page, and it
said nothing about faxing. I have never planned to read a "large but
free" manual before making a choice of which version to buy.

You are calling the customers' complaints "bitching". This is very
insulting. It really feels like talking to a monopoly - "who cares
what the customer thinks, you should have known better." I know you
guys are not working for Microsoft, but you are holding a title given
by it and you do represent Microsoft in this newsgroup.

This is not the kind of attitude I am expecting to see from MVPs. You
can be helpful, link to alternative fax programs. If you can't be
helpful, you can just not reply.

On Mar 17, 2:49 pm, "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" <russ....DeleteThis@gmail.com>
wrote:
> To continue to warn those who are considering updating to Vista to read the
> fine print before they do. Those users who most frequently use the WindowsFaxproduct will now be left without it if they don't. Users for whom faxing
> is important should stay with XP. I see a lot of folks who rush to the
> latest releases just assuming it will be better or have more features--not
> always true.
> It is not realistic to post here and expect anyone here to be able to
> provide a solution for this issue. Microsoft does not monitor these groups,
> but it may still be reasonable to post your individual protest and leave it
> at that. Sometimes they do "mine the data" here when considering future
> policies. I can't help but wonder that they aren't a bit surprised by
> finding out how many people actually used and valued thefaxmodule.
> --
> Russ Valentine
> [MVP-Outlook]"Brian" <Brian @discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>
> news:2BD893E7-317B-4193-A888-992783D4B1FA@microsoft.com...
>
>
>
> >I agree with Susan. I need MicrosoftFax. I can't believe MS left it out
> >of
> > Home Premium. Total BS. As for the Know It All, why post your smart a$$
> > remarks on here?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 08:49:08 -0400, "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]"
<russval.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:

>Microsoft does not monitor these groups,
>but it may still be reasonable to post your individual protest

I would certainly like to add my comments to the others. As has been
said before, it is unreasonable to expect "upgraders" to read all the
fine print, one expects more features in new system, not fewer.

I won't be advising any of my clients to upgrade their PCs until
Microsoft comes up with a solution.

--
Nigel M

Just to be perfectly clear, I am an end user just like everyone else here. I
do not represent Microsoft in any way and know no more about its internal
operations than you do. I do know they do not monitor these groups directly.
It is only an assumption on my part that they might "mine the data" that
resides here. Microsoft is a very savvy company. It would surprise me
greatly if they did not, but perhaps they don't.

For those who keep trying to bash me for my "RTFM" comments I have no
apologies. Everyone here is an adult capable of making competent purchase
decisions. Decisions to update an OS should be made carefully and
deliberately. Since I need Fax I chose a version of Vista that provided it.
Do the same or stay with XP.

As I have said from the beginning, I understand the pain from those who have
been less careful. The fault is not entirely theirs. The fact that Fax has
been removed from Vista Home versions is documented, but only enough to
satisfy a lawyer (I always consider lawyers the lowest common denominator.
That's an occupational hazard for any physician): Look! There it is! It's in
footnote (ixivvi).

No way am I going to be the one to organize a protest. If I were, I would
follow Nigel's lead, only in a new thread each time to ensure the best
chance of being picked up by a search engine. Preceding the Subject with the
word "Protest" as Nigel did will also enable those of us trying to provide
real help move on to threads where we can actually do so. IMHO, Microsoft
needs to bring its marketing department up to speed. This is certainly one
case where they have missed the mark by a very wide margin.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"Nigel Molesworth" <reply RemoveThis @thegroup.com> wrote in message
news:1nhov2hc1cbpg4d18d4kca916dm6fb312f@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 08:49:08 -0400, "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]"
> <russval RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Microsoft does not monitor these groups,
>>but it may still be reasonable to post your individual protest
>
> I would certainly like to add my comments to the others. As has been
> said before, it is unreasonable to expect "upgraders" to read all the
> fine print, one expects more features in new system, not fewer.
>
> I won't be advising any of my clients to upgrade their PCs until
> Microsoft comes up with a solution.
>
> --
> Nigel M

You seem not understand USENET, public newsgroups, and the role of MVP's.
The mere fact that you would include MVP's in the same sentence with "rule
of marketing" testifies to that lack of understanding. Read more thoroughly
and think more carefully before you post your accusations.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
<dkldkl2 DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174172066.616047.47570@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> As a loyal Microsoft customer I find it very sad to read all the MVP
> replies.
>
> A basic rule of marketing is "the customer is always right". I am a
> long-time customer, and I feel like I have been ripped off when a
> feature which was available in Windows XP is no longer available in
> the regular (or "cheap" if you like) versions of Windows Vista.
>
> You can say as long as you want "read the fine-prints", "if you had
> downloaded the large but free product manual you would have seen
> that". However I do not read the fine prints of any product I buy. I
> did read the comparison table at the Windows Vista home page, and it
> said nothing about faxing. I have never planned to read a "large but
> free" manual before making a choice of which version to buy.
>
> You are calling the customers' complaints "bitching". This is very
> insulting. It really feels like talking to a monopoly - "who cares
> what the customer thinks, you should have known better." I know you
> guys are not working for Microsoft, but you are holding a title given
> by it and you do represent Microsoft in this newsgroup.
>
> This is not the kind of attitude I am expecting to see from MVPs. You
> can be helpful, link to alternative fax programs. If you can't be
> helpful, you can just not reply.
>
> On Mar 17, 2:49 pm, "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" <russ... DeleteThis @gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> To continue to warn those who are considering updating to Vista to read
>> the
>> fine print before they do. Those users who most frequently use the
>> WindowsFaxproduct will now be left without it if they don't. Users for
>> whom faxing
>> is important should stay with XP. I see a lot of folks who rush to the
>> latest releases just assuming it will be better or have more
>> features--not
>> always true.
>> It is not realistic to post here and expect anyone here to be able to
>> provide a solution for this issue. Microsoft does not monitor these
>> groups,
>> but it may still be reasonable to post your individual protest and leave
>> it
>> at that. Sometimes they do "mine the data" here when considering future
>> policies. I can't help but wonder that they aren't a bit surprised by
>> finding out how many people actually used and valued thefaxmodule.
>> --
>> Russ Valentine
>> [MVP-Outlook]"Brian" <Brian @discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:2BD893E7-317B-4193-A888-992783D4B1FA@microsoft.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> >I agree with Susan. I need MicrosoftFax. I can't believe MS left it
>> >out
>> >of
>> > Home Premium. Total BS. As for the Know It All, why post your smart
>> > a$$
>> > remarks on here?- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>

I just downloaded Snappy Fax from their web site. 30 day free trial using
the full program and support. It's got more bells and whistles than the
WinFax Pro program that I was using with XP. It also is Vista compatible.
Cost to buy? About thirty bucks, I believe.

Regards
Barry

P.S. Although I was also surprised that a fax program was not included in
the Home Premium. Why they dropped it is a mystery to me.


<ianmyl DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1173804793.617054.51020@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 16, 12:55 am, "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]"
> <russ... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>> Not sure why you want me to comment. I have nothing to do with Microsoft.
>> If
>> you feel you were deliberately deceived by Microsoft's marketing, then
>> your
>> issue is with them, not me. You may well have a legitimate complaint
>> based
>> on what you saw and what you read. All I know is that when I did my
>> research
>> on version specific features, it was pretty clear to me which versions
>> includedfax:http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/footnotes.mspx
>>
>> --
>> Russ Valentine
>> [MVP-Outlook]"Susan" <S... DeleteThis @discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:3817C9BD-5127-44FC-86C8-8A200EF6FA85@microsoft.com...
>>
>> > I'd like you to look at this page and comment. scroll down to where it
>> > says
>> > "what programs have changed" specifically in reference to windowsfax
>> > console andfaxand scan:
>> >http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-US/help/93929171-8e24-1e6...
>> > and please note the words at the top of the page which state "Applies
>> > to
>> > all
>> > editions of WindowsVista."
>> > "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote:
>>
>> >> You wanted to know how to view your old faxes. I told you. That was
>> >> your
>> >> only question. The rest was just a rant. I've always been puzzled by
>> >> users'
>> >> expectation that Windows should provide reliable, robustfaxsoftware as
>> >> part of the OS. Microsoft has done little to create that expectation
>> >> since
>> >> the software it has provided is neither reliable nor robust. Most
>> >> users
>> >> who
>> >> need tofaxpurchase a third party product, which you are certainly free
>> >> to
>> >> do. I can assure you thefaxfeature will not be added back into the
>> >> basic
>> >> versions ofVistain some sort of Service Pack, if that's what you're
>> >> asking. Features for each version were set long ago.
>> >> --
>> >> Russ Valentine
>> >> [MVP-Outlook]
>> >> "Susan" <S... DeleteThis @discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> >>news:11C59053-71F8-45F4-8411-9F1484B8D5A6@microsoft.com...
>> >> > Russ, sorry I'm not as astute as you are. Your reply however, is
>> >> > not
>> >> > helpful. A slap on the wrist might make some feel superior, but
>> >> > without
>> >> > any
>> >> > concrete suggestions to add to the string, is nothing more than a
>> >> > slap
>> >> > on
>> >> > the
>> >> > wrist, best to keep the chastising to yourself - it makes you sound
>> >> > smug.
>>
>> >> > The bottom line is that the program is lacking a fundamental
>> >> > communications
>> >> > tool and without user input the developers will not know what areas
>> >> > need
>> >> > to
>> >> > be addressed and included in future service packs.
>>
>> >> > "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote:
>>
>> >> >> Normally when making a purchase one looks at the features needed
>> >> >> and
>> >> >> purchases the appropriate version to meet one's needs. This
>> >> >> information
>> >> >> is
>> >> >> all well documented.
>> >> >> You can still view your old faxes quite readily. TIF files open in
>> >> >> Windows
>> >> >> Photo Gallery.
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Russ Valentine
>> >> >> [MVP-Outlook]
>> >> >> "Susan" <S... DeleteThis @discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> >> >>news:C732D82F-F76A-4AFC-A550-42AD677AA518@microsoft.com...
>> >> >> > You have got to be kidding. I havevistahomepremiumbut I still
>> >> >> > need
>> >> >> > to
>> >> >> > send and receive faxes!!!! I had this capability with XP, and I
>> >> >> > am
>> >> >> > very
>> >> >> > upset
>> >> >> > that it is not available withVistawhich I just installed
>> >> >> > yesterday
>> >> >> > Feb
>> >> >> > 3.
>> >> >> > Does Microsoft believe thathomeusers never receive or send faxes?
>> >> >> > What
>> >> >> > are
>> >> >> > my options? How am I to view the faxes I have saved in my
>> >> >> > documents?
>> >> >> > I
>> >> >> > urgently need to have this capability on my computer and I am
>> >> >> > sure I
>> >> >> > am
>> >> >> > not
>> >> >> > alone in this need.
>>
>> >> >> > "John Barnett MVP" wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >> It's doubtful, Microsoft, as far as i know, haven't supplied the
>> >> >> >>fax
>> >> >> >> software as a separate item for other versions of Windows
>> >> >> >> operating
>> >> >> >> systems.
>>
>> >> >> >> You may have to look at third partyfaxapplications for this one.
>> >> >> >> Alternatively you would have to look to buyingVistaBusiness or
>> >> >> >> Ultimate
>> >> >> >> instead ofPremium.
>>
>> >> >> >> --
>> >> >> >> John Barnett MVP
>> >> >> >> Associate Expert
>> >> >> >> Windows Shell/User
>>
>> >> >> >> Web:http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org
>> >> >> >> Web:http://vistasupport.mvps.org
>>
>> >> >> >> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No
>> >> >> >> warranty
>> >> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> any
>> >> >> >> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the
>> >> >> >> accuracy,
>> >> >> >> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not
>> >> >> >> be
>> >> >> >> liable
>> >> >> >> for
>> >> >> >> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages
>> >> >> >> arising
>> >> >> >> out
>> >> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed
>> >> >> >> in
>> >> >> >> this
>> >> >> >> mail/post..
>>
>> >> >> >> "BoB Brazie" <?bbra...@knowledge1.com> wrote in message
>> >> >> >>news:OaA76LOQHHA.856@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> >> >> >> > Thanks John. Do you suppose it might be available as a
>> >> >> >> > separate
>> >> >> >> > download
>> >> >> >> > sometime for the other versions ofVista?
>>
>> >> >> >> > "John Barnett MVP" <freelanc... DeleteThis @mvps.org.NOSPAM> wrote in
>> >> >> >> > message
>> >> >> >> >news:uwfTYoLQHHA.4992@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> >> >> >> >>Faxfacility is only available inVistaBusiness, Enterprise and
>> >> >> >> >> Ultimate.
>>
>> >> >> >> >> Word 2007 provides plenty offaxcover templates but still
>> >> >> >> >> relies,
>> >> >> >> >> as
>> >> >> >> >> far
>> >> >> >> >> as i know, on thefaxsoftware ofVistaBusiness, Enterprise and
>> >> >> >> >> Ultimate. It doesn't contain afaxapplication on its own.
>>
>> >> >> >> >> --
>> >> >> >> >> John Barnett MVP
>> >> >> >> >> Associate Expert
>> >> >> >> >> Windows Shell/User
>>
>> >> >> >> >> Web:http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org
>> >> >> >> >> Web:http://vistasupport.mvps.org
>>
>> >> >> >> >> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No
>> >> >> >> >> warranty
>> >> >> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> >> any
>> >> >> >> >> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the
>> >> >> >> >> accuracy,
>> >> >> >> >> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall
>> >> >> >> >> not
>> >> >> >> >> be
>> >> >> >> >> liable
>> >> >> >> >> for any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages
>> >> >> >> >> arising
>> >> >> >> >> out
>> >> >> >> >> of the use of, or inability to use, information or opinions
>> >> >> >> >> expressed
>> >> >> >> >> in
>> >> >> >> >> this mail/post..
>>
>> >> >> >> >> "BoB Brazie" <?bbra...@knowledge1.com> wrote in message
>> >> >> >> >>news:uomt9OJQHHA.780@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> >> >> >> >>> Will some form of FAXing and scanning be available in
>> >> >> >> >>> theHome
>> >> >> >> >>>Premium
>> >> >> >> >>> edition or only in the business edition.
>>
>> >> >> >> >>> I have need for both of these features but do not want the
>> >> >> >> >>> business
>> >> >> >> >>> edition.
>>
>> >> >> >> >>> Maybe they are available in the Office 2007 standard suite?
>>
>> >> >> >> >>> Thanks in advance. Bob.
>
> I see.... Well lots of friends 're waiting for information on this
> annoying fax mater... So, according to all above comments, we should
> not upgrade to vista home premium. We'd better stay with our xp OS. XP
> supports fax....
>
>

Many to choose from? None is more like it. Please advise me of a fax program
that works with Vista...
D

"bjr" wrote:

> You should have read the list of features in each version before you
> buy. That info has been available for about a year. The fax has NEVER
> been part of Premium, only Ultimate and Business.
> If fax software came with your modem, try installing that. Otherwise,
> stop whining and go buy some fax software. There are many to choose from.
>
> Susan wrote:
> > Russ, sorry I'm not as astute as you are. Your reply however, is not
> > helpful. A slap on the wrist might make some feel superior, but without any
> > concrete suggestions to add to the string, is nothing more than a slap on the
> > wrist, best to keep the chastising to yourself - it makes you sound smug.
> >
> > The bottom line is that the program is lacking a fundamental communications
> > tool and without user input the developers will not know what areas need to
> > be addressed and included in future service packs.
> >
> > "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote:
> >
> >> Normally when making a purchase one looks at the features needed and
> >> purchases the appropriate version to meet one's needs. This information is
> >> all well documented.
> >> You can still view your old faxes quite readily. TIF files open in Windows
> >> Photo Gallery.
> >> --
> >> Russ Valentine
> >> [MVP-Outlook]
> >> "Susan" <Susan RemoveThis @discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> >> news:C732D82F-F76A-4AFC-A550-42AD677AA518@microsoft.com...
> >>> You have got to be kidding. I have vista home premium but I still need to
> >>> send and receive faxes!!!! I had this capability with XP, and I am very
> >>> upset
> >>> that it is not available with Vista which I just installed yesterday Feb
> >>> 3.
> >>> Does Microsoft believe that home users never receive or send faxes? What
> >>> are
> >>> my options? How am I to view the faxes I have saved in my documents? I
> >>> urgently need to have this capability on my computer and I am sure I am
> >>> not
> >>> alone in this need.
> >>>
> >>> "John Barnett MVP" wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> It's doubtful, Microsoft, as far as i know, haven't supplied the fax
> >>>> software as a separate item for other versions of Windows operating
> >>>> systems.
> >>>>
> >>>> You may have to look at third party fax applications for this one.
> >>>> Alternatively you would have to look to buying Vista Business or Ultimate
> >>>> instead of Premium.
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> John Barnett MVP
> >>>> Associate Expert
> >>>> Windows Shell/User
> >>>>
> >>>> Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org
> >>>> Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org
> >>>>
> >>>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any
> >>>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
> >>>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable
> >>>> for
> >>>> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of
> >>>> the
> >>>> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this
> >>>> mail/post..
> >>>>
> >>>> "BoB Brazie" <?bbrazie@knowledge1.com> wrote in message
> >>>> news:OaA76LOQHHA.856@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> >>>>> Thanks John. Do you suppose it might be available as a separate
> >>>>> download
> >>>>> sometime for the other versions of Vista?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "John Barnett MVP" <freelanceit RemoveThis @mvps.org.NOSPAM> wrote in message
> >>>>> news:uwfTYoLQHHA.4992@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> >>>>>> Fax facility is only available in Vista Business, Enterprise and
> >>>>>> Ultimate.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Word 2007 provides plenty of fax cover templates but still relies, as
> >>>>>> far
> >>>>>> as i know, on the fax software of Vista Business, Enterprise and
> >>>>>> Ultimate. It doesn't contain a fax application on its own.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> John Barnett MVP
> >>>>>> Associate Expert
> >>>>>> Windows Shell/User
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org
> >>>>>> Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of
> >>>>>> any
> >>>>>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the
> >>>>>> accuracy,
> >>>>>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be
> >>>>>> liable
> >>>>>> for any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising
> >>>>>> out
> >>>>>> of the use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed
> >>>>>> in
> >>>>>> this mail/post..
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "BoB Brazie" <?bbrazie@knowledge1.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>> news:uomt9OJQHHA.780@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> >>>>>>> Will some form of FAXing and scanning be available in the Home
> >>>>>>> Premium
> >>>>>>> edition or only in the business edition.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I have need for both of these features but do not want the business
> >>>>>>> edition.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Maybe they are available in the Office 2007 standard suite?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks in advance. Bob.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
>

How about snappyfax?

"Barry" <hiouchibear.TakeThisOut@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:uOYWXbZaHHA.1240@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>I just downloaded Snappy Fax from their web site. 30 day free trial using
>the full program and support. It's got more bells and whistles than the
>WinFax Pro program that I was using with XP. It also is Vista compatible.
> Cost to buy? About thirty bucks, I believe.
>
> Regards
> Barry
>
> P.S. Although I was also surprised that a fax program was not included
> in the Home Premium. Why they dropped it is a mystery to me.
>
They didn't included fax because its one of the small things that will
irritate people into wanting the better version. I think it adds up to
money. Microsoft found a way to sell their most expensive OS to everyone;
even folks who buy a new computer. New systems will probably come preloaded
with Home Basic or Premium and everyone will want to upgrade. MS gets to
sell the half baked OS to manufacturers and make even more when everyone
upgrades.

-Cedrick

Try to load a old DOS Skyglobe version on Vista. KO!

Try to send a fax. KO!

I am annoyed, I think I will return to my old XP or perhaps I will
install Linux.

joe

I too like Susan and others am *extremely* disappointed that Vista Premium
doesn't have Fax capability. Why? Because I can not believe an OS that is
supposed to be an "improvement" over XP would actually take functions AWAY
from the user. And at a 160% higher cost over previous OS', you certainly
shouldn't expect to get less functions than what the previous OS had. (And
no, I don't want to buy a space-hogging fax machine. I got rid of the one I
had because I COULD fax from my computer.)

I just don't believe a new OS should cost more -- and have less. It should
build on the previous version's capabilities and only go upwards from there,
not take them away.

Dave



"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote:

> That's the version I heard as well. The Fax Developers put a ton of work
> into this module and it shows. I hate it when marketing wins, but they
> almost always do.
> --
> Russ Valentine
> [MVP-Outlook]
> "Alan Morris [MSFT]" <alanmo.TakeThisOut@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:erphAZ6THHA.4756@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> >I am a printer guy so I don't fax. When I have to, I am worthless around
> >one. None the less there are plenty of people who are good at this
> >function. I contacted one of the Fax guys who was around when the decision
> >for where fax lives was finalized. The developers and project managers of
> >Fax want fax on every version of Windows that is shipped. Marketing group
> >had a difference of opinion and won the contest. There was lots of
> >discussion but in the end devs lost this battle.
> >
> > "
> > This was always a controversial topic and tons of discussion took place
> > around this subject. It was always seen as a very valuable asset to sell
> > to small businesses and this influenced the SKU decision making. At some
> > point there was going to be a small biz SKU and that is where fax had the
> > most value.
> > "
> >
> > --
> > Alan Morris
> > Windows Printing Team
> > Search the Microsoft Knowledge Base here:
> > http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;[ln];kbhowto
> >
> > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> > rights.
> >
> > "Susan" <Susan.TakeThisOut@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> > news:843A9609-9DCE-4304-949C-200D04F5567B@microsoft.com...
> >> guys, please stop. I came to ask a question, perhaps find a solution from
> >> another party and I get only attitude.
> >>
> >> Is this a community area for regular windows users to ask questions and
> >> hopefully get some decent advise or is this only for professional types
> >> who
> >> follow software development? I haven't been following the development of
> >> Vista for a year, nor do I feel that I have to. Microsoft has a long
> >> standing
> >> goal of selling operating systems that everyone can use, and I believe I
> >> am
> >> in the group of everyone. I am not whining.
> >>
> >> Can you tell me where on the Vista box it says no fax? I also don't see
> >> it
> >> on the side by side comparison that is designed to help people make a
> >> choice.
> >> I'm not seeing it. Also, I upgraded from XP home and the problem is with
> >> Vista not working with the fax software that worked with XP. I have a
> >> Dell
> >> XPS--only five months old, but I'm sure a patch is forthcoming.
> >>
> >>
> >> "bjr" wrote:
> >>
> >>> You should have read the list of features in each version before you
> >>> buy. That info has been available for about a year. The fax has NEVER
> >>> been part of Premium, only Ultimate and Business.
> >>> If fax software came with your modem, try installing that. Otherwise,
> >>> stop whining and go buy some fax software. There are many to choose
> >>> from.
> >>>
> >>> Susan wrote:
> >>> > Russ, sorry I'm not as astute as you are. Your reply however, is not
> >>> > helpful. A slap on the wrist might make some feel superior, but
> >>> > without any
> >>> > concrete suggestions to add to the string, is nothing more than a slap
> >>> > on the
> >>> > wrist, best to keep the chastising to yourself - it makes you sound
> >>> > smug.
> >>> >
> >>> > The bottom line is that the program is lacking a fundamental
> >>> > communications
> >>> > tool and without user input the developers will not know what areas
> >>> > need to
> >>> > be addressed and included in future service packs.
> >>> >
> >>> > "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >> Normally when making a purchase one looks at the features needed and
> >>> >> purchases the appropriate version to meet one's needs. This
> >>> >> information is
> >>> >> all well documented.
> >>> >> You can still view your old faxes quite readily. TIF files open in
> >>> >> Windows
> >>> >> Photo Gallery.
> >>> >> --
> >>> >> Russ Valentine
> >>> >> [MVP-Outlook]
> >>> >> "Susan" <Susan.TakeThisOut@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> >>> >> news:C732D82F-F76A-4AFC-A550-42AD677AA518@microsoft.com...
> >>> >>> You have got to be kidding. I have vista home premium but I still
> >>> >>> need to
> >>> >>> send and receive faxes!!!! I had this capability with XP, and I am
> >>> >>> very
> >>> >>> upset
> >>> >>> that it is not available with Vista which I just installed yesterday
> >>> >>> Feb
> >>> >>> 3.
> >>> >>> Does Microsoft believe that home users never receive or send faxes?
> >>> >>> What
> >>> >>> are
> >>> >>> my options? How am I to view the faxes I have saved in my documents?
> >>> >>> I
> >>> >>> urgently need to have this capability on my computer and I am sure I
> >>> >>> am
> >>> >>> not
> >>> >>> alone in this need.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> "John Barnett MVP" wrote:
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>> It's doubtful, Microsoft, as far as i know, haven't supplied the
> >>> >>>> fax
> >>> >>>> software as a separate item for other versions of Windows operating
> >>> >>>> systems.
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>> You may have to look at third party fax applications for this one.
> >>> >>>> Alternatively you would have to look to buying Vista Business or
> >>> >>>> Ultimate
> >>> >>>> instead of Premium.
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>> --
> >>> >>>> John Barnett MVP
> >>> >>>> Associate Expert
> >>> >>>> Windows Shell/User
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>> Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org
> >>> >>>> Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty
> >>> >>>> of any
> >>> >>>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the
> >>> >>>> accuracy,
> >>> >>>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be
> >>> >>>> liable
> >>> >>>> for
> >>> >>>> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising
> >>> >>>> out of
> >>> >>>> the
> >>> >>>> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in
> >>> >>>> this
> >>> >>>> mail/post..
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>> "BoB Brazie" <?bbrazie@knowledge1.com> wrote in message
> >>> >>>> news:OaA76LOQHHA.856@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> >>> >>>>> Thanks John. Do you suppose it might be available as a separate
> >>> >>>>> download
> >>> >>>>> sometime for the other versions of Vista?
> >>> >>>>>
> >>> >>>>> "John Barnett MVP" <freelanceit.TakeThisOut@mvps.org.NOSPAM> wrote in message
> >>> >>>>> news:uwfTYoLQHHA.4992@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> >>> >>>>>> Fax facility is only available in Vista Business, Enterprise and
> >>> >>>>>> Ultimate.
> >>> >>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>> Word 2007 provides plenty of fax cover templates but still
> >>> >>>>>> relies, as
> >>> >>>>>> far
> >>> >>>>>> as i know, on the fax software of Vista Business, Enterprise and
> >>> >>>>>> Ultimate. It doesn't contain a fax application on its own.
> >>> >>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>> --
> >>> >>>>>> John Barnett MVP
> >>> >>>>>> Associate Expert
> >>> >>>>>> Windows Shell/User
> >>> >>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>> Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org
> >>> >>>>>> Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org
> >>> >>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No
> >>> >>>>>> warranty of
> >>> >>>>>> any
> >>> >>>>>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the
> >>> >>>>>> accuracy,
> >>> >>>>>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be
> >>> >>>>>> liable
> >>> >>>>>> for any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages
> >>> >>>>>> arising
> >>> >>>>>> out
> >>> >>>>>> of the use of, or inability to use, information or opinions
> >>> >>>>>> expressed
> >>> >>>>>> in
> >>> >>>>>> this mail/post..
> >>> >>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>> "BoB Brazie" <?bbrazie@knowledge1.com> wrote in message
> >>> >>>>>> news:uomt9OJQHHA.780@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> >>> >>>>>>> Will some form of FAXing and scanning be available in the Home
> >>> >>>>>>> Premium
> >>> >>>>>>> edition or only in the business edition.
> >>> >>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>> I have need for both of these features but do not want the
> >>> >>>>>>> business
> >>> >>>>>>> edition.
> >>> >>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>> Maybe they are available in the Office 2007 standard suite?
> >>> >>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>> Thanks in advance. Bob.
> >>> >>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>
> >>> >>>>
> >>>
> >
> >
>
>
>

"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote:

> You seem not understand USENET, public newsgroups, and the role of MVP's.
> The mere fact that you would include MVP's in the same sentence with "rule
> of marketing" testifies to that lack of understanding. Read more thoroughly
> and think more carefully before you post your accusations.
> --
> Russ Valentine
> [MVP-Outlook]
> <dkldkl2.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1174172066.616047.47570@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> > As a loyal Microsoft customer I find it very sad to read all the MVP
> > replies.
> >
> > A basic rule of marketing is "the customer is always right". I am a
> > long-time customer, and I feel like I have been ripped off when a
> > feature which was available in Windows XP is no longer available in
> > the regular (or "cheap" if you like) versions of Windows Vista.
> >
> > You can say as long as you want "read the fine-prints", "if you had
> > downloaded the large but free product manual you would have seen
> > that". However I do not read the fine prints of any product I buy. I
> > did read the comparison table at the Windows Vista home page, and it
> > said nothing about faxing. I have never planned to read a "large but
> > free" manual before making a choice of which version to buy.
> >
> > You are calling the customers' complaints "bitching". This is very
> > insulting. It really feels like talking to a monopoly - "who cares
> > what the customer thinks, you should have known better." I know you
> > guys are not working for Microsoft, but you are holding a title given
> > by it and you do represent Microsoft in this newsgroup.
> >
> > This is not the kind of attitude I am expecting to see from MVPs. You
> > can be helpful, link to alternative fax programs. If you can't be
> > helpful, you can just not reply.
> >
> > On Mar 17, 2:49 pm, "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" <russ....TakeThisOut@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >> To continue to warn those who are considering updating to Vista to read
> >> the
> >> fine print before they do. Those users who most frequently use the
> >> WindowsFaxproduct will now be left without it if they don't. Users for
> >> whom faxing
> >> is important should stay with XP. I see a lot of folks who rush to the
> >> latest releases just assuming it will be better or have more
> >> features--not
> >> always true.
> >> It is not realistic to post here and expect anyone here to be able to
> >> provide a solution for this issue. Microsoft does not monitor these
> >> groups,
> >> but it may still be reasonable to post your individual protest and leave
> >> it
> >> at that. Sometimes they do "mine the data" here when considering future
> >> policies. I can't help but wonder that they aren't a bit surprised by
> >> finding out how many people actually used and valued thefaxmodule.
> >> --
> >> Russ Valentine
> >> [MVP-Outlook]"Brian" <Brian @discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> >>
> >> news:2BD893E7-317B-4193-A888-992783D4B1FA@microsoft.com...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> >I agree with Susan. I need MicrosoftFax. I can't believe MS left it
> >> >out
> >> >of
> >> > Home Premium. Total BS. As for the Know It All, why post your smart
> >> > a$$
> >> > remarks on here?- Hide quoted text -
> >>
> >> - Show quoted text -
> >
> >
>
>
>

Thank you for the information. I have been trying unsuccessfully (now I know
why) to get the fax to work on our VISTA PC (with Home Premium). At least
now I know not to waste more time. By the way, we bought the new VISTA PC
because our XP PC crashed (burnt out motherboard we were told) the end of
January. We were informed the VISTA would have the basic XP items plus be
faster/better etc. In the past, we have been one of the last to buy a new
item. Again, thank you for the information and taking time to inform us.

"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote:

> You seem not understand USENET, public newsgroups, and the role of MVP's.
> The mere fact that you would include MVP's in the same sentence with "rule
> of marketing" testifies to that lack of understanding. Read more thoroughly
> and think more carefully before you post your accusations.
> --
> Russ Valentine
> [MVP-Outlook]
> <dkldkl2 DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1174172066.616047.47570@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> > As a loyal Microsoft customer I find it very sad to read all the MVP
> > replies.
> >
> > A basic rule of marketing is "the customer is always right". I am a
> > long-time customer, and I feel like I have been ripped off when a
> > feature which was available in Windows XP is no longer available in
> > the regular (or "cheap" if you like) versions of Windows Vista.
> >
> > You can say as long as you want "read the fine-prints", "if you had
> > downloaded the large but free product manual you would have seen
> > that". However I do not read the fine prints of any product I buy. I
> > did read the comparison table at the Windows Vista home page, and it
> > said nothing about faxing. I have never planned to read a "large but
> > free" manual before making a choice of which version to buy.
> >
> > You are calling the customers' complaints "bitching". This is very
> > insulting. It really feels like talking to a monopoly - "who cares
> > what the customer thinks, you should have known better." I know you
> > guys are not working for Microsoft, but you are holding a title given
> > by it and you do represent Microsoft