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Accessing the "Application Data" folder in my user account?

 
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Barefoot1976
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Since: Aug 13, 2006
Posts: 9



PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 1:55 pm    Post subject: Accessing the "Application Data" folder in my user account?
Archived from groups: microsoft>public>windows>vista>administration_accounts_passwords (more info?)

I need to access the Ap data folder in my user account which has full control
priv's. When clicking the folder It gives me an access denied pop-up with a
button to edit the secutity settings. What's the story? Every thing I've
tried with the security dialogs end up with an "error" message, stating that
it failed, and a registry entry corrupt warning that disables the registry
key?. I installed a program that wrote files to the folder, but failed to
actually install, so I either want to delete the files or see if I can get
the programs' intall routine to run. Anybody else run into this? The "user"
account shows all of the boxes checked except the last one which is labled
"apecial permission" and I go to the advanced button to check it's settings
out and all of the boxes ar checked off there. Any comments or help will
be appreciated.

Barefoot
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Jimmy Brush
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Since: Jun 23, 2006
Posts: 1214



PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Accessing the "Application Data" folder in my user account? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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The "Application Data" folder has been renamed to AppData.

Many folders used by earlier versions of Windows have been moved to a new
location or given a new name in Windows Vista. However, the old folders can
still be seen if you have enabled Show Hidden Files.

Notice they are displayed with a transparent icon and a shortcut symbol.

Although these look like folders, they are actually what is known as a
junction. Junctions behave like shortcuts, but look just like regular
folders.

Their purpose is to silently redirect programs that access them to their
Windows Vista equivalent.

Since junctions aren't really folders, it is not possible to access them,
and any attempt to do so will give you an "Access Denied" error.


- JB

Vista Support FAQ
http://www.jimmah.com/vista/
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Barefoot1976
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Since: Aug 13, 2006
Posts: 9



PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Accessing the "Application Data" folder in my user account? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Great! So back to my delima. Here's what I did. I tried to install a demo
(full) version of Nero Ultra from my latest MaximumPC cd. The display shows
that it was installing to my "D:\documentsand settings\user\applicationdata"
folder. Then after it downloaded the files-Nothing! I thought maybe the
installation app needed to be ran from the HD, but I cannot find where the
files went. Any Ideas?
"Jimmy Brush" wrote:

> The "Application Data" folder has been renamed to AppData.
>
> Many folders used by earlier versions of Windows have been moved to a new
> location or given a new name in Windows Vista. However, the old folders can
> still be seen if you have enabled Show Hidden Files.
>
> Notice they are displayed with a transparent icon and a shortcut symbol.
>
> Although these look like folders, they are actually what is known as a
> junction. Junctions behave like shortcuts, but look just like regular
> folders.
>
> Their purpose is to silently redirect programs that access them to their
> Windows Vista equivalent.
>
> Since junctions aren't really folders, it is not possible to access them,
> and any attempt to do so will give you an "Access Denied" error.
>
>
> - JB
>
> Vista Support FAQ
> http://www.jimmah.com/vista/
>
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Jimmy Brush
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Since: Jun 23, 2006
Posts: 1214



PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Accessing the "Application Data" folder in my user account? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

d:\users\user\appdata\roaming\

- JB

Vista Support FAQ
http://www.jimmah.com/vista/
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Barefoot1976
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Since: Aug 13, 2006
Posts: 9



PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Accessing the "Application Data" folder in my user account? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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I went there, but there was no evidence of the Nero program. However
(following your lead) I went to the "local" folder\temp\ and found a folder
for neroDemo9936. It has a Cab folder, Redist folder, and Setup folder.
Tried running the exe file and got an error message that the program failed
to install correctly and gave me an option to retry. I did and got a windows
installer box which apparently is telling me the program cannot install as
is, some of the syntax needs to be repaired. Neat!

"Jimmy Brush" wrote:

> d:\users\user\appdata\roaming\
>
> - JB
>
> Vista Support FAQ
> http://www.jimmah.com/vista/
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Jimmy Brush
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Since: Jun 23, 2006
Posts: 1214



PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Accessing the "Application Data" folder in my user account? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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If the setup program did not ask you for permission to continue when it
started, you could try running the setup program as administrator by
right-clicking it and clicking Run As Administrator.

Some programs (especially install programs) get confused when running under
Windows Vista because of the user account control restrictions.

- JB

Vista Support FAQ
http://www.jimmah.com/vista/
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Barefoot1976
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Since: Aug 13, 2006
Posts: 9



PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Accessing the "Application Data" folder in my user account? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Which I did (again following some of your other posts elsewhere) and It
ran. However the softkey that was provided came up expired! Go figure! I was
wanting to see if Ultra 7 worked with vista (as I have a lot of software that
won't, and some hardware also) so that I may take advantage of my new DVD
burner.
Again, thanks for the input. I see that it may take me a while to get
back up to speed with this new windows to where I was with XP Wink I think at
this time the real problem with Vista is NOT vista, but rather third party.
For instance" where vista readily recognizes my HP laserjet 3015 and will
print, The rest of the unit can't be used because the scanner and fax
software for it won't work with Vista, and HP has no replacement software in
the works yet. Same for the Nvidia graphics card I have. It is working with
the drivers that came with vista, but there is nothing from MSI (card manf.)
Barefoot



"Jimmy Brush" wrote:

> If the setup program did not ask you for permission to continue when it
> started, you could try running the setup program as administrator by
> right-clicking it and clicking Run As Administrator.
>
> Some programs (especially install programs) get confused when running under
> Windows Vista because of the user account control restrictions.
>
> - JB
>
> Vista Support FAQ
> http://www.jimmah.com/vista/
>
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Jimmy Brush
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Since: Jun 23, 2006
Posts: 1214



PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Accessing the "Application Data" folder in my user account? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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<snip>
> I think at
> this time the real problem with Vista is NOT vista, but rather third
> party.

Agreed.

- JB

Vista Support FAQ
http://www.jimmah.com/vista/
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Ian
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Since: Aug 17, 2006
Posts: 61



PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 5:17 am    Post subject: Re: Accessing the "Application Data" folder in my user account? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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I'm not sure the junction explanation is the full story. I find that
"Application Data" inside "C:\Users\<user>\Local Settings" seems to act as if
it were a cyclic reference to itself.

In other words after a few double-clicks you have:

"C:\Users\<user>\Local Settings\Application Data\Application
Data\Application Data\Application Data\Application Data\Application
Data\Application Data\Application Data\...." until you run into a Path Too
Long warning.

There is clearly something wrong here.
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Jimmy Brush
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Since: Jun 23, 2006
Posts: 1214



PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 10:39 am    Post subject: Re: Accessing the "Application Data" folder in my user account? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

This actually is explained completely by the behavior of junctions - and I
would assume that this is one of the reasons that the shell denies access to
junctions (by default).

"c:\users\USER\Local Settings" is a junction that points to
"c:\users\USER\AppData\Local"
"c:\users\USER\AppData\Local\Application Data" is a junction that points to
the same place.

Here's why...

in Windows XP, the "c:\Documents and Settings\USER\Local Settings" folder
contains a folder named "Application Data" .... but as it turns out, in
Windows Vista, both the "Local Settings" and "Application Data" folders have
been replaced by a single folder "c:\users\USER\AppData\Local".

Which creates a problem ... how do you replace a folder that contains
another folder with just one folder?

Well, in order to support Windows XP applications that access "c:\documents
and settings\USER\Local Settings\Application Data", there is a junction
inside the "c:\users\USER\AppData\Local" folder (where Local Settings points
to) called "Application Data" that points back to itself ... creating a kind
of paradox, as you described.

Here's how it works:

Application accesses "c:\documents and settings\USER\Local
Settings\Application Data\mysettings.file"

Windows goes thru each part of the path, and if it hits a junction it looks
for the next chunk of the path inside the folder that the junction points
to.

So:

- it hits Documents and Settings (junction), and looks for USER inside of
the c:\Users\ folder (target of junction)
- it finds the USER folder (normal folder)
- it hits Local Settings (junction), and looks for Application Data inside
c:\users\USER\AppData\Local (target of junction)
- It hits Application Data (junction), and looks for mysettings.file inside
c:\users\USER\AppData\Local (target of junction)

If the "Application Data" junction wasn't there pointing back to itself,
applications trying to access the old Windows XP location would not work.

Very confusing indeed.

- JB

Vista Support FAQ
http://www.jimmah.com/vista/
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Ian
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Since: Aug 17, 2006
Posts: 61



PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Accessing the "Application Data" folder in my user account? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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OK, so I've looked at this a bit more since last visit... and I just don't
buy that explanation.

No-one with any sense would deliberately create a cyclic reference within a
directory-strucure, be it on Linux or Vista.

Apart from the sheer confusion, think about the backup-issues: If any
program tries to backup the user's profile it will get stuck in an endless
loop. An OS on which it's not possible to backup your data by any
conventional means? Nope.
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Jimmy Brush
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Since: Jun 23, 2006
Posts: 1214



PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:22 am    Post subject: Re: Accessing the "Application Data" folder in my user account? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Well, that's the way it is Smile


--
- JB

Vista Support FAQ
http://www.jimmah.com/vista/
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