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Can I get "Step by step" on color seperating for commercia.. - help 2

 
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Greg
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Since: Apr 11, 2006
Posts: 101



PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:08 am    Post subject: Can I get "Step by step" on color seperating for commercial printi
Archived from groups: microsoft>public>publisher>prepress (more info?)

This is kind of an extension on my previous message but I feel it would help
a lot more. Can someone give me a quick step by step on making a document
with text and photo into a press quality color seperated piece using PMS
colors and process black? Or maybe point me to a site that can give step by
step on that stuff?
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Matt Beals
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Since: Aug 27, 2006
Posts: 108



PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Can I get "Step by step" on color separating for commercial [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On 4/10/07 7:08 AM, in article
EC4160BB-18D3-4274-B7D2-8BDB40A1A0DD@microsoft.com, "Greg"
wrote:

> This is kind of an extension on my previous message but I feel it would help
> a lot more. Can someone give me a quick step by step on making a document
> with text and photo into a press quality color seperated piece using PMS
> colors and process black? Or maybe point me to a site that can give step by
> step on that stuff?

The only way to do it is to print as separations. Printing composite
everything goes RGB. It should be better with Publisher 2003 and 2007 using
the commercial printing tools, but alas it is not. I think it was in
Publisher 2003 that they got away from the separations themselves from being
send as RGB gray which cause a ton of problems.

Short answer, there is no "easy" way of getting composite PDF's to come with
spot colors. Enfocus PitStop can go a long ways to making it easier, but
that doesn't mean it is "easy" even then.

Matt Beals
Consultant
Enfocus Certified Trainer
Markzware Recognized Trainer
(206) 201-2320 - Main
(720) 367-3869 - eFax
mailto:matt@mattbeals.com

Come visit me at:

http://www.automatetheworkflow.com
http://www.mattbeals.com
http://blog.mattbeals.com

Friends don't let friends write HTML email
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Greg
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Since: Apr 11, 2006
Posts: 101



PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Can I get "Step by step" on color separating for commercial pr [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Im not suprised by that answer, im using 2003 btw. InDesign is my preferred
tool but in my job, im dealing files sent in by people that use whatever they
have and unfortunatly publisher is what people have most...painful!

I thought I heard that Microsoft had a program coming out soon that would
focus more on commercial use and compete with programs like InDesign and
Quark and such, anyone heard anything about that?

"Matt Beals" wrote:

> On 4/10/07 7:08 AM, in article
> EC4160BB-18D3-4274-B7D2-8BDB40A1A0DD@microsoft.com, "Greg"
> wrote:
>
> > This is kind of an extension on my previous message but I feel it would help
> > a lot more. Can someone give me a quick step by step on making a document
> > with text and photo into a press quality color seperated piece using PMS
> > colors and process black? Or maybe point me to a site that can give step by
> > step on that stuff?
>
> The only way to do it is to print as separations. Printing composite
> everything goes RGB. It should be better with Publisher 2003 and 2007 using
> the commercial printing tools, but alas it is not. I think it was in
> Publisher 2003 that they got away from the separations themselves from being
> send as RGB gray which cause a ton of problems.
>
> Short answer, there is no "easy" way of getting composite PDF's to come with
> spot colors. Enfocus PitStop can go a long ways to making it easier, but
> that doesn't mean it is "easy" even then.
>
> Matt Beals
> Consultant
> Enfocus Certified Trainer
> Markzware Recognized Trainer
> (206) 201-2320 - Main
> (720) 367-3869 - eFax
> mailto:matt@mattbeals.com
>
> Come visit me at:
>
> http://www.automatetheworkflow.com
> http://www.mattbeals.com
> http://blog.mattbeals.com
>
> Friends don't let friends write HTML email
>
>
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anyone
External


Since: Jan 31, 2006
Posts: 9



PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Can I get "Step by step" on color separating for commercial pr [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

I spent some time with Adobe Tech support on this one (as well as in this
group). Acrobat can make the conversion, although it is not quite
documented.
In that you have ID, do you have Acrobat, Full? Pro? version 6, 7 or 8?
I have a batch process set up with Acrobat 8, can check if it is built into
6 or 7.
BTW, we've been able to cram everything to 100%K except anything converted
to WordArt out of Publisher 2003; just rec'd 2007 this a.m.


"Greg" wrote in message

> Im not suprised by that answer, im using 2003 btw. InDesign is my
> preferred
> tool but in my job, im dealing files sent in by people that use whatever
> they
> have and unfortunatly publisher is what people have most...painful!
>
> I thought I heard that Microsoft had a program coming out soon that would
> focus more on commercial use and compete with programs like InDesign and
> Quark and such, anyone heard anything about that?
>
> "Matt Beals" wrote:
>
>> On 4/10/07 7:08 AM, in article
>> EC4160BB-18D3-4274-B7D2-8BDB40A1A0DD@microsoft.com, "Greg"
>> wrote:
>>
>> > This is kind of an extension on my previous message but I feel it would
>> > help
>> > a lot more. Can someone give me a quick step by step on making a
>> > document
>> > with text and photo into a press quality color seperated piece using
>> > PMS
>> > colors and process black? Or maybe point me to a site that can give
>> > step by
>> > step on that stuff?
>>
>> The only way to do it is to print as separations. Printing composite
>> everything goes RGB. It should be better with Publisher 2003 and 2007
>> using
>> the commercial printing tools, but alas it is not. I think it was in
>> Publisher 2003 that they got away from the separations themselves from
>> being
>> send as RGB gray which cause a ton of problems.
>>
>> Short answer, there is no "easy" way of getting composite PDF's to come
>> with
>> spot colors. Enfocus PitStop can go a long ways to making it easier, but
>> that doesn't mean it is "easy" even then.
>>
>> Matt Beals
>> Consultant
>> Enfocus Certified Trainer
>> Markzware Recognized Trainer
>> (206) 201-2320 - Main
>> (720) 367-3869 - eFax
>> mailto:matt@mattbeals.com
>>
>> Come visit me at:
>>
>> http://www.automatetheworkflow.com
>> http://www.mattbeals.com
>> http://blog.mattbeals.com
>>
>> Friends don't let friends write HTML email
>>
>>
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Matt Beals
External


Since: Aug 27, 2006
Posts: 108



PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Can I get "Step by step" on color separating for commercial pr [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

While it is true that Acrobat can accommodate many of the prepress functions
necessary to deal with Publisher it is still lacking in several areas when
compared to Enfocus PitStop or Callas pdfColorConvert.

PitStop is that all inclusive preflighting and editing tool. While
pdfColorConvert is particularly tailored to deal with color space
conversions. It is particularly well suited for converting Office PDF's to
CMYK because Callas has specifically engineered pdfColorConvert to deal with
Office RGB in a better way. None of the other color conversion tools do it
nearly as well. Even the RGB to CMYK color conversion that Adobe does from
within Acrobat Pro.

One of the downsides to using Acrobat for all the functions is that
everything you need is kind of scattered all about. There isn't one
intuitive dialog box that contains the prepress functions. That is until
Acrobat 8 came along when Adobe introduced "fixups" as part of preflighting.
Callas makes the preflighting engine and automates the "fixups" that are
performed by Adobe. So now it is significantly easier. But you still have
the problem of inferior color separations coming from Adobe when compared to
Callas.

On the other hand with Callas and Adobe doing the color space
transformations you do *not* have the ability to take an RGB document and
make it spot color. With PitStop you can do this.

On the other hand (now isn't that redundant?) with PitStop and Acrobat 8 you
cannot detect and fix RGB gray images like you can with pdfColorConvert.
That is usually reserved for $10,000 or more color servers.

No one thing does it all best. It really is a little of everything to deal
with PDF's best.

Matt Beals
Consultant
Enfocus Certified Trainer
Markzware Recognized Trainer
(206) 201-2320 - Main
(720) 367-3869 - eFax
mailto:matt@mattbeals.com

Come visit me at:

http://www.automatetheworkflow.com
http://www.mattbeals.com
http://blog.mattbeals.com

Friends don't let friends write HTML email

On 4/10/07 3:05 PM, in article
88udnXMAOqp8lIHbnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com, "anyone"
wrote:

> I spent some time with Adobe Tech support on this one (as well as in this
> group). Acrobat can make the conversion, although it is not quite
> documented.
> In that you have ID, do you have Acrobat, Full? Pro? version 6, 7 or 8?
> I have a batch process set up with Acrobat 8, can check if it is built into
> 6 or 7.
> BTW, we've been able to cram everything to 100%K except anything converted
> to WordArt out of Publisher 2003; just rec'd 2007 this a.m.
>
>
> "Greg" wrote in message
>
>> Im not suprised by that answer, im using 2003 btw. InDesign is my
>> preferred
>> tool but in my job, im dealing files sent in by people that use whatever
>> they
>> have and unfortunatly publisher is what people have most...painful!
>>
>> I thought I heard that Microsoft had a program coming out soon that would
>> focus more on commercial use and compete with programs like InDesign and
>> Quark and such, anyone heard anything about that?
>>
>> "Matt Beals" wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/10/07 7:08 AM, in article
>>> EC4160BB-18D3-4274-B7D2-8BDB40A1A0DD@microsoft.com, "Greg"
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is kind of an extension on my previous message but I feel it would
>>>> help
>>>> a lot more. Can someone give me a quick step by step on making a
>>>> document
>>>> with text and photo into a press quality color seperated piece using
>>>> PMS
>>>> colors and process black? Or maybe point me to a site that can give
>>>> step by
>>>> step on that stuff?
>>>
>>> The only way to do it is to print as separations. Printing composite
>>> everything goes RGB. It should be better with Publisher 2003 and 2007
>>> using
>>> the commercial printing tools, but alas it is not. I think it was in
>>> Publisher 2003 that they got away from the separations themselves from
>>> being
>>> send as RGB gray which cause a ton of problems.
>>>
>>> Short answer, there is no "easy" way of getting composite PDF's to come
>>> with
>>> spot colors. Enfocus PitStop can go a long ways to making it easier, but
>>> that doesn't mean it is "easy" even then.
>>>
>>> Matt Beals
>>> Consultant
>>> Enfocus Certified Trainer
>>> Markzware Recognized Trainer
>>> (206) 201-2320 - Main
>>> (720) 367-3869 - eFax
>>> mailto:matt@mattbeals.com
>>>
>>> Come visit me at:
>>>
>>> http://www.automatetheworkflow.com
>>> http://www.mattbeals.com
>>> http://blog.mattbeals.com
>>>
>>> Friends don't let friends write HTML email
>>>
>>>
>
>
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Odysseus
External


Since: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 33



PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Can I get "Step by step" on color separating for commercial pr [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article ,
Matt Beals wrote:

<snip>
>
> On the other hand (now isn't that redundant?) with PitStop and Acrobat 8 you
> cannot detect and fix RGB gray images like you can with pdfColorConvert.
> That is usually reserved for $10,000 or more color servers.

I do that all the time using PitStop Pro 6.1 in Acrobat 6 (under Mac OS
10.3.9). Has something broken in more recent versions?

--
Odysseus
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Matt Beals
External


Since: Aug 27, 2006
Posts: 108



PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Can I get "Step by step" on color separating for commercial pr [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On 5/1/07 7:12 PM, in article
odysseus1479-at-DF37CD.20123401052007@news.telus.net, "Odysseus"
wrote:

> In article ,
> Matt Beals wrote:
>
> <snip>
>>
>> On the other hand (now isn't that redundant?) with PitStop and Acrobat 8 you
>> cannot detect and fix RGB gray images like you can with pdfColorConvert.
>> That is usually reserved for $10,000 or more color servers.
>
> I do that all the time using PitStop Pro 6.1 in Acrobat 6 (under Mac OS
> 10.3.9). Has something broken in more recent versions?
No, you just can't detect RGB gray images in Acrobat or PitStop
automatically. PitStop and Acrobat will convert those to CMYK gray. I don't
mean the black channel of CMYK, I mean C,MY,Y and K (4-color gray) depending
on the profile used. If the profile has maximum GCR or uses UCR then the CMY
gets stripped out. But most profiles convert it to 4-color gray. Calls
pdfColorConvert has been programmed to over come this and look for RGB
images (raster images specifically speaking) and make them separation black.

Matt Beals
Consultant
Enfocus Certified Trainer
Markzware Recognized Trainer
(206) 201-2320 - Main
(720) 367-3869 - eFax
mailto:matt@mattbeals.com

Come visit me at:

http://www.automatetheworkflow.com
http://www.mattbeals.com
http://blog.mattbeals.com

Friends don't let friends write HTML email
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Odysseus
External


Since: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 33



PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 11:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Can I get "Step by step" on color separating for commercial pr [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article ,
Matt Beals wrote:

<snip>

> No, you just can't detect RGB gray images in Acrobat or PitStop
> automatically. PitStop and Acrobat will convert those to CMYK gray. I don't
> mean the black channel of CMYK, I mean C,MY,Y and K (4-color gray) depending
> on the profile used. If the profile has maximum GCR or uses UCR then the CMY
> gets stripped out. But most profiles convert it to 4-color gray. Calls
> pdfColorConvert has been programmed to over come this and look for RGB
> images (raster images specifically speaking) and make them separation black.

I'm not sure I follow you there, but colour management & profiles are
still pretty mysterious to me. (I'm used to working in CMYK 'by the
numbers', old-fashioned as that may be.) All I know is that after I've
done the colour conversion with PitStop the offending images end up
entirely in the black plate, where we want them, and they don't get
"screened back" the way greyscale composites usually do either.

--
Odysseus
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Matt Beals
External


Since: Aug 27, 2006
Posts: 108



PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 5:13 am    Post subject: Re: Can I get "Step by step" on color separating for commercial pr [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On 5/2/07 3:40 PM, in article
odysseus1479-at-2C1CD0.13402102052007@news.telus.net, "Odysseus"
wrote:

> In article ,
> Matt Beals wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> No, you just can't detect RGB gray images in Acrobat or PitStop
>> automatically. PitStop and Acrobat will convert those to CMYK gray. I don't
>> mean the black channel of CMYK, I mean C,MY,Y and K (4-color gray) depending
>> on the profile used. If the profile has maximum GCR or uses UCR then the CMY
>> gets stripped out. But most profiles convert it to 4-color gray. Calls
>> pdfColorConvert has been programmed to over come this and look for RGB
>> images (raster images specifically speaking) and make them separation black.
>
> I'm not sure I follow you there, but colour management & profiles are
> still pretty mysterious to me. (I'm used to working in CMYK 'by the
> numbers', old-fashioned as that may be.) All I know is that after I've
> done the colour conversion with PitStop the offending images end up
> entirely in the black plate, where we want them, and they don't get
> "screened back" the way greyscale composites usually do either.

It depends on the process being used. Either all PitStop and then what ever
processes (action lists or preflight profiles or interactively) or if you
are using Acrobat's convert colors function.

Matt Beals
Consultant
Enfocus Certified Trainer
Markzware Recognized Trainer
(206) 201-2320 - Main
(720) 367-3869 - eFax
mailto:matt@mattbeals.com

Come visit me at:

http://www.automatetheworkflow.com
http://www.mattbeals.com
http://blog.mattbeals.com

Friends don't let friends write HTML email
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