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DOCTYPE problems with scroll-bars

 
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uk_sailor
External


Since: Dec 06, 2005
Posts: 6



PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:01 am    Post subject: DOCTYPE problems with scroll-bars
Archived from groups: microsoft>public>frontpage>client (more info?)

When I incert the following DOCTYPE statement:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">

a left-right scroll bar appears at the bottom of the page when it is not
needed. I am using frames and in the frame properties I have ticked "When
needed" for scroll bars.

If I remove the DOCTYPE statement, the page displays perfectly.

Any help is much appreciated.
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Kathleen Anderson [MVP -
External


Since: Dec 17, 2003
Posts: 2191



PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:26 am    Post subject: Re: DOCTYPE problems with scroll-bars [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

URL?

--
~ Kathleen Anderson
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
Spider Web Woman Designs
web: http://www.spiderwebwoman.com/resources/


"uk_sailor" wrote in message

> When I incert the following DOCTYPE statement:
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
> "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">
>
> a left-right scroll bar appears at the bottom of the page when it is not
> needed. I am using frames and in the frame properties I have ticked "When
> needed" for scroll bars.
>
> If I remove the DOCTYPE statement, the page displays perfectly.
>
> Any help is much appreciated.
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uk_sailor
External


Since: Dec 06, 2005
Posts: 6



PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:26 am    Post subject: Re: DOCTYPE problems with scroll-bars [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

It's a new site that isn't published yet, so I am not able to give you the
URL.

"Kathleen Anderson [MVP - FrontPage]" wrote:

> URL?
>
> --
> ~ Kathleen Anderson
> Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
> Spider Web Woman Designs
> web: http://www.spiderwebwoman.com/resources/
>
>
> "uk_sailor" wrote in message
>
> > When I incert the following DOCTYPE statement:
> >
> > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
> > "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">
> >
> > a left-right scroll bar appears at the bottom of the page when it is not
> > needed. I am using frames and in the frame properties I have ticked "When
> > needed" for scroll bars.
> >
> > If I remove the DOCTYPE statement, the page displays perfectly.
> >
> > Any help is much appreciated.
>
>
>
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uk_sailor
External


Since: Dec 06, 2005
Posts: 6



PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:26 am    Post subject: Re: DOCTYPE problems with scroll-bars [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

I've now published it, but tagged it onto another website...

http://www.stingo.co.uk/nambiti/home.htm

Thanks for trying to help me.

"Kathleen Anderson [MVP - FrontPage]" wrote:

> URL?
>
> --
> ~ Kathleen Anderson
> Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
> Spider Web Woman Designs
> web: http://www.spiderwebwoman.com/resources/
>
>
> "uk_sailor" wrote in message
>
> > When I incert the following DOCTYPE statement:
> >
> > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
> > "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">
> >
> > a left-right scroll bar appears at the bottom of the page when it is not
> > needed. I am using frames and in the frame properties I have ticked "When
> > needed" for scroll bars.
> >
> > If I remove the DOCTYPE statement, the page displays perfectly.
> >
> > Any help is much appreciated.
>
>
>
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Murray
External


Since: Dec 08, 2004
Posts: 6448



PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:54 pm    Post subject: Re: DOCTYPE problems with scroll-bars [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

This is the wrong doctype to have on your interior pages -

<!doctype HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">

That should only be on the Frameset page - the interior pages should just be
HTML4.01 Transitional/Strict.

Also, your framebuster script is not working properly -

<body
onload="if(parent.frames[0]&&parent.frames['contents'].Go)parent.frames['contents'].Go();">

<font face="Calligraph421 BT">

This is not a websafe font - most will see TIMES/TIMES NEW ROMAN there.

And you *REALLY* should get rid of this non-functional stuff -

<script type="text/javascript" src="JavaScript/NoCopy.js"></script>

When I look at your page, I already have all of your images.

Do you know that most people will *not* see your Java applets in the top
frame? This means that the rotating image effect will be lost for them -
they will see a gray box there. That's because most people do not have the
Java engine installed. It hasn't been a part of windows since W98, I
believe. I'd strongly encourage you to get rid of the Java.

Finally, you could solve your problem completely by not using frames - nor
is there anything in the design of this page that would suggest frames as an
optimal solution. But I guess you are committed to it now.

For what it's worth, I do not see the horizontal scrollbar in FireFox or any
other modern browser. It's only apparent in IE. But you can try to fix
this by changing this -

<frame frameborder="0" framespacing="0" name="home" target="_self"
scrolling="auto"

to this -

<frame frameborder="0" framespacing="0" name="home" target="_self"

in your frameset page.

--
Murray
============

"uk_sailor" wrote in message

> I've now published it, but tagged it onto another website...
>
> http://www.stingo.co.uk/nambiti/home.htm
>
> Thanks for trying to help me.
>
> "Kathleen Anderson [MVP - FrontPage]" wrote:
>
>> URL?
>>
>> --
>> ~ Kathleen Anderson
>> Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
>> Spider Web Woman Designs
>> web: http://www.spiderwebwoman.com/resources/
>>
>>
>> "uk_sailor" wrote in message
>>
>> > When I incert the following DOCTYPE statement:
>> >
>> > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
>> > "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">
>> >
>> > a left-right scroll bar appears at the bottom of the page when it is
>> > not
>> > needed. I am using frames and in the frame properties I have ticked
>> > "When
>> > needed" for scroll bars.
>> >
>> > If I remove the DOCTYPE statement, the page displays perfectly.
>> >
>> > Any help is much appreciated.
>>
>>
>>
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Ronx
External


Since: Dec 12, 2003
Posts: 6002



PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:27 pm    Post subject: Re: DOCTYPE problems with scroll-bars [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

With a !doctype IE renders table cells, <divs> and other containers in
Standards mode, which is different to rendering in Quirks mode
without the !doctype.
<table cellpadding=2 cellspacing=0>
<tr>
<td width=100>...</td>

With a !doctype, the above cell will have a total width of 104px - the
cellpadding 2 x 2px, plus the cell content of 100px.
Without the !doctype, the cell will have a total width of 100px - The
cellpadding 2 x 2px, plus cell content of 96px.
With the !doctype, all (modern) browsers will render the table in the
same way, without it, rendering may be as for standards mode, or
otherwise.
See
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnie60/html/cssenhancements.asp
for details.
--
Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.
FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/


"Kathleen Anderson [MVP - FrontPage]" wrote
in message
> URL?
>
> --
> ~ Kathleen Anderson
> Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
> Spider Web Woman Designs
> web: http://www.spiderwebwoman.com/resources/
>
>
> "uk_sailor" wrote in message
>
> > When I incert the following DOCTYPE statement:
> >
> > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
> > "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">
> >
> > a left-right scroll bar appears at the bottom of the page when it
is not
> > needed. I am using frames and in the frame properties I have
ticked "When
> > needed" for scroll bars.
> >
> > If I remove the DOCTYPE statement, the page displays perfectly.
> >
> > Any help is much appreciated.
>
>
Back to top
Ronx
External


Since: Dec 12, 2003
Posts: 6002



PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:28 pm    Post subject: Re: DOCTYPE problems with scroll-bars [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

With a !doctype IE renders table cells, <divs> and other containers in
Standards mode, which is different to rendering in Quirks mode
without the !doctype.
<table cellpadding=2 cellspacing=0>
<tr>
<td width=100>...</td>

With a !doctype, the above cell will have a total width of 104px - the
cellpadding 2 x 2px, plus the cell content of 100px.
Without the !doctype, the cell will have a total width of 100px - The
cellpadding 2 x 2px, plus cell content of 96px.
With the !doctype, all (modern) browsers will render the table in the
same way, without it, rendering may be as for standards mode, or
otherwise.
See
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnie60/html/cssenhancements.asp
for details.
--
Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.
FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/




--
Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.
FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/


"uk_sailor" wrote in message

> When I incert the following DOCTYPE statement:
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
> "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">
>
> a left-right scroll bar appears at the bottom of the page when it is
not
> needed. I am using frames and in the frame properties I have ticked
"When
> needed" for scroll bars.
>
> If I remove the DOCTYPE statement, the page displays perfectly.
>
> Any help is much appreciated.
Back to top
uk_sailor
External


Since: Dec 06, 2005
Posts: 6



PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:28 pm    Post subject: Re: DOCTYPE problems with scroll-bars [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Thanks Ron, I'll whip out my abacus and add up my table and border widths and
see if that sorts it out. Will make another reply if the problem persists.

"Ronx" wrote:

> With a !doctype IE renders table cells, <divs> and other containers in
> Standards mode, which is different to rendering in Quirks mode
> without the !doctype.
> <table cellpadding=2 cellspacing=0>
> <tr>
> <td width=100>...</td>
>
> With a !doctype, the above cell will have a total width of 104px - the
> cellpadding 2 x 2px, plus the cell content of 100px.
> Without the !doctype, the cell will have a total width of 100px - The
> cellpadding 2 x 2px, plus cell content of 96px.
> With the !doctype, all (modern) browsers will render the table in the
> same way, without it, rendering may be as for standards mode, or
> otherwise.
> See
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnie60/html/cssenhancements.asp
> for details.
> --
> Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
> Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.
> FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
>
>
>
>
> --
> Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
> Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.
> FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
>
>
> "uk_sailor" wrote in message
>
> > When I incert the following DOCTYPE statement:
> >
> > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
> > "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">
> >
> > a left-right scroll bar appears at the bottom of the page when it is
> not
> > needed. I am using frames and in the frame properties I have ticked
> "When
> > needed" for scroll bars.
> >
> > If I remove the DOCTYPE statement, the page displays perfectly.
> >
> > Any help is much appreciated.
>
>
>
Back to top
uk_sailor
External


Since: Dec 06, 2005
Posts: 6



PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:28 pm    Post subject: Re: DOCTYPE problems with scroll-bars [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Ron, that didn't sort the problem out... I've read the microsoft link from
your reply, but sadly, it's way over my head.

Is it going to make that much difference if I just remove the DOCTYPE
statement?

Thanks
John

"Ronx" wrote:

> With a !doctype IE renders table cells, <divs> and other containers in
> Standards mode, which is different to rendering in Quirks mode
> without the !doctype.
> <table cellpadding=2 cellspacing=0>
> <tr>
> <td width=100>...</td>
>
> With a !doctype, the above cell will have a total width of 104px - the
> cellpadding 2 x 2px, plus the cell content of 100px.
> Without the !doctype, the cell will have a total width of 100px - The
> cellpadding 2 x 2px, plus cell content of 96px.
> With the !doctype, all (modern) browsers will render the table in the
> same way, without it, rendering may be as for standards mode, or
> otherwise.
> See
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnie60/html/cssenhancements.asp
> for details.
> --
> Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
> Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.
> FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
>
>
>
>
> --
> Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
> Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.
> FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
>
>
> "uk_sailor" wrote in message
>
> > When I incert the following DOCTYPE statement:
> >
> > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
> > "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">
> >
> > a left-right scroll bar appears at the bottom of the page when it is
> not
> > needed. I am using frames and in the frame properties I have ticked
> "When
> > needed" for scroll bars.
> >
> > If I remove the DOCTYPE statement, the page displays perfectly.
> >
> > Any help is much appreciated.
>
>
>
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Ronx
External


Since: Dec 12, 2003
Posts: 6002



PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:30 pm    Post subject: Re: DOCTYPE problems with scroll-bars [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Oops - this reply was meant for UK-sailor
--
Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.
FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/


"Ronx" wrote in message

> With a !doctype IE renders table cells, <divs> and other containers
in
> Standards mode, which is different to rendering in Quirks mode
> without the !doctype.
> <table cellpadding=2 cellspacing=0>
> <tr>
> <td width=100>...</td>
>
> With a !doctype, the above cell will have a total width of 104px -
the
> cellpadding 2 x 2px, plus the cell content of 100px.
> Without the !doctype, the cell will have a total width of 100px -
The
> cellpadding 2 x 2px, plus cell content of 96px.
> With the !doctype, all (modern) browsers will render the table in
the
> same way, without it, rendering may be as for standards mode, or
> otherwise.
> See
>
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnie60/html/cssenhancements.asp
> for details.
> --
> Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)
> Reply only to group - emails will be deleted unread.
> FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
>
>
> "Kathleen Anderson [MVP - FrontPage]"
wrote
> in message
> > URL?
> >
> > --
> > ~ Kathleen Anderson
> > Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
> > Spider Web Woman Designs
> > web: http://www.spiderwebwoman.com/resources/
> >
> >
> > "uk_sailor" wrote in message
> >
> > > When I incert the following DOCTYPE statement:
> > >
> > > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
> > > "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">
> > >
> > > a left-right scroll bar appears at the bottom of the page when
it
> is not
> > > needed. I am using frames and in the frame properties I have
> ticked "When
> > > needed" for scroll bars.
> > >
> > > If I remove the DOCTYPE statement, the page displays perfectly.
> > >
> > > Any help is much appreciated.
> >
> >
>
>
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