Cannot keep selection of German for spellcheck

Ritter197 · External Since: Jun 13, 2005 Posts: 6

Lately I notice that the spelling selection, after I make the selection for
a different language( German) and say OK, it does not keep the selected
language but
goes back to English. It was not always like that, but I noticed it more and
more often, it is very annoying.

This is with MSWord 2003 and WindowsXP, SP #2 .

Why would that be and how do I fix this?

Cindy M -WordMVP- · External Since: Jun 21, 2004 Posts: 1830

Hi Ritter197,

> Lately I notice that the spelling selection, after I make the selection for
> a different language( German) and say OK, it does not keep the selected
> language but
> goes back to English. It was not always like that, but I noticed it more and
> more often, it is very annoying.
>
> This is with MSWord 2003 and WindowsXP, SP #2 .
>
> Why would that be and how do I fix this?
>
If you'd continued the conversation we had, we might have come to a
resolution. I can almost guarantee you're not going to find anyone in these
groups who knows what's going on better than I.

Cindy Meister
INTER-Solutions, Switzerland
http://homepage.swissonline.ch/cindymeister (last update Jun 8 2004)
http://www.word.mvps.org

This reply is posted in the Newsgroup; please post any follow question or
reply in the newsgroup and not by e-mail Smile

Ritter197 · External Since: Jun 13, 2005 Posts: 6

Well, I can try, right?

I DID follow your instructions, read everything you posted on your site, BUT
still have the problem.

So, I was always under the impression that these newsgroups are here to
help. You tried, but it is as yet not working. So I will post again, OK ?

"Cindy M -WordMVP-" <C.Meister-C.DeleteThis@hispeed.ch> wrote in message
news:VA.0000ad0e.009b75ba@speedy...
> Hi Ritter197,
>
>> Lately I notice that the spelling selection, after I make the selection
>> for
>> a different language( German) and say OK, it does not keep the selected
>> language but
>> goes back to English. It was not always like that, but I noticed it more
>> and
>> more often, it is very annoying.
>>
>> This is with MSWord 2003 and WindowsXP, SP #2 .
>>
>> Why would that be and how do I fix this?
>>
> If you'd continued the conversation we had, we might have come to a
> resolution. I can almost guarantee you're not going to find anyone in
> these
> groups who knows what's going on better than I.
>
> Cindy Meister
> INTER-Solutions, Switzerland
> http://homepage.swissonline.ch/cindymeister (last update Jun 8 2004)
> http://www.word.mvps.org
>
> This reply is posted in the Newsgroup; please post any follow question or
> reply in the newsgroup and not by e-mail Smile

>

Cindy M -WordMVP- · External Since: Jun 21, 2004 Posts: 1830

Hi Ritter197,

> Well, I can try, right?
>
> I DID follow your instructions, read everything you posted on your site,
BUT
> still have the problem.
>
But did you read the follow up questions I posted in our discussion and
answer them? I don't see an answer, but in order to track down what the
problem might be on your installation, you'll need to answer those kinds of
questions at some point or other, as the "obvious answers" apparently don't
apply.

> So, I was always under the impression that these newsgroups are here to
> help. You tried, but it is as yet not working. So I will post again, OK ?
>
Sure... No skin off my nose if you don't want my help.

Cindy Meister
INTER-Solutions, Switzerland
http://homepage.swissonline.ch/cindymeister (last update Jun 8 2004)
http://www.word.mvps.org

This reply is posted in the Newsgroup; please post any follow question or
reply in the newsgroup and not by e-mail Smile

Ritter197 · External Since: Jun 13, 2005 Posts: 6

Well, Cindy. I never had any intention to "take any skin of your nose",
please believe me.

I also read all the various comments by you and others again last night and
went through their suggestions.

The one thing I changed is that I DID click on the little box to
"automatically detect the language" and what you know -- it all of a sudden
works. At least last night and all day to-day. I write in both English and
German and did a number of letters and each time it detected and when I used
Tools to check spelling, it did just that WITHOUT me first selecting the
language, which I had always done before last night.

I also had for weeks tried the Ctl and A to select all, then select
language, then Spell checking and then it almost always went back to
English. At those times I also had the box UNCHECKED to check language
automatically.

My thanks to all the good people who tried to help.

Now I just hope that all stays the way it is right now.

Regards
Ritter197
"Cindy M -WordMVP-" <C.Meister-C.TakeThisOut@hispeed.ch> wrote in message
news:VA.0000ad32.011bcac1@speedy...
> Hi Ritter197,
>
>> Well, I can try, right?
>>
>> I DID follow your instructions, read everything you posted on your site,
> BUT
>> still have the problem.
>>
> But did you read the follow up questions I posted in our discussion and
> answer them? I don't see an answer, but in order to track down what the
> problem might be on your installation, you'll need to answer those kinds
> of
> questions at some point or other, as the "obvious answers" apparently
> don't
> apply.
>
>> So, I was always under the impression that these newsgroups are here to
>> help. You tried, but it is as yet not working. So I will post again, OK ?
>>
> Sure... No skin off my nose if you don't want my help.
>
> Cindy Meister
> INTER-Solutions, Switzerland
> http://homepage.swissonline.ch/cindymeister (last update Jun 8 2004)
> http://www.word.mvps.org
>
> This reply is posted in the Newsgroup; please post any follow question or
> reply in the newsgroup and not by e-mail Smile

>

Cindy M -WordMVP- · External Since: Jun 21, 2004 Posts: 1830

Hi Ritter197,

> The one thing I changed is that I DID click on the little box to
> "automatically detect the language" and what you know -- it all of a sudden
> works. At least last night and all day to-day. I write in both English and
> German and did a number of letters and each time it detected and when I used
> Tools to check spelling, it did just that WITHOUT me first selecting the
> language, which I had always done before last night.
>
> I also had for weeks tried the Ctl and A to select all, then select
> language, then Spell checking and then it almost always went back to
> English. At those times I also had the box UNCHECKED to check language
> automatically.
>
> Now I just hope that all stays the way it is right now.
>
I'll cross my fingers and hold my thumbs... Generally, auto-detect for language
is a chancy thing, but if it works for you, then by all means Smile

Just a side note on the "techy stuff" going on behind the scenes here, in case
you ever do need to troubleshoot again. It's going to begin by repeating what's
in my article, but, if you have the time, do skim through to the conclusions at
the end.

1. When you start a new document, Word will compare its language default to the
Windows language.

2. If they match, Word will use the language defined by the Normal style of the
current template (usually, Normal.dot, unless you selected a different
template)

3. If they do NOT match, the Windows default language will be applied OVER the
Word default. ("Direct formatting")

This is the situation that usually causes the most problems, at least for
"document professionals", who expect to control the format with styles.
However, it's possible that this could be exactly what caused your problems,
especially now that, on reading your explanation above, I can picture how you
work.

Assuming your system is "language synchronized", all styles you use will be
picking up the Word default language, unless you've specified differently. So,
if you do Ctrl+A, then select a language, that will be applied over the style's
setting (like applying BOLD).

If you then apply, say, Heading 1, that will use the Word default language.
IOW, the language will "revert". And if you press Enter at the end of that
paragraph, the style of the new paragraph is automatically "Normal", and again
will have the Word default style.

Does that sound like what you were experiencing?

In this case, a "document professional" would have a set of templates and/or
style that are language-specific (i.e. one set for English, the other for
German) and choose the appropriate one as required. S/he would never, ever
select text and apply the style from Tools/Language/SEt language.

Obviously, this is more work than many who simply want to type and spellcheck
letters (rather than writing a handbook that has to be maintained over years,
say) care to deal with. That's the main reason MS introduced language
auto-detection, although it doesn't always work reliably for everyone
(English/French is a big problem, probably because many words are so similar).
And, if you rely on controlling languages using styles, the way auto-detect
works is a real PITA.

Unfortunately for you, most of the people who assist in these groups are
"professional documentation" oriented, which is why we never twigged before now
as to how and why you were running into problems. Ironically, an MS support
person probably would have hit on it immediately Smile

I'm sorry it took so long to get this straightened out, and sincerely hope it
works well for you from here on!

Cindy Meister
INTER-Solutions, Switzerland
http://homepage.swissonline.ch/cindymeister (last update Jun 8 2004)
http://www.word.mvps.org

This reply is posted in the Newsgroup; please post any follow question or reply
in the newsgroup and not by e-mail Smile

anon k · External Since: May 19, 2005 Posts: 10

Cindy M -WordMVP- wrote:

> In this case, a "document professional" would have a set of templates and/or
> style that are language-specific (i.e. one set for English, the other for
> German) and choose the appropriate one as required. S/he would never, ever
> select text and apply the style from Tools/Language/SEt language.

What would you suggest for scholarly or literary use, with multiple
languages in a single document, sometimes changing languages several
times within a single sentence? Language-specific templates seem to
assume one language at a time, from how you describe them.

Auto-detect seems to do a terrible job with that. Are there ways to
tweak the detection settings, or to train it to recognize more patterns?

Many who write like this will never use the grammar checker (given that
it gets good English terribly wrong, it has no hope in hell of handling
a mixed-language grammar) but it would be good to have the spelling
checker more functional than it currently is.

Opinicus · External Since: Nov 19, 2003 Posts: 157

"anon k" <nospam.TakeThisOut@nul.nul> wrote

> What would you suggest for scholarly or literary use, with
> multiple languages in a single document, sometimes
> changing languages several times within a single sentence?
> Language-specific templates seem to assume one language at
> a time, from how you describe them.
> Auto-detect seems to do a terrible job with that. Are
> there ways to tweak the detection settings, or to train it
> to recognize more patterns?
Not to my knowledge or experience.

I regularly work with documents incorporating English and
Turkish (and to a lesser degree French and German) text and
the only way to maintain my sanity is to turn auto-detect
off.

--
Bob

Kanyak's Doghouse
http://www.kanyak.com

Cindy M -WordMVP- · External Since: Jun 21, 2004 Posts: 1830

Hi Anon,

> What would you suggest for scholarly or literary use, with multiple
> languages in a single document, sometimes changing languages several
> times within a single sentence? Language-specific templates seem to
> assume one language at a time, from how you describe them.
>
> Auto-detect seems to do a terrible job with that. Are there ways to
> tweak the detection settings, or to train it to recognize more patterns?
>
Personally, what I would do would be

1. Make sure my system and Word languages are "synched"

2. Rename Normal.dot, then start Word to make sure I have a "clean" copy

3. Start Word and save the document that comes up as a template. Type
something in it (even a single character); this will make sure Word will
not try to override the default language when creating a new document,
even if the system languages go out of synch later.

4. Set up a series of styles, one for each language.

Generally, I'd leave the Normal style alone. I'd set up a base style for
each language (Normal_EN, Normal_DE, etc. for example) that's based on no
style, and I'd set the language for each of these to the appropriate
language.

Then, all other styles I may use I'd base on the appropriate "normal"
language style, or a style that derives from this style.

For text within a paragraph, I'd do something similar with CHARACTER
styles. You can, for example, define a character style, based on the
Default Paragraph Font character style, changing only the language. This
means, when you apply the style, it retains all the other formatting, but
the language would change.

Keeping track of, and using all these styles can be a challenge, but Word
does offer you some tools. You can, for example, assign styles to keyboard
shortcuts and toolbar buttons.

Cindy Meister
INTER-Solutions, Switzerland
http://homepage.swissonline.ch/cindymeister (last update Jun 8 2004)
http://www.word.mvps.org

This reply is posted in the Newsgroup; please post any follow question or
reply in the newsgroup and not by e-mail Smile

anon k · External Since: May 19, 2005 Posts: 10

Cindy M -WordMVP- wrote:
> Hi Anon,
>
>
>>What would you suggest for scholarly or literary use, with multiple
>>languages in a single document, sometimes changing languages several
>>times within a single sentence? Language-specific templates seem to
>>assume one language at a time, from how you describe them.
>>
>>Auto-detect seems to do a terrible job with that. Are there ways to
>>tweak the detection settings, or to train it to recognize more patterns?
>>
>
> Personally, what I would do would be
>
> 1. Make sure my system and Word languages are "synched"
>
> 2. Rename Normal.dot, then start Word to make sure I have a "clean" copy
>
> 3. Start Word and save the document that comes up as a template. Type
> something in it (even a single character); this will make sure Word will
> not try to override the default language when creating a new document,
> even if the system languages go out of synch later.
>
> 4. Set up a series of styles, one for each language.
>
> Generally, I'd leave the Normal style alone. I'd set up a base style for
> each language (Normal_EN, Normal_DE, etc. for example) that's based on no
> style, and I'd set the language for each of these to the appropriate
> language.
>
> Then, all other styles I may use I'd base on the appropriate "normal"
> language style, or a style that derives from this style.
>
> For text within a paragraph, I'd do something similar with CHARACTER
> styles. You can, for example, define a character style, based on the
> Default Paragraph Font character style, changing only the language. This
> means, when you apply the style, it retains all the other formatting, but
> the language would change.
>
> Keeping track of, and using all these styles can be a challenge, but Word
> does offer you some tools. You can, for example, assign styles to keyboard
> shortcuts and toolbar buttons.

That sounds just like my best idea too but, as you say, it's a challenge
to remember to apply the styles!

Cindy M -WordMVP- · External Since: Jun 21, 2004 Posts: 1830

Hi Anon,

> That sounds just like my best idea too but, as you say, it's a challenge
> to remember to apply the styles!
>
If you construct each language's "style chain" with some thought, you can
obviate some of the drudgery. Use the "Style for following paragraph"
consciously for combinations you know will occur regularly.

Cindy Meister
INTER-Solutions, Switzerland
http://homepage.swissonline.ch/cindymeister (last update Jun 8 2004)
http://www.word.mvps.org

This reply is posted in the Newsgroup; please post any follow question or
reply in the newsgroup and not by e-mail Smile