Seriously, has anybody ever seen a serious virus problem i..

RayLopez99 · External Since: Jan 09, 2009 Posts: 257

Seriously, has anybody seen--or even heard--of a serious virus
(including rootkit or malware) problem in Windows when using
commercial antivirus protection?

One of the claims of the Linux crowd is that such problems are
legion. But talking so some of the people at alt.comp.anti-virus I
get the impression such problems are rare.

Who is more right?

BTW, check out this PDF on AV software:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http://www.av-comparatives.org/images...ories/t

It compares 16 commercial programs, and finds Microsoft at #2,
catching 60% of all viruses (Avanti is #1 at 70%). And we're taking
about all viruses, some of which as so obscure I'm sure you'll never
seen one in the wild...

RL

trigonometry1972 · External Since: Jan 25, 2009 Posts: 6

On Mar 23, 12:51 am, RayLopez99 wrote:
> Seriously, has anybody seen--or even heard--of a serious virus
> (including rootkit or malware) problem in Windows when using
> commercial antivirus protection?
>
> One of the claims of the Linux crowd is that such problems are
> legion. But talking so some of the people at alt.comp.anti-virus I
> get the impression such problems are rare.
>
> Who is more right?
>
> BTW, check out this PDF on AV software:http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http://www.av-comparatives.org/image...
>
> It compares 16 commercial programs, and finds Microsoft at #2,
> catching 60% of all viruses (Avanti is #1 at 70%). And we're taking
> about all viruses, some of which as so obscure I'm sure you'll never
> seen one in the wild...
>
> RL

What ever you do don't get Panda AV software, IMO.

trigonometry1972 · External Since: Jan 25, 2009 Posts: 6

On Mar 23, 12:51 am, RayLopez99 wrote:
> Seriously, has anybody seen--or even heard--of a serious virus
> (including rootkit or malware) problem in Windows when using
> commercial antivirus protection?
>
> One of the claims of the Linux crowd is that such problems are
> legion. But talking so some of the people at alt.comp.anti-virus I
> get the impression such problems are rare.
>
> Who is more right?
>
> BTW, check out this PDF on AV software:http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http://www.av-comparatives.org/image...
>
> It compares 16 commercial programs, and finds Microsoft at #2,
> catching 60% of all viruses (Avanti is #1 at 70%). And we're taking
> about all viruses, some of which as so obscure I'm sure you'll never
> seen one in the wild...
>
> RL

Pretty dismal results on the part of the payware AV programs.
~50 to 70 percent and that is being generous.

peterwn · External Since: Feb 06, 2010 Posts: 13

On Mar 23, 8:51 pm, RayLopez99 wrote:
> Seriously, has anybody seen--or even heard--of a serious virus
> (including rootkit or malware) problem in Windows when using
> commercial antivirus protection?
>

Yes. I had to clean up a Windows laptop last year despite things
being kept up to date and AV installed. The AV was bloody hopeless at
setecting it despite being kept up to date.

Peter KÃ¶hlmann · External Since: Mar 11, 2009 Posts: 200

RayLopez99 wrote:

> Seriously, has anybody seen--or even heard--of a serious virus
> (including rootkit or malware) problem in Windows when using
> commercial antivirus protection?

Yes

> One of the claims of the Linux crowd is that such problems are
> legion. But talking so some of the people at alt.comp.anti-virus I
> get the impression such problems are rare.
>
> Who is more right?

So the estimate that around 30% of all windows computers are infected is
"rare problems"

>
> BTW, check out this PDF on AV software:
> http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http://www.av-
comparatives.org/images/stories/test/ondret/avc_report22.pdf&usg=AFQjCNEDInyvV2WgWDzeAWeAjzJKLymkDA
>
> It compares 16 commercial programs, and finds Microsoft at #2,
> catching 60% of all viruses (Avanti is #1 at 70%). And we're taking
> about all viruses, some of which as so obscure I'm sure you'll never
> seen one in the wild...
>

In short, you brag about those new viruses found by AV software.
And then gallantly forget about those 31% to 86% *not* found.

That you are incredibly stupid has been proven time and again, the last
instances were your imbecile claims of "open source"

But this again shows that you are a lot dumber than dirt

And your problem obviously is that you are not just /acting/ dumb. You
*are* dumb. Incredibly dumb
--
I say you need to visit Clues 'R' Us. They are having a special on
slightly used clues.

Branimir Maksimovic · External Since: Feb 22, 2010 Posts: 16

On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 00:51:55 -0700 (PDT)
RayLopez99 wrote:

>
> It compares 16 commercial programs, and finds Microsoft at #2,
> catching 60% of all viruses (Avanti is #1 at 70%). And we're taking
> about all viruses, some of which as so obscure I'm sure you'll never
> seen one in the wild...

Hm, download http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads,
make virtual machine file, install os.
Make backup of file.
Surf the interent in virtual machine.
After serf, erase virtual machine file. Restore from backup.
Rinse and repeat. No need for AV at all Wink

Greets

--
http://maxa.homedns.org/

Sometimes online sometimes not

Felis silvestris · External Since: Feb 24, 2010 Posts: 5

On Tirsdag 23. mars 2010 09.20, Peter Köhlmann wrote:

> RayLopez99 wrote:
>
>> Seriously, has anybody seen--or even heard--of a serious virus
>> (including rootkit or malware) problem in Windows when using
>> commercial antivirus protection?
>
> Yes

*raises hand*
about 200 Windows desktops were knocked out at my latest $orkplace when
someone connected an infected laptop to the LAN. This was an office of one
of the world's largest outsourcing companies, well protected by commercial
AV systems.

It took the IT staff a few hours to clean up the mess. Unfortunately, we two
Linux users missed the opportunity to point out to the manglement that we
were able to continue working ...

>> One of the claims of the Linux crowd is that such problems are
>> legion. But talking so some of the people at alt.comp.anti-virus I
>> get the impression such problems are rare.

The incidence report from offices world wide was full of virus alerts and
attacks.

Peter · External Since: Mar 23, 2010 Posts: 7

In article , says...
> On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 00:51:55 -0700 (PDT)
> RayLopez99 wrote:
>
> >
> > It compares 16 commercial programs, and finds Microsoft at #2,
> > catching 60% of all viruses (Avanti is #1 at 70%). And we're taking
> > about all viruses, some of which as so obscure I'm sure you'll never
> > seen one in the wild...
>
> Hm, download http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads,
> make virtual machine file, install os.
> Make backup of file.
> Surf the interent in virtual machine.
> After serf, erase virtual machine file. Restore from backup.
> Rinse and repeat. No need for AV at all Wink

>

Have you heard of the expression, 'Using a sledgehammer to crack a
nut.'?

--
Pete Ives
Remove All_stRESS before sending me an email

Branimir Maksimovic · External Since: Feb 22, 2010 Posts: 16

On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 09:28:00 -0000
Peter wrote:

> In article , says...
> > On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 00:51:55 -0700 (PDT)
> > RayLopez99 wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > It compares 16 commercial programs, and finds Microsoft at #2,
> > > catching 60% of all viruses (Avanti is #1 at 70%). And we're
> > > taking about all viruses, some of which as so obscure I'm sure
> > > you'll never seen one in the wild...
> >
> > Hm, download http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads,
> > make virtual machine file, install os.
> > Make backup of file.
> > Surf the interent in virtual machine.
> > After serf, erase virtual machine file. Restore from backup.
> > Rinse and repeat. No need for AV at all Wink

> >
>
> Have you heard of the expression, 'Using a sledgehammer to crack a
> nut.'?
>
Remember alien 2 movie. They wanted to nuke whole planet to exterminate
aliens Wink

"to be sure"

Greets!

--
http://maxa.homedns.org/

Sometimes online sometimes not

larry moe 'n curly · External Since: Mar 22, 2007 Posts: 4

RayLopez99 wrote:

> Seriously, has anybody seen--or even heard--of a serious virus
> (including rootkit or malware) problem in Windows when using
> commercial antivirus protection?
>
> One of the claims of the Linux crowd is that such problems are
> legion. But talking so some of the people at alt.comp.anti-virus I
> get the impression such problems are rare.

I was running AVG ver. 8 and got some malware that hogged all the CPU
time. It caused operation to slow so much that I couldn't run the
computer and had to transfer the HD to a computer with a dual core
CPU. A full scan with AVG indicated the problem but couldn't fix it.
Norton detected nothing, and free online scans by Trend and PC Pit
Stop didn't fix it (I don't remember if they detected it), but Bit
Defender partially did, and the rest of the problem was solve with
either ComboFix or SmithFraudFix.

Leythos · External Since: Mar 23, 2010 Posts: 14

In article <8d9a4f53-14ac-40a3-9cb4-105fb0e08a00
@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>, says...
>
> Seriously, has anybody seen--or even heard--of a serious virus
> (including rootkit or malware) problem in Windows when using
> commercial antivirus protection?
>
> One of the claims of the Linux crowd is that such problems are
> legion. But talking so some of the people at alt.comp.anti-virus I
> get the impression such problems are rare.
>
> Who is more right?
>
> BTW, check out this PDF on AV software:
> http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http://www.av-comparatives.org/images...ories/t
>
> It compares 16 commercial programs, and finds Microsoft at #2,
> catching 60% of all viruses (Avanti is #1 at 70%). And we're taking
> about all viruses, some of which as so obscure I'm sure you'll never
> seen one in the wild...
>
> RL

In the 30+ years I've been working with computers I've had exactly 1
malware on a computer that I own or manage for clients - that's
thousands of workstations and hundreds of servers over that time.

In the case of the 1 malware, the machine was not secured, was basically
behind a NAT, using Local Admin, and was running Symantec End Point
Protection 11.0.4 (or 11.4.0, can't remember) - the malware gained
complete control of the machine in seconds after being redirected to a
malicious website.

I switched to Avira Antivir and connected to the same website and the
malware was blocked - I have moved myself and clients to Avira and not
had any infections.

We test with 5 malware scanners monthly.

--
You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little
voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.
Trust yourself.
spam999free DeleteThis @rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)

Lusotec · External Since: Feb 12, 2009 Posts: 199

RayLopez99 wrote:
> Seriously, has anybody seen--or even heard--of a serious virus
> (including rootkit or malware) problem in Windows when using
> commercial antivirus protection?

Yes I have, *many* *many* times!

There is nothing rare about a machine running up-to-date free or commercial
anti-virus software and still be fully compromised, usually with several
species of serious malware (e.g. root kits, key loggers, spam bots, ransom
ware, egold stealer).

Fully updated anti-virus software like Avast, AVG, Kapersky, f-prot, Norton,
etc, are by no means a guarantee of safety against malware.

> One of the claims of the Linux crowd is that such problems are
> legion. But talking so some of the people at alt.comp.anti-virus I
> get the impression such problems are rare.

You have a wrong impression about lots of subjects.

> Who is more right?

You certainly are not.

>BTW, check out this PDF on AV software:
>http://www.av->comparatives.org/images/stories/test/ondret/avc_report22.pdf
>
>It compares 16 commercial programs, and finds Microsoft at #2,
>catching 60% of all viruses (Avanti is #1 at 70%).

If the number one anti-virus catches *only* 70% of all viruses, then it lets
30% of them pass. That is just proof of failure, not success and definitely
not a rare occurrence.

>And we're taking about all viruses, some of which as so obscure I'm sure
>you'll never seen one in the wild...

The real problem are the new viruses, obviously, not known by the anti-virus
programs. The heuristics used by the anti-virus are also of little use to
detect new viruses since any capable virus developer can test his creation
against a good number of anti-virus and tweak the binary until it is not
detected.

Regards.

Branimir Maksimovic · External Since: Feb 22, 2010 Posts: 16

On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 11:33:43 +0000
Lusotec wrote:
>
> The real problem are the new viruses, obviously, not known by the
> anti-virus programs. The heuristics used by the anti-virus are also
> of little use to detect new viruses since any capable virus developer
> can test his creation against a good number of anti-virus and tweak
> the binary until it is not detected.
>
DOS was more secure than Windows is now. You had to know assembler
and understand DOS internals in order to write one.
Now everyone that knows Visual Basic can write
Windows virus Wink

> Regards.

Regards!

>

--
http://maxa.homedns.org/

Sometimes online sometimes not

SteveH · External Since: Mar 23, 2010 Posts: 6

RayLopez99 wrote:
> Seriously, has anybody seen--or even heard--of a serious virus
> (including rootkit or malware) problem in Windows when using
> commercial antivirus protection?
>

Seriously, are you having a laugh?

--
SteveH

RayLopez99 · External Since: Jan 09, 2009 Posts: 257

On Mar 23, 11:11 am, peterwn wrote:
> On Mar 23, 8:51 pm, RayLopez99 wrote:
>
> > Seriously, has anybody seen--or even heard--of a serious virus
> > (including rootkit or malware) problem in Windows when using
> > commercial antivirus protection?
>
> Yes. I had to clean up a Windows laptop last year despite things
> being kept up to date and AV installed. The AV was bloody hopeless at
> setecting it despite being kept up to date.

OK fine. Outlier. One in a million I would reckon.

Tell us what virus it was, as that info should not be confidential.
Unless it was so obscure that only one user, your client, had it.

Anybody else?

RL

RayLopez99 · External Since: Jan 09, 2009 Posts: 257

On Mar 23, 11:17 am, Felis silvestris
wrote:
> On Tirsdag 23. mars 2010 09.20, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>
> > RayLopez99 wrote:
>
> >> Seriously, has anybody seen--or even heard--of a serious virus
> >> (including rootkit or malware) problem in Windows when using
> >> commercial antivirus protection?
>
> > Yes
>
> *raises hand*
> about 200 Windows desktops were knocked out at my latest $orkplace when
> someone connected an infected laptop to the LAN. This was an office of one
> of the world's largest outsourcing companies, well protected by commercial
> AV systems.
>
> It took the IT staff a few hours to clean up the mess. Unfortunately, we two
> Linux users missed the opportunity to point out to the manglement that we
> were able to continue working ...
>
> >> One of the claims of the Linux crowd is that such problems are
> >> legion. But talking so some of the people at alt.comp.anti-virus I
> >> get the impression such problems are rare.
>
> The incidence report from offices world wide was full of virus alerts and
> attacks.

WHAT incidence report? Where is it?

WHAT virus infected 200 users? Unless it was a very uncommon or
unheard of virus that would give away the identity of your employer or
client, I would expect that you can provide me with an answer. If you
don't provide an answer, I understand it's such an obscure virus that
only your client/employer had it, so obviously you don't want to
identify them online. I don't expect an answer from you btw, for
obvious reasons (it was probably a one-in-a-million rare virus).

RL

RayLopez99 · External Since: Jan 09, 2009 Posts: 257

On Mar 23, 1:41 pm, Branimir Maksimovic wrote:
> DOS was more secure than Windows is now. You had to know assembler
> and understand DOS internals in order to write one.
> Now everyone that knows Visual Basic can write
> Windows virus Wink

Lies from Greater Serbia, eh? Yeah the Serbs, like the Greeks and
Russians, are great liars.

I know--I've lived in all three countries.

Doofus (DFS) knows Visual Basic and he can't write a virus. I know C#
and I can't write a virus (unless you mean a web app that will do
something harmless like pop up on your screen with a JavaScript like
confirm() and say "Boo!"--that's just a prank, not a real virus).

RL

RayLopez99 · External Since: Jan 09, 2009 Posts: 257

On Mar 23, 2:08 pm, Leythos wrote:
> In the 30+ years I've been working with computers I've had exactly 1
> malware on a computer that I own or manage for clients - that's
> thousands of workstations and hundreds of servers over that time.
>
> In the case of the 1 malware, the machine was not secured, was basically
> behind a NAT, using Local Admin, and was running Symantec End Point
> Protection 11.0.4 (or 11.4.0, can't remember) - the malware gained
> complete control of the machine in seconds after being redirected to a
> malicious website.
>
> I switched to Avira Antivir and connected to the same website and the
> malware was blocked - I have moved myself and clients to Avira and not
> had any infections.
>
> We test with 5 malware scanners monthly.

Thank you Sir. You are a scholar and a gentleman. A true voice of
reason in a wilderness of babbling buffoons and hominid baboons.

RL

RayLopez99 · External Since: Jan 09, 2009 Posts: 257

On Mar 23, 3:24 pm, "larry moe 'n curly"
wrote:

> I was running AVG ver. 8 and got some malware that hogged all the CPU
> time. It caused operation to slow so much that I couldn't run the
> computer and had to transfer the HD to a computer with a dual core
> CPU. A full scan with AVG indicated the problem but couldn't fix it.
> Norton detected nothing, and free online scans by Trend and PC Pit
> Stop didn't fix it (I don't remember if they detected it), but Bit
> Defender partially did, and the rest of the problem was solve with
> either ComboFix or SmithFraudFix.

What OS? What year? What was the name of the virus if I can ask?
That sounds incredible.

RL

RayLopez99 · External Since: Jan 09, 2009 Posts: 257

On Mar 23, 5:28 pm, Moshe wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 00:51:55 -0700 (PDT), RayLopez99 wrote:
> > Seriously, has anybody seen--or even heard--of a serious virus
> > (including rootkit or malware) problem in Windows when using
> > commercial antivirus protection?
>
> It happens all the time.
> Usually brought in from outside sources and when the person
> bypasses the checking.
>
> It's like everything else in the world, you can't prevent an idiot
> from circumventing the tools put in place to protect him.

Moshe, your examples are fine, but they are not what I'm talking
about. That's not a real example since the user deliberately
circumvented safeguards to keep out the virus from their system. In
other words, anybody can disable their AV software, or ignore repeated
warnings, and "install" the virus on their system deliberately (or
even 'accidentally' through negligence).

That's not a true virus infection.

RL