If you think selling Linux is easy, why not beat Dell to it?

OK · External Since: Jan 23, 2005 Posts: 213

http://technology.guardian.co.uk/weekly/story/0,,2028343,00.html

Just some quotes:

"...there are huge problems in offering Linux on mass-market PCs"

"The most obvious is deciding which version of Linux to offer ... the
lack of a standard is a real killer"

"The less obvious problem is the very high cost of Linux support"

"Linux has high overheads on minuscule sales"

"will the tens of thousands of Linux supporters "Digging" the idea on
IdeaStorm ever turn into paying customers? ... very few will. Worse,
those few are mostly the sort of buyer no-one really wants."

"What Dell really needs are more high-end gamers who buy top-spec PCs
in fancy cases for £2,500 or more, not low-end Linux users looking to
save £25 on Windows"

Those are just out of context quotes, be sure to check the article and
send your valuable remarks directly to the author:

http://technology.guardian.co.uk/weekly/story/0,,2028343,00.html
http://technology.guardian.co.uk/weekly/story/0,,2028343,00.html
http://technology.guardian.co.uk/weekly/story/0,,2028343,00.html
http://technology.guardian.co.uk/weekly/story/0,,2028343,00.html
http://technology.guardian.co.uk/weekly/story/0,,2028343,00.html

Kier · External Since: Feb 07, 2005 Posts: 2207

On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 13:00:38 +0100, OK wrote:

> http://technology.guardian.co.uk/weekly/story/0,,2028343,00.html
>
> Just some quotes:
>
> "...there are huge problems in offering Linux on mass-market PCs"
>
> "The most obvious is deciding which version of Linux to offer ... the
> lack of a standard is a real killer"
>
> "The less obvious problem is the very high cost of Linux support"
>
> "Linux has high overheads on minuscule sales"
>
> "will the tens of thousands of Linux supporters "Digging" the idea on
> IdeaStorm ever turn into paying customers? ... very few will. Worse,
> those few are mostly the sort of buyer no-one really wants."

This is garbage. Why does this idiot assume that Linux users don't want
nice hardware? In fact, if the cost of Windows is removed, that means more
money available to be spend on extra hardware.

>
> "What Dell really needs are more high-end gamers who buy top-spec PCs
> in fancy cases for £2,500 or more, not low-end Linux users looking to
> save £25 on Windows"

So, only gamers want decent PCs, and are worth having as customers? What
nonsense. Why is automatically assumed Linux users only want low-end
machines? It's complete bollocks. Users will buy what they need and
can afford. Most average users - who are going to be running Windows more
often than not - are not going to spend £2500 on a PC. £800-1000 is a
more likely mark for the ordinary consumer.

--
Kier

Hadron Quark · External Since: Apr 14, 2006 Posts: 1948

OK writes:

> http://technology.guardian.co.uk/weekly/story/0,,2028343,00.html
>
> Just some quotes:
>
> "...there are huge problems in offering Linux on mass-market PCs"

"There are more than 100 distros, and everybody seems to want a different
one - or the same one with a different desktop, or whatever."

Bwahaha. If only he knew the real number! Choice they yell!Eh? say
everyone else.

Jan Kandziora · External Since: Dec 25, 2004 Posts: 192

OK schrieb:

> http://technology.guardian.co.uk/weekly/story/0,,2028343,00.html
>
> Just some quotes:
>
----Schnipp----
>
I found a better one:

"The less obvious problem is the very high cost of Linux support, especially
when selling cheap PCs to naïve users who don't RTFM (read the friendly
manual) and wouldn't understand a Linux manual if they tried."

Well, he actually wrote the whole mass-market computer industry (e.g. DELL)
is built on naïve people. Explains a lot.

Kind regards

Jan

Reporter · External Since: Feb 12, 2007 Posts: 150

On Mar 12, 7:52 am, "Dr. GroundAxe " wrote:
> Jan Kandziora wrote:
> > OK schrieb:
>
> >>http://technology.guardian.co.uk/weekly/story/0,,2028343,00.html
>
> >> Just some quotes:
>
> > ----Schnipp----
> > I found a better one:
>
> > "The less obvious problem is the very high cost of Linux support, especially
> > when selling cheap PCs to naïve users who don't RTFM (read the friendly
> > manual) and wouldn't understand a Linux manual if they tried."
>
> > Well, he actually wrote the whole mass-market computer industry (e.g. DELL)
> > is built on naïve people. Explains a lot.
>
> > Kind regards
>
> > Jan
>
> Yeah, that's right. Linux weenies know more about the industry than the
> biggest computer manufacturer in the world. You guys are a joke.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Well said !

Dr. GroundAxe · External Since: Feb 02, 2007 Posts: 71

Jan Kandziora wrote:
> OK schrieb:
>
>> http://technology.guardian.co.uk/weekly/story/0,,2028343,00.html
>>
>> Just some quotes:
>>
> ----Schnipp----
> I found a better one:
>
> "The less obvious problem is the very high cost of Linux support, especially
> when selling cheap PCs to naïve users who don't RTFM (read the friendly
> manual) and wouldn't understand a Linux manual if they tried."
>
>
> Well, he actually wrote the whole mass-market computer industry (e.g. DELL)
> is built on naïve people. Explains a lot.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Jan

Yeah, that's right. Linux weenies know more about the industry than the
biggest computer manufacturer in the world. You guys are a joke.

Kier · External Since: Feb 07, 2005 Posts: 2207

On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 13:10:53 +0100, Hadron Quark wrote:

> OK writes:
>
>> http://technology.guardian.co.uk/weekly/story/0,,2028343,00.html
>>
>> Just some quotes:
>>
>> "...there are huge problems in offering Linux on mass-market PCs"
>
>
> "There are more than 100 distros, and everybody seems to want a different
> one - or the same one with a different desktop, or whatever."
>
>
> Bwahaha. If only he knew the real number! Choice they yell!Eh? say
> everyone else.

No, they don't, since effectively there are only a handful of distros
likely to be considered for this kind of enterprise. Red Hat, SUSE, and
Ubuntu, probably, with perhaps Debian itself. All of these are pretty well
proven.

--
Kier

B Gruff · External Since: Jun 17, 2004 Posts: 1639

On Monday 12 March 2007 12:00 OK wrote:

>
> "What Dell really needs are more high-end gamers who buy top-spec PCs
> in fancy cases for £2,500 or more, not low-end Linux users looking to
> save £25 on Windows"

Interestingly, you might like to look at *which* of their P.C.s Dell
actually offer with Linux.
Not the bottom end - always the top end of the range...

DFS · External Since: Jun 07, 2005 Posts: 3651

B Gruff wrote:
> On Monday 12 March 2007 12:00 OK wrote:
>
>>
>> "What Dell really needs are more high-end gamers who buy top-spec PCs
>> in fancy cases for Â£2,500 or more, not low-end Linux users looking
>> to save Â£25 on Windows"
>
> Interestingly, you might like to look at *which* of their P.C.s Dell
> actually offer with Linux.
> Not the bottom end - always the top end of the range...

Which ones actually sell?

Geico Caveman · External Since: Mar 07, 2007 Posts: 56

Unadulterated bullshit.

OK wrote:

> http://technology.guardian.co.uk/weekly/story/0,,2028343,00.html
>
> Just some quotes:
>
> "...there are huge problems in offering Linux on mass-market PCs"
>
> "The most obvious is deciding which version of Linux to offer ... the
> lack of a standard is a real killer"
>

"Standard" ?? Which is standard, Windows Vista Home or Ultimate or is it
some service pack or is it ... ?

The answer to the above non-issue is obvious. Pick a distro and run with it.
Take Ubuntu LTS and go. No one is going to fault you for that. Those that
want something else, will install it if they need to.

> "The less obvious problem is the very high cost of Linux support"

Given that the number of serious support incidents are going to be
vanishingly small (no malware, no lost data, no nothing), cost * number of
incidents could well be lower, if not the same as it is for windows.

>
> "Linux has high overheads on minuscule sales"

Grammatically correct. Makes no sense beyond that.

>
> "will the tens of thousands of Linux supporters "Digging" the idea on
> IdeaStorm ever turn into paying customers? ... very few will. Worse,
> those few are mostly the sort of buyer no-one really wants."

You sure you don't mean the sort of buyer Microsoft does not want ?

>
> "What Dell really needs are more high-end gamers who buy top-spec PCs
> in fancy cases for £2,500 or more, not low-end Linux users looking to
> save £25 on Windows"

That should be easy. Become a franchise for Sony's PlayStation - you will
get plenty of gamers.

BearItAll · External Since: Oct 06, 2004 Posts: 1713

OK wrote:

> <snipped most of it because others covered it well in this thread>

> "What Dell really needs are more high-end gamers who buy top-spec PCs
> in fancy cases for £2,500 or more, not low-end Linux users looking to
> save £25 on Windows"
>

Linux = £0.00
Vista = £199.00

Where does the £25 come into it?

There is another area where Dell might gain from this. Servers are very much
within budget for households these days, keeping Clare's uni work safe and
Billy's school homework backed up, using a single access route to the
Internet. Client independant print services, email services etc, also
streaming media around the home is increasing in popularity. Also, as the
Internet is the main market place for music now, let the server do the
downloads, no need to clog up client machines with that sort of work.

This is all within budget now, so why not start towards full home packages.

A family Dell Server - with Family-Redhat, family-SLES or Ubuntu server
onboard,
£200

Family wireless Notebooks, with FDC, SLED, Ubuntu or Mandriva,
£250 each

I haven't made those prices up, that is the price of one of Dell's servers
and a Dell notebook.

So a typical two parent family with 2 children, lets allow them two
computers and a server,
£700

Who could grumble at that price.

PS: Although that equipment is available now, at those prices on the Dell
web site, the price would have to go up a little. Although you get server
class hardware in the server above, which means it will likely last many
years and you will even move house without it because you have forgotten it
is there, the one I priced had a single drive, to keep everything properly
safe you either need a second physical drive added to it or an external
drive just to backup the family data. But the price on Dell's site shows
that you could do that for just an additional £72.

B Gruff · External Since: Jun 17, 2004 Posts: 1639

On Monday 12 March 2007 14:39 DFS wrote:

> B Gruff wrote:
>> On Monday 12 March 2007 12:00 OK wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "What Dell really needs are more high-end gamers who buy top-spec PCs
>>> in fancy cases for £2,500 or more, not low-end Linux users looking
>>> to save £25 on Windows"
>>
>> Interestingly, you might like to look at *which* of their P.C.s Dell
>> actually offer with Linux.
>> Not the bottom end - always the top end of the range...
>
> Which ones actually sell?

Frankly, I don't know DFS - I'm not privy to that information - are you?

I merely comment on the basis that:-

- It is said that Dell is going to offer PCs with Linux only if it can sell
them with Linux

- The OP quoted "What Dell really needs are more high-end gamers who buy
top-spec PCs in fancy cases for £2,500 or more, not low-end Linux users
looking to save £25 on Windows"

- I have noted that Dell offers only *high* end machines with Linux
pre-installed.

It seems reasonable to assume that Dell actually *sells* high-end machines
with Linux pre-installed, and also that both the OP ("OK") and the author
of the original document are a bit clueless if they think that the demand
is currently for high-spec Linux *games* machines!

user · External Since: Aug 14, 2005 Posts: 1447

asstroturfing fool OK wrote on behalf of micoshaft corporation:

> http://technology.guardian.co.uk/weekly/story/0,,2028343,00.html
>
> Just some quotes:
>
> "...there are huge problems in offering Linux on mass-market PCs"

You don't have to sell anything - its free.
You deploy it.

mike · External Since: Mar 02, 2007 Posts: 23

On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 13:00:38 +0100, OK wrote:

> http://technology.guardian.co.uk/weekly/story/0,,2028343,00.html
>
> Just some quotes:
>
> "...there are huge problems in offering Linux on mass-market PCs"
>
> "The most obvious is deciding which version of Linux to offer ... the
> lack of a standard is a real killer"
>
> "The less obvious problem is the very high cost of Linux support"
>
> "Linux has high overheads on minuscule sales"
>
> "will the tens of thousands of Linux supporters "Digging" the idea on
> IdeaStorm ever turn into paying customers? ... very few will. Worse,
> those few are mostly the sort of buyer no-one really wants."
>
> "What Dell really needs are more high-end gamers who buy top-spec PCs
> in fancy cases for £2,500 or more, not low-end Linux users looking to
> save £25 on Windows"
>
> Those are just out of context quotes, be sure to check the article and
> send your valuable remarks directly to the author:
>
> http://technology.guardian.co.uk/weekly/story/0,,2028343,00.html

imo, it's all a distraction designed to redirect attention away from the
obvious solution of selling PCs with *no* operating system. a person
should be able to go to dell's website, pick whatever machine they want
and then have the option to reduce the price by declining windows. in
other words, the price for windows should be shown as an option the same
as any other component. until dell & the other major pc vendors get to
that point, it is clear that microsoft is still monopolizing the OEMs
regardless of all the nonsensical rhetoric (from shills) that supposedly
proves otherwise.

B Gruff · External Since: Jun 17, 2004 Posts: 1639

On Monday 12 March 2007 18:23 mike wrote:

>
> imo, it's all a distraction designed to redirect attention away from the
> obvious solution of selling PCs with no operating system. a person
> should be able to go to dell's website, pick whatever machine they want
> and then have the option to reduce the price by declining windows. in
> other words, the price for windows should be shown as an option the same
> as any other component. until dell & the other major pc vendors get to
> that point, it is clear that microsoft is still monopolizing the OEMs
> regardless of all the nonsensical rhetoric (from shills) that supposedly
> proves otherwise.

Precisely!

Also (imo) the argument of "We can't install Linux, because there are so
many distros and we could never please everybodybody" is a red herring.
I reckon that almost anybody buying a PC to use with Linux would be more
than happy to buy one with one of the most popular 2 or 3 installed.
If they didn't want one of those, they'd be pretty certain that the H/W
works with Linux, and could install the distro of their choice.

As you say, when I see a price list which includes "No OS" right through the
range, I'll be happy. Until then, no.

DFS · External Since: Jun 07, 2005 Posts: 3651

B Gruff wrote:

> As you say, when I see a price list which includes "No OS" right
> through the range, I'll be happy. Until then, no.

The irony is , you, like every other "advocate", thinks OEMs should bear
huge risks to make you happy. Why won't you (and other "advocates")
personally bear the risks of selling Linux systems?

'Cause when those risks aren't rewarded - and they won't be - you won't be
happy Sad

DFS · External Since: Jun 07, 2005 Posts: 3651

B Gruff wrote:
> On Monday 12 March 2007 14:39 DFS wrote:
>
>> B Gruff wrote:
>>> On Monday 12 March 2007 12:00 OK wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "What Dell really needs are more high-end gamers who buy top-spec
>>>> PCs in fancy cases for Â£2,500 or more, not low-end Linux users
>>>> looking to save Â£25 on Windows"
>>>
>>> Interestingly, you might like to look at *which* of their P.C.s Dell
>>> actually offer with Linux.
>>> Not the bottom end - always the top end of the range...
>>
>> Which ones actually sell?
>
> Frankly, I don't know DFS - I'm not privy to that information - are
> you?

No, but I think none of them actually sell. Otherwise 100,000 Linux bozos
would have known Dell already sells Linux systems, and they wouldn't have
felt it necessary to display their ignorance on dellideastorm.

Linonut · External Since: Mar 31, 2006 Posts: 3492

After takin' a swig o' grog, Dr. GroundAxe belched out this bit o' wisdom:

> Jan Kandziora wrote:
>> OK schrieb:
>>
>>> http://technology.guardian.co.uk/weekly/story/0,,2028343,00.html
>>>
>>> Just some quotes:
>>>
>> ----Schnipp----
>> I found a better one:
>>
>> "The less obvious problem is the very high cost of Linux support, especially
>> when selling cheap PCs to naïve users who don't RTFM (read the friendly
>> manual) and wouldn't understand a Linux manual if they tried."
>>
>> Well, he actually wrote the whole mass-market computer industry (e.g. DELL)
>> is built on naïve people. Explains a lot.
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>> Jan
>
> Yeah, that's right. Linux weenies know more about the industry than the
> biggest computer manufacturer in the world. You guys are a joke.

The only joke here is your ability in logic, GrindAss.

--
Windows XP is like a box of chocolates --
you never know when the steel bolts are going to spring out and
plunge straight through both cheeks.

B Gruff · External Since: Jun 17, 2004 Posts: 1639

On Tuesday 13 March 2007 02:09 DFS wrote:

> B Gruff wrote:
>
>> As you say, when I see a price list which includes "No OS" right
>> through the range, I'll be happy. Until then, no.
>
> The irony is , you, like every other "advocate", thinks OEMs should bear
> huge risks to make you happy. Why won't you (and other "advocates")
> personally bear the risks of selling Linux systems?
>
> 'Cause when those risks aren't rewarded - and they won't be - you won't be
> happy Sad

Tell me DFS, where is the risk in publishing a price list?

Where is the risk in selling a PC *without* an OS?

DFS · External Since: Jun 07, 2005 Posts: 3651

B Gruff wrote:
> On Tuesday 13 March 2007 02:09 DFS wrote:
>
>> B Gruff wrote:
>>
>>> As you say, when I see a price list which includes "No OS" right
>>> through the range, I'll be happy. Until then, no.
>>
>> The irony is , you, like every other "advocate", thinks OEMs should
>> bear huge risks to make you happy. Why won't you (and other
>> "advocates") personally bear the risks of selling Linux systems?
>>
>> 'Cause when those risks aren't rewarded - and they won't be - you
>> won't be happy Sad

>
> Tell me DFS, where is the risk in publishing a price list?
>
> Where is the risk in selling a PC *without* an OS?

The risk is the customer will install something like Linux and blame Dell
when he gets no 3d acceleration out of his video card. Then he'll waste
hours of their tech support time. Then he'll return the system.

Those are the risks.