[gentoo-user] Fed up with Xorg + hal mess

alain.didierjean · External Since: Sep 30, 2004 Posts: 26

Definitly, an update shouldn't break an existing working configuration! This
happens these days only too often with the Xorg + hal mess.
I happen to use linux as a working tool and 3 days without being able to launch
a working X is a source of problems! This is the second time. As for hal config,
the author should remember that ol'saying:KISS for Keep It Simple, Stupid.
Now, with or without /etc/X11/xorg.conf, my machine (amd64), updated to
libxcb-1.4, xorg-1.6 and hal last version launches X all right, only mouse and
keyboard are not working !
A line in /var/log/Xorg.0.log says:
(WW) AllowEmptyInput is on, devices using drivers 'kbd', 'mouse' or 'vmmouse'
will be disabled.
Where is that b..... AllowEmptyOption ? certainly not in xorg.conf.
How do I get back some input on X screen ?
I also get (with xorg.conf)
(EE) Failed to load module "type1" (module doesn't exist, 0)
(EE) Failed to load module "evdev" (module doesn't exist, 0)
Please help before I turn crazy (it might be too late)

alain.didierjean · External Since: Sep 30, 2004 Posts: 26

Selon Florian Philipp <lists.RemoveThis@f_philipp.fastmail.net>:

> alain.didierjean.RemoveThis@free.fr schrieb:
> > Definitly, an update shouldn't break an existing working configuration!
> This
> > happens these days only too often with the Xorg + hal mess.
> > I happen to use linux as a working tool and 3 days without being able to
> launch
> > a working X is a source of problems! This is the second time. As for hal
> config,
> > the author should remember that ol'saying:KISS for Keep It Simple, Stupid.
> > Now, with or without /etc/X11/xorg.conf, my machine (amd64), updated to
> > libxcb-1.4, xorg-1.6 and hal last version launches X all right, only mouse
> and
> > keyboard are not working !
> > A line in /var/log/Xorg.0.log says:
> > (WW) AllowEmptyInput is on, devices using drivers 'kbd', 'mouse' or
> 'vmmouse'
> > will be disabled.
> > Where is that b..... AllowEmptyOption ? certainly not in xorg.conf.
> > How do I get back some input on X screen ?
> > I also get (with xorg.conf)
> > (EE) Failed to load module "type1" (module doesn't exist, 0)
> > (EE) Failed to load module "evdev" (module doesn't exist, 0)
> > Please help before I turn crazy (it might be too late)
> >
>
> With 'launches X' do you mean your desktop environment (login -> startx)
> or xdm/kdm/gdm?
both
>

Thanks all for the help. Finally the problem was solved by re-compiling all X11
drivers used, and most notably xf86-input-keyboard & xf86-input-mouse.
I still think that any package update that breaks a working config without any
specific doc IS A BUG. That just happened for the scond time.

Dale · External Since: Jun 20, 2009 Posts: 44

alain.didierjean.TakeThisOut@free.fr wrote:
>
> Thanks all for the help. Finally the problem was solved by re-compiling all X11
> drivers used, and most notably xf86-input-keyboard & xf86-input-mouse.
> I still think that any package update that breaks a working config without any
> specific doc IS A BUG. That just happened for the scond time.
>
>
>

Well, at least you can get evdev to working. I haven't had any luck yet
although I need to try again since xorg-server is about to update here too.

I also know the SysReq key trick now. It can take you back to a console.

Dale

Smile

Alan McKinnon · External Since: Jun 26, 2009 Posts: 68

On Wednesday 07 October 2009 06:34:06 alain.didierjean DeleteThis @free.fr wrote:
> Thanks all for the help. Finally the problem was solved by re-compiling all
> X11 drivers used, and most notably xf86-input-keyboard & xf86-input-mouse.
> I still think that any package update that breaks a working config without
> any specific doc IS A BUG. That just happened for the scond time.
>

Any human operator who does a large upgrade such as this and does not read the
posted notice about it has a bug in his head. If you had fixed that bug, the
one on your computer would have been solved.

--
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Alex Schuster · External Since: Dec 18, 2006 Posts: 47

Harry Putnam writes:

> Dale <rdalek1967.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> writes:
> > I also know the SysReq key trick now. It can take you back to a
> > console.
>
> I'll bite ... what is it?

Some magic commands involving the SysRq key allow actions even if the system
hangs and does not respond. Alt-SysRq-R for example resets the keyboard and
allows one to switch back to a text console then. Works only once for me,
though.
Others allow to kill processes, sync the filesystem, and such. The
combination Alt-SysRq-R-E-I-S-U-B reboots a hanging PC without file system
corruption.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key

Wonko

bn · External Since: Oct 07, 2009 Posts: 1

Alan McKinnon ha scritto:
> On Wednesday 07 October 2009 06:34:06 alain.didierjean.DeleteThis@free.fr wrote:
>> Thanks all for the help. Finally the problem was solved by re-compiling all
>> X11 drivers used, and most notably xf86-input-keyboard & xf86-input-mouse.
>> I still think that any package update that breaks a working config without
>> any specific doc IS A BUG. That just happened for the scond time.
>>
>
> Any human operator who does a large upgrade such as this and does not read the
> posted notice about it has a bug in his head. If you had fixed that bug, the
> one on your computer would have been solved.
>

What do you mean by "posted notice"? the news?
(I just ask because I also have a long backlog of updates still to do,
because I cannot afford to break my system now, and therefore...)

thanks!

Alan McKinnon · External Since: Jun 26, 2009 Posts: 68

On Wednesday 07 October 2009 19:07:36 bn wrote:
> Alan McKinnon ha scritto:
> > On Wednesday 07 October 2009 06:34:06 alain.didierjean.RemoveThis@free.fr wrote:
> >> Thanks all for the help. Finally the problem was solved by re-compiling
> >> all X11 drivers used, and most notably xf86-input-keyboard &
> >> xf86-input-mouse. I still think that any package update that breaks a
> >> working config without any specific doc IS A BUG. That just happened for
> >> the scond time.
> >
> > Any human operator who does a large upgrade such as this and does not
> > read the posted notice about it has a bug in his head. If you had fixed
> > that bug, the one on your computer would have been solved.
>
> What do you mean by "posted notice"? the news?

No, the elog

It's there for a reason - so you can read it and follow the advice it gives.

--
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Dale · External Since: Jun 20, 2009 Posts: 44

Alex Schuster wrote:
> Harry Putnam writes:
>
>
>> Dale <rdalek1967.RemoveThis@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> I also know the SysReq key trick now. It can take you back to a
>>> console.
>>>
>> I'll bite ... what is it?
>>
>
> Some magic commands involving the SysRq key allow actions even if the system
> hangs and does not respond. Alt-SysRq-R for example resets the keyboard and
> allows one to switch back to a text console then. Works only once for me,
> though.
> Others allow to kill processes, sync the filesystem, and such. The
> combination Alt-SysRq-R-E-I-S-U-B reboots a hanging PC without file system
> corruption.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key
>
> Wonko
>
>
>

That's the one. I think its either the second or third key that makes
it go back to a console. It is nice to know about. I have it taped to
my wall for reference. It beats having to pull the plug without a
proper shutdown.

Dale

Smile

Mark Knecht · External Since: Sep 07, 2004 Posts: 473

On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Neil Bothwick <neil.RemoveThis@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
> On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 18:39:45 +0200, Alex Schuster wrote:
>
>> Others allow to kill processes, sync the filesystem, and such. The
>> combination Alt-SysRq-R-E-I-S-U-B reboots a hanging PC without file
>> system corruption.
>
> Usually! Sometimes a system can be locked up to badly that there's not
> enough resources left to sync the filesystems. Most of the time though
> Alt-SysRq-Reboot-Even-If-System-Utterly-Broken works.
>
>
> --
> Neil Bothwick

I've seen you guys talk about this and I've never had to use it. I'm
curious about the actual key strokes. Is it

Alt-SysRq and then REISUB

or

Alt-SysRq followed by Atl-R, Atl-E, etc.. ?

I assume the first but it would be nice to know if I ever have to use it.

Thanks,
Mark

Mark Knecht · External Since: Sep 07, 2004 Posts: 473

On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Alex Schuster <wonko DeleteThis @wonkology.org> wrote:
> Mark Knecht writes:
>
>> On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Neil Bothwick <neil DeleteThis @digimed.co.uk> wrote:
>> > On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 18:39:45 +0200, Alex Schuster wrote:
>> >> Others allow to kill processes, sync the filesystem, and such. The
>> >> combination Alt-SysRq-R-E-I-S-U-B reboots a hanging PC without file
>> >> system corruption.
>> >
>> > Usually! Sometimes a system can be locked up to badly that there's not
>> > enough resources left to sync the filesystems. Most of the time though
>> > Alt-SysRq-Reboot-Even-If-System-Utterly-Broken works.
>
> Right, I was a little too enthusiastic here.
>
>> I've seen you guys talk about this and I've never had to use it.
>
> Oh. I used it very often.
>
>> I'm curious about the actual key strokes. Is it
>>
>> Alt-SysRq and then REISUB
>>
>> or
>>
>> Alt-SysRq followed by Atl-R, Atl-E, etc.. ?
>
> It's Alt-SysRq-R, Alt-SysRq-E, and so on. With little pauses between, to
> give the action some time to work. Like, wait a little with the U (Unmount)
> after the S (Sync). Or after the E (kill all processes) in order to give the
> processes some time to save data, so the I (kill -9 all processes) does not
> interrupt this.
>
> Wonko
>
>

thanks Wonko!

Alex Schuster · External Since: Dec 18, 2006 Posts: 47

Mark Knecht writes:

> On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Neil Bothwick <neil.TakeThisOut@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
> > On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 18:39:45 +0200, Alex Schuster wrote:
> >> Others allow to kill processes, sync the filesystem, and such. The
> >> combination Alt-SysRq-R-E-I-S-U-B reboots a hanging PC without file
> >> system corruption.
> >
> > Usually! Sometimes a system can be locked up to badly that there's not
> > enough resources left to sync the filesystems. Most of the time though
> > Alt-SysRq-Reboot-Even-If-System-Utterly-Broken works.

Right, I was a little too enthusiastic here.

> I've seen you guys talk about this and I've never had to use it.

Oh. I used it very often.

> I'm curious about the actual key strokes. Is it
>
> Alt-SysRq and then REISUB
>
> or
>
> Alt-SysRq followed by Atl-R, Atl-E, etc.. ?

It's Alt-SysRq-R, Alt-SysRq-E, and so on. With little pauses between, to
give the action some time to work. Like, wait a little with the U (Unmount)
after the S (Sync). Or after the E (kill all processes) in order to give the
processes some time to save data, so the I (kill -9 all processes) does not
interrupt this.

Wonko

Alex Schuster · External Since: Dec 18, 2006 Posts: 47

Dale writes:

> Alex Schuster wrote:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key

> That's the one. I think its either the second or third key that makes
> it go back to a console. It is nice to know about. I have it taped to
> my wall for reference. It beats having to pull the plug without a
> proper shutdown.

If only X hangs, you can go back to the console with Alt-SysRq-R, followed
by Ctrl-Alt-Fn. If you just want to kill X, try Alt-SysRq-K. If the test
mode does not work then, try the 'textmode' command (typing blindly in a
text console), that may restore it.

Wonko

Alan McKinnon · External Since: Jun 26, 2009 Posts: 68

On Thursday 08 October 2009 11:19:44 alain.didierjean.DeleteThis@free.fr wrote:
> Selon Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon.DeleteThis@gmail.com>:
> > On Wednesday 07 October 2009 06:34:06 alain.didierjean.DeleteThis@free.fr wrote:
> > > Thanks all for the help. Finally the problem was solved by re-compiling
> > > all X11 drivers used, and most notably xf86-input-keyboard &
> > > xf86-input-mouse. I still think that any package update that breaks a
> > > working config without any specific doc IS A BUG. That just happened
> > > for the scond time.
> >
> > Any human operator who does a large upgrade such as this and does not
> > read the
> > posted notice about it has a bug in his head. If you had fixed that bug,
> > the one on your computer would have been solved.
>
> Thanks for this useful answer, Mr. alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com. I
> certainly have a bug in my head, but I wouldn't like to have to smell
> what's in yours.
> I have the weird habit to trust portage, as it works great 99.9% of the
> time (is that a bug ?). I usually don't read elogs as I usually don't need
> it. Xorg-1.6 needs a rebuilt of all used X11 drivers, up-to-date or not.
> Not including this re-emerging in the ebuilt leads to a working config
> being broken. I call that a BUG, specifically when it happens for the
> second time. Have a sweet day, Mr alan dot mckinnon.

tsk, tsk, touchy today hey?

This is Gentoo. We assume you know what you're doing and can deal with stuff
that arises. If you don't like what the devs gave you, become a dev yourself
and fix it.

--
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Harry Putnam · External Since: Aug 09, 2004 Posts: 301

Alex Schuster <wonko.DeleteThis@wonkology.org> writes:

>> I'm curious about the actual key strokes. Is it
>>
>> Alt-SysRq and then REISUB

And what is `SysRq' a reference to on a keyboard?

Mark Knecht · External Since: Sep 07, 2004 Posts: 473

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 10:32 AM, Harry Putnam <reader.DeleteThis@newsguy.com> wrote:
> Alex Schuster <wonko.DeleteThis@wonkology.org> writes:
>
>>> I'm curious about the actual key strokes. Is it
>>>
>>> Alt-SysRq and then REISUB
>
> And what is `SysRq' a reference to on a keyboard?
>
>
>

The System Request key. Generally located somewhere in the upper
right. It moves around though.

- Mark

Paul Hartman · External Since: Jun 26, 2009 Posts: 41

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Harry Putnam <reader.TakeThisOut@newsguy.com> wrote:
> Alex Schuster <wonko.TakeThisOut@wonkology.org> writes:
>
>>> I'm curious about the actual key strokes. Is it
>>>
>>> Alt-SysRq and then REISUB
>
> And what is `SysRq' a reference to on a keyboard?

On US keyboards SysRq is usually on the Print Screen key. (like Break
is on the Pause key)

Mark Knecht · External Since: Sep 07, 2004 Posts: 473

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 11:30 AM, Neil Bothwick <neil.DeleteThis@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Oct 2009 10:47:03 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote:
>
>> The System Request key. Generally located somewhere in the upper
>> right.
>
> Also marked PrtScn.
>
>> It moves around though.
>
> I've had this keyboard a few years and it's always stayed in exactly the
> same place. Maybe the other keys stop it moving Smile

>
>
> --
> Neil Bothwick
>
> I'm warning you! One step closer and I'll drop carrier!
>

Even though I'm old and decrepit (or maybe because...) I listen to a
lot of Porcupine Tree. For me the keys keep moving right along with
that spinning black and white vortex thing. Is that not really here?

On my desktop it's associated with Print Screen
On my laptop it's associated with delete

Alan McKinnon · External Since: Jun 26, 2009 Posts: 68

On Thursday 08 October 2009 20:30:30 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Oct 2009 10:47:03 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote:
> > The System Request key. Generally located somewhere in the upper
> > right.
>
> Also marked PrtScn.
>
> > It moves around though.
>
> I've had this keyboard a few years and it's always stayed in exactly the
> same place. Maybe the other keys stop it moving Smile

>

Nope, you're just doing it wrong. You're forgetting to do the bit where you
pop the key lids off to wash them then forget where to put them back

Smile

--
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

daid kahl · External Since: Oct 09, 2009 Posts: 2

>> Nope, you're just doing it wrong. You're forgetting to do the bit where
>> you pop the key lids off to wash them then forget where to put them
>> back
>
> That explains it, I just put the whole keyboard in the dishwasher.
>
> That may sound stupid, but it's not as bad as using Cc: on mailing list
> replies Razz

That's okay. I washed my passport once.

....daid

Dale · External Since: Jun 20, 2009 Posts: 44

Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
> Am Freitag, 9. Oktober 2009 schrieb Dale:
>
>
>> I'll give that a try. I tend to restore a saved session anyway. uhhhh,
>> I couldn't find the option to edit the menu like in KDE 3. It used to
>> be in Applications then Settings. The updating tool is there but not
>> the editing one.
>>
>
> Right-click on the k-menu icon, then select Edit menu.
>
>

Now that is to easy. Isn't there a harder way to do that? LOL

Thanks.

Dale

Smile