Hi,
On Thu, 08 Mar 2007, Josip Rodin wrote:
> How much time do you generally have to read Debian-related e-mail?
> How much for the Debian mailing lists?
This really depends on my workload and in the interest that I have on the
discussions going on. I have an incoming folder for mails coming to
hertzog.RemoveThis@debian.org and any debian role address that I can have (mainly
admin.RemoveThis@alioth.debian.org) and I have one folder for each Debian list that I
follow.
When I'm really busy, I read them only once a day. In that case, reading
mailing list really means skimming the topics to see if there's something
interesting for me.
Otherwise, when I have a bit more time, it happens that I afford 2-3 hours
each day to participate in some important discussions. Simply reading
doesn't take that much, it's really writing mails that takes time, because
I take the time to think about what I write. I dislike re-reading myself
afterwards to see that I've been too quick and that I might have offended
someone, or that my reasoning isn't well articulated.
> How many lists do you follow, and which ones do you pay real attention to?
Around 22 lists. I pay attention to most of the list that I subscribe
except for lists like debian-devel-changes or debian-bugs-rc.
The major list that takes me time are the biggest ones (depending on the period):
-devel, -project, -vote, -private, -release (only since a few months
)
> Have you stopped following a Debian mailing list in the past, and if so,
> what was the most important/common reason for that?
Yes. It was usually because I lost interest in the topic. For example I
have been subscribed to -boot because I wrote a d-i module (autopartkit) a
few years ago, however I haven't worked on d-i since then and I
unsubscribed when I realized that I was only marking all the mails as read
instead of actually reading some of them.
I'm regularly pissed of by the amount of sterile discussions but that
hasn't led me to unsubscribe because I know that it's always limited to a
given discussion, it's doesn't mean much for the next discussion to come.
> Could you describe an indicative example or two where you formed
> a distinctly positive or a distinctly negative opinion about a person based
> on what they wrote in a non-trivial flamewar^Wdiscussion? (There is no need
> to name anyone, just describe the situation as you feel is appropriate.)
- When the same name appears too much in the discussion, it's a bad sign
in particular if he isn't the initiator of the discussion. I read the
first mails of the given person and check if there's progress in the
discussion or if they're only trying to convince someone else that they
are wrong. In that case, I skip the subthread.
- When someone resorts to insults very early in the discussion (that's not
to say that they're ok when they're throwed at the end of the discussion!),
it gives me a bad feeling of that person.
- The worst is probably one-liners answers to attack/mock someone else. We
have too many of those.
On the contrary, when someone takes the time to respond to several mails
with a single one, it's usually a proof that he respects the time taken by
others to read his contributions.
> What's your opinion on what it's like for others to be reading our
> mailing lists? Feel free to be vague here 
It really depends on the person and in the mailing list being watched.
Most small-scale mailing lists are working ok. debian-devel improved
since we apply the policy to move non-technical discussions to -project.
> In general, what's your opinion about the quality of communication in
> the project? Freely elaborate this last part
It's not very good. We have way too many people who are complaining
for the sake of it, because they have lost faith in whoever they are
discussing with. So they just write mails to relieve their anger instead of
being constructive. I really prefer when they are doing so in their blog.
Because the blog is more a personal space whereas the mailing list is a
collaboration space that we should respect and make the best use of it.
It's true however that we also have many people who are difficult to
communicate with. So there are sometimes good reasons to be frustrated.
The difficult part is to be able to redirect this energy in a positive way.
This is where the "empower people to do stuff" is really important. You
must show support to your fellow developers even if you're not always
convinced by their project, you can criticize their ideas but not mock
them for having suggested it. There's no reason to stay in their ways if
they are not doing something contradictory with our goals.
I also think that we lack some identity. We have a strong basis with the
DFSG and the social contract, but there's much more to forge our identity.
I think it's the role of the DPL to force the project to have better
definition of itself. This might mean writing position statement on behalf
of the project, or draft some GR to resolve problems to come. This part is
IMO better done by a board than an individual DPL.
Cheers,
--
Raphaël Hertzog
Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux :
http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/
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