USB installation - MD5s for RHEL 5.3 Fail

QuadZeroRoute · External Since: Jul 04, 2009 Posts: 1

I purchased the only media available from RedHat and it included a DVD
for the installation. At this time I am unable to install from a DVD
on this Dell, XPS Gen 3 because I cannot select the DVD drive as a
bootable device from within the already updated BIOS.

I may be able to install from a USB device, never tried it with
RedHat, but it worked previously for Win 7beta. Can I just copy the
contents of the DVD to the USB _FLASH_ device and boot from it?

Any documents available for this? Nothing immediately available in
the RedHat KB stands out that I can see.

I would rather NOT download any files from anywhere other than RedHat
or a major Linux site for this...sort of defeats the purpose of a
secure installation.

I download the CD ISOs for Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5.3 using Mozilla
Firefox 3.5, then tested the MD5s and they ALL failed using two
different applications to verify the MD5's within Microsoft Windows XP
Pro. That is why I am where I am and am asking for some help on using
the contents of the DVD.

From the RedHat site MD5s are supposed to be:
ISO Size MD5 Checksum
Binary Disc 1 (Client Core) 634 MB 2c268f004d4c21e6c1b6ac8adeb519ab
Binary Disc 2 (Client Core) 624 MB 7754168fd28d4cfc4e82ac73dd28a3c4
Binary Disc 3 (Client Core) 616 MB 9016c6caebb496751afc72f71d2de8a3
Binary Disc 4 (Client Core) 618 MB a6dfea7b7ab42080b1e387e5e2584281
Binary Disc 5 (Client Core/Workstation/Virtualization) 630 MB
406be25cab1d023046021c48c1cb32b9

What I have:

# MD5 checksums generated by MD5summer (http://www.md5summer.org)
# Generated 7/4/2009 6:49:15 PM
2a97958f29fae433a0e578de4a7837b9 *rhel-client-5.3-i386-disc3.iso
7511459740a0e999175565b2ed0e0c68 *rhel-client-5.3-i386-disc4.iso
928313d53b23621d358c8d8abc4e1f00 *rhel-client-5.3-i386-disc5.iso
2c268f004d4c21e6c1b6ac8adeb519ab *rhel-client-5.4-i386-disc1.iso
7754168fd28d4cfc4e82ac73dd28a3c4 *rhel-client-5.4-i386-disc2.iso

# MD5 checksums generated by md5checksum_1.0
# Generated 7/4/2009
2a97958f29fae433a0e578de4a7837b9 *rhel-client-5.3-i386-disc3.iso
7511459740a0e999175565b2ed0e0c68 *rhel-client-5.3-i386-disc4.iso
928313d53b23621d358c8d8abc4e1f00 *rhel-client-5.3-i386-disc5.iso
2c268f004d4c21e6c1b6ac8adeb519ab *rhel-client-5.4-i386-disc1.iso
7754168fd28d4cfc4e82ac73dd28a3c4 *rhel-client-5.4-i386-disc2.iso

Thanks ahead of time!

David W. Hodgins · External Since: Dec 04, 2005 Posts: 277

On Sat, 04 Jul 2009 23:06:48 -0400, <QuadZeroRoute RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:

> I may be able to install from a USB device, never tried it with

Another option, if you have the space available, is to install from
the hard drive. Much faster.

Copy the dvd to a .iso file on the hd.

Use any distro that has a live cd to boot into linux, and then run
a script similar to the following, which is what I use ...

#!/bin/bash

isofile=mandriva-linux-free-alpha-cooker-i586.iso
isodir=/mnt/hd

cd "$isodir"
rm -f vmlinuz.install
rm -f initrd.install

mount -t auto -o ro,loop "$isofile" /media/cdrom
ls -l /media/cdrom/i586/isolinux/alt0/vmlinuz
ls -l /media/cdrom/i586/isolinux/alt0/all.rdz
ls -l /media/cdrom/i586/isolinux/alt0/
cp /media/cdrom/i586/isolinux/alt0/vmlinuz "$isodir"/vmlinuz.install
cp /media/cdrom/i586/isolinux/alt0/all.rdz "$isodir"/initrd.install

umount /media/cdrom
ls -l *.install

echo image=$isodir/vmlinuz.install
echo label="install"
echo root=/dev/sda3
echo initrd=$isodir/initrd.install

The above script extracts the files needed to boot from, and shows
the stanza needed for for lilo to boot from the iso image.

After running the script, you'd have to create a /etc/lilo.conf file,
and then run lilo to install the boot manager.

Feel free to contact me by email (see sig), if you'd like to try this
approach, and need some help.

Regards

--
Change nomail.afraid.org to ody.ca to reply by email.
(nomail.afraid.org has been set up specifically for
use in usenet. Feel free to use it yourself.)

Nico Kadel-Garcia · External Since: Jul 05, 2009 Posts: 7

On Jul 4, 11:06 pm, QuadZeroRo... RemoveThis @yahoo.com wrote:
> I purchased the only media available from RedHat and it included a DVD
> for the installation. At this time I am unable to install from a DVD
> on this Dell, XPS Gen 3 because I cannot select the DVD drive as a
> bootable device from within the already updated BIOS.
>
> I may be able to install from a USB device, never tried it with
> RedHat, but it worked previously for Win 7beta. Can I just copy the
> contents of the DVD to the USB _FLASH_ device and boot from it?

Not typically. There are some fascinating driver issues with booting
from USB, and many published guidelines, many of which violently
disagree with each other.

However, I'm certain there is a 'netboot.iso' or similar image stashed
on that DVD, which you could burn to a CD, and possibly a USB device
imge. Look under 'images' for it. This can be used to provide a
kickstart device, that can then be pointed to a local DVD or a remote
mounted DVD on a machine with a webserver.

"Just copying the contents" is guaranteed not to work: you need
something with a boot loader set up. (You can read up on LiLO, grub,
and the mkisofs areguments for making bootable CD images if you like.)

> Any documents available for this? Nothing immediately available in
> the RedHat KB stands out that I can see.
>
> I would rather NOT download any files from anywhere other than RedHat
> or a major Linux site for this...sort of defeats the purpose of a
> secure installation.
>
> I download the CD ISOs for Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5.3 using Mozilla
> Firefox 3.5, then tested the MD5s and they ALL failed using two
> different applications to verify the MD5's within Microsoft Windows XP
> Pro. That is why I am where I am and am asking for some help on using
> the contents of the DVD.

*OUCH*. Were you running out of disk space or something? Did the
images wind up truncated?

As for your MD5sum issues. Let's re-order these for you. What did you
use for checksum that listed the files in the wrong order?

> 2c268f004d4c21e6c1b6ac8adeb519ab *rhel-client-5.4-i386-disc1.iso
> 7754168fd28d4cfc4e82ac73dd28a3c4 *rhel-client-5.4-i386-disc2.iso
> 2a97958f29fae433a0e578de4a7837b9 *rhel-client-5.3-i386-disc3.iso
> 7511459740a0e999175565b2ed0e0c68 *rhel-client-5.3-i386-disc4.iso
> 928313d53b23621d358c8d8abc4e1f00 *rhel-client-5.3-i386-disc5.iso

As someone else pointed out, you've got mixed media from two different
releases. That's a no-no. And whatever you used to generate that list
had re-ordered the images.

You know, if you can spare the disk space somewhere, I'm going to
recommend the "use a netboot ISO" and "run a webserver with all the
RHEL material on it from the DVD". This is becuase you can use that
for PXE network installations, *AND* you can point yum to that as a
local file repository and get much, much faster installations than the
that yum module that basically dresses up2date up in grandma's
nightgown that RedHat saddled into RHEL 5. And if you can run one
registered RHEL machine with 'reposync' to keep an update repository
loaded, you can point all your local machines to that server for yum
updates, and it will actually obey yum directives, rather than
ignoring them way that disguised up2date tool does. This makes
resolving conflicts between RHEL versions of components and RPMforge
or local repositories much, much, much easier.

Thomas Scheunemann · External Since: Dec 12, 2006 Posts: 2

Hello,

In comp.os.linux.setup QuadZeroRoute RemoveThis @yahoo.com wrote:
> I purchased the only media available from RedHat and it included a DVD
> for the installation. At this time I am unable to install from a DVD
> on this Dell, XPS Gen 3 because I cannot select the DVD drive as a
> bootable device from within the already updated BIOS.

> I may be able to install from a USB device, never tried it with
> RedHat, but it worked previously for Win 7beta. Can I just copy the
> contents of the DVD to the USB _FLASH_ device and boot from it?

> Any documents available for this? Nothing immediately available in
> the RedHat KB stands out that I can see.

> I would rather NOT download any files from anywhere other than RedHat
> or a major Linux site for this...sort of defeats the purpose of a
> secure installation.

> I download the CD ISOs for Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5.3 using Mozilla
> Firefox 3.5, then tested the MD5s and they ALL failed using two
> different applications to verify the MD5's within Microsoft Windows XP
> Pro. That is why I am where I am and am asking for some help on using
> the contents of the DVD.

> From the RedHat site MD5s are supposed to be:
> ISO Size MD5 Checksum
> Binary Disc 1 (Client Core) 634 MB 2c268f004d4c21e6c1b6ac8adeb519ab
> Binary Disc 2 (Client Core) 624 MB 7754168fd28d4cfc4e82ac73dd28a3c4
> Binary Disc 3 (Client Core) 616 MB 9016c6caebb496751afc72f71d2de8a3
> Binary Disc 4 (Client Core) 618 MB a6dfea7b7ab42080b1e387e5e2584281
> Binary Disc 5 (Client Core/Workstation/Virtualization) 630 MB
> 406be25cab1d023046021c48c1cb32b9

these are the checksums for the RedHat Enterprise Linux 5.4 Client release,
which is currently in Beta status.

> What I have:

> # MD5 checksums generated by MD5summer (http://www.md5summer.org)
> # Generated 7/4/2009 6:49:15 PM
> 2a97958f29fae433a0e578de4a7837b9 *rhel-client-5.3-i386-disc3.iso
> 7511459740a0e999175565b2ed0e0c68 *rhel-client-5.3-i386-disc4.iso
> 928313d53b23621d358c8d8abc4e1f00 *rhel-client-5.3-i386-disc5.iso
> 2c268f004d4c21e6c1b6ac8adeb519ab *rhel-client-5.4-i386-disc1.iso
> 7754168fd28d4cfc4e82ac73dd28a3c4 *rhel-client-5.4-i386-disc2.iso

> # MD5 checksums generated by md5checksum_1.0
> # Generated 7/4/2009
> 2a97958f29fae433a0e578de4a7837b9 *rhel-client-5.3-i386-disc3.iso
> 7511459740a0e999175565b2ed0e0c68 *rhel-client-5.3-i386-disc4.iso
> 928313d53b23621d358c8d8abc4e1f00 *rhel-client-5.3-i386-disc5.iso
> 2c268f004d4c21e6c1b6ac8adeb519ab *rhel-client-5.4-i386-disc1.iso
> 7754168fd28d4cfc4e82ac73dd28a3c4 *rhel-client-5.4-i386-disc2.iso

And as expected the files from release 5.4 are the ones you posted, while
the files from release 5.3, not suprisingly, do not fit. But as far as I
can tell, they are the correct ones for the 5.3 release. These are:

ISO Size MD5 Checksum
Binary Disc 1 (Client Core) 631 MB 73743659f64ca3c453ac92021b98852c
Binary Disc 2 (Client Core) 613 MB fe76007ee5694ebe431d7dc23a33b72b
Binary Disc 3 (Client Core) 631 MB 2a97958f29fae433a0e578de4a7837b9
Binary Disc 4 (Client Core) 630 MB 7511459740a0e999175565b2ed0e0c68
Binary Disc 5 (Client Core/Workstation/Virtualization)
631 MB 928313d53b23621d358c8d8abc4e1f00
Binary Disc 6 (Workstation) 567 MB ee34044049a1b2b5d57fb556ae31b462

As mixing different releases won't work anyway, you should of course
download the missing files from the correct release and compare to the
correct MD5 sums and all should be well.

Thomas Scheunemann

QuadZeroRoute · External Since: Jul 05, 2009 Posts: 2

On Jul 5, 2:56 am, "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodg... RemoveThis @nomail.afraid.org>
wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Jul 2009 23:06:48 -0400, <QuadZeroRo... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I may be able to install from a USB device, never tried it with
>
> Another option, if you have the space available, is to install from
> the hard drive. Much faster.
>
> Copy the dvd to a .iso file on the hd.
>
> Use any distro that has a live cd to boot into linux, and then run
> a script similar to the following, which is what I use ...
>
> #!/bin/bash
>
> isofile=mandriva-linux-free-alpha-cooker-i586.iso
> isodir=/mnt/hd
>
> cd "$isodir"
> rm -f vmlinuz.install
> rm -f initrd.install
>
> mount -t auto -o ro,loop "$isofile" /media/cdrom
> ls -l /media/cdrom/i586/isolinux/alt0/vmlinuz
> ls -l /media/cdrom/i586/isolinux/alt0/all.rdz
> ls -l /media/cdrom/i586/isolinux/alt0/
> cp /media/cdrom/i586/isolinux/alt0/vmlinuz "$isodir"/vmlinuz.install
> cp /media/cdrom/i586/isolinux/alt0/all.rdz "$isodir"/initrd.install
>
> umount /media/cdrom
> ls -l *.install
>
> echo image=$isodir/vmlinuz.install
> echo label="install"
> echo root=/dev/sda3
> echo initrd=$isodir/initrd.install
>
> The above script extracts the files needed to boot from, and shows
> the stanza needed for for lilo to boot from the iso image.
>
> After running the script, you'd have to create a /etc/lilo.conf file,
> and then run lilo to install the boot manager.
>
> Feel free to contact me by email (see sig), if you'd like to try this
> approach, and need some help.
>
> Regards
>
> --
> Change nomail.afraid.org to ody.ca to reply by email.
> (nomail.afraid.org has been set up specifically for
> use in usenet. Feel free to use it yourself.)

That is some script. I will have to do that someday. I just copied
it and emailed it to my account so I will have it in the future and
will do it once I am up and have my "sea-legs" under me.

QuadZeroRoute · External Since: Jul 05, 2009 Posts: 2

On Jul 5, 4:40 am, Thomas Scheunemann <tho... DeleteThis @rzle423.uni-duisburg.de>
wrote:
> Hello,
>
>
>
> In comp.os.linux.setup QuadZeroRo... DeleteThis @yahoo.com wrote:
> > I purchased the only media available from RedHat and it included a DVD
> > for the installation. At this time I am unable to install from a DVD
> > on this Dell, XPS Gen 3 because I cannot select the DVD drive as a
> > bootable device from within the already updated BIOS.
> > I may be able to install from a USB device, never tried it with
> > RedHat, but it worked previously for Win 7beta. Can I just copy the
> > contents of the DVD to the USB _FLASH_ device and boot from it?
> > Any documents available for this? Nothing immediately available in
> > the RedHat KB stands out that I can see.
> > I would rather NOT download any files from anywhere other than RedHat
> > or a major Linux site for this...sort of defeats the purpose of a
> > secure installation.
> > I download the CD ISOs for Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5.3 using Mozilla
> > Firefox 3.5, then tested the MD5s and they ALL failed using two
> > different applications to verify the MD5's within Microsoft Windows XP
> > Pro. That is why I am where I am and am asking for some help on using
> > the contents of the DVD.
> > From the RedHat site MD5s are supposed to be:
> > ISO Size MD5 Checksum
> > Binary Disc 1 (Client Core) 634 MB 2c268f004d4c21e6c1b6ac8adeb519ab
> > Binary Disc 2 (Client Core) 624 MB 7754168fd28d4cfc4e82ac73dd28a3c4
> > Binary Disc 3 (Client Core) 616 MB 9016c6caebb496751afc72f71d2de8a3
> > Binary Disc 4 (Client Core) 618 MB a6dfea7b7ab42080b1e387e5e2584281
> > Binary Disc 5 (Client Core/Workstation/Virtualization) 630 MB
> > 406be25cab1d023046021c48c1cb32b9
>
> these are the checksums for the RedHat Enterprise Linux 5.4 Client release,
> which is currently in Beta status.
>
> > What I have:
> > # MD5 checksums generated by MD5summer (http://www.md5summer.org)
> > # Generated 7/4/2009 6:49:15 PM
> > 2a97958f29fae433a0e578de4a7837b9 *rhel-client-5.3-i386-disc3.iso
> > 7511459740a0e999175565b2ed0e0c68 *rhel-client-5.3-i386-disc4.iso
> > 928313d53b23621d358c8d8abc4e1f00 *rhel-client-5.3-i386-disc5.iso
> > 2c268f004d4c21e6c1b6ac8adeb519ab *rhel-client-5.4-i386-disc1.iso
> > 7754168fd28d4cfc4e82ac73dd28a3c4 *rhel-client-5.4-i386-disc2.iso
> > # MD5 checksums generated by md5checksum_1.0
> > # Generated 7/4/2009
> > 2a97958f29fae433a0e578de4a7837b9 *rhel-client-5.3-i386-disc3.iso
> > 7511459740a0e999175565b2ed0e0c68 *rhel-client-5.3-i386-disc4.iso
> > 928313d53b23621d358c8d8abc4e1f00 *rhel-client-5.3-i386-disc5.iso
> > 2c268f004d4c21e6c1b6ac8adeb519ab *rhel-client-5.4-i386-disc1.iso
> > 7754168fd28d4cfc4e82ac73dd28a3c4 *rhel-client-5.4-i386-disc2.iso
>
> And as expected the files from release 5.4 are the ones you posted, while
> the files from release 5.3, not suprisingly, do not fit. But as far as I
> can tell, they are the correct ones for the 5.3 release. These are:
>
> ISO Size MD5 Checksum
> Binary Disc 1 (Client Core) 631 MB 73743659f64ca3c453ac92021b98852c
> Binary Disc 2 (Client Core) 613 MB fe76007ee5694ebe431d7dc23a33b72b
> Binary Disc 3 (Client Core) 631 MB 2a97958f29fae433a0e578de4a7837b9
> Binary Disc 4 (Client Core) 630 MB 7511459740a0e999175565b2ed0e0c68
> Binary Disc 5 (Client Core/Workstation/Virtualization)
> 631 MB 928313d53b23621d358c8d8abc4e1f00
> Binary Disc 6 (Workstation) 567 MB ee34044049a1b2b5d57fb556ae31b462
>
> As mixing different releases won't work anyway, you should of course
> download the missing files from the correct release and compare to the
> correct MD5 sums and all should be well.
>
> Thomas Scheunemann

Yes, thank you. Smile

...I should have caught that. I must have not
gone back to the same link to download the 5.3 release! Doh.

Well, if all goes as planned there are going to be many other
opportunities for plonking me on the head.

Now that you have pointed that out, I have decided to use 5.4.

Allen Kistler · External Since: Jun 26, 2004 Posts: 367

David W. Hodgins wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Jul 2009 23:06:48 -0400, <QuadZeroRoute.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> I may be able to install from a USB device, never tried it with
>
> Another option, if you have the space available, is to install from
> the hard drive. Much faster.
>
> Copy the dvd to a .iso file on the hd.
>
> Use any distro that has a live cd to boot into linux, and then run
> a script similar to the following, which is what I use ...
>
> [snip]

Wasn't the heart of the OP's problem:

>> I cannot select the DVD drive as a
>> bootable device from within the already updated BIOS.

So he needs to be able to boot from something that's not his optical
drive. That would be floppy, USB, or PXE, if the machine supports PXE.

I can't think of a way to do a floppy-based or USB-based installation
for RHEL. You could probably bootstrap into RHEL by starting with
another distro that does support floppies, if you have a floppy drive
and lots of floppy disks. Install that distro first, then use the
method David mentions to boot to the RHEL iso.

PXE needs a separate machine. The separate machine need not be Linux.
It just needs to run a tftp service and one service of nfs, ftp, and
http. This option is probably the sanest inexpensive option, if you
have another machine and if your first machine supports PXE booting.

Creative alternatives:
1. Get an add-in CD/DVD controller card with its own BIOS that *does*
support booting from CD/DVD. Attach the CD/DVD to it.
2. Repartition the HD and use your favorite Windows VM software to
access the whole physical drive. It will probably take some skill
and lots of forethought to keep from turning your machine into a
doorstop, but it could be viable.
3. Give up on RHEL5. There might be a way to do a floppy-boot
installation of RHEL3. If there is, at least you'd also be able to
boot into the RH rescue environment if you ever needed. I don't know
how much time RHEL3 has before it's EOLed, but it shouldn't be too
hard to check. BTW, Red Hat's subscription fees are not
version-specific. If you paid for RHEL5, you can switch to RHEL3.
4. Get a whole new machine that supports booting from CD/DVD.

Sidney Lambe · External Since: Jul 05, 2009 Posts: 20

Allen Kistler <ackistler RemoveThis @oohay.moc> wrote:

[delete]

> BTW, Red Hat's subscription fees are not
> version-specific. If you paid for RHEL5, you can switch to RHEL3.

The world is indeed coming to an end. People are paying
for Linux.

But even worse, people are _selling_ Linux.

I'd guess that RH uses closed-source proprietary software, too.
And that they have 800 numbers for paid tech support.

Add KDE and you've got Windows.

[delete]

It'll be a cold day in Hell before I'll pay for Linux software
or install closed-source software on my box. Or pay for technical
support.

Sure, I send a few bucks to various developers/maintainers now and then, but
this is a gift of appreciation, not payment. It isn'[t business. It's
amateurs supporting amateurs.

Real Linux is amateur.

When did the corruption of Linux by the corporate technocrats begin?

With user interfaces like KDE and Gnome, making it possible, with
the help of formal technical support, for ignorant appliance operators
to use the obscured Linux OS underlying the interface without knowing
anything about it. They don't learn Linux, they learn KDE.

Sid

B Sellers · External Since: Jul 05, 2009 Posts: 4

Sidney Lambe wrote:
> Allen Kistler <ackistler.DeleteThis@oohay.moc> wrote:
>
> [delete]
>
>> BTW, Red Hat's subscription fees are not
>> version-specific. If you paid for RHEL5, you can switch to RHEL3.
>
> The world is indeed coming to an end. People are paying
> for Linux.
>
> But even worse, people are _selling_ Linux.
>
> I'd guess that RH uses closed-source proprietary software, too.
> And that they have 800 numbers for paid tech support.
>
> Add KDE and you've got Windows.
>
> [delete]
>
> It'll be a cold day in Hell before I'll pay for Linux software
> or install closed-source software on my box. Or pay for technical
> support.
>
> Sure, I send a few bucks to various developers/maintainers now and then, but
> this is a gift of appreciation, not payment. It isn'[t business. It's
> amateurs supporting amateurs.
>
> Real Linux is amateur.
>
> When did the corruption of Linux by the corporate technocrats begin?
>
> With user interfaces like KDE and Gnome, making it possible, with
> the help of formal technical support, for ignorant appliance operators
> to use the obscured Linux OS underlying the interface without knowing
> anything about it. They don't learn Linux, they learn KDE.
>
> Sid
>
What they are selling is support and so they keep tight control of
what they must support, This is good for businesses
and perhaps government agencies. Mandriva has supported versions
that are sold with documentation though the docs are trivial next
to the big books that RHEL gets on the market.

SuSe sell supported version and offers limited time
support for versions that accompany magazines like Linux Pro
and Linux Format.

I think there are other supported versions like Xandros
as well but I don't pretend to know all versions available with
support.

It is nothing to get worked up over, IMO.

later
bliss

Johnny Rebel · External Since: Jul 05, 2009 Posts: 3

Sidney Lambe wrote:
> Allen Kistler <ackistler RemoveThis @oohay.moc> wrote:
>
> [delete]
>
>> BTW, Red Hat's subscription fees are not
>> version-specific. If you paid for RHEL5, you can switch to RHEL3.
>
> The world is indeed coming to an end. People are paying
> for Linux.

Nothing wrong with that at all, it is all in the spirit of the GPL. The
best thing is, you don't have to pay for it, it is your choice.

>
> But even worse, people are _selling_ Linux.

Again, nothing wrong with that - it is still in the spirit of the GPL.
The best thing is, you can sell it as well, or give it away. Your call.
These are the benefits of Open Source - it is your choice to pay for
it, sell it, give it away... you have the freedom to do what you want.

>
> I'd guess that RH uses closed-source proprietary software, too.
> And that they have 800 numbers for paid tech support.

Not that I know of, but I could be mistaken. The certainly do have
support numbers.

>
> Add KDE and you've got Windows.

I disagree, but my disagreement is irrelevant.

>
> [delete]
>
> It'll be a cold day in Hell before I'll pay for Linux software
> or install closed-source software on my box. Or pay for technical
> support.

That is great! All in the spirit of the GPL. The great things is - if
you choose to pay for a support contract, you can, but you don't have to.

>
> Sure, I send a few bucks to various developers/maintainers now and then, but
> this is a gift of appreciation, not payment. It isn'[t business. It's
> amateurs supporting amateurs.

That is great as well. I think more people should do this. BTW, is the
software developer/maintainers software in Redhat per chance?

>
> Real Linux is amateur.

So are the Olympics right? I disagree with that statement. Real Linux
is community driven. That community consists of large companies giving
time, code and/or whatever else. It also consists of "Bob" in his
basement. Linux is community.

>
> When did the corruption of Linux by the corporate technocrats begin?
>
> With user interfaces like KDE and Gnome, making it possible, with
> the help of formal technical support, for ignorant appliance operators
> to use the obscured Linux OS underlying the interface without knowing
> anything about it. They don't learn Linux, they learn KDE.

Sure, but what does that have to do with corruption? This simply makes
it better (IMHO) to use, and easy for less achieved users. My wife
wouldn't know how to use the CLI efficiently (I am trying though... Smile

)
but has been a pretty serious end user on Linux for about 6 years now.
She loves it, and tells people just that.

JR.

>
> Sid
>

--

--> GNU/Linux is user friendly... it's just picky about its friends.

Sidney Lambe · External Since: Jul 05, 2009 Posts: 20

B Sellers <bliss RemoveThis @sfo.com> wrote:
> Sidney Lambe wrote:
>> Allen Kistler <ackistler RemoveThis @oohay.moc> wrote:
>>
>> [delete]
>>
>>> BTW, Red Hat's subscription fees are not
>>> version-specific. If you paid for RHEL5, you can switch to RHEL3.
>>
>> The world is indeed coming to an end. People are paying
>> for Linux.
>>
>> But even worse, people are _selling_ Linux.
>>
>> I'd guess that RH uses closed-source proprietary software, too.
>> And that they have 800 numbers for paid tech support.
>>
>> Add KDE and you've got Windows.
>>
>> [delete]
>>
>> It'll be a cold day in Hell before I'll pay for Linux software
>> or install closed-source software on my box. Or pay for technical
>> support.
>>
>> Sure, I send a few bucks to various developers/maintainers now and then, but
>> this is a gift of appreciation, not payment. It isn'[t business. It's
>> amateurs supporting amateurs.
>>
>> Real Linux is amateur.
>>
>> When did the corruption of Linux by the corporate technocrats begin?
>>
>> With user interfaces like KDE and Gnome, making it possible, with
>> the help of formal technical support, for ignorant appliance operators
>> to use the obscured Linux OS underlying the interface without knowing
>> anything about it. They don't learn Linux, they learn KDE.
>>
>> Sid
>>
> What they are selling is support and so they keep tight control of
> what they must support, This is good for businesses
> and perhaps government agencies.

Both of which are the enemies of the freedom that Linux represents.
Real Linux. Business controls government...

> Mandriva has supported versions
> that are sold with documentation though the docs are trivial next
> to the big books that RHEL gets on the market.

Okay

>
> SuSe sell supported version and offers limited time
> support for versions that accompany magazines like Linux Pro
> and Linux Format.

Didn't know that.

>
> I think there are other supported versions like Xandros
> as well but I don't pretend to know all versions available with
> support.
>
> It is nothing to get worked up over, IMO.

Oh yes it is.

They _will_ try again to use the Courts to make Linux/Gnu
software the property of one or more corporations.

And most Linux people are making it happen by supporting
these sellout distros.

Even Slackware has sold out to KDE and they'll be following
RH soon.

But I've got all the software I need from them, so cutting them
loose won't be difficult.

Sid

Nico Kadel-Garcia · External Since: Jul 05, 2009 Posts: 7

On Jul 5, 8:13 pm, Sidney Lambe <sidneyla... DeleteThis @nospam.invalid> wrote:

[ ranting deleted ]

Folks, we've got a troll. He's not answering the questions raised by
the original poster, has no apparent actual knowledge to contribute,
and his entire posting history under this alias is 90% troll and 10%
useless comments that do not actually provide any information or
reflect any direct experience.

Killfile him and move on.

Sidney Lambe · External Since: Jul 05, 2009 Posts: 20

Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8 RemoveThis @verizon.net> wrote:
> Sidney Lambe wrote:

[delete]

>> Just Say No
>>
>> to KDE/Gnome/Xfce/and so on.
>
> It is no fun trying to run the lynx web browser with modern web sites.

Now there is a remarkably ignorant statement coming from someone
who claims (in the rest of this article, deleleted) to be a
Linux expert.

I run firefox here when necessary, and bash is my user interface.
I don't run an "integrated graphical desktop environment" like
KDE or Gnome or Xfce.

You just enter "firefox &" on the commandline and firefox is
launched and the prompt is cleared.

Duh <<<<<<<<<

(I have it 'aliased' to a function
in my bashrc to "ff", so that's all I have to enter).

So are you actually this ignorant or are you a corporate shill
trying to disinform people?

It's not that I can do anything from the commandline that someone
can do with KDE. I can do _more_.

And it's easier to learn bash than it is to learn KDE, starting
from scratch.

Don't let these technocrats mislead you. They want to produce
ignorant appliance operators so that you'll be dependent on
them.

[delete]

Sid

Sidney Lambe · External Since: Jul 05, 2009 Posts: 20

Johnny Rebel <rebel.DeleteThis@none.com> wrote:
> Sidney Lambe wrote:
>> Allen Kistler <ackistler.DeleteThis@oohay.moc> wrote:
>>
>> [delete]
>>
>>> BTW, Red Hat's subscription fees are not
>>> version-specific. If you paid for RHEL5, you can switch to RHEL3.
>>
>> The world is indeed coming to an end. People are paying
>> for Linux.
>
> Nothing wrong with that at all, it is all in the spirit of the GPL. The
> best thing is, you don't have to pay for it, it is your choice.

Yes, there is something wrong with it. They are paying for avoiding
learning Linux.

They are paying to remain ignorant appliance operators.

I don't know why you call yourself "Johnny Rebel".

You are a corporate sheep.

Oh yeh. I forgot. Lies the corporations' principal tools.

[delete]

Sid

Jan Gerrit Kootstra · External Since: Apr 08, 2004 Posts: 295

Sidney Lambe schreef:
> Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8 DeleteThis @verizon.net> wrote:
>> Sidney Lambe wrote:
>
> [delete]
>
>>> Just Say No
>>>
>>> to KDE/Gnome/Xfce/and so on.
>> It is no fun trying to run the lynx web browser with modern web sites.
>
> Now there is a remarkably ignorant statement coming from someone
> who claims (in the rest of this article, deleleted) to be a
> Linux expert.
>
> I run firefox here when necessary, and bash is my user interface.
> I don't run an "integrated graphical desktop environment" like
> KDE or Gnome or Xfce.
>
> You just enter "firefox &" on the commandline and firefox is
> launched and the prompt is cleared.
>
> Duh <<<<<<<<<
>
> (I have it 'aliased' to a function
> in my bashrc to "ff", so that's all I have to enter).
>
> So are you actually this ignorant or are you a corporate shill
> trying to disinform people?
>
> It's not that I can do anything from the commandline that someone
> can do with KDE. I can do _more_.
>
> And it's easier to learn bash than it is to learn KDE, starting
> from scratch.
>
> Don't let these technocrats mislead you. They want to produce
> ignorant appliance operators so that you'll be dependent on
> them.
>
> [delete]
>
>
> Sid
Sid,

Just a philosophical question, do you have fire insurance?

Kind regards,

Jan Gerrit

The Natural Philosopher · External Since: Jul 06, 2009 Posts: 10

Sidney Lambe wrote:
> Johnny Rebel <rebel.RemoveThis@none.com> wrote:
>> Sidney Lambe wrote:
>>> Allen Kistler <ackistler.RemoveThis@oohay.moc> wrote:
>>>
>>> [delete]
>>>
>>>> BTW, Red Hat's subscription fees are not
>>>> version-specific. If you paid for RHEL5, you can switch to RHEL3.
>>> The world is indeed coming to an end. People are paying
>>> for Linux.
>> Nothing wrong with that at all, it is all in the spirit of the GPL. The
>> best thing is, you don't have to pay for it, it is your choice.
>
> Yes, there is something wrong with it. They are paying for avoiding
> learning Linux.
>
Do you service your won car? Perform your own lobotomies? Salughter your
own cattle?

Jeez.

> They are paying to remain ignorant appliance operators.
>
> I don't know why you call yourself "Johnny Rebel".
>
> You are a corporate sheep.
>
> Oh yeh. I forgot. Lies the corporations' principal tools.
>
> [delete]
>
> Sid
>
>

The Natural Philosopher · External Since: Jul 06, 2009 Posts: 10

Sidney Lambe wrote:
> Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8.TakeThisOut@verizon.net> wrote:
>> Sidney Lambe wrote:
>
> [delete]
>
>>> Just Say No
>>>
>>> to KDE/Gnome/Xfce/and so on.
>> It is no fun trying to run the lynx web browser with modern web sites.
>
> Now there is a remarkably ignorant statement coming from someone
> who claims (in the rest of this article, deleleted) to be a
> Linux expert.
>
> I run firefox here when necessary, and bash is my user interface.
> I don't run an "integrated graphical desktop environment" like
> KDE or Gnome or Xfce.
>
> You just enter "firefox &" on the commandline and firefox is
> launched and the prompt is cleared.
>

Golly. I remember people doing that ten years ago..

> Duh <<<<<<<<<
>
> (I have it 'aliased' to a function
> in my bashrc to "ff", so that's all I have to enter).
>
> So are you actually this ignorant or are you a corporate shill
> trying to disinform people?
>
> It's not that I can do anything from the commandline that someone
> can do with KDE. I can do _more_.
>
> And it's easier to learn bash than it is to learn KDE, starting
> from scratch.
>
> Don't let these technocrats mislead you. They want to produce
> ignorant appliance operators so that you'll be dependent on
> them.
>
> [delete]
>
>
> Sid

Sidney Lambe · External Since: Jul 05, 2009 Posts: 20

The Natural Philosopher <tnp RemoveThis @invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Sidney Lambe wrote:
>> Johnny Rebel <rebel RemoveThis @none.com> wrote:
>>> Sidney Lambe wrote:
>>>> Allen Kistler <ackistler RemoveThis @oohay.moc> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> [delete]
>>>>
>>>>> BTW, Red Hat's subscription fees are not
>>>>> version-specific. If you paid for RHEL5, you can switch to RHEL3.
>>>> The world is indeed coming to an end. People are paying
>>>> for Linux.
>>> Nothing wrong with that at all, it is all in the spirit of the GPL. The
>>> best thing is, you don't have to pay for it, it is your choice.
>>
>> Yes, there is something wrong with it. They are paying for avoiding
>> learning Linux.
>>
> Do you service your won car? Perform your own lobotomies? Salughter your
> own cattle?
>
> Jeez.

Says a man who can't tell the difference between sitting at a computer
and typing and reading and doing the above tasks.

Not too long ago a person this stupid would not have been able to
run Linux.

Then along came KDE and the like, and ignorant and lazy couch
potatos like him can now pretend that they are.

No, fool. I don't do any of those things. But like scores of
thousands of people around the world, I run Linux without KDE
or anything like it. I run Linux from the commandline.

All one needs to learn are the basics of how Linux works
and the basics of Bash.

Yes, I know. You are too busy running around the Internet
and posting stupid articles like this to do a little studying.

(I can't believe I bothered to read one of this obnoxious
motormouth's articles.)

[delete]

A quick google of "how linux works" brings us:

http://www.comptechdoc.org/os/linux/howlinuxworks/

Looks decent.

Here's the best aid to learning bash I know of:

http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/

Don't let the 'advanced' in the title throw you. It
starts with the basics. Lots of great examples.

Sid

B Sellers · External Since: Jul 05, 2009 Posts: 4

Sidney Lambe wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp.RemoveThis@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> Sidney Lambe wrote:
>>> Johnny Rebel <rebel.RemoveThis@none.com> wrote:
>>>> Sidney Lambe wrote:
>>>>> Allen Kistler <ackistler.RemoveThis@oohay.moc> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> [delete]
>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW, Red Hat's subscription fees are not
>>>>>> version-specific. If you paid for RHEL5, you can switch to RHEL3.
>>>>> The world is indeed coming to an end. People are paying
>>>>> for Linux.
>>>> Nothing wrong with that at all, it is all in the spirit of the GPL. The
>>>> best thing is, you don't have to pay for it, it is your choice.
>>> Yes, there is something wrong with it. They are paying for avoiding
>>> learning Linux.
>>>
>> Do you service your won car? Perform your own lobotomies? Salughter your
>> own cattle?
>>
>> Jeez.
>
> Says a man who can't tell the difference between sitting at a computer
> and typing and reading and doing the above tasks.
>
> Not too long ago a person this stupid would not have been able to
> run Linux.
>
> Then along came KDE and the like, and ignorant and lazy couch
> potatos like him can now pretend that they are.

Are what?
They are using a computer nothing more and nothing less.
They are not finding their self-worth by indulging in
the use of obscurely named commands in virtual terminal sessions.
That you can is great. Most of the LUG I see twice a
month is more skilled than I but some of the most skilled have no idea
of the aesthetic quality available in setting up a GUI or much skill
in using it outside of their browser and old fashioned Text processors.

>
> No, fool. I don't do any of those things. But like scores of
> thousands of people around the world, I run Linux without KDE
> or anything like it. I run Linux from the commandline.

Congratulation on having learned to do something that
makes you feel so special. I used to use Amiga OS from the
CLI formatting up to 4 floppies at a time. Before that
I used a C=64 & 128 with an old fashion WP that embedded its
commands but I was younger then. I am about 20 years older
than that now. When I switched to WYSIWG WP on the Amiga
my through-put went up.

Stop trying to scare off the newbies from using
GNU/Linux. KDE 3.5.9 works fine. And it is not like Windows.
I use XP on Dual Boot with LiLo and it is harder to setup
than Mandriva Linux which found my old Farralon E-net card
right off the bat and ran with it. Friday I switched to a more
modern card from Trendnet and it found it and used it immediately
with minimal input from me. When I go out to bi-monthly
meetings of the LUG it finds my AirCard and connects automatically.
Windows is far less secure and seems to work by obfuscation between
the User and the machine.

> All one needs to learn are the basics of how Linux works
> and the basics of Bash.

Oh sure! But I am of little brain like the honorable
Pooh Bear.
>
> Yes, I know. You are too busy running around the Internet
> and posting stupid articles like this to do a little studying.

No my attention span is short and my brain is damaged
by illness. When I study I prefer historical and sociological
works.

> (I can't believe I bothered to read one of this obnoxious
> motormouth's articles.)
>
> [delete]
>
> A quick google of "how linux works" brings us:
>
> http://www.comptechdoc.org/os/linux/howlinuxworks/
>
> Looks decent.
>
> Here's the best aid to learning bash I know of:
>
> http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/
>
> Don't let the 'advanced' in the title throw you. It
> starts with the basics. Lots of great examples.
>
>
> Sid

The CLI/Terminal Only religion. Are you the
Pope of it?

later
bliss

Nico Kadel-Garcia · External Since: Jul 05, 2009 Posts: 7

On Jul 6, 7:02 am, Matt Giwer <jul... DeleteThis @tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> Sidney Lambe wrote:
> > Allen Kistler <ackist... DeleteThis @oohay.moc> wrote:
> > [delete]
> >> BTW, Red Hat's subscription fees are not
> >> version-specific. If you paid for RHEL5, you can switch to RHEL3.
> > The world is indeed coming to an end. People are paying
> > for Linux.
> > But even worse, people are _selling_ Linux.
> > I'd guess that RH uses closed-source proprietary software, too.
> > And that they have 800 numbers for paid tech support.
> > Add KDE and you've got Windows.
> > [delete]
> > It'll be a cold day in Hell before I'll pay for Linux software
> > or install closed-source software on my box. Or pay for technical
> > support.
> > Sure, I send a few bucks to various developers/maintainers now and then, but
> > this is a gift of appreciation, not payment. It isn'[t business. It's
> > amateurs supporting amateurs.
> > Real Linux is amateur.
> > When did the corruption of Linux by the corporate technocrats begin?
> > With user interfaces like KDE and Gnome, making it possible, with
> > the help of formal technical support, for ignorant appliance operators
> > to use the obscured Linux OS underlying the interface without knowing
> > anything about it. They don't learn Linux, they learn KDE.
>
> Their business model is to sell support for the Enterprise version. The free
> releases are their provers. Also I have read the free releases are to get
> feedback to identify all the bugs and glitches which, when fixed, go into the
> Enterprise releases. If that is correct then FC9 with all the updates should
> be very close to the latest Enterprise release. Going by the stock price it is
> working quite well.

RedHat also tests out material for the enterprise world by trying it
on us eager beavers with Fedora. It seems a workable business model,
and has paid my salary the last few years. (Getting the GNU licensing
spelled out for my work can be an adventure, but education is half the
fun.)

And I seriously predate Linux, Hell, I was beta-testing HURD and was
delighted when Linux provided a useful license.

Check "Sidneys" posting history, note the lack of any political or
technical insight, maybe even note how he discusses "Linux" and
"Magick" with the same sorts of attitude and lack of documentation and
move on.