Tablets for Linux

Alec Ross · External Since: Dec 16, 2004 Posts: 32

Hi,

I'm looking for suggestions (+ & - ) for a tablet to use with major
Linux distros.

What I'd like, amongst other things, is:
- touch screen
- readily usable s/w to support on-screen keyboard
- useful amounts of on-board memory
- pointers to any community group(s)
- h/w suggestions

The sorts of thing that would be candidates would be anything that is
offered with this kind of capability (e.g. along the lines of [1]);
plus, perhaps, Android tablets that could be dual-booted or re-purposed;
or, particularly, anything else.

Ideally pre-loaded w/ a common distro; but certainly something that
could easily be set up w/ others.

TIA

[1] e.g. HP's TouchSmart tm2, or Slate
--
Alec Ross

Theo Markettos · External Since: Sep 06, 2005 Posts: 40

Alec Ross wrote:
> What I'd like, amongst other things, is:
> - touch screen
> - readily usable s/w to support on-screen keyboard
> - useful amounts of on-board memory
> - pointers to any community group(s)
> - h/w suggestions
>
> The sorts of thing that would be candidates would be anything that is
> offered with this kind of capability (e.g. along the lines of [1]);
> plus, perhaps, Android tablets that could be dual-booted or re-purposed;
> or, particularly, anything else.

eeePad Transformer? Never tried one, but they look nice. Android and
Ubuntu, I think. You get a real keyboard too.

Theo

Alec Ross · External Since: Dec 16, 2004 Posts: 32

Thanks, Theo.

BR,

Alec

In message , Theo Markettos
writes
>Alec Ross wrote:
>> What I'd like, amongst other things, is:
>> - touch screen
>> - readily usable s/w to support on-screen keyboard
>> - useful amounts of on-board memory
>> - pointers to any community group(s)
>> - h/w suggestions
>>
>> The sorts of thing that would be candidates would be anything that is
>> offered with this kind of capability (e.g. along the lines of [1]);
>> plus, perhaps, Android tablets that could be dual-booted or re-purposed;
>> or, particularly, anything else.
>
>eeePad Transformer? Never tried one, but they look nice. Android and
>Ubuntu, I think. You get a real keyboard too.
>
>Theo

--
Alec Ross

Daniel James · External Since: Jan 31, 2010 Posts: 41

In article , Theo Markettos
wrote:
> eeePad Transformer? Never tried one, but they look nice. Android and
> Ubuntu, I think.

SWMBO has one. It's Android only.

I don't know how easy it would be to put a pukka Linux distro on this
thing ... there's nothing to say that it boots in the same way as a
normal PC.

If I'm allowed to, I'll see whether it can boot from USB, and whether a
Linux live CD/USB will boot. If/when that happens I'll report back.

I suspect that it would be easier to put Linux onto a tablet that was
designed for Windows ... but then one ends up paying the "Microsoft Tax"
to get it.

Cheers,
Daniel.

Bruce Stephens · External Since: Aug 19, 2004 Posts: 196

Daniel James writes:

[...]

> I suspect that it would be easier to put Linux onto a tablet that was
> designed for Windows ... but then one ends up paying the "Microsoft Tax"
> to get it.

Not just the cost of Windows, but such tablets have mostly been quite a
bit more expensive than the post-iPad set.

[...]

Dave Farrance · External Since: Apr 25, 2005 Posts: 387

Alec Ross wrote:

>I'm looking for suggestions (+ & - ) for a tablet to use with major
>Linux distros.

Yep, great idea but too early.

Some of the major distros have an ARM CPU version in its infancy, but only
for guru-level-hackers to test on the various platforms. The Linaro
kernel development is coming along nicely, so hopefully the time will come
when *most* Linux distros can be installed by the end-user on *most*
tablets, much as they currently can be installed on most PCs and laptops.

There are a few ARM devices with Linux already installed, but those have
heavily-customised distros with uncertain or nonexistent update plans.

In the meantime, I guess you'll have to search out the few power-hungry
and slow x86-compatible-CPU tablets.

Gordon Henderson · External Since: Jun 10, 2007 Posts: 32

In article ,
Daniel James wrote:
>In article , Theo Markettos
>wrote:
>> eeePad Transformer? Never tried one, but they look nice. Android and
>> Ubuntu, I think.
>
>SWMBO has one. It's Android only.
>
>I don't know how easy it would be to put a pukka Linux distro on this
>thing ... there's nothing to say that it boots in the same way as a
>normal PC.
>
>If I'm allowed to, I'll see whether it can boot from USB, and whether a
>Linux live CD/USB will boot. If/when that happens I'll report back.

Might not be quite there yet..

According to this, anyway:

http://androlinux.com/android-ubuntu-development/native-ubuntu-on-eeep...transfo

Gordon

Tony Houghton · External Since: Jul 22, 2006 Posts: 206

In ,
Nick Leverton wrote:

> ARM in the shape of armel is of course an official Debian architecture,
> if that's any help (i.e. it should have desktop and server packages all
> fully ported). There are a couple of web pages about installing Debian
> on your sandwich toaster Smile

Debian announced an armhf (hardware floating point) port this week.
Assuming previous versions used soft FP and that tablets use the right
sort of ARM, that should run a bit better.

--
TH * http://www.realh.co.uk

marc · External Since: Nov 27, 2011 Posts: 4

Alec Ross wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for suggestions (+ & - ) for a tablet to use with major
> Linux distros.
>
> What I'd like, amongst other things, is:
> - touch screen
> - readily usable s/w to support on-screen keyboard
> - useful amounts of on-board memory
> - pointers to any community group(s)
> - h/w suggestions
>

wetab:
http://wetab.mobi/en/product

amazon.de for 280 euros ... 1Gb/16Gb/...

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Nick Leverton · External Since: Dec 24, 2004 Posts: 79

In article ,
Tony Houghton wrote:
>In ,
>Nick Leverton wrote:
>
>> ARM in the shape of armel is of course an official Debian architecture,
>> if that's any help (i.e. it should have desktop and server packages all
>> fully ported). There are a couple of web pages about installing Debian
>> on your sandwich toaster Smile

>
>Debian announced an armhf (hardware floating point) port this week.
>Assuming previous versions used soft FP and that tablets use the right
>sort of ARM, that should run a bit better.

Indeed so, I knew it was under discussion but hadn't realised it was
that close. The armhf boostrap packages entered the archive this weekend,
so the full distro should be available for unstable over the coming few
weeks, depending how quickly the autobuilders work and any build bugs
get fixed.

Nick
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Dave Farrance · External Since: Apr 25, 2005 Posts: 387

Nick Leverton wrote:

>In article ,
>Tony Houghton wrote:
>>In ,
>>Debian announced an armhf (hardware floating point) port this week.
>>Assuming previous versions used soft FP and that tablets use the right
>>sort of ARM, that should run a bit better.
>
>Indeed so, I knew it was under discussion but hadn't realised it was
>that close. The armhf boostrap packages entered the archive this weekend,
>so the full distro should be available for unstable over the coming few
>weeks, depending how quickly the autobuilders work and any build bugs
>get fixed.

But will this be approaching something meaningful for the end-user yet? So
far, the various ARM distro releases have still required a linux-whiz team
rather than an end-user to actually make the distro work on a specific
hardware item and provide the hardware-specific binary-distro. For
example, the fascinating Raspberry Pi will have Debian, but they've had a
capable team working on it for months (years?), and probably for some
months to come. Hopefully, generic ARM linux distros for the end user
will be available in the future but I've no real idea of how far in the
future that is.

Nick Leverton · External Since: Dec 24, 2004 Posts: 79

In article ,
Dave Farrance wrote:
>>In article ,
>>Tony Houghton wrote:
>>>In ,
>>>Debian announced an armhf (hardware floating point) port this week.
>>>Assuming previous versions used soft FP and that tablets use the right
>>>sort of ARM, that should run a bit better.
>
>But will this be approaching something meaningful for the end-user yet? So
>far, the various ARM distro releases have still required a linux-whiz team
>rather than an end-user to actually make the distro work on a specific
>hardware item and provide the hardware-specific binary-distro. For
>example, the fascinating Raspberry Pi will have Debian, but they've had a
>capable team working on it for months (years?), and probably for some
>months to come. Hopefully, generic ARM linux distros for the end user
>will be available in the future but I've no real idea of how far in the
>future that is.

Given the present state of ARM kernels (each platform more or less has
its own subtree, a topic of some dissatisfaction to Linus lately) I'd
expect it will still need someone familiar with the Eee pad to configure
a kernel for it at the source level. It's a bit more work than just
"make menuconfig && make". But once that is done then, based on what
people seem to have done with other devices, I think Debian should All
Just Work (tm).

Nick
--
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"The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
-- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996

Theo Markettos · External Since: Sep 06, 2005 Posts: 40

Nick Leverton wrote:
> Given the present state of ARM kernels (each platform more or less has
> its own subtree, a topic of some dissatisfaction to Linus lately) I'd
> expect it will still need someone familiar with the Eee pad to configure
> a kernel for it at the source level. It's a bit more work than just
> "make menuconfig && make". But once that is done then, based on what
> people seem to have done with other devices, I think Debian should All
> Just Work (tm).

I'm not completely clear on how much the kernel depends on the floating
point ABI (I don't know if the kernel does any FP at all), but IME you can
pretty much mix and match kernel and userland. I have a wireless router
that uses a kernel from OpenWRT because only that has the right drivers for
the Broadcom router SoC. Then it runs a standard Debian mipsel userland...
apt-get dist-upgrade did a full Debian release upgrade on everything on the
system without a hitch. The biggest headache was getting the initrd
into the right format to go into flash (and not try and start OpenWRT).

The other headache is kernel modules, but a tablet (like a router) has
fairly static hardware. Best to maintain your own kernel build so that if a
new graphics driver/etc appears you can rebuild it statically into the
kernel, rather than relying on packaged binary modules that probably don't
match your kernel. make-kpkg (etc) in a Debian kernel tree are quite
friendly here.

Theo

Nix · External Since: Jul 29, 2004 Posts: 746

On 26 Nov 2011, Daniel James verbalised:
> I don't know how easy it would be to put a pukka Linux distro on this
> thing ... there's nothing to say that it boots in the same way as a
> normal PC.

It's ARM. It's safe to say that it boots in its own insane fashion.

--
NULL && (void)

marc · External Since: Nov 27, 2011 Posts: 4

marc wrote:

> wetab:
> http://wetab.mobi/en/product
>
> amazon.de for 280 euros ... 1Gb/16Gb/...
>

wetab = atom = intel = standard linux can run on it...

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Nick Leverton · External Since: Dec 24, 2004 Posts: 79

In article ,
Theo Markettos wrote:
>Nick Leverton wrote:
>> Given the present state of ARM kernels (each platform more or less has
>> its own subtree, a topic of some dissatisfaction to Linus lately) I'd
>> expect it will still need someone familiar with the Eee pad to configure
>> a kernel for it at the source level. It's a bit more work than just
>> "make menuconfig && make". But once that is done then, based on what
>> people seem to have done with other devices, I think Debian should All
>> Just Work (tm).
>
>I'm not completely clear on how much the kernel depends on the floating
>point ABI (I don't know if the kernel does any FP at all),

I don't believe it does normally, having had to forward-port a driver
which did need floating point (yes Unicorn, I'm looking at you).

>The other headache is kernel modules, but a tablet (like a router) has
>fairly static hardware. Best to maintain your own kernel build so that if a
>new graphics driver/etc appears you can rebuild it statically into the
>kernel, rather than relying on packaged binary modules that probably don't
>match your kernel. make-kpkg (etc) in a Debian kernel tree are quite
>friendly here.

The problem with ARM architectures is that there's not much in the way
of standardised platform devices. Each platform (SoC or otherwise)
seems to have its own set of drivers with little commonality, and its
own setup.c to define them. It would need some knowledge of the tablet's
hardware devices in order to create a kernel for it.

There is a move to standardise this stuff, devicetree and the
performed-at-penguin-beakpoint ARM kernel refactoring etc, but when I
looked at the embedded device kernel tree last year in order to do some
AVR32 work, the outwardly standard ARM kernel tree was even more of a
mess than the AVR ports.

Nick
--
Serendipity: http://www.leverton.org/blosxom (last update 29th March 2010)
"The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
-- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996

Daniel James · External Since: Jan 31, 2010 Posts: 41

In article , Nix wrote:
[ Asus eee pad TF101 "Transformer" ]
> It's ARM. It's safe to say that it boots in its own insane fashion.

You're right! Silly me, I was thinking the nVidia Tegra was x86 <blush>
... no wonder it has such good battery life.

That doesn't mean that a full Linux distro (built for Arm) couldn't be
put on it, but probably does mean that it won't just boot off a USB
stick, whatever's on it!

Cheers,
Daniel.

alexd · External Since: Dec 15, 2005 Posts: 93

Dave Farrance (for it is he) wrote:

> Hopefully, generic ARM linux distros for the end user
> will be available in the future but I've no real idea of how far in the
> future that is.

There's no standard BIOS with ARM which makes it a lot harder to even get
started. At least with an x86 system you get a chance to get it booted work
from there, but if you can't even get a bootloader working, what are the
chances that an enthusiastic amateur is going to stick around?

http://lwn.net/Articles/355420/

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