RMS: "I would rather have no software than closed software."

 
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Kier
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Since: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 2207



PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:49 pm    Post subject: Re: RMS: "I would rather have no software than closed software." [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: comp>os>linux>advocacy (more info?)

On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 09:39:49 -0400, Donn Miller wrote:

> Kier wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 20:40:46 +0200, Hadron Quark wrote:
>>
>>> "DFS" writes:
>
>>> He even denies there is a gang!
>>
>> The only gang here is you and DFS and flatfish and all the other arseholes.
>>
>
> Cmon Kier, admit it. All of Hadron's, DFS', and flatfish's neighbors
> leave and come home at the same time as they do, and it's all because of
> you and your hidden COLA citizen gang!
>

You got me bang to rights, guv! <grin>

--
Kier
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Oliver Wong
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Since: Apr 27, 2006
Posts: 1398



PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:21 pm    Post subject: Re: RMS: "I would rather have no software than closed software." [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"DFS" wrote in message

> If closed
> software was the only option in the world, and he truly "would rather have
> none", then he would be writing everything longhand w/ pen and paper or
> using a Royal typewriter

Let's hope the pens weren't designed in with a closed source 3D
modeller. Or if the modeller was open source, let's hope it wasn't running
on a closed source operating system. Or if the operating system was open
source, let's hope the OS wasn't running on a computer with closed source
BIOS. And if the computer was completely open, let's hope that the 3D
modeller's life, nor any of his ancestor's lives, didn't depend on any
medical discoveries developed based on closed source software.

If those software weren't available, those medical discoveries might
never have been made, which means the designer might never have lived past
13, which means he might never have designed that specific pen that RMS
would want to use. To be safe, he could pluck a bird feather, and dip it in
ink from water he collected himself from rainfall. He'd need some pigments,
perhaps from berries, but he'd have to pick them himself, as the
supermarkets' inventory and point-of-sale systems probably use closed source
software.

>>>> but it's not up to
>>>> him what software runs an aeroplane or a blood lab.
>>>
>>> Then maybe he should say "As much as possible, I avoid the use of
>>> closed software."
>>>
>>> Instead he couches it in almost religious terms, when in fact he
>>> violates his "tenet" immediately if it's convenient, ie take a car
>>> or airplane that runs closed-source code and contributes to a
>>> restriction of everyone's "freedom".
>>
>> An Aeroplane is a bad example. I don't think people "use" the
>> aeroplane's source code, nor anyone would want them to.
>
> Whatever example, then. A toaster, let's say, or a bike computer or Tivo
> machine. Lots of modern toasters and bike computers and Tivo have chips
> and
> embedded, proprietary code the manufacturer won't give away. I'm quite
> sure
> he would use a modern toaster or bike computer or Tivo regardless of the
> closed code.
>
> Therefore, his claim is empty.

I haven't met RMS, but from what I've read of him, I'd imagine he
*would* actually shun toasters, "bike computers" (whatever that is), and
Tivos. But I suspect he wouldn't mind using a pen which was designed with
the help of closed source software. Or buy food from a supermarket which
uses closed source software. I don't know what he does about airplanes.
Being famous, I assume he must fly around somewhat regularly.

- Oliver
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Linonut
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Since: Mar 31, 2006
Posts: 3492



PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:21 pm    Post subject: Re: RMS: "I would rather have no software than closed software." [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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After takin' a swig o' grog, Oliver Wong belched out this bit o' wisdom:

> I haven't met RMS, but from what I've read of him, I'd imagine he
> *would* actually shun toasters, "bike computers" (whatever that is), and
> Tivos. But I suspect he wouldn't mind using a pen which was designed with
> the help of closed source software. Or buy food from a supermarket which
> uses closed source software. I don't know what he does about airplanes.
> Being famous, I assume he must fly around somewhat regularly.

Sure. But I believe he is most worried about hiding software that is
used for information transfer in individuals computers, not in public
transport.

In other words, code to which he has access.

Why don't you email him? His address is easy to find.

--
Loose bits sink chips.
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Oliver Wong
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Since: Apr 27, 2006
Posts: 1398



PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:26 pm    Post subject: Re: RMS: "I would rather have no software than closed software." [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Linonut" wrote in message

> After takin' a swig o' grog, Larry Qualig belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>
>> DFS wrote:
>>> Ugh... he's just plain disturbing.
>>>
>>> http://people.kde.nl/celeste.html
>>
>> Making outrageous statements like this keeps him in the news. It's
>> doubtful he actually means it. But it doesn't really matter because the
>> point of saying this was to gain publicity and press.
>
> You talking about RMS, Ballmer, or McBride?

RMS. See the subject line, and the article linked to.

- Oliver
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Linonut
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Since: Mar 31, 2006
Posts: 3492



PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:26 pm    Post subject: Re: RMS: "I would rather have no software than closed software." [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

After takin' a swig o' grog, Oliver Wong belched out this bit o' wisdom:

>>> Making outrageous statements like this keeps him in the news. It's
>>> doubtful he actually means it. But it doesn't really matter because the
>>> point of saying this was to gain publicity and press.
>>
>> You talking about RMS, Ballmer, or McBride?
>
> RMS. See the subject line, and the article linked to.

(Mental note: Oliver lacks a sense of humor even more than Funkenbusch
does.)

--
"These changes do mean that we are not pursuing a separate delivery of
WinFS .... With most of our effort now working towards productizing mature
aspects of the WinFS project into SQL and ADO.NET, we do not need to deliver
a separate WinFS offering. -- Quentin Clark on the WinFS Team Blog
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DFS
External


Since: Jun 07, 2005
Posts: 3651



PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:03 am    Post subject: Re: RMS: "I would rather have no software than closed software." [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Larry Qualig wrote:
> DFS wrote:

>> Welcome back, Mr. Qualig. What's new?
>
> "Mr. Qualig???" - Is my dad here too?



> Even Labor Day weekend was a bit crazy. Our vacation ended in NYC
> where we had tickets to see the US-Open tennis tournament. The
> matches got rained out but we had a great time in the city anyway.

Bummer about the rain, but it was a great tournament. Agassi retirement,
Roddick in the finals, Blake-Federer match, Federer win, Shriekapova win.


> The next day (Monday) I had tickets to the Deutsche Bank
> golf tournament that's played out here in Norton, MA and we got to
> see Tiger win his 5th straight.

That's a very impressive feat. They all choke on the last 9 on Sunday...
except for Tiger Woods. Give most of those guys a 3-stroke lead start of
Sunday, and they'll throw it away, but he won't.

I'll see them in November, at the Tour Championship down here at East Lake
Country Club.
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Oliver Wong
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Since: Apr 27, 2006
Posts: 1398



PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:34 am    Post subject: Re: RMS: "I would rather have no software than closed software." [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Linonut" wrote in message

> After takin' a swig o' grog, Oliver Wong belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>
>> I haven't met RMS, but from what I've read of him, I'd imagine he
>> *would* actually shun toasters, "bike computers" (whatever that is), and
>> Tivos. But I suspect he wouldn't mind using a pen which was designed with
>> the help of closed source software. Or buy food from a supermarket which
>> uses closed source software. I don't know what he does about airplanes.
>> Being famous, I assume he must fly around somewhat regularly.
>
> Sure. But I believe he is most worried about hiding software that is
> used for information transfer in individuals computers, not in public
> transport.
>
> In other words, code to which he has access.
>
> Why don't you email him? His address is easy to find.

Okay, I've e-mailed, and here's the automated reply I got, so we've got
to wait a bit:

<quote>
I am not on vacation, but I am at the end of a long time delay. I am
located somewhere on Earth, but as far as responding to email is concerned,
I appear to be well outside the solar system.

After your message arrives at gnu.org, I will collect it in my next batch of
incoming mail, some time within the following 24 hours. I will spend much
of the following day reading that batch of mail and will come across your
message at some point. If I can write a response for it immediately, the
response will go out in the next outgoing batch--typically around 24 hours
after I collected your message, but occasionally sooner or later than that.
As a result, you should expect a minimum delay of between 24 and 48 hours in
seeing any response to your mail to me.
</quote>

- Oliver
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Oliver Wong
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Since: Apr 27, 2006
Posts: 1398



PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:45 pm    Post subject: Re: RMS: "I would rather have no software than closed software." [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Oliver Wong" wrote in message

>
> "Linonut" wrote in message
>
>> After takin' a swig o' grog, Oliver Wong belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>>
>>> I haven't met RMS, but from what I've read of him, I'd imagine he
>>> *would* actually shun toasters, "bike computers" (whatever that is), and
>>> Tivos. But I suspect he wouldn't mind using a pen which was designed
>>> with
>>> the help of closed source software. Or buy food from a supermarket which
>>> uses closed source software. I don't know what he does about airplanes.
>>> Being famous, I assume he must fly around somewhat regularly.
>>
>> Sure. But I believe he is most worried about hiding software that is
>> used for information transfer in individuals computers, not in public
>> transport.
>>
>> In other words, code to which he has access.
>>
>> Why don't you email him? His address is easy to find.
>
> Okay, I've e-mailed, and here's the automated reply I got, so we've got
> to wait a bit:
>
> <quote>
> I am not on vacation, but I am at the end of a long time delay. I am
> located somewhere on Earth, but as far as responding to email is
> concerned, I appear to be well outside the solar system.
>
> After your message arrives at gnu.org, I will collect it in my next batch
> of incoming mail, some time within the following 24 hours. I will spend
> much of the following day reading that batch of mail and will come across
> your message at some point. If I can write a response for it immediately,
> the response will go out in the next outgoing batch--typically around 24
> hours after I collected your message, but occasionally sooner or later
> than that.
> As a result, you should expect a minimum delay of between 24 and 48 hours
> in seeing any response to your mail to me.
> </quote>

Well, I haven't gotten a reply yet, so I can only assume that he isn't
going to reply.

So this is why it isn't very useful to e-mail him.

- Oliver
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Marshall
External


Since: Nov 28, 2004
Posts: 45



PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:22 pm    Post subject: Re: RMS: "I would rather have no software than closed software." [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Oliver Wong wrote:

>>
>> <quote>
>> I am not on vacation, but I am at the end of a long time delay. I am
>> located somewhere on Earth, but as far as responding to email is
>> concerned, I appear to be well outside the solar system.
>>
>> After your message arrives at gnu.org, I will collect it in my next batch
>> of incoming mail, some time within the following 24 hours. I will spend
>> much of the following day reading that batch of mail and will come across
>> your message at some point. If I can write a response for it immediately,
>> the response will go out in the next outgoing batch--typically around 24
>> hours after I collected your message, but occasionally sooner or later
>> than that.
>> As a result, you should expect a minimum delay of between 24 and 48 hours
>> in seeing any response to your mail to me.
>> </quote>
>
> Well, I haven't gotten a reply yet, so I can only assume that he isn't
> going to reply.
>
> So this is why it isn't very useful to e-mail him.
>
> - Oliver
>
>

I don't see promise made by Mr Stallman to answer each and every email
and as much as I think some forces would like to put a leash on him, I
don't believe that event has happened yet either.
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Oliver Wong
External


Since: Apr 27, 2006
Posts: 1398



PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 7:56 pm    Post subject: Re: RMS: "I would rather have no software than closed software." [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Marshall" wrote in message

> Oliver Wong wrote:
>
>>>
>>> <quote>
>>> I am not on vacation, but I am at the end of a long time delay. I am
>>> located somewhere on Earth, but as far as responding to email is
>>> concerned, I appear to be well outside the solar system.
>>>
>>> After your message arrives at gnu.org, I will collect it in my next
>>> batch of incoming mail, some time within the following 24 hours. I will
>>> spend much of the following day reading that batch of mail and will come
>>> across your message at some point. If I can write a response for it
>>> immediately, the response will go out in the next outgoing
>>> batch--typically around 24 hours after I collected your message, but
>>> occasionally sooner or later than that.
>>> As a result, you should expect a minimum delay of between 24 and 48
>>> hours in seeing any response to your mail to me.
>>> </quote>
>>
>> Well, I haven't gotten a reply yet, so I can only assume that he
>> isn't going to reply.
>>
>> So this is why it isn't very useful to e-mail him.
>
> I don't see promise made by Mr Stallman to answer each and every email and
> as much as I think some forces would like to put a leash on him, I don't
> believe that event has happened yet either.

Agreed. There is nothing to force Mr. Stallman to reply to my e-mails.
The point of my post, though, was to answer "Why don't you email him?", not
to criticize Mr. Stallman for not replying to my e-mails.

- Oliver
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