RMS: "I would rather have no software than closed software."

 
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DFS
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Since: Jun 07, 2005
Posts: 3651



PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:14 pm    Post subject: RMS: "I would rather have no software than closed software."
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Ugh... he's just plain disturbing.

http://people.kde.nl/celeste.html
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flatfish+++
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Since: Dec 12, 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:28 pm    Post subject: Re: RMS: "I would rather have no software than closed software." [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 11:14:48 -0400, DFS wrote:

> Ugh... he's just plain disturbing.
>
> http://people.kde.nl/celeste.html

I dunno.
She's kinda cute........
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Linonut
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Since: Mar 31, 2006
Posts: 3492



PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:45 pm    Post subject: Re: RMS: "I would rather have no software than closed software." [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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After takin' a swig o' grog, DFS belched out this bit o' wisdom:

> Ugh... he's just plain disturbing.
>
> http://people.kde.nl/celeste.html

That was one little quote:

I recently heard RMS speak at a conference, my most memorable quote
from him was "I would rather have no software than closed software".
Although you have to admire how strongly he believes in his causes, I
prefer a more practical approach to free/open information. Some
progress is better than no progress.

I believe that RMS is simply embittered by his experiences with
closed-source software vendors and the exposure of Microsoft's attempts
to kill open-source.

--
It's not a bug, it's a feature!
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DFS
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Since: Jun 07, 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:10 pm    Post subject: Re: RMS: "I would rather have no software than closed software." [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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flatfish+++ wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 11:14:48 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> Ugh... he's just plain disturbing.
>>
>> http://people.kde.nl/celeste.html
>
> I dunno.
> She's kinda cute........

heee... I thought she was too. In fact, I perused her website and blog for
other pics; that's by far the best one. In other pics she died her hair
blue or red.

She's one of the interface designers for KDE, and I think they've done a
good job.
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DFS
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Since: Jun 07, 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:55 pm    Post subject: Re: RMS: "I would rather have no software than closed software." [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Hadron Quark wrote:
> "DFS" writes:
>
>> flatfish+++ wrote:
>>> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 11:14:48 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ugh... he's just plain disturbing.
>>>>
>>>> http://people.kde.nl/celeste.html
>>>
>>> I dunno.
>>> She's kinda cute........
>>
>> heee... I thought she was too. In fact, I perused her website and
>> blog for other pics; that's by far the best one. In other pics she
>> died her hair blue or red.
>>
>> She's one of the interface designers for KDE, and I think they've
>> done a good job.
>>
>>
>
> Really? Its ok, but not great IMO.

I haven't picked it apart for 100% consistency between every app in KDE, but
on the whole it's very well done. There are lots of system applets, and
lots of options. It's very customizable. It's by far the best de in the
Linux world.

The KDE Control Center is superior to the Windows Control Panel. Open up
KDE Control Center, go to the search tab and click on a keyword. One or
more results pops up in the bottom. Click on a result and up pops an applet
to configure your system. Very slick! I like that drill-down feature, and
I like that each applet is contained in the one interface. Windows opens up
a separate app for everything.

The KDE documentation still stinks, though.
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DFS
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Since: Jun 07, 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:01 pm    Post subject: Re: RMS: "I would rather have no software than closed software." [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Linonut wrote:

> I believe that RMS is simply embittered by his experiences with
> closed-source software vendors and the exposure of Microsoft's
> attempts to kill open-source.

He does sound embittered. Last I checked, half his website was a protest
against something.

He's warped. He calls people "ethically tainted" for releasing closed
source software. How ridiculous.
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Kier
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Since: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 2207



PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:25 pm    Post subject: Re: RMS: "I would rather have no software than closed software." [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 11:14:48 -0400, DFS wrote:

> Ugh... he's just plain disturbing.
>
> http://people.kde.nl/celeste.html

Only to people like you.

He's honest, and has principles he sticks with.

--
Kier
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Linonut
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Since: Mar 31, 2006
Posts: 3492



PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:25 pm    Post subject: Re: RMS: "I would rather have no software than closed software." [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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After takin' a swig o' grog, DFS belched out this bit o' wisdom:

> Everytime he surfs the web he's using closed-source software. Everytime he
> boots up a computer he's using closed source software. Everytime he drives
> a car or flies an airplane, he's using and/or purchasing the use of closed
> source software. Closed-source software is used everytime his blood is
> analyzed for high cholesterol after his apparent White Castle slob-fests.
> etc etc.

'nuff said.

--
Press "Any" key to continue.
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DFS
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Since: Jun 07, 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:25 pm    Post subject: Re: RMS: "I would rather have no software than closed software." [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Linonut wrote:
> After takin' a swig o' grog, DFS belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>
>> Closed-source
>> software is used everytime his blood is analyzed for high
>> cholesterol after his apparent White Castle slob-fests. etc etc.
>
> 'nuff said.

I know you got a chuckle out of that one... I sure did.
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Oliver Wong
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Since: Apr 27, 2006
Posts: 1398



PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:47 pm    Post subject: Re: RMS: "I would rather have no software than closed software." [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Kier" wrote in message

> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 12:14:33 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>>
>> I'd love to be able to inspect his
[RMSes]
>> personal systems to find out what
>> closed-source code he has installed.
>
> None. You just can't bear to think Richard Stallman might actually be
> exactly what he claims to be, can you? It burns you right up.

I'd be surprised if RMS never utilised closed source software. Wasn't it
only recently, for example, that efforts were made to develop an open source
BIOS? http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=6397 writes "'Last
bastion of closed source' crumbles" and is dated 2002. Presumably, RMS was
using a PC before 2002.

I think most people will agree that "no software" rather than "closed
software" is rather extremist, and somewhat ambiguous. Is he saying that
each person is free to do what they want, but as for him, he'd give up all
software if open source software were not available? Or is he saying that
he'd rather that no one in the world has access to any software, than for
one person to have access to a single closed source program?

- Oliver
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Oliver Wong
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Since: Apr 27, 2006
Posts: 1398



PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:58 pm    Post subject: Re: RMS: "I would rather have no software than closed software." [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Hadron Quark" wrote in message

>
> I dont think the interviewer even realised she
> isnt a KDE programmer. And notice how they get a woody using words like
> "hack". In real companies people who "hack" are usually set adrift very
> quickly.

The "interviewer" actually sounds like a pre-written script, sent out to
everyone who is interviewed. It's worded in such a way so as to be gender
and country neutral.

Yeah, I just checked (click on "previous interviews"), and everybody
gets asked the same set of questions.

- Oliver
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Kier
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Since: Feb 07, 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:17 pm    Post subject: Re: RMS: "I would rather have no software than closed software." [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 16:47:25 +0000, Oliver Wong wrote:

> "Kier" wrote in message
>
>> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 12:14:33 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I'd love to be able to inspect his
> [RMSes]
>>> personal systems to find out what
>>> closed-source code he has installed.
>>
>> None. You just can't bear to think Richard Stallman might actually be
>> exactly what he claims to be, can you? It burns you right up.
>
> I'd be surprised if RMS never utilised closed source software. Wasn't it
> only recently, for example, that efforts were made to develop an open source
> BIOS? http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=6397 writes "'Last
> bastion of closed source' crumbles" and is dated 2002. Presumably, RMS was
> using a PC before 2002.

I should think so. But without a BIOS, a PC won't run at all. No doubt the
DFS's of this worls would say that makes him a lying hypocrite, but sane
people are less idiotic than the likes of DFS.

>
> I think most people will agree that "no software" rather than
> "closed
> software" is rather extremist, and somewhat ambiguous. Is he saying that
> each person is free to do what they want, but as for him, he'd give up
> all software if open source software were not available? Or is he saying
> that he'd rather that no one in the world has access to any software,
> than for one person to have access to a single closed source program?

Both, I think. He's made no secret of the fact that he abhors closed
source software, and thinks it's immoral. As far as I can make out, he
regards it as kind of slavery.

--
Kier
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Kier
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:19 pm    Post subject: Re: RMS: "I would rather have no software than closed software." [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 13:01:04 -0400, DFS wrote:

> Linonut wrote:
>
>> I believe that RMS is simply embittered by his experiences with
>> closed-source software vendors and the exposure of Microsoft's
>> attempts to kill open-source.
>
> He does sound embittered. Last I checked, half his website was a protest
> against something.
>
> He's warped. He calls people "ethically tainted" for releasing closed
> source software. How ridiculous.

Only to people who don't believe in what he believes in. Typical that scum
like you call him warped for having strong principles.

--
Kier
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DFS
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Since: Jun 07, 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:19 pm    Post subject: Re: RMS: "I would rather have no software than closed software." [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Kier wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 13:01:04 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> Linonut wrote:
>>
>>> I believe that RMS is simply embittered by his experiences with
>>> closed-source software vendors and the exposure of Microsoft's
>>> attempts to kill open-source.
>>
>> He does sound embittered. Last I checked, half his website was a
>> protest against something.
>>
>> He's warped. He calls people "ethically tainted" for releasing
>> closed source software. How ridiculous.
>
> Only to people who don't believe in what he believes in. Typical that
> scum like you call him warped for having strong principles.


I'm not sure I understand the psychology of a hypocritical, sniveling weasel
like you:

* you call Richard Stallman "principled" when he labels everyone
"ethically-tainted" who releases closed source code.

* you call me "scum" for labeling him "warped"
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Kier
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Since: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 2207



PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:25 am    Post subject: Re: RMS: "I would rather have no software than closed software." [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 13:43:46 -0400, DFS wrote:

> Kier wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 13:01:04 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> Linonut wrote:
>>>
>>>> I believe that RMS is simply embittered by his experiences with
>>>> closed-source software vendors and the exposure of Microsoft's
>>>> attempts to kill open-source.
>>>
>>> He does sound embittered. Last I checked, half his website was a
>>> protest against something.
>>>
>>> He's warped. He calls people "ethically tainted" for releasing
>>> closed source software. How ridiculous.
>>
>> Only to people who don't believe in what he believes in. Typical that
>> scum like you call him warped for having strong principles.
>
>
> I'm not sure I understand the psychology of a hypocritical, sniveling weasel
> like you:

Like who? Not me, pal.

>
> * you call Richard Stallman "principled" when he labels everyone
> "ethically-tainted" who releases closed source code.
>
> * you call me "scum" for labeling him "warped"

Because you are.

--
Kier
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[H]omer
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Since: Apr 21, 2006
Posts: 2134



PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:03 am    Post subject: Re: RMS: "I would rather have no software than closed software." [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Kier wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 11:14:48 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> Ugh... he's just plain disturbing.
>>
>> http://people.kde.nl/celeste.html
>
> Only to people like you.
>
> He's honest, and has principles he sticks with.

DFS has principles too; specifically fascism and corporate imperialism.

It's pointless arguing with him on the principles of Freedom, since he
simply doesn't believe in the concept; rather he suffers the same slave
mentality that all other corporate imperialists do.

It would be like trying to convince the scorpion not to kill the frog,
(of the fable) ... and in such a self-defeating fashion also kill
himself (metaphorically). He can't help himself - he is what he is: an
evil bastard.

--
K.
http://slated.org - Slated, Rated & Blogged
This message has not been photoshopped in any way.

Fedora Core release 5 (Bordeaux) on sky, running kernel 2.6.16-1.2133_FC5
03:02:17 up 86 days, 3:19, 3 users, load average: 0.03, 0.02, 0.00
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DFS
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Since: Jun 07, 2005
Posts: 3651



PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:03 am    Post subject: Re: RMS: "I would rather have no software than closed software." [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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[H]omer wrote:
> Kier wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 11:14:48 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> Ugh... he's just plain disturbing.
>>>
>>> http://people.kde.nl/celeste.html
>>
>> Only to people like you.
>>
>> He's honest, and has principles he sticks with.
>
> DFS has principles too; specifically fascism and corporate
> imperialism.
>
> It's pointless arguing with him on the principles of Freedom, since he
> simply doesn't believe in the concept; rather he suffers the same
> slave mentality that all other corporate imperialists do.

I simply don't agree that my freedom is in any way impinged upon by paying
for and using licensed, closed-source software developed by others. For me,
at this time, the tradeoff between the quality of that software and that of
f/Free, licensed, open-source software is generally not worth making.

Nor do I feel I or anyone has an inherent "freedom" to copy programs or read
the source or reverse engineer it. Those benefits - and they may be
valuable - may be bestowed upon us by a software license, but they didn't
exist previously and thus they can't be taken away by closed source
software.




> It would be like trying to convince the scorpion not to kill the frog,
> (of the fable) ... and in such a self-defeating fashion also kill
> himself (metaphorically). He can't help himself - he is what he is: an
> evil bastard.

I can't and won't deny I may indeed be evil - a demon if you will (though
not a bastard in the literal sense). But other than a little malicious
newsgroup flaming, I haven't committed any acts of evil.

And remember, there's evil in all humans. Certainly you and many other cola
"advocates" are not exempted.
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DFS
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Since: Jun 07, 2005
Posts: 3651



PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:03 am    Post subject: Re: RMS: "I would rather have no software than closed software." [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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[H]omer wrote:

> DFS has principles too; specifically fascism and corporate
> imperialism.
>
> It's pointless arguing with him on the principles of Freedom, since he
> simply doesn't believe in the concept; rather he suffers the same
> slave mentality that all other corporate imperialists do.


I forgot to ask in my first reply: which imperialist corporations have paid
your way through life?

Didn't you do a gig in Africa for an ***oil company***? (they're the worst
of the "imperialists")

You cola hypocrites slay me.
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Linonut
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Since: Mar 31, 2006
Posts: 3492



PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:32 am    Post subject: Re: RMS: "I would rather have no software than closed software." [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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After takin' a swig o' grog, DFS belched out this bit o' wisdom:

> Linonut wrote:
>
>> I believe that RMS is simply embittered by his experiences with
>> closed-source software vendors and the exposure of Microsoft's
>> attempts to kill open-source.
>
> He does sound embittered. Last I checked, half his website was a protest
> against something.
>
> He's warped. He calls people "ethically tainted" for releasing closed
> source software. How ridiculous.

If true, yes. Or maybe he simply thinks it is ethically tainted to use
closed-source to manipulate money out of people by hiding information.

As a practical matter, one wants the source, in case the author goes
away.

--
"Take her in for regrooving." -- The Firesign Theatre
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DFS
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Since: Jun 07, 2005
Posts: 3651



PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:34 am    Post subject: Re: RMS: "I would rather have no software than closed software." [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Linonut wrote:
> After takin' a swig o' grog, DFS belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>
>> Linonut wrote:
>>
>>> I believe that RMS is simply embittered by his experiences with
>>> closed-source software vendors and the exposure of Microsoft's
>>> attempts to kill open-source.
>>
>> He does sound embittered. Last I checked, half his website was a
>> protest against something.
>>
>> He's warped. He calls people "ethically tainted" for releasing
>> closed source software. How ridiculous.
>
> If true, yes. Or maybe he simply thinks it is ethically tainted to
> use closed-source to manipulate money out of people by hiding
> information.
>
> As a practical matter, one wants the source, in case the author goes
> away.

One may want the source, but one doesn't always get what one wants (Rolling
Stones, Let It Bleed, 1969).

The source is usually considered the property of the author; if he dies the
source may disappear as well, leaving users with the code they paid for and
licensed under terms agreeable to them. No harm, no foul, in any way.
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