Packaging a CGI with modules?

MJ Ray · External Since: Jun 02, 2005 Posts: 273

Perl sages,

What is the recommended way to package a CGI with its own modules?

This seems not very well-documented: not just for debian, but
generally. I'm using MakeMaker because it seems to be halfway
portable.

As well as having ITP'd koha, I am an upstream developer of it.
Upstream, I am setting WriteMakefile()'s PM to move the files into
good locations - for example, I'm currently putting the CGIs in
$(INST_LIB)/koha/cgi-bin - and I intend to mv them with debian/rules
to meet policy. Is that the best MakeMaker-definable location for
them to start in?

Also, I'm intending to use prompt() to obtain values to generate
configuration files. Is there a slick way to get debconf to supply
prompt() answers, should I rerewrite the config file from post-inst,
or something else?

Any answers to the above or any pointers to stuff I've not found would
be very appreciated.

Thanks,
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Dominic Hargreaves · External Since: Dec 07, 2004 Posts: 179

On Fri, Jul 06, 2007 at 11:27:04AM +0300, Damyan Ivanov wrote:
> -=| MJ Ray, Fri, 06 Jul 2007 08:54:52 +0100 |=-
>
> > What is the recommended way to package a CGI with its own modules?
>
> Here's how I'd do it. This is my personal experience. Other pkg-perl
> members are welcome to share theirs Smile

>
> > As well as having ITP'd koha, I am an upstream developer of it.
> > Upstream, I am setting WriteMakefile()'s PM to move the files into
> > good locations - for example, I'm currently putting the CGIs in
> > $(INST_LIB)/koha/cgi-bin - and I intend to mv them with debian/rules
> > to meet policy. Is that the best MakeMaker-definable location for
> > them to start in?
>
> Sure. koha/cgi-bin for the CGIs, koha/lib for the modules (*.pm).

Why not /usr/lib/cgi-bin, the designated place for CGI scripts?
(this is what I do for openguides).

> This way one would be able to "make INST_LIB=debian/tmp", right?
>
> If there is some way to put custom path in CGIs' @INC, the IMO correct
> place for the modules is /usr/share/koha/lib. If it is troublesome to
> get that path in @INC, then install them in /usr/share/perl5/

I'm not sure I agree with this either. They are perl modules; assuming
there's no chance they will conflict with another package containing the
same modules, why should they not live in /usr/{share,lib}/perl5, the
designated place for them? (this is what I do for openguides)

Cheers,

Dominic.

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MJ Ray · External Since: Jun 02, 2005 Posts: 273

Dominic Hargreaves <dom.TakeThisOut@earth.li> wrote: [...]
> Why not /usr/lib/cgi-bin, the designated place for CGI scripts?
> (this is what I do for openguides).

In short, how do you reference that from Makefile.PL using $(INST...)
and similar?

(Through $(INST...) and friends, MakeMaker also supports installations
in /usr/local and /home, and reduces the assistance required from me
for RPMs and Win32, so I'd really like to use it as a base.)

If it can't be done from Makefile.PL, I'm happy to move them there
with a mv in debian/rules.

> [modules] why should they not live in /usr/{share,lib}/perl5, the
> designated place for them? (this is what I do for openguides)

Yes, I'm pretty happy to put the modules in the usual perl paths AFAP.

Many thanks,
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MJ Ray · External Since: Jun 02, 2005 Posts: 273

Damyan Ivanov <dam.RemoveThis@modsoftsys.com> wrote: [...]
> This way one would be able to "make INST_LIB=debian/tmp", right?

I think you could, but make PREFIX=... or DESTDIR=... would probably
be more usual.

> If there is some way to put custom path in CGIs' @INC, the IMO correct
> place for the modules is /usr/share/koha/lib. If it is troublesome to
> get that path in @INC, then install them in /usr/share/perl5/

SetEnv in an apache VirtualHost config can be used, but the modules
are also used by some scripts the webmaster may want to use, so I'd
put them in the normal perl tree.

> > Also, I'm intending to use prompt() to obtain values to generate
> > configuration files. Is there a slick way to get debconf to supply
> > prompt() answers,
>
> I am not sure. What is prompt? At what stage of the build/install
> process are these questions asked?

prompt is described in man ExtUtils::MakeMaker "Other Handy Functions".
I don't know what stage they're asked at. I'm hoping during install.
If it's running non-interactively (debian build?) it uses defaults.

Damyan Ivanov <dam.RemoveThis@modsoftsys.com> wrote:
> [CC added to MJ. Sorry if you're subscribed] [...]

I'm subscribed. I usually remember to ask for CCs if required.

> With separate place, ScriptAlias will enable CGI support only to koha's
> scripts and nothing else. For example, imagine user wants to use a
> VirtualHost or a separate Location for koha.

I think koha stills need to have its own two VirtualHosts to work
properly. We probably should fix that, but maybe not this month.

> BTW, MJ, what is the expected value for $(INST_LIB) in the pure
> (non-Debian) installation and when used from debian/rules?

/usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8 and /usr/share/perl5 I think.

Hope that helps,

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Jeremiah Foster · External Since: Jul 19, 2006 Posts: 30

On Jul 6, 2007, at 9:54 AM, MJ Ray wrote:
>
> What is the recommended way to package a CGI with its own modules?
>
This question is something I am interested in as well, would you be
willing to share some information on your solution so that I can
write a How-to document that I can use? Mostly for myself. Smile

> This seems not very well-documented: not just for debian, but
> generally. I'm using MakeMaker because it seems to be halfway
> portable.

You may want to look into Module::Install. I have had portability
problems with it but it is new, provides an excellent interface and
installs other pms that your package needs.

Jeremiah

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Jeremiah Foster · External Since: Jul 19, 2006 Posts: 30

On Jul 6, 2007, at 3:09 PM, Damyan Ivanov wrote:

> -=| Jeremiah Foster, Fri, 6 Jul 2007 14:48:48 +0200 |=-
>>
>> On Jul 6, 2007, at 9:54 AM, MJ Ray wrote:
>>>
>>> What is the recommended way to package a CGI with its own modules?
>>>
>> This question is something I am interested in as well, would you be
>> willing to share some information on your solution so that I can
>> write a How-to document that I can use? Mostly for myself. Smile

>
> No, no. Please publish it somewhere! It even can be placed on
> pkg-perl.alioth.debian.org.
>
I am happy to publish it, but it must be looked-over by this list. I
am not a DD nor as experienced in developing for debian as people on
this list. I do some technical writing however and have even been
published so this project is something I will take seriously.

Jeremiah

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"Martín_Ferrari · External Since: Mar 28, 2006 Posts: 15

On 7/6/07, Damyan Ivanov <dam DeleteThis @modsoftsys.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 6, 2007, at 9:54 AM, MJ Ray wrote:

> > > What is the recommended way to package a CGI with its own modules?

> No, no. Please publish it somewhere! It even can be placed on
> pkg-perl.alioth.debian.org.

I have written a small blogpost some weeks ago. It was in response to
MJ Ray, but I don't know if he read it. Corrections are welcomed Smile

http://howtorecognise.mine.nu/archives/111-About-installing-a-complex-...l-web-a

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Martín Ferrari

Dominic Hargreaves · External Since: Dec 07, 2004 Posts: 179

On Fri, Jul 06, 2007 at 10:09:46AM +0100, MJ Ray wrote:
> Dominic Hargreaves <dom RemoveThis @earth.li> wrote: [...]
> > Why not /usr/lib/cgi-bin, the designated place for CGI scripts?
> > (this is what I do for openguides).
>
> In short, how do you reference that from Makefile.PL using $(INST...)
> and similar?

Ah, I can't answer that question, as the application I'm packaging uses
Module::Build and a custom build script (which is itself configurable).

> (Through $(INST...) and friends, MakeMaker also supports installations
> in /usr/local and /home, and reduces the assistance required from me
> for RPMs and Win32, so I'd really like to use it as a base.)
>
> If it can't be done from Makefile.PL, I'm happy to move them there
> with a mv in debian/rules.

This sounds like the easiest option, yes.

Dominic.

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Dominic Hargreaves · External Since: Dec 07, 2004 Posts: 179

On Fri, Jul 06, 2007 at 08:13:39PM -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote:

> Now, why /usr/share/koha? Because that way, you can also drop a config
> snippet under /etc/apache2/conf.d/koha (and/or possibly similar
> locations, if you like other webservers - or just documenting what's
> needed for that). I feel having CGIs under /usr/lib/cgi-bin is almost
> as dirty and 1995-ish as publishing them under
> http://www.my-site.org/cgi-bin/koha.pl - Just make them take
> http://www.my-site.org/koha or http://koha.my-site.com!

Policy 11.5 - tells us where CGI scripts/programs should live.

This does not mean that you have to use the application as
http://www.my-site.org/cgi-bin/koha.pl...

Dominic.

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Don Armstrong · External Since: Jan 24, 2005 Posts: 253

On Sun, 08 Jul 2007, Dominic Hargreaves wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 06, 2007 at 08:13:39PM -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
>
> > Now, why /usr/share/koha? Because that way, you can also drop a config
> > snippet under /etc/apache2/conf.d/koha (and/or possibly similar
> > locations, if you like other webservers - or just documenting what's
> > needed for that). I feel having CGIs under /usr/lib/cgi-bin is almost
> > as dirty and 1995-ish as publishing them under
> > http://www.my-site.org/cgi-bin/koha.pl - Just make them take
> > http://www.my-site.org/koha or http://koha.my-site.com!
>
> Policy 11.5 - tells us where CGI scripts/programs should live.
>
> This does not mean that you have to use the application as
> http://www.my-site.org/cgi-bin/koha.pl...

Right, but it does make it rather difficult to have a specific set of
CGI scripts served by one vhost and not by another.

This is why it's a should directive, not must, and frankly, may well
need to be revisted in the future.

Don Armstrong

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Gunnar Wolf · External Since: Nov 12, 2004 Posts: 200

Don Armstrong dijo [Sun, Jul 08, 2007 at 02:33:27AM -0700]:
> > > Now, why /usr/share/koha? Because that way, you can also drop a config
> > > snippet under /etc/apache2/conf.d/koha (and/or possibly similar
> > > locations, if you like other webservers - or just documenting what's
> > > needed for that). I feel having CGIs under /usr/lib/cgi-bin is almost
> > > as dirty and 1995-ish as publishing them under
> > > http://www.my-site.org/cgi-bin/koha.pl - Just make them take
> > > http://www.my-site.org/koha or http://koha.my-site.com!
> >
> > Policy 11.5 - tells us where CGI scripts/programs should live.
> >
> > This does not mean that you have to use the application as
> > http://www.my-site.org/cgi-bin/koha.pl...
>
> Right, but it does make it rather difficult to have a specific set of
> CGI scripts served by one vhost and not by another.
>
> This is why it's a should directive, not must, and frankly, may well
> need to be revisted in the future.

Yes... Now that you point it out, this looks like a bit of policy that
can (and should) be updated. It does not mean the URL should be like
that, but... It makes no sense to have it that way.

Specially if you start talking about webapps that are _not_ cgi-bins
anymore - Think of anything that works from an application server
perspective (i.e. Zope, Rails, Embperl and other mod_perl-based apps,
and a long etc.) - They are libraries that can have quite intrincated
directory structures. Having them in /usr/lib/cgi-bin looked like a
nice idea a long time ago, maybe... But I don't think that's the case
anymore.

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