[News] New XGL Goodness: Motion Blur

Roy Schestowitz · External Since: Jun 26, 2005 Posts: 26141

__/ [ Oliver Wong ] on Tuesday 19 September 2006 18:34 \__

>
> "[H]omer" <spam.RemoveThis@uce.gov> wrote in message news:a5ivt3-659.ln1@sky.matrix...
>> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>>> __/ [ Gubo Dangle ] on Saturday 16 September 2006 20:57 \__
>>>> It happens that Roy Schestowitz formulated :
>>
>>>>> Xgl / Compiz Motion Blur
>>>>>
>>>>> ,----[ Quote ]
>>>>> | Demo of motion blur on a bleeding edge build, completely
>>>>> | unedited.
>>>>> `----
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-Ln4xQhILs
>>>>>
>>>>> And that's a _low-quality_ video...
>>
>>>> And there's a point to this feature?
>>
>> I would have thought it obvious, since Gooey enhancements is pretty
>> much Vista's *only* selling point,
>
> False premise, so your conclusion is flawed.
>
> [...]
>>> http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~af380/MyDeskTop-Jun-22-2005.gif
>>
>> That's a more honest perspective of what you're actually getting in
>> terms of functionality, when you buy into Microsoft's
>> indoctrination.
>
> More honest than what?
>
>> That's the picture people see when they remove their
>> rose-tinted glasses.
>
> I disagree, but of course this is unverifiable either way.
>
> [...]
>>
>> I find it amusing that any Windows advocate can criticise the
>> development of visual enhancements in an OS, when the only thing
>> generating *any* interest in the forthcoming update to Windows, is
>> eye-candy.
>
> I wish you would not make factually false statement like these.

Oliver is right. Vista boasts links to online services, it has genuine
'advantage', and even digital rights management. I have seen Vista's list of
features (the infamous featureset) several times before. We have discussed
the _one. By. One._ in COLA. Everything that had some essence and value was
dropped. All that remains are a bunch of fancy names (yes, marketing is a
strength) with nothing underneath.

Just face the fact that Vista is vapourware. Microsoft engineers and managers
know it, so they gradually leave. It's Windows XP SP2 (or Windows Server
2003, its sibling) with some new artwork, including a login screen and mild
changes to the UI (some of which are deceiving and they detract). And
hardware support, as well as the prevalence of bugs (never mind that fact
that they dare call it a "_release_ _candidate_") makes it potentially worse
than XP, requirements aside. I know very well why I ditched the 'Windows
series' some time after Windows 98. That's just where they peaked. Or maybe
it was 95. I could have stayed, but I chose to move on and learn something
new that had prospects, a vision, and a maintainable codebase. Windows
development is somewhat like the poor handling of nuclear waste. It's all
about power, power, power (hog) and deadline, deadline, deadline. Eventually
you end up with a mess whose organisation was forever procrastinated. And
this in itself leads to waste. Waste of hardware that can no longer be
handled by the resource pig (XP) and resource gorilla (Vista); and waste of
bandwidth (SPAM, DDOS attacks, AV software, et cetera).

Many advocated in COLA are degraded to the level of sounding like parrots,
but it's amazing how many things Windows sticklers simply refuse to accept.
They think with their heart so to speak, rather than observe simple facts.

Best wishes,

Roy

--
Roy S. Schestowitz | Windows XP: Dude, where's my RAM?
http://Schestowitz.com | GNU is Not UNIX | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
roy pts/5 Tue Sep 19 04:29 - 04:29 (00:00)
http://iuron.com - proposing a non-profit search engine

DFS · External Since: Jun 07, 2005 Posts: 3577

Roy Schestowitz wrote:

> I have seen Vista's
> list of features (the infamous featureset) several times before. We
> have discussed the _one. By. One._ in COLA. Everything that had some
> essence and value was dropped. All that remains are a bunch of fancy
> names (yes, marketing is a strength) with nothing underneath.

You're a childish liar.

[H]omer · External Since: Apr 21, 2006 Posts: 2134

Oliver Wong wrote:
> "[H]omer" <spam RemoveThis @uce.gov> wrote in message news:a5ivt3-659.ln1@sky.matrix...

>> I find it amusing that any Windows advocate can criticise the
>> development of visual enhancements in an OS, when the only thing
>> generating *any* interest in the forthcoming update to Windows, is
>> eye-candy.
>
> I wish you would not make factually false statement like these.

Stop the average man on the street and ask him what interests *him* in
the forthcoming release of Vista. Is he going to say "The NUMA
architecture"? How about "Support of UNIX-style symbolic links", or
"Windows Workflow Foundation"? I doubt if he'd even know what you were
talking about, let alone be "interested". And you could probably extend
that from "average man" to IT management, and hell, even engineers. Who
exactly outside of Geekdom knows FA about the technical intricacies of
OS development?

And yes, I've read (what's left of) the full feature list.

AFAICT the changes fall into one of the following categories:

. Eye-candy
. Things that should have been fixed in XP
. Marketing gobbledygook for new workflow methods
. Version bumps
. Ideas stolen from Apple
. Ideas stolen from Linux
. Even harsher DRM "protection"
. Substandard implementations of things already better implemented by
third-party developers, for the sake of being able to use the word
"integrated".

So tell me this, what exactly is it about Vista that has *you* creaming
your jeans?

It's not like we haven't all been through this before. The transition
from 98 to XP just left me slamming the desk, cursing at not being able
to play any of my old games. To this day, I still cannot play "Blood 2:
The Chosen"; one of my favourites, unless I dual boot into 98.

I have a voice messaging modem from Pace (old but excellent ... and
without equal) that serves as my FAX and answering service, but if I
need to access the advanced functions then I need 98 to do it, since
apparently the COM API changed with the new XP HAL, and the old
abandonware software from Pace won't work under XP.

The list goes on; the DVD playback that worked flawlessly under 98, no
longer worked under XP, since apparently nVidia and Macrovision
conspired to *disable* that function of that graphics card for
*political* reasons:

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=8425

Of course, I have upgraded that graphics card since then ... and I
upgraded the OS at the same time ... from XP to Linux.

Now as much as I'd love to completely replace my entire software
collection, and throw away thousands of pounds/dollars worth of
hardware, every time Microsoft snaps their fingers; if you don't mind
I'll just stick with Linux, that works on hardware old and new ...
without restriction.

So you'll forgive me if I seem rather less than enthusiastic about the
latest hype. Despite the marketing-speak, Vista is going to be exactly
what XP was, one step forward and two steps back.

I *will* save a snapshot of my shiny new Vista (Beta) desktop for
posterity, however. I'll print it out, frame it, and hang it on the
wall, with a sign underneath that reads "Windows XP SP3: Eye-Candy Edition".

--
K.
http://slated.org - Slated, Rated & Blogged
Beware the Penguin:
http://www.victorialodging.com/video/Never_Trust_A_Penguin.mpg

Fedora Core release 5 (Bordeaux) on sky, running kernel 2.6.16-1.2133_FC5
08:03:03 up 95 days, 8:19, 3 users, load average: 0.50, 0.42, 0.39

Hadron Quark · External Since: Sep 10, 2006 Posts: 1621

"[H]omer" <spam RemoveThis @uce.gov> writes:

> Oliver Wong wrote:
>> "[H]omer" <spam RemoveThis @uce.gov> wrote in message news:a5ivt3-659.ln1@sky.matrix...
>
>>> I find it amusing that any Windows advocate can criticise the
>>> development of visual enhancements in an OS, when the only thing
>>> generating *any* interest in the forthcoming update to Windows, is
>>> eye-candy.
>>
>> I wish you would not make factually false statement like these.
>
> Stop the average man on the street and ask him what interests *him* in
> the forthcoming release of Vista. Is he going to say "The NUMA
> architecture"? How about "Support of UNIX-style symbolic links", or
> "Windows Workflow Foundation"? I doubt if he'd even know what you were
> talking about, let alone be "interested". And you could probably extend
> that from "average man" to IT management, and hell, even engineers. Who
> exactly outside of Geekdom knows FA about the technical intricacies of
> OS development?
>
> And yes, I've read (what's left of) the full feature list.
>
> AFAICT the changes fall into one of the following categories:
>
> . Eye-candy
> . Things that should have been fixed in XP
> . Marketing gobbledygook for new workflow methods
> . Version bumps
> . Ideas stolen from Apple
> . Ideas stolen from Linux
> . Even harsher DRM "protection"
> . Substandard implementations of things already better implemented by
> third-party developers, for the sake of being able to use the word
> "integrated".
>
> So tell me this, what exactly is it about Vista that has *you* creaming
> your jeans?

LOL. The irony.

And about the only thing which differs the 400 odd Linux distros is a different way
of painting a title bar or a different way of installing packages.

--
A word to the wise: a credentials dicksize war is usually a bad idea
on the net.
-- David Parsons in c.o.l.development.system, about coding in C

Jamie Hart · External Since: Sep 12, 2005 Posts: 602

Hadron Quark wrote:
> "[H]omer" <spam.RemoveThis@uce.gov> writes:
>
>> Oliver Wong wrote:
>>> "[H]omer" <spam.RemoveThis@uce.gov> wrote in message news:a5ivt3-659.ln1@sky.matrix...
>>>> I find it amusing that any Windows advocate can criticise the
>>>> development of visual enhancements in an OS, when the only thing
>>>> generating *any* interest in the forthcoming update to Windows, is
>>>> eye-candy.
>>> I wish you would not make factually false statement like these.
>> Stop the average man on the street and ask him what interests *him* in
>> the forthcoming release of Vista. Is he going to say "The NUMA
>> architecture"? How about "Support of UNIX-style symbolic links", or
>> "Windows Workflow Foundation"? I doubt if he'd even know what you were
>> talking about, let alone be "interested". And you could probably extend
>> that from "average man" to IT management, and hell, even engineers. Who
>> exactly outside of Geekdom knows FA about the technical intricacies of
>> OS development?
>>
>> And yes, I've read (what's left of) the full feature list.
>>
>> AFAICT the changes fall into one of the following categories:
>>
>> . Eye-candy
>> . Things that should have been fixed in XP
>> . Marketing gobbledygook for new workflow methods
>> . Version bumps
>> . Ideas stolen from Apple
>> . Ideas stolen from Linux
>> . Even harsher DRM "protection"
>> . Substandard implementations of things already better implemented by
>> third-party developers, for the sake of being able to use the word
>> "integrated".
>>
>> So tell me this, what exactly is it about Vista that has *you* creaming
>> your jeans?
>
>
> LOL. The irony.
>
> And about the only thing which differs the 400 odd Linux distros is a different way
> of painting a title bar or a different way of installing packages.
>
The only difference between KnoppMyth and Smoothwall are different ways
of painting a title bar and installing software? Really?

How about the differences between Mitel SME Server and GeexBox, is that
the same?

Do you really enjoy looking clueless?

JEDIDIAH · External Since: Sep 24, 2004 Posts: 1070

On 2006-09-21, Hadron Quark <qadronhuark DeleteThis @geemail.com> wrote:
> "[H]omer" <spam DeleteThis @uce.gov> writes:
>
>> Oliver Wong wrote:
[deletia]
>> AFAICT the changes fall into one of the following categories:
>>
>> . Eye-candy
>> . Things that should have been fixed in XP
>> . Marketing gobbledygook for new workflow methods
>> . Version bumps
>> . Ideas stolen from Apple
>> . Ideas stolen from Linux
>> . Even harsher DRM "protection"
>> . Substandard implementations of things already better implemented by
>> third-party developers, for the sake of being able to use the word
>> "integrated".
>>
>> So tell me this, what exactly is it about Vista that has *you* creaming
>> your jeans?
>
>
> LOL. The irony.
>
> And about the only thing which differs the 400 odd Linux distros is a different way
> of painting a title bar or a different way of installing packages.

Then the existence of that "excessive number of distros" should
pose no real problem then and your usual rant on this topic is assinine.

--
Oracle... can't live with it... |||
/ | \
can't just replace it with postgres...

The Ghost In The Machine · External Since: Aug 04, 2005 Posts: 3878

In comp.os.linux.advocacy, [H]omer
<spam.RemoveThis@uce.gov>
wrote
on Thu, 21 Sep 2006 08:04:30 +0100
<v4q9u3-s93.ln1.RemoveThis@sky.matrix>:
> Oliver Wong wrote:
>> "[H]omer" <spam.RemoveThis@uce.gov> wrote in message news:a5ivt3-659.ln1@sky.matrix...
>
>>> I find it amusing that any Windows advocate can criticise the
>>> development of visual enhancements in an OS, when the only thing
>>> generating *any* interest in the forthcoming update to Windows, is
>>> eye-candy.
>>
>> I wish you would not make factually false statement like these.
>
> Stop the average man on the street and ask him what interests *him* in
> the forthcoming release of Vista. Is he going to say "The NUMA
> architecture"? How about "Support of UNIX-style symbolic links", or
> "Windows Workflow Foundation"? I doubt if he'd even know what you were
> talking about, let alone be "interested". And you could probably extend
> that from "average man" to IT management, and hell, even engineers. Who
> exactly outside of Geekdom knows FA about the technical intricacies of
> OS development?

No doubt the most attractive feature to Joe-On-The-Street
of Vista will be the security enhancements.

Pity Linux is far more inherently secure. Smile

But there
are tradeoffs, although Linux is getting more powerful
all the time.

>
> And yes, I've read (what's left of) the full feature list.
>
> AFAICT the changes fall into one of the following categories:
>
> . Eye-candy
> . Things that should have been fixed in XP
> . Marketing gobbledygook for new workflow methods
> . Version bumps
> . Ideas stolen from Apple
> . Ideas stolen from Linux
> . Even harsher DRM "protection"
> . Substandard implementations of things already better implemented by
> third-party developers, for the sake of being able to use the word
> "integrated".

I'm beginning to dislike that word. Linux is very seamy,
and not in a bad way; the boundaries are well-defined,
standard, and generally easily implemented, at least to
a first approximation.

Of course "seamy" has bad connotations of its own; perhaps
a better way of phrasing it is that Linux allows a lot of
small specialized code to interconnect using well-defined,
standard communications protocols.

Windows also has this capability, although the protocols
aren't quite as standard -- a lot of it is done through
COM, and will probably continue to be for awhile because
of backwards compatibility.

>
> So tell me this, what exactly is it about Vista that has *you* creaming
> your jeans?
>
> It's not like we haven't all been through this before. The transition
> from 98 to XP just left me slamming the desk, cursing at not being able
> to play any of my old games. To this day, I still cannot play "Blood 2:
> The Chosen"; one of my favourites, unless I dual boot into 98.

Dumb question: can WinE handle it? Or is this a VxD problem?

I've got a couple of games of my own that I probably need
to look at. Smile

Wheel of Time has its moments, and the
graphics in Starship Titanic are rather nice, although
the game itself is relatively static (it's basically a
puzzle game with ray-traced everything in a luxury space
cruise liner, five robots (six if one counts the ship AI),
a daft bomb, and a goofy parrot.)

>
> I have a voice messaging modem from Pace (old but excellent ... and
> without equal) that serves as my FAX and answering service, but if I
> need to access the advanced functions then I need 98 to do it, since
> apparently the COM API changed with the new XP HAL, and the old
> abandonware software from Pace won't work under XP.

It might be interesting to try something with a Linmodem in that area.

>
> The list goes on; the DVD playback that worked flawlessly under 98, no
> longer worked under XP, since apparently nVidia and Macrovision
> conspired to *disable* that function of that graphics card for
> *political* reasons:
>
> http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=8425

Well of course. Can't be too careful with al Qaeda running around
pirating all of that material, now, can we? It might lead to dancing.

>
> Of course, I have upgraded that graphics card since then ... and I
> upgraded the OS at the same time ... from XP to Linux.
>
> Now as much as I'd love to completely replace my entire software
> collection, and throw away thousands of pounds/dollars worth of
> hardware, every time Microsoft snaps their fingers; if you don't mind
> I'll just stick with Linux, that works on hardware old and new ...
> without restriction.
>
> So you'll forgive me if I seem rather less than enthusiastic about the
> latest hype. Despite the marketing-speak, Vista is going to be exactly
> what XP was, one step forward and two steps back.

And three steps "shuffle and dance", probably with a tophat and cane.

>
> I *will* save a snapshot of my shiny new Vista (Beta) desktop for
> posterity, however. I'll print it out, frame it, and hang it on the
> wall, with a sign underneath that reads "Windows XP SP3:
> Eye-Candy Edition".
>

Heh.

--
#191, ewill3.RemoveThis@earthlink.net
Windows Vista. Because it's time to refresh your hardware. Trust us.

Hadron Quark · External Since: Sep 10, 2006 Posts: 1621

Jamie Hart <usenet DeleteThis @jhart.ath.cx> writes:

> Hadron Quark wrote:
>> "[H]omer" <spam DeleteThis @uce.gov> writes:
>>
>>> Oliver Wong wrote:
>>>> "[H]omer" <spam DeleteThis @uce.gov> wrote in message news:a5ivt3-659.ln1@sky.matrix...
>>>>> I find it amusing that any Windows advocate can criticise the
>>>>> development of visual enhancements in an OS, when the only thing
>>>>> generating *any* interest in the forthcoming update to Windows, is
>>>>> eye-candy.
>>>> I wish you would not make factually false statement like these.
>>> Stop the average man on the street and ask him what interests *him* in
>>> the forthcoming release of Vista. Is he going to say "The NUMA
>>> architecture"? How about "Support of UNIX-style symbolic links", or
>>> "Windows Workflow Foundation"? I doubt if he'd even know what you were
>>> talking about, let alone be "interested". And you could probably extend
>>> that from "average man" to IT management, and hell, even engineers. Who
>>> exactly outside of Geekdom knows FA about the technical intricacies of
>>> OS development?
>>>
>>> And yes, I've read (what's left of) the full feature list.
>>>
>>> AFAICT the changes fall into one of the following categories:
>>>
>>> . Eye-candy
>>> . Things that should have been fixed in XP
>>> . Marketing gobbledygook for new workflow methods
>>> . Version bumps
>>> . Ideas stolen from Apple
>>> . Ideas stolen from Linux
>>> . Even harsher DRM "protection"
>>> . Substandard implementations of things already better implemented by
>>> third-party developers, for the sake of being able to use the word
>>> "integrated".
>>>
>>> So tell me this, what exactly is it about Vista that has *you* creaming
>>> your jeans?
>> LOL. The irony.
>> And about the only thing which differs the 400 odd Linux distros is
>> a different way
>> of painting a title bar or a different way of installing packages.
>>
> The only difference between KnoppMyth and Smoothwall are different
> ways of painting a title bar and installing software? Really?
>
> How about the differences between Mitel SME Server and GeexBox, is
> that the same?
>
> Do you really enjoy looking clueless?

Do you enjoy looking like a fan boy?

There are always some exceptions to the rule.

The same SW is available via packages for virtually all the distros.

--
All celebrity voices impersonated.

Jamie Hart · External Since: Sep 12, 2005 Posts: 602

Hadron Quark wrote:
> Jamie Hart <usenet DeleteThis @jhart.ath.cx> writes:
>
>> Hadron Quark wrote:
>>> "[H]omer" <spam DeleteThis @uce.gov> writes:
>>>
>>>> Oliver Wong wrote:
>>>>> "[H]omer" <spam DeleteThis @uce.gov> wrote in message news:a5ivt3-659.ln1@sky.matrix...
>>>>>> I find it amusing that any Windows advocate can criticise the
>>>>>> development of visual enhancements in an OS, when the only thing
>>>>>> generating *any* interest in the forthcoming update to Windows, is
>>>>>> eye-candy.
>>>>> I wish you would not make factually false statement like these.
>>>> Stop the average man on the street and ask him what interests *him* in
>>>> the forthcoming release of Vista. Is he going to say "The NUMA
>>>> architecture"? How about "Support of UNIX-style symbolic links", or
>>>> "Windows Workflow Foundation"? I doubt if he'd even know what you were
>>>> talking about, let alone be "interested". And you could probably extend
>>>> that from "average man" to IT management, and hell, even engineers. Who
>>>> exactly outside of Geekdom knows FA about the technical intricacies of
>>>> OS development?
>>>>
>>>> And yes, I've read (what's left of) the full feature list.
>>>>
>>>> AFAICT the changes fall into one of the following categories:
>>>>
>>>> . Eye-candy
>>>> . Things that should have been fixed in XP
>>>> . Marketing gobbledygook for new workflow methods
>>>> . Version bumps
>>>> . Ideas stolen from Apple
>>>> . Ideas stolen from Linux
>>>> . Even harsher DRM "protection"
>>>> . Substandard implementations of things already better implemented by
>>>> third-party developers, for the sake of being able to use the word
>>>> "integrated".
>>>>
>>>> So tell me this, what exactly is it about Vista that has *you* creaming
>>>> your jeans?
>>> LOL. The irony.
>>> And about the only thing which differs the 400 odd Linux distros is
>>> a different way
>>> of painting a title bar or a different way of installing packages.
>>>
>> The only difference between KnoppMyth and Smoothwall are different
>> ways of painting a title bar and installing software? Really?
>>
>> How about the differences between Mitel SME Server and GeexBox, is
>> that the same?
>>
>> Do you really enjoy looking clueless?
>
> Do you enjoy looking like a fan boy?
>
Better than being a clueless troll. And don't call me boy.

> There are always some exceptions to the rule.
>
Do you want me to point out a few more exceptions? There are plenty. Of
course, since your pronouncement was pure bullshit, you've got to expect
a lot of distros that prove you wrong.

> The same SW is available via packages for virtually all the distros.
>
You're looking clueless again.

You can add nearly any software to any distro, but not via packages.
Hell, you can't even add Red Hat packages to a Mandriva install and they
both use RPMs.

I'll let you in on a secret, different distros put things in different
locations. Oh dear, that proves your "title bar & package installer"
bullshit wrong.

Still, you're a troll. You'll use the same bullshit again, even though
it's been proved wrong.

JEDIDIAH · External Since: Sep 24, 2004 Posts: 1070

On 2006-09-21, Hadron Quark <qadronhuark DeleteThis @geemail.com> wrote:
> Jamie Hart <usenet DeleteThis @jhart.ath.cx> writes:
>
>> Hadron Quark wrote:
>>> "[H]omer" <spam DeleteThis @uce.gov> writes:
>>>
>>>> Oliver Wong wrote:
>>>>> "[H]omer" <spam DeleteThis @uce.gov> wrote in message news:a5ivt3-659.ln1@sky.matrix...
>>>>>> I find it amusing that any Windows advocate can criticise the
>>>>>> development of visual enhancements in an OS, when the only thing
>>>>>> generating *any* interest in the forthcoming update to Windows, is
>>>>>> eye-candy.
>>>>> I wish you would not make factually false statement like these.
>>>> Stop the average man on the street and ask him what interests *him* in
>>>> the forthcoming release of Vista. Is he going to say "The NUMA
>>>> architecture"? How about "Support of UNIX-style symbolic links", or
>>>> "Windows Workflow Foundation"? I doubt if he'd even know what you were
>>>> talking about, let alone be "interested". And you could probably extend
>>>> that from "average man" to IT management, and hell, even engineers. Who
>>>> exactly outside of Geekdom knows FA about the technical intricacies of
>>>> OS development?
>>>>
>>>> And yes, I've read (what's left of) the full feature list.
>>>>
>>>> AFAICT the changes fall into one of the following categories:
>>>>
>>>> . Eye-candy
>>>> . Things that should have been fixed in XP
>>>> . Marketing gobbledygook for new workflow methods
>>>> . Version bumps
>>>> . Ideas stolen from Apple
>>>> . Ideas stolen from Linux
>>>> . Even harsher DRM "protection"
>>>> . Substandard implementations of things already better implemented by
>>>> third-party developers, for the sake of being able to use the word
>>>> "integrated".
>>>>
>>>> So tell me this, what exactly is it about Vista that has *you* creaming
>>>> your jeans?
>>> LOL. The irony.
>>> And about the only thing which differs the 400 odd Linux distros is
>>> a different way
>>> of painting a title bar or a different way of installing packages.
>>>
>> The only difference between KnoppMyth and Smoothwall are different
>> ways of painting a title bar and installing software? Really?
>>
>> How about the differences between Mitel SME Server and GeexBox, is
>> that the same?
>>
>> Do you really enjoy looking clueless?
>
> Do you enjoy looking like a fan boy?

If it takes "being a fan" in order to have something resembling
a clue then so be it.

There have been distro forks in the past over software selection
choices, different package management philosophies, different release
and testing policies, targeted vertical applications & different expected
usage.

>
> There are always some exceptions to the rule.

Any distro YOU can name is an exception to that rule.

Slackware vs. Redhat.
Redhat vs. Debian.
Redhat vs. Mandrake.
Debian vs. Ubuntu
Redhat vs. Suse
Linspire vs. everyone else

>
> The same SW is available via packages for virtually all the distros.
>
>

--

The average IT manager is a less effective mentor than a
Spongebob Squarepants cartoon.

Hadron Quark · External Since: Sep 10, 2006 Posts: 1621

Jamie Hart <usenet.DeleteThis@jhart.ath.cx> writes:

> Hadron Quark wrote:
>> Jamie Hart <usenet.DeleteThis@jhart.ath.cx> writes:
>>
>>> Hadron Quark wrote:
>>>> "[H]omer" <spam.DeleteThis@uce.gov> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Oliver Wong wrote:
>>>>>> "[H]omer" <spam.DeleteThis@uce.gov> wrote in message news:a5ivt3-659.ln1@sky.matrix...
>>>>>>> I find it amusing that any Windows advocate can criticise the
>>>>>>> development of visual enhancements in an OS, when the only thing
>>>>>>> generating *any* interest in the forthcoming update to Windows, is
>>>>>>> eye-candy.
>>>>>> I wish you would not make factually false statement like these.
>>>>> Stop the average man on the street and ask him what interests *him* in
>>>>> the forthcoming release of Vista. Is he going to say "The NUMA
>>>>> architecture"? How about "Support of UNIX-style symbolic links", or
>>>>> "Windows Workflow Foundation"? I doubt if he'd even know what you were
>>>>> talking about, let alone be "interested". And you could probably extend
>>>>> that from "average man" to IT management, and hell, even engineers. Who
>>>>> exactly outside of Geekdom knows FA about the technical intricacies of
>>>>> OS development?
>>>>>
>>>>> And yes, I've read (what's left of) the full feature list.
>>>>>
>>>>> AFAICT the changes fall into one of the following categories:
>>>>>
>>>>> . Eye-candy
>>>>> . Things that should have been fixed in XP
>>>>> . Marketing gobbledygook for new workflow methods
>>>>> . Version bumps
>>>>> . Ideas stolen from Apple
>>>>> . Ideas stolen from Linux
>>>>> . Even harsher DRM "protection"
>>>>> . Substandard implementations of things already better implemented by
>>>>> third-party developers, for the sake of being able to use the word
>>>>> "integrated".
>>>>>
>>>>> So tell me this, what exactly is it about Vista that has *you* creaming
>>>>> your jeans?
>>>> LOL. The irony.
>>>> And about the only thing which differs the 400 odd Linux distros is
>>>> a different way
>>>> of painting a title bar or a different way of installing packages.
>>>>
>>> The only difference between KnoppMyth and Smoothwall are different
>>> ways of painting a title bar and installing software? Really?
>>>
>>> How about the differences between Mitel SME Server and GeexBox, is
>>> that the same?
>>>
>>> Do you really enjoy looking clueless?
>> Do you enjoy looking like a fan boy?
>>
> Better than being a clueless troll. And don't call me boy.

Heh, good one :-;
>

>> There are always some exceptions to the rule.
>>
> Do you want me to point out a few more exceptions? There are plenty.
> Of course, since your pronouncement was pure bullshit, you've got to
> expect a lot of distros that prove you wrong.
>
>> The same SW is available via packages for virtually all the distros.
>>
> You're looking clueless again.
>
> You can add nearly any software to any distro, but not via
> packages. Hell, you can't even add Red Hat packages to a Mandriva
> install and they both use RPMs.

Packages == generic term.

And as for not being able to add Red Hat packages to X, Y or Z : well,
there's a big surprise - not. Another piece of support for my anti 400
distro stance. I appreciate you giving me a dig out here - I thought you
were a mindless Linux zealot who refused to recognise the poorer things
in Linux. I was wrong and I apologise ....

>
> I'll let you in on a secret, different distros put things in different
> locations. Oh dear, that proves your "title bar & package installer"
> bullshit wrong.

You are joking? I know they do : which is why I constantly argue
against them.

As for how that proves me wrong, I have no idea. Since I did say the
installer was different. You need to stop shooting yourself in the foot.

>
> Still, you're a troll. You'll use the same bullshit again, even though
> it's been proved wrong.

You've "proven" nothing. You have chosen to close your mind and pick up
a specific definition of "package" - whereas anyone with half a clue
would know exactly what was meant.

--
What's this script do?
unzip ; touch ; finger ; mount ; gasp ; yes ; umount ; sleep
Hint for the answer: not everything is computer-oriented. Sometimes you're
in a sleeping bag, camping out with your girlfriend.
-- Contributed by Frans van der Zande

Hadron Quark · External Since: Sep 10, 2006 Posts: 1621

JEDIDIAH <jedi.TakeThisOut@nomad.mishnet> writes:

> On 2006-09-21, Hadron Quark <qadronhuark.TakeThisOut@geemail.com> wrote:
>> "[H]omer" <spam.TakeThisOut@uce.gov> writes:
>>
>>> Oliver Wong wrote:
> [deletia]
>>> AFAICT the changes fall into one of the following categories:
>>>
>>> . Eye-candy
>>> . Things that should have been fixed in XP
>>> . Marketing gobbledygook for new workflow methods
>>> . Version bumps
>>> . Ideas stolen from Apple
>>> . Ideas stolen from Linux
>>> . Even harsher DRM "protection"
>>> . Substandard implementations of things already better implemented by
>>> third-party developers, for the sake of being able to use the word
>>> "integrated".
>>>
>>> So tell me this, what exactly is it about Vista that has *you* creaming
>>> your jeans?
>>
>>
>> LOL. The irony.
>>
>> And about the only thing which differs the 400 odd Linux distros is a different way
>> of painting a title bar or a different way of installing packages.
>
> Then the existence of that "excessive number of distros" should
> pose no real problem then and your usual rant on this topic is
> assinine.

Err, sorry? Another reader totally unable to put two & two together when
it reflects badly on Linux.

The *main* problem with the distros in that things are installed
differently. Meaning howtos are almost worthless between certain distros.

--
We come to bury DOS, not to praise it.
(Paul Vojta, vojta.TakeThisOut@math.berkeley.edu, paraphrasing a quote of Shakespeare)

Hadron Quark · External Since: Sep 10, 2006 Posts: 1621

JEDIDIAH <jedi.TakeThisOut@nomad.mishnet> writes:

> On 2006-09-21, Hadron Quark <qadronhuark.TakeThisOut@geemail.com> wrote:
>> Jamie Hart <usenet.TakeThisOut@jhart.ath.cx> writes:
>>
>>> Hadron Quark wrote:
>>>> "[H]omer" <spam.TakeThisOut@uce.gov> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Oliver Wong wrote:
>>>>>> "[H]omer" <spam.TakeThisOut@uce.gov> wrote in message news:a5ivt3-659.ln1@sky.matrix...
>>>>>>> I find it amusing that any Windows advocate can criticise the
>>>>>>> development of visual enhancements in an OS, when the only thing
>>>>>>> generating *any* interest in the forthcoming update to Windows, is
>>>>>>> eye-candy.
>>>>>> I wish you would not make factually false statement like these.
>>>>> Stop the average man on the street and ask him what interests *him* in
>>>>> the forthcoming release of Vista. Is he going to say "The NUMA
>>>>> architecture"? How about "Support of UNIX-style symbolic links", or
>>>>> "Windows Workflow Foundation"? I doubt if he'd even know what you were
>>>>> talking about, let alone be "interested". And you could probably extend
>>>>> that from "average man" to IT management, and hell, even engineers. Who
>>>>> exactly outside of Geekdom knows FA about the technical intricacies of
>>>>> OS development?
>>>>>
>>>>> And yes, I've read (what's left of) the full feature list.
>>>>>
>>>>> AFAICT the changes fall into one of the following categories:
>>>>>
>>>>> . Eye-candy
>>>>> . Things that should have been fixed in XP
>>>>> . Marketing gobbledygook for new workflow methods
>>>>> . Version bumps
>>>>> . Ideas stolen from Apple
>>>>> . Ideas stolen from Linux
>>>>> . Even harsher DRM "protection"
>>>>> . Substandard implementations of things already better implemented by
>>>>> third-party developers, for the sake of being able to use the word
>>>>> "integrated".
>>>>>
>>>>> So tell me this, what exactly is it about Vista that has *you* creaming
>>>>> your jeans?
>>>> LOL. The irony.
>>>> And about the only thing which differs the 400 odd Linux distros is
>>>> a different way
>>>> of painting a title bar or a different way of installing packages.
>>>>
>>> The only difference between KnoppMyth and Smoothwall are different
>>> ways of painting a title bar and installing software? Really?
>>>
>>> How about the differences between Mitel SME Server and GeexBox, is
>>> that the same?
>>>
>>> Do you really enjoy looking clueless?
>>
>> Do you enjoy looking like a fan boy?
>
> If it takes "being a fan" in order to have something resembling
> a clue then so be it.
>
> There have been distro forks in the past over software selection
> choices, different package management philosophies, different release
> and testing policies, targeted vertical applications & different expected
> usage.
>
>>
>> There are always some exceptions to the rule.
>
> Any distro YOU can name is an exception to that rule.
>
> Slackware vs. Redhat.
> Redhat vs. Debian.
> Redhat vs. Mandrake.
> Debian vs. Ubuntu
> Redhat vs. Suse
> Linspire vs. everyone else

You reinforce my objections : not dispel them.

>
>>
>> The same SW is available via packages for virtually all the distros.
>>
>>

--
We come to bury DOS, not to praise it.
(Paul Vojta, vojta.TakeThisOut@math.berkeley.edu, paraphrasing a quote of Shakespeare)

Erik Funkenbusch · External Since: May 27, 2005 Posts: 2403

On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 08:04:30 +0100, [H]omer wrote:

> And yes, I've read (what's left of) the full feature list.
>
> AFAICT the changes fall into one of the following categories:
>
> . Eye-candy

Ok. Not like Recent Linux distro's haven't been doing a lot of that too.

> . Things that should have been fixed in XP

If you're referring to security, well, that's an on-going process. That's
like saying that Ubuntu 6.06 is what 1.0 should have been.

> . Marketing gobbledygook for new workflow methods

It's not marketing gobbledygook. As a developer, The workflow features are
a godsend for many kinds of apps. This is one of those "under the covers"
things that you can't "see", but you will definately benefit from.

> . Version bumps

And what does that mean? Oh yeah, tons of stuff, like IIS have been almost
totally rewritten and improved. Look at the new stuff in II7 for instance:

http://www.iis.net/default.aspx?tabid=7

> . Ideas stolen from Apple

Very few. Most of the things Apple fans like to claim Microsoft stole were
actually Ideas that Microsoft showed first, and apple got out the door in
the last 5 years that Vista has been being developed.

> . Ideas stolen from Linux

Not like Linux hasn't done it's share of stealing.

> . Even harsher DRM "protection"

In conjunction with new features like HD-DVD decoding.

> . Substandard implementations of things already better implemented by
> third-party developers, for the sake of being able to use the word
> "integrated".

uhh.. yeah... whatever.

> So tell me this, what exactly is it about Vista that has *you* creaming
> your jeans?

You seem to get way too excited about Operating Systems.

Stuff that's new and is at least somewhat exciting:

Speech Recognition
Windows Meeting Space (a collaboration tool where users can share common
areas)
Native IPv6
Transactional NTFS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transactional_NTFS)
BitLocker Drive Encryption
Address Space Layout Randomization
Services for Unix

A lot of this is very technical stuff, and there's a lot of stuff for less
technical users, like DVD Maker, Photo Gallery, etc...

> It's not like we haven't all been through this before. The transition
> from 98 to XP just left me slamming the desk, cursing at not being able
> to play any of my old games. To this day, I still cannot play "Blood 2:
> The Chosen"; one of my favourites, unless I dual boot into 98.

Have you looked at this? It says blood, but don't know if it works for
blood2 or not.

http://buildxp.deathmask.net/

> I have a voice messaging modem from Pace (old but excellent ... and
> without equal) that serves as my FAX and answering service, but if I
> need to access the advanced functions then I need 98 to do it, since
> apparently the COM API changed with the new XP HAL, and the old
> abandonware software from Pace won't work under XP.

Or, you could use newer software. There's a bunch of it. As long as your
modem follows ITU standards, it should work.

> Now as much as I'd love to completely replace my entire software
> collection, and throw away thousands of pounds/dollars worth of
> hardware, every time Microsoft snaps their fingers; if you don't mind
> I'll just stick with Linux, that works on hardware old and new ...
> without restriction.

Yes, it's such a shame that you might have to get new hardware once every
10 years. That's such a moments notice.

Oliver Wong · External Since: Apr 27, 2006 Posts: 1398

Sorry for the late reply. I've been cutting down my time in COLA, and am
now dealing with the backlog. =)

"[H]omer" <spam RemoveThis @uce.gov> wrote in message news:v4q9u3-s93.ln1@sky.matrix...
> Oliver Wong wrote:
>> "[H]omer" <spam RemoveThis @uce.gov> wrote in message
>> news:a5ivt3-659.ln1@sky.matrix...
>
>>> I find it amusing that any Windows advocate can criticise the
>>> development of visual enhancements in an OS, when the only thing
>>> generating *any* interest in the forthcoming update to Windows, is
>>> eye-candy.
>>
>> I wish you would not make factually false statement like these.
>
> Stop the average man on the street and ask him what interests *him* in
> the forthcoming release of Vista. Is he going to say "The NUMA
> architecture"? How about "Support of UNIX-style symbolic links", or
> "Windows Workflow Foundation"? I doubt if he'd even know what you were
> talking about, let alone be "interested". And you could probably extend
> that from "average man" to IT management, and hell, even engineers. Who
> exactly outside of Geekdom knows FA about the technical intricacies of
> OS development?

I suspect that if you stop the average person on the street and ask them
what interests them in Vista, they'll reply "What's Vista?" And when you
tell them it's the next version of Windows, they'll probably say "Oh... I
dunno."

That said, if there exists one person interested in one feature other
than eye candy, then the statement "the only thing generating *any* interest
in the forthcoming update to Windows, is eye-candy" is factually false,
especially by virtue of the emphasis on "any". Here's what I think Roy is
trying to say: "The only thing that mildly interests *me* and *my* circle of
friends in Vista is the eye-candy."

>
> And yes, I've read (what's left of) the full feature list.
>
> AFAICT the changes fall into one of the following categories:
>
> . Eye-candy
> . Things that should have been fixed in XP
> . Marketing gobbledygook for new workflow methods
> . Version bumps
> . Ideas stolen from Apple
> . Ideas stolen from Linux
> . Even harsher DRM "protection"
> . Substandard implementations of things already better implemented by
> third-party developers, for the sake of being able to use the word
> "integrated".
>
> So tell me this, what exactly is it about Vista that has *you* creaming
> your jeans?

I haven't "creamed my jeans" for any OS yet. I'm just not that
passionate about operating systems. However, the stuff in "Things that
should have been fixed in XP", "Ideas stolen from Apple" and "Ideas stolen
from Linux" look pretty good. Of course, I'd probably use less words less
emotionally charged than "stealing" (if RMS is to be believe, nobody *owns*
an idea). I'd phrase "Things that should have been fixed in XP" for example,
as "Improvements over XP", thus avoiding the keyword "should" and the whole
philosophical is-ought problem.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is-ought_problem

> It's not like we haven't all been through this before. The transition
> from 98 to XP just left me slamming the desk, cursing at not being able
> to play any of my old games. To this day, I still cannot play "Blood 2:
> The Chosen"; one of my favourites, unless I dual boot into 98.

I think I have that game. Is it with the 4 undead characters, and you
need a minimum strength to dual wield assault rifles? I'll try to remember
to give it a shot on XP. Personally, I like XP (though the transition for me
was 95 -> 98 -> 98SE -> 2000 -> XP). The OS just kept getting better and
better, and I hope this trend continues.

>
> I have a voice messaging modem from Pace (old but excellent ... and
> without equal) that serves as my FAX and answering service, but if I
> need to access the advanced functions then I need 98 to do it, since
> apparently the COM API changed with the new XP HAL, and the old
> abandonware software from Pace won't work under XP.
>
> The list goes on; the DVD playback that worked flawlessly under 98, no
> longer worked under XP, since apparently nVidia and Macrovision
> conspired to *disable* that function of that graphics card for
> *political* reasons:
>
> http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=8425
>
> Of course, I have upgraded that graphics card since then ... and I
> upgraded the OS at the same time ... from XP to Linux.
>
> Now as much as I'd love to completely replace my entire software
> collection, and throw away thousands of pounds/dollars worth of
> hardware, every time Microsoft snaps their fingers; if you don't mind
> I'll just stick with Linux, that works on hardware old and new ...
> without restriction.
>
> So you'll forgive me if I seem rather less than enthusiastic about the
> latest hype.

Okay, so you've had a lot of problems with XP, and you like Linux
better. So stick with Linux. In case it needs to be said explicitly: I am
not advocating Windows (Vista, or any other version) to anybody on this
forum. Choose whatever OS you like the most; I really don't care. I'm not
asking you to be enthusiastic about Vista. I'm not asking you to replace
your entire collection. I'm not asking you to send Microsoft a single cent.
All I'm asking is that you not automatically assume that just because *YOU*
don't like Vista, that means *NOBODY* will.

Personally, I am looking forward to Vista with cautious optimism. From
my perspective, Microsoft has had a good track record (every OS was better
from the last, and XP is already pretty darn good), however they've had some
development problems with Vista (long delays, features scrapped, etc.) If
it's better than XP, then I'll use it. If it's not better than XP, then I'll
stick with XP (or perhaps switch to Linux). Again, this is just what *I*
will personally do. I am not recommending anybody else here to do the same
as me. Use your own brains and decide what's best for yourselves.

Again: I am not saying you (or anybody else) has to like Vista. I'm just
saying don't spread lies about Vista.

> Despite the marketing-speak, Vista is going to be exactly
> what XP was, one step forward and two steps back.
>
> I *will* save a snapshot of my shiny new Vista (Beta) desktop for
> posterity, however. I'll print it out, frame it, and hang it on the
> wall, with a sign underneath that reads "Windows XP SP3: Eye-Candy
> Edition".

That's fine. In that context (somewhere in your house or office), it's
clearly satirical, so I have no problem with that. I can laugh at myself,
nevermind the OS I use (which is very far from being a fundamental part of
my identity). However, I object to Roy making posts with the flag "[News]"
and calling Vista "SP3". I also object to serious advocacy discussions in
which products are not referred to by their proper names. It has the same
maturity as referring to Linux as "Linsux" for example, and just adds
useless noise, instead of interesting information, to the discussion.

- Oliver