[News] Microsoft 'taking security risks'

Peter KÃ¶hlmann · External Since: Jun 27, 2005 Posts: 1500

Oliver Wong wrote:

< snip >

>>> and between 2 and 4
>>> during its first month (including that one from the first week).
>>>
>>
>> You are extremely optimistic. And forgot *at* *least* one trailing zero
>
> Okay, so it's a bet: I say 2 to 4; you say... 20-40? 200-400? Give me
> a
> number, or a number range, and we'll see who's closer.
>
>>
>> Why do you think that only the "good guys" have downloaded the RC
>> version?
>
> I don't understand this question, or what you're trying to imply by
> surrounding "good guys" with quotes.
>

Well, it actually is very simple. The "bad guys" have naturally also
downloaded the RC version of vista.
And you can bet any amount of money that they are working it to find as many
flaws as possible.
Since MS is doing such shoddy coding, chances are that most of the found
holes remain unplugged in the final version

So the bad guys will have some exploits ready the moment vista appears
--
Microsoft software doesn't get released - it escapes, leaving
a trail of destruction behind it.

flatfish+++ · External Since: Dec 12, 2004 Posts: 2793

On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 19:02:32 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:

> Well, it actually is very simple. The "bad guys" have naturally also
> downloaded the RC version of vista.
> And you can bet any amount of money that they are working it to find as many
> flaws as possible.
> Since MS is doing such shoddy coding, chances are that most of the found
> holes remain unplugged in the final version
>
> So the bad guys will have some exploits ready the moment vista appears

And the bad guys have the source code to Linux.

As soon as they can find some desktops to infect, they will.

You don't get hacker points in the black hat world by attacking something
(Linux) that has .2 percent of the desktop and might get into the single
digits in 5 years or so.

It doesn't make sense.

Linonut · External Since: Mar 31, 2006 Posts: 3492

After takin' a swig o' grog, flatfish+++ belched out this bit o' wisdom:

> On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 19:02:32 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>
>
>> Well, it actually is very simple. The "bad guys" have naturally also
>> downloaded the RC version of vista.
>> And you can bet any amount of money that they are working it to find as many
>> flaws as possible.
>> Since MS is doing such shoddy coding, chances are that most of the found
>> holes remain unplugged in the final version
>>
>> So the bad guys will have some exploits ready the moment vista appears
>
> And the bad guys have the source code to Linux.
>
> As soon as they can find some desktops to infect, they will.
>
> You don't get hacker points in the black hat world by attacking something
> (Linux) that has .2 percent of the desktop and might get into the single
> digits in 5 years or so.
>
> It doesn't make sense.

Sure it does. Just ask Erik and Zone-H.

Also that 0.2% is absurd.

--
"It turns out Luddites don't know how to use software properly,
so you should look into that." -- Bill Gates, FOCUS interview
http://www.cantrip.org/nobugs.html

flatfish+++ · External Since: Dec 12, 2004 Posts: 2793

On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 14:44:55 -0500, Linonut wrote:

> After takin' a swig o' grog, flatfish+++ belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>
>> On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 19:02:32 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Well, it actually is very simple. The "bad guys" have naturally also
>>> downloaded the RC version of vista.
>>> And you can bet any amount of money that they are working it to find as many
>>> flaws as possible.
>>> Since MS is doing such shoddy coding, chances are that most of the found
>>> holes remain unplugged in the final version
>>>
>>> So the bad guys will have some exploits ready the moment vista appears
>>
>> And the bad guys have the source code to Linux.
>>
>> As soon as they can find some desktops to infect, they will.
>>
>> You don't get hacker points in the black hat world by attacking something
>> (Linux) that has .2 percent of the desktop and might get into the single
>> digits in 5 years or so.
>>
>> It doesn't make sense.
>
> Sure it does. Just ask Erik and Zone-H.

Huh?

> Also that 0.2% is absurd.

No it's not.

Take a look at hit counts posted here all the time.
They ALL pretty much agree and they all pretty much put Linux at .2
percent.

This guy from Intel Corporation doesn't see Linux hitting single digits
for 5 years.

So 0.2 percent is a realistic figure.

http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3627061

Linonut · External Since: Mar 31, 2006 Posts: 3492

After takin' a swig o' grog, flatfish+++ belched out this bit o' wisdom:

> On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 14:44:55 -0500, Linonut wrote:
>
>> Sure it does. Just ask Erik and Zone-H.
>
> Huh?
>
>> Also that 0.2% is absurd.
>
> No it's not.
>
> Take a look at hit counts posted here all the time.

The hit counts don't mean beans.

> They ALL pretty much agree and they all pretty much put Linux at .2
> percent.

They are all self-biased counter-subscription sites, and do not control for
things like time of access (work vs. home).

> This guy from Intel Corporation doesn't see Linux hitting single digits
> for 5 years.

"in mature markets", whatever that means.

> So 0.2 percent is a realistic figure.

Except it could be 0.9 <grin>

> http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3627061

But that's market share. Who cares? Most people do not buy Linux.
They download it or get a CD from a friend, or a book.

--
Sandbox your Windows environment in a QEMU virtual machine.

Peter Köhlmann · External Since: Jun 27, 2005 Posts: 795

flatfish+++ wrote:

> On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 19:02:32 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>
>
>> Well, it actually is very simple. The "bad guys" have naturally also
>> downloaded the RC version of vista.
>> And you can bet any amount of money that they are working it to find as
>> many flaws as possible.
>> Since MS is doing such shoddy coding, chances are that most of the found
>> holes remain unplugged in the final version
>>
>> So the bad guys will have some exploits ready the moment vista appears
>
> And the bad guys have the source code to Linux.
>
> As soon as they can find some desktops to infect, they will.
>
Explain in detail why they don't infect the many servers running on linux

All they seem to accomplish is to attack some websites. And that is mostly
like shooting fish in the barrel, given how shoddy some sites are set up

> You don't get hacker points in the black hat world by attacking something
> (Linux) that has .2 percent of the desktop and might get into the single
> digits in 5 years or so.
>
> It doesn't make sense.

You don't make any sense, as usual
And you still try to perpetuate your bogus numbers. Be happy with your
self-delusions
--
Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with your Microsoft product.

flatfish+++ · External Since: Dec 12, 2004 Posts: 2793

On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 20:34:51 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:

> flatfish+++ wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 19:02:32 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Well, it actually is very simple. The "bad guys" have naturally also
>>> downloaded the RC version of vista.
>>> And you can bet any amount of money that they are working it to find as
>>> many flaws as possible.
>>> Since MS is doing such shoddy coding, chances are that most of the found
>>> holes remain unplugged in the final version
>>>
>>> So the bad guys will have some exploits ready the moment vista appears
>>
>> And the bad guys have the source code to Linux.
>>
>> As soon as they can find some desktops to infect, they will.
>>
> Explain in detail why they don't infect the many servers running on linux

For the same reason the Windows desktop is a primary target.
With the idiots behind the keyboard, even the script kiddies can infect
them.
IOW it's much easier to infect a desktop either by social engineering or
just plain ignorance of the user, than it is to infect servers.

The same goes for Linux, as soon as there is a desktop market share worth
infecting that is.

> All they seem to accomplish is to attack some websites. And that is mostly
> like shooting fish in the barrel, given how shoddy some sites are set up

Murderer!!!

>> You don't get hacker points in the black hat world by attacking something
>> (Linux) that has .2 percent of the desktop and might get into the single
>> digits in 5 years or so.
>>
>> It doesn't make sense.
>
> You don't make any sense, as usual
> And you still try to perpetuate your bogus numbers. Be happy with your
> self-delusions

Bogus numbers?

I don't think so........

http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3627061

"For the desktop, market share in mature markets will be single digits in
five years"

Oliver Wong · External Since: Apr 27, 2006 Posts: 1398

"Peter Köhlmann" <peter.koehlmann.TakeThisOut@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:eg3dok$e07$01$1@news.t-online.com...
> Oliver Wong wrote:
>
> < snip >
>
>>>> and between 2 and 4
>>>> during its first month (including that one from the first week).
>>>>
>>>
>>> You are extremely optimistic. And forgot *at* *least* one trailing zero
>>
>> Okay, so it's a bet: I say 2 to 4; you say... 20-40? 200-400? Give me
>> a
>> number, or a number range, and we'll see who's closer.

You didn't give a number or a number range. How many new exploits do you
predict Vista will have within the first month? Or are you afraid of
committing to specific answer, as it might show the extent of your
exageration when bashing Vista and Microsoft products in general?

>>> Why do you think that only the "good guys" have downloaded the RC
>>> version?
>>
>> I don't understand this question, or what you're trying to imply by
>> surrounding "good guys" with quotes.
>>
>
> Well, it actually is very simple. The "bad guys" have naturally also
> downloaded the RC version of vista.
> And you can bet any amount of money that they are working it to find as
> many
> flaws as possible.
> Since MS is doing such shoddy coding, chances are that most of the found
> holes remain unplugged in the final version
>
> So the bad guys will have some exploits ready the moment vista appears

Oh, so you're asking me why it is that I've made the assumption that
only white hats have downloaded the RC? I haven't made that assumption. I
don't know what gave you that impression.

- Oliver

flatfish+++ · External Since: Dec 12, 2004 Posts: 2793

On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 18:58:28 -0500, Linonut wrote:

> After takin' a swig o' grog, flatfish+++ belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>
>> On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 14:44:55 -0500, Linonut wrote:
>>
>>> Sure it does. Just ask Erik and Zone-H.
>>
>> Huh?
>>
>>> Also that 0.2% is absurd.
>>
>> No it's not.
>>
>> Take a look at hit counts posted here all the time.
>
> The hit counts don't mean beans.
>
>> They ALL pretty much agree and they all pretty much put Linux at .2
>> percent.
>
> They are all self-biased counter-subscription sites, and do not control for
> things like time of access (work vs. home).
>
>> This guy from Intel Corporation doesn't see Linux hitting single digits
>> for 5 years.
>
> "in mature markets", whatever that means.
>
>> So 0.2 percent is a realistic figure.
>
> Except it could be 0.9 <grin>
>
>> http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3627061
>
> But that's market share. Who cares? Most people do not buy Linux.
> They download it or get a CD from a friend, or a book.

When several measurable *things* all point to the same figure and when
industry leaders back that figure up (you don't hear Suse/Novell screaming
do you?) then I tend to believe that said figure is a reasonable one.

Not being able to measure Linux is a lame excuse.

The Ghost In The Machine · External Since: Aug 04, 2005 Posts: 3878

In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Linonut
<linonut.TakeThisOut@bone.com>
wrote
on Thu, 05 Oct 2006 14:44:55 -0500
<Sb-dnasZPf8q_bjYnZ2dnUVZ_qudnZ2d.TakeThisOut@comcast.com>:
> After takin' a swig o' grog, flatfish+++ belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>
>> On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 19:02:32 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Well, it actually is very simple. The "bad guys" have naturally also
>>> downloaded the RC version of vista.
>>> And you can bet any amount of money that they are working it to find as many
>>> flaws as possible.
>>> Since MS is doing such shoddy coding, chances are that most of the found
>>> holes remain unplugged in the final version
>>>
>>> So the bad guys will have some exploits ready the moment vista appears
>>
>> And the bad guys have the source code to Linux.
>>
>> As soon as they can find some desktops to infect, they will.
>>
>> You don't get hacker points in the black hat world by attacking something
>> (Linux) that has .2 percent of the desktop and might get into the single
>> digits in 5 years or so.
>>
>> It doesn't make sense.
>
> Sure it does. Just ask Erik and Zone-H.
>
> Also that 0.2% is absurd.
>

Maybe not, if one uses *revenue* as a metric...but if so,
that's highly misleading.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Windows_and_Linux

suggests a 3%-4% share, though the article itself is somewhat
disputed, apparently could use additional cites, and in one
section a complete rewrite is in order.

Given that, a $199 price for XP, and an average price of
$19.99 for Linux (a simplistic assumption, of course) one
could get a 0.3%-0.4% figure for revenue. Obviously this
figure is completely useless for unit-by-unit comparison
purposes, as opposed to sales figures.

Another possibility is to use 10-K filings.

According to Microsoft's 10-K filing, Microsoft received
in FY2005 a total of $12,151,000,000 (give or take) for
their client segment -- presumably, mostly OS.

One can compare this to RHat's *subscription* revenue
(since RedHat gives away the actual software for free,
more or less). There are some issues since the fiscal
years are differently based (RedHat's apparently starts
March 1) but in the fiscal year ending 2006-02-28, their
subscription revenue was $230,444,000 . That translates
into a 1.90% market revenue share.

Of course RedHat isn't exactly a monopoly in this space.

Novell suggests that "Linux and platform services
solutions" garnered $445,146,000 in the fiscal year ending
2005-10-31, or about 3.66%.

What these figures actually mean is very hard to say, of course;
I'm comparing apples and oranges -- a bit of a necessity since
the CSS orange has different capabilities from the OSS apple.
(Or vice versa.)

But I've already disproven the 0.3%-0.4% revenue share
number, methinks. (Unless I'm missing something.)

--
#191, ewill3.TakeThisOut@earthlink.net
Been there, done that, didn't get the T-shirt.

Peter Hayes · External Since: Oct 10, 2005 Posts: 202

In <63cVg.16$ds1.2@newsfe11.lga> flatfish+++ wrote:
> On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 19:02:32 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>
>
>> Well, it actually is very simple. The "bad guys" have naturally also
>> downloaded the RC version of vista.
>> And you can bet any amount of money that they are working it to find
>> as many flaws as possible. Since MS is doing such shoddy coding,
>> chances are that most of the found holes remain unplugged in the
>> final version So the bad guys will have some exploits ready the
>> moment vista appears
>
> And the bad guys have the source code to Linux.
>
> As soon as they can find some desktops to infect, they will.

Very droll, but completely irrelevent to the discussion at hand.

A typical flatfish attempt to spin the discussion away from anything
that embarasses Microsoft.

--

Peter

flatfish+++ · External Since: Dec 12, 2004 Posts: 2793

On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 22:01:28 +0000, Peter Hayes wrote:

> In <63cVg.16$ds1.2@newsfe11.lga> flatfish+++ wrote:
>> On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 19:02:32 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Well, it actually is very simple. The "bad guys" have naturally also
>>> downloaded the RC version of vista.
>>> And you can bet any amount of money that they are working it to find
>>> as many flaws as possible. Since MS is doing such shoddy coding,
>>> chances are that most of the found holes remain unplugged in the
>>> final version So the bad guys will have some exploits ready the
>>> moment vista appears
>>
>> And the bad guys have the source code to Linux.
>>
>> As soon as they can find some desktops to infect, they will.
>
> Very droll, but completely irrelevent to the discussion at hand.
>
> A typical flatfish attempt to spin the discussion away from anything
> that embarasses Microsoft.

Not so.....

See the above, and I quote:

"So the bad guys will have some exploits ready the
moment vista appears"

It's the same for Linux:

"The bad guys will have some exploits ready as soon as Linux on the
desktop appears".

In measurable numbers that is!!!

What's the difference?

Peter Köhlmann · External Since: Jun 27, 2005 Posts: 795

Oliver Wong wrote:

>
> "Peter Köhlmann" <peter.koehlmann.RemoveThis@t-online.de> wrote in message
> news:eg3dok$e07$01$1@news.t-online.com...
>> Oliver Wong wrote:
>>
>> < snip >
>>
>>>>> and between 2 and 4
>>>>> during its first month (including that one from the first week).
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You are extremely optimistic. And forgot *at* *least* one trailing zero
>>>
>>> Okay, so it's a bet: I say 2 to 4; you say... 20-40? 200-400? Give
>>> me a
>>> number, or a number range, and we'll see who's closer.
>
> You didn't give a number or a number range. How many new exploits do
> you
> predict Vista will have within the first month? Or are you afraid of
> committing to specific answer, as it might show the extent of your
> exageration when bashing Vista and Microsoft products in general?
>

I don't know how may there will be the first weeks
But I am fairly certain that your optimistic 2 - 4 exploits are exceeded the
very first week

>>>> Why do you think that only the "good guys" have downloaded the RC
>>>> version?
>>>
>>> I don't understand this question, or what you're trying to imply by
>>> surrounding "good guys" with quotes.
>>>
>>
>> Well, it actually is very simple. The "bad guys" have naturally also
>> downloaded the RC version of vista.
>> And you can bet any amount of money that they are working it to find as
>> many
>> flaws as possible.
>> Since MS is doing such shoddy coding, chances are that most of the found
>> holes remain unplugged in the final version
>>
>> So the bad guys will have some exploits ready the moment vista appears
>
> Oh, so you're asking me why it is that I've made the assumption that
> only white hats have downloaded the RC? I haven't made that assumption. I
> don't know what gave you that impression.
>

Well, you certainly haven't taken the bad guys into account when guessing
the number of explots vista will have when it excapes into the public

Face it, they don't need to wait until it appears. They are working *now* on
the exploits to make Vista even worse than the most shoddy product ever
until now, WinXP
--
Microsoft? Is that some kind of a toilet paper?

Peter Köhlmann · External Since: Jun 27, 2005 Posts: 795

Peter Hayes wrote:

> In <63cVg.16$ds1.2@newsfe11.lga> flatfish+++ wrote:
>> On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 19:02:32 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Well, it actually is very simple. The "bad guys" have naturally also
>>> downloaded the RC version of vista.
>>> And you can bet any amount of money that they are working it to find
>>> as many flaws as possible. Since MS is doing such shoddy coding,
>>> chances are that most of the found holes remain unplugged in the
>>> final version So the bad guys will have some exploits ready the
>>> moment vista appears
>>
>> And the bad guys have the source code to Linux.
>>
>> As soon as they can find some desktops to infect, they will.
>
> Very droll, but completely irrelevent to the discussion at hand.
>

Right. But even *if* it were relevant, where are the exploits? They have the
source code since day one

> A typical flatfish attempt to spin the discussion away from anything
> that embarasses Microsoft.
>

Well, his beloved Wintendo will be just another security nightmare, and
flatfish knows it. There is no indication whatsoever that Vista will be
*any* better regarding security than WinXP was. And that one was the
shoddiest product ever
--
Microsoft software doesn't get released - it escapes, leaving
a trail of destruction behind it.

flatfish+++ · External Since: Dec 12, 2004 Posts: 2793

On Fri, 06 Oct 2006 00:14:30 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:

> Peter Hayes wrote:
>
>> In <63cVg.16$ds1.2@newsfe11.lga> flatfish+++ wrote:
>>> On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 19:02:32 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Well, it actually is very simple. The "bad guys" have naturally also
>>>> downloaded the RC version of vista.
>>>> And you can bet any amount of money that they are working it to find
>>>> as many flaws as possible. Since MS is doing such shoddy coding,
>>>> chances are that most of the found holes remain unplugged in the
>>>> final version So the bad guys will have some exploits ready the
>>>> moment vista appears
>>>
>>> And the bad guys have the source code to Linux.
>>>
>>> As soon as they can find some desktops to infect, they will.
>>
>> Very droll, but completely irrelevent to the discussion at hand.
>>
>
> Right. But even *if* it were relevant, where are the exploits? They have the
> source code since day one
>
>> A typical flatfish attempt to spin the discussion away from anything
>> that embarasses Microsoft.
>>
>
> Well, his beloved Wintendo will be just another security nightmare, and
> flatfish knows it. There is no indication whatsoever that Vista will be
> *any* better regarding security than WinXP was. And that one was the
> shoddiest product ever

And within a week Vista will have already garnered more desktop users than
Linux has made in 15 or more years.

Peter Köhlmann · External Since: Jun 27, 2005 Posts: 795

flatfish+++ wrote:

> On Fri, 06 Oct 2006 00:14:30 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>
>> Peter Hayes wrote:
>>
>>> In <63cVg.16$ds1.2@newsfe11.lga> flatfish+++ wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 19:02:32 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Well, it actually is very simple. The "bad guys" have naturally also
>>>>> downloaded the RC version of vista.
>>>>> And you can bet any amount of money that they are working it to find
>>>>> as many flaws as possible. Since MS is doing such shoddy coding,
>>>>> chances are that most of the found holes remain unplugged in the
>>>>> final version So the bad guys will have some exploits ready the
>>>>> moment vista appears
>>>>
>>>> And the bad guys have the source code to Linux.
>>>>
>>>> As soon as they can find some desktops to infect, they will.
>>>
>>> Very droll, but completely irrelevent to the discussion at hand.
>>>
>>
>> Right. But even *if* it were relevant, where are the exploits? They have
>> the source code since day one
>>
>>> A typical flatfish attempt to spin the discussion away from anything
>>> that embarasses Microsoft.
>>>
>>
>> Well, his beloved Wintendo will be just another security nightmare, and
>> flatfish knows it. There is no indication whatsoever that Vista will be
>> *any* better regarding security than WinXP was. And that one was the
>> shoddiest product ever
>
>
> And within a week Vista will have already garnered more desktop users than
> Linux has made in 15 or more years.

Which says absolutely nothing about it being a security nightmare
--
Windows - How do you want to be exploited today?

Peter Köhlmann · External Since: Jun 27, 2005 Posts: 795

flatfish+++ wrote:

> On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 22:01:28 +0000, Peter Hayes wrote:
>
>> In <63cVg.16$ds1.2@newsfe11.lga> flatfish+++ wrote:
>>> On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 19:02:32 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Well, it actually is very simple. The "bad guys" have naturally also
>>>> downloaded the RC version of vista.
>>>> And you can bet any amount of money that they are working it to find
>>>> as many flaws as possible. Since MS is doing such shoddy coding,
>>>> chances are that most of the found holes remain unplugged in the
>>>> final version So the bad guys will have some exploits ready the
>>>> moment vista appears
>>>
>>> And the bad guys have the source code to Linux.
>>>
>>> As soon as they can find some desktops to infect, they will.
>>
>> Very droll, but completely irrelevent to the discussion at hand.
>>
>> A typical flatfish attempt to spin the discussion away from anything
>> that embarasses Microsoft.
>
> Not so.....
>
> See the above, and I quote:
>
> "So the bad guys will have some exploits ready the
> moment vista appears"
>
>
> It's the same for Linux:
>
>
> "The bad guys will have some exploits ready as soon as Linux on the
> desktop appears".
>
> In measurable numbers that is!!!
>
> What's the difference?

The difference is that you constantly want to talk about (bogus numbers)
desktop installs only. And try to forget about the huge numbers of servers
already there.
They have the source since day one. Where are the exploits?
--
Micro$oft. What's broken today?

Oliver Wong · External Since: Apr 27, 2006 Posts: 1398

"Peter Köhlmann" <peter.koehlmann DeleteThis @t-online.de> wrote in message
news:eg3vng$9i5$02$1@news.t-online.com...
> Oliver Wong wrote:
>
>>
>> "Peter Khlmann" <peter.koehlmann DeleteThis @t-online.de> wrote in message
>> news:eg3dok$e07$01$1@news.t-online.com...
>>> Oliver Wong wrote:
>>>
>>> < snip >
>>>
>>>>>> and between 2 and 4
>>>>>> during its first month (including that one from the first week).
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You are extremely optimistic. And forgot *at* *least* one trailing
>>>>> zero
>>>>
>>>> Okay, so it's a bet: I say 2 to 4; you say... 20-40? 200-400? Give
>>>> me a
>>>> number, or a number range, and we'll see who's closer.
>>
>> You didn't give a number or a number range. How many new exploits do
>> you
>> predict Vista will have within the first month? Or are you afraid of
>> committing to specific answer, as it might show the extent of your
>> exageration when bashing Vista and Microsoft products in general?
>>
>
> I don't know how may there will be the first weeks
> But I am fairly certain that your optimistic 2 - 4 exploits are exceeded
> the
> very first week

I don't know either, but I'm willing to make a guess, for the sake of
this game. You had said that I was "extremely optimistic", and had "forgot
*at* *least* one trailing zero". Does that mean you're predicting 20-40, or
200-400, or 2000-4000? Or are you going to play it safe and say "5 or 6?" If
the latter, do you admit that you may have been exagerating security flaws
in Vista? And if so, do you admit that you have a tendency to exagerate
flaws in Vista in general on this newsgroup?

>
> Well, you certainly haven't taken the bad guys into account when guessing
> the number of explots vista will have when it excapes into the public
>
> Face it, they don't need to wait until it appears. They are working *now*
> on
> the exploits to make Vista even worse than the most shoddy product ever
> until now, WinXP

Yes, I'm aware of all of this. People also had the opportunity to test
Win2K and WinXP (I was one of them) and find exploits for them before they
were released. My prediction of 2-4 already takes this into account. But you
still haven't given me your prediction. What is it?

- Oliver

Peter Köhlmann · External Since: Jun 27, 2005 Posts: 795

Oliver Wong wrote:

>
> "Peter Köhlmann" <peter.koehlmann.DeleteThis@t-online.de> wrote in message
> news:eg3vng$9i5$02$1@news.t-online.com...
>> Oliver Wong wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "Peter Khlmann" <peter.koehlmann.DeleteThis@t-online.de> wrote in message
>>> news:eg3dok$e07$01$1@news.t-online.com...
>>>> Oliver Wong wrote:
>>>>
>>>> < snip >
>>>>
>>>>>>> and between 2 and 4
>>>>>>> during its first month (including that one from the first week).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are extremely optimistic. And forgot *at* *least* one trailing
>>>>>> zero
>>>>>
>>>>> Okay, so it's a bet: I say 2 to 4; you say... 20-40? 200-400? Give
>>>>> me a
>>>>> number, or a number range, and we'll see who's closer.
>>>
>>> You didn't give a number or a number range. How many new exploits do
>>> you
>>> predict Vista will have within the first month? Or are you afraid of
>>> committing to specific answer, as it might show the extent of your
>>> exageration when bashing Vista and Microsoft products in general?
>>>
>>
>> I don't know how may there will be the first weeks
>> But I am fairly certain that your optimistic 2 - 4 exploits are exceeded
>> the
>> very first week
>
> I don't know either, but I'm willing to make a guess, for the sake of
> this game. You had said that I was "extremely optimistic", and had "forgot
> *at* *least* one trailing zero". Does that mean you're predicting 20-40,
> or 200-400, or 2000-4000? Or are you going to play it safe and say "5 or
> 6?" If the latter, do you admit that you may have been exagerating
> security flaws in Vista? And if so, do you admit that you have a tendency
> to exagerate flaws in Vista in general on this newsgroup?
>
>>
>> Well, you certainly haven't taken the bad guys into account when guessing
>> the number of explots vista will have when it excapes into the public
>>
>> Face it, they don't need to wait until it appears. They are working *now*
>> on
>> the exploits to make Vista even worse than the most shoddy product ever
>> until now, WinXP
>
> Yes, I'm aware of all of this. People also had the opportunity to test
> Win2K and WinXP (I was one of them) and find exploits for them before they
> were released. My prediction of 2-4 already takes this into account. But
> you still haven't given me your prediction. What is it?
>
> - Oliver

What part of "I don't know how may there will be the first weeks" was so
unclear and needs explanation?
I am just fairly certain that 2 - 4 exploits is way too low

--
Confucius: He who play in root, eventually kill tree.

flatfish+++ · External Since: Dec 12, 2004 Posts: 2793

On Fri, 06 Oct 2006 16:34:06 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:

> Oliver Wong wrote:
>
>>
>> "Peter Köhlmann" <peter.koehlmann.TakeThisOut@t-online.de> wrote in message
>> news:eg3vng$9i5$02$1@news.t-online.com...
>>> Oliver Wong wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Peter Khlmann" <peter.koehlmann.TakeThisOut@t-online.de> wrote in message
>>>> news:eg3dok$e07$01$1@news.t-online.com...
>>>>> Oliver Wong wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> < snip >
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and between 2 and 4
>>>>>>>> during its first month (including that one from the first week).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You are extremely optimistic. And forgot *at* *least* one trailing
>>>>>>> zero
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Okay, so it's a bet: I say 2 to 4; you say... 20-40? 200-400? Give
>>>>>> me a
>>>>>> number, or a number range, and we'll see who's closer.
>>>>
>>>> You didn't give a number or a number range. How many new exploits do
>>>> you
>>>> predict Vista will have within the first month? Or are you afraid of
>>>> committing to specific answer, as it might show the extent of your
>>>> exageration when bashing Vista and Microsoft products in general?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I don't know how may there will be the first weeks
>>> But I am fairly certain that your optimistic 2 - 4 exploits are exceeded
>>> the
>>> very first week
>>
>> I don't know either, but I'm willing to make a guess, for the sake of
>> this game. You had said that I was "extremely optimistic", and had "forgot
>> *at* *least* one trailing zero". Does that mean you're predicting 20-40,
>> or 200-400, or 2000-4000? Or are you going to play it safe and say "5 or
>> 6?" If the latter, do you admit that you may have been exagerating
>> security flaws in Vista? And if so, do you admit that you have a tendency
>> to exagerate flaws in Vista in general on this newsgroup?
>>
>>>
>>> Well, you certainly haven't taken the bad guys into account when guessing
>>> the number of explots vista will have when it excapes into the public
>>>
>>> Face it, they don't need to wait until it appears. They are working *now*
>>> on
>>> the exploits to make Vista even worse than the most shoddy product ever
>>> until now, WinXP
>>
>> Yes, I'm aware of all of this. People also had the opportunity to test
>> Win2K and WinXP (I was one of them) and find exploits for them before they
>> were released. My prediction of 2-4 already takes this into account. But
>> you still haven't given me your prediction. What is it?
>>
>> - Oliver
>
> What part of "I don't know how may there will be the first weeks" was so
> unclear and needs explanation?
> I am just fairly certain that 2 - 4 exploits is way too low

Stop evading the question Peter.