Linux users CRYING cause they don't have STEAM! PATHETIC!!!!

Hadron · External Since: Jul 17, 2007 Posts: 305

Zaghadka <zaghadka.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> writes:

> On Wed, 1 Aug 2007 11:16:32 +0000 (UTC), in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg, Davorin
> Vlahovic wrote:
>
>>On 2007-08-01, Christopher Hunter <chrisehunter.DeleteThis@NOSPAMblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Hadron wrote:
>>>
>>>> What windows users favourite games are you talking about? Considering
>>>> that most wont run on Linux?
>>>
>>> They do under Cedega, Wine or one of the other emulator applications. In
>>> many cases they run /better/ under an emulator than under Windows.
>>
>>Wine is not an emulator.
>
> In fact, in the tradition of GNU, that's what it stands for:
>
> (W)ine (I)s (N)ot an (E)mulator.

Wrong. That was a suggestion not taken up by the developers. Google it
up. WINE was and IS an emulator but the emulator was taken from the name
because, as in this thread, people with no ability to think outside of
the box and thought they were technical geniuses because they knew what
a CPU emulator was got confused. See posts in thread for links to facts
and not baseless opinions.

Static Void · External Since: Aug 02, 2007 Posts: 1

Benjamin Gawert wrote:
> Right, but guys like Christopher Hunter are constantly prooving that
> they lack even the most basic knowledge about the stuff they are
> talking about, so it should be obvious to anyone reading their posts
> that they are just that - bullshitting idiots.
> And even here at comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action we have them: pc retard
> and Danger.

That should read "pc retard aka Danger" (compare writing styles and
message sources, it's quite obvious they are one and the same).

Benjamin Gawert · External Since: Oct 01, 2006 Posts: 16

* Thufir:

>> A fully useable Linux installation doesn't consume less resources than
>> Windows.
>
> Perhaps. I know that with Linux if I overload the memory with too many
> apps doing too many thing and manage to freeze gnome, which I do from
> time to time, I can generally ctrl-alt-backspace and just re-login. In
> windows, it would be ctrl-alt-delete to restart.

Can't confirm that (but then I never used the DOS-based Win9x and ME
versions). If memory gets filled up completely (i.e. by pressing
Windowskey+E to open new explorer Windows) I just get a message that
memory is full, and it won't open new Windows any more. Closing all the
Explorer Windows is more difficult, though Wink

> In my experience, windows desktops are not nearly as reliable as Linux.

Also this I can't confirm. At work we have dozens of Workstations
running CFD and MCAD packages 24hrs/day, and when there is a crash then
there always is a hardware problem, too (i.e. memory or disk).

> In Linux, it's easier to run different apps on different desktops. I
> haven't seen Vista, but imagine that Microsoft is trying to go that route
> but doesn't want to appear like the idea of multiple desktops didn't
> originate with them.

Yes, the idea of multiple screens isn't really implemented in Windows or
MacOS until 10.4 (10.5 will now have multiple desktops, too).

But then, the demand for multiple desktops at least from our users is
not there. I think if you're used to it you will miss it, but probably
for most average users the need for multiple desktops just doesn't seem
to be there.

Benjamin

Benjamin

Roger Christie · External Since: Aug 02, 2007 Posts: 1

--

www.blackcatcrossing.net
"Benjamin Gawert" <bgawert DeleteThis @gmx.de> wrote in message
news:5hdqj9F3hu2qkU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> Yes, the idea of multiple screens isn't really implemented in Windows or
> MacOS until 10.4 (10.5 will now have multiple desktops, too).
>

Nonsense. Macs have supported multiple monitors and desktops seamlessly for
just about forever.

Davorin Vlahovic · External Since: Jan 03, 2005 Posts: 305

On 2007-08-02, Hadron <hadronquark DeleteThis @googlemail.com> wrote:
>>> Windows has around 200 system calls, but only about 20 are documented.
>>
>> 19 of those 20 are incorrectly or inaccurately documented, and 199 out of
>> the 200 don't work properly.
>>
>> Actually, my /cheat/ /sheet/ shows 211 system calls.
>
> You both instantly lose all credibility you might have had. Which isn't
> much to start with. One of the reasons so much good SW exists for
> Windows is that the APIs *are* well documented and supported. Certainly
> much better than most OSS stuff used to be. So, into the tank you go.

It seems you're not all that familiar with windows to know what they
exactly do and how they actually work so this discussion is pretty
much pointless.

You're mixing WinNT native API and win32 API that is just a layer to the
native NT API (as is WINE on Linux).

I've shown you a diagram of win nt architecture
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5d/Windows_2000_architecture.svg)
with a specific point - to show you that the "well documented and
supported" win32 API is just a layer on top of the _real_ NT API
(http://www.metasploit.com/users/opcode/syscalls.html ; ever seen any of
those in a regular Windows program???) which resides in ntdll.dll file.
NT API is the actual workhorse of Windows.

This NT API is equivalent of int 80h API of Linux on x86.

So, the difference is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ntdll.dll vs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_API .

Here's another nice link:
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sysinternals/information/NativeApplic...ons.msp

""
If you have some familiarity with NT's architecture you are probably
aware that the API that Win32 applications use isn't the "real" NT API.
""

Anyway, I'm still waiting for you to tell me the diff between win32
subsystem and WINE and for an explanation if the WinNT/XP/2kX/Vista are
windows emulators.

Instead of you being rude in other posts I suggest you pick up some
knowledge and try to get the best from discussions like these because
they take you a long way.

And, since I'm not going to respond to your previous posts to me, I'm
in alt.os.linux, not c.o.l.a.
--
What a strange game.
The only winning move is not to play.

How about a nice game of chess?

Davorin Vlahovic · External Since: Jan 03, 2005 Posts: 305

On 2007-08-02, Hadron <hadronquark.RemoveThis@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> At best it's a compatibility layer.
>
> Again, wrong. It emulates the Windows system. So not at "best".

Funny, never seen a windows native app that runs on wine. Just Win32
apps.
--
What a strange game.
The only winning move is not to play.

How about a nice game of chess?

chrisv · External Since: Nov 02, 2004 Posts: 1792

Davorin Vlahovic wrote:

>On 2007-08-02, Hadron <hadronquark.DeleteThis@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>> At best it's a compatibility layer.
>>
>> Again, wrong. It emulates the Windows system. So not at "best".
>
>Funny, never seen a windows native app that runs on wine. Just Win32
>apps.

"Hadron" and "Tim Smith" are trolls. They've had this explained to
them already. I'd advise filtering them.

Kelsey Bjarnason · External Since: Mar 17, 2005 Posts: 817

[snips]

On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 17:57:47 -0500, DFS wrote:

> XP = a mess
> Vista = a derivate of a mess
> XP and Vista = 90% of the desktop market
> Linux = about 3% of desktop market

I'm sure you can back up those figures, with something *other* than sales
and revenue or web stats, right? After all, you wouldn't be so dishonest
as to examine sales and revenue when examining a product freely
downloadable and freely copyable, would you?

No, you're a good, honest, upstanding fellow; therefore you must have real
numbers, real validation of those claims above. I'd be fascinated to see
them.

Gerry Quinn · External Since: Aug 01, 2007 Posts: 5

In article <f26si.36685$2U6.6910@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
chrisehunter.RemoveThis@NOSPAMblueyonder.co.uk says...
> Hadron wrote:
> >
> > Do you have any facts to back up your claims? Or are you just another
> > ignorant fan boy making things up as you go along?
>
> I'm certainly /not/ ignorant, having worked for a couple of major software
> corporations in the USA (they have no real native talent so had to import
> us Europeans).

Then it is established: you are a liar.

[Apart from your actual egregious lies on this thread, setting follow-
ups is a standard behaviour of liars who fear being called on their
lies.]

- Gerry Quinn

Gerry Quinn · External Since: Aug 01, 2007 Posts: 5

In article <QWdsi.41310$%v3.23429@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
chrisehunter.TakeThisOut@NOSPAMblueyonder.co.uk says...
> Gerry Quinn wrote:
>
> > But you're from comp.sys.linux.advocacy, the *advocacy* tag meaning you
> > are a member of an utterly pathethic group of idiots.
>
> Nope - it just happened to be in the cross-posting list of groups from the
> original posting. I replied to alt.os.linux just as you did.

I didn't, actually.

It is unfortunate to see that the sort of loon one would expect to find
on an advocacy newsgroup also infests others. [Presumably also there
are occasional sane people on os advocacy newsgroups who haven't
realised how it drags their name through the mud.]

I suggest you subscribe to the newsgroup to which you naturally belong,
where the string of absurd lies you have come out with (which doubtless
make honest linux enthusiasts cringe) will be treated with reverence,
instead of with the contempt they deserve.

- Gerry Quinn

Davorin Vlahovic · External Since: Jan 03, 2005 Posts: 305

On 2007-08-02, chrisv <chrisv.RemoveThis@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>Funny, never seen a windows native app that runs on wine. Just Win32
>>apps.
>
> "Hadron" and "Tim Smith" are trolls. They've had this explained to
> them already. I'd advise filtering them.

You're right, my fault.

--
What a strange game.
The only winning move is not to play.

How about a nice game of chess?

waterskidoo · External Since: Jul 10, 2007 Posts: 308

On 2007-08-02, Davorin Vlahovic <nrubA.RemoveThis@ylf.krs.ref.rh> wrote:
> On 2007-08-02, Hadron <hadronquark.RemoveThis@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>> At best it's a compatibility layer.
>>
>> Again, wrong. It emulates the Windows system. So not at "best".
>
> Funny, never seen a windows native app that runs on wine. Just Win32
> apps.

I've never seen a Windows application run better under Wine than
under Windows, that's my experience. Installation generally
requires configuring this and that and often features of the
program don't work properly, screen paint issues, sound sync problems
and so forth abound.
The Winehg application database is also slanted highly
towards the positive. It seems if they can can a program to
install and *run*, it gets 4 or 5 stars. The features that
don't work get pushed under the carpet.

Look for yourself:
http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?iVersionId=315

About the best it gets is Crossover Office which does a decent
job of running older versions of Microsoft Office amongst
other things.

My opinion is that wine is a curiosity, proof of concept program
but that the people working on the project could be put
to better use working on native Linux programs instead of
trying to run Windows programs under Linux.
Many people disagree, and that's ok, but that's how *I* feel.

Kier · External Since: Feb 07, 2005 Posts: 2207

On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 09:49:04 -0500, DFS wrote:

> Face it: like every Linux "advocate" you can't stand MS' success, and you
> don't like to pay for software. That's really all there is to you twits.

Wrong, and wrong. If no one wanted Linux, there'd be no Linux. It's not
about unwillingness to pay for software, or hatred of MS. Though why it
should be considered a matter of virtue to spend large sums of money when
I can get something as good for nothing, I have no idea. Speanding money
does not convey virtue. It doesn't make you smart, either.

--
Kier

Hadron · External Since: Jul 17, 2007 Posts: 305

Gerry Quinn <gerryq.DeleteThis@indigo.ie> writes:

> In article <QWdsi.41310$%v3.23429@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
> chrisehunter.DeleteThis@NOSPAMblueyonder.co.uk says...
>> Gerry Quinn wrote:
>>
>> > But you're from comp.sys.linux.advocacy, the *advocacy* tag meaning you
>> > are a member of an utterly pathethic group of idiots.
>>
>> Nope - it just happened to be in the cross-posting list of groups from the
>> original posting. I replied to alt.os.linux just as you did.
>
> I didn't, actually.
>
> It is unfortunate to see that the sort of loon one would expect to find
> on an advocacy newsgroup also infests others. [Presumably also there
> are occasional sane people on os advocacy newsgroups who haven't
> realised how it drags their name through the mud.]
>
> I suggest you subscribe to the newsgroup to which you naturally belong,
> where the string of absurd lies you have come out with (which doubtless
> make honest linux enthusiasts cringe) will be treated with reverence,
> instead of with the contempt they deserve.
>
> - Gerry Quinn

Succinctly said.

Chunt will be packing his bags about now I would think. Not even the
usual COLA fanboyz are supporting his insane claims. I've said it before
: Linux zealots should *never* discuss gaming or multimedia because they
really have no idea at all how far behind Linux is on the "quality"
curve. Yes, a far better OS, excellent free hard core development tools
(if you want to learn emacs) but way behind in modern, supported, IDEs
with context help, built in CVS and associated tools.

Davorin Vlahovic · External Since: Jan 03, 2005 Posts: 305

On 2007-08-02, Hadron <hadronquark DeleteThis @googlemail.com> wrote:
> I've said it before
>: Linux zealots should *never* discuss gaming or multimedia because they
> really have no idea at all how far behind Linux is on the "quality"
> curve.

Sure, I agree with you. Some time ago OpenGL was the king but today
graphics hardware manufacturers got pretty much DX centric. Of course,
things keep looking better and better the last few months.

The architecture of X Window System doesn't help much, either.
At least we've got SDL that's easy to work with, but not enough
creative developers to use it.

As I see it, the problem is that people who work for studios that
develop games have higher education while Joe Regular Linux Programmer
had no quality education in things such as linear algebra and other
graphics and music centric fields. Also, he was dumbed down by low
quality (non-inventive and fun, just graphics and visual effects) games
so he doesn't even try to write something fun.

> Yes, a far better OS, excellent free hard core development tools
> (if you want to learn emacs) but way behind in modern, supported, IDEs
> with context help, built in CVS and associated tools.

So, you've never heard of Netbeans and Eclipse, huh? Smile

BTW, CVS is
obsolete Smile

) Franky, I'm surprised you didn't mention SourceSafe :')
--
What a strange game.
The only winning move is not to play.

How about a nice game of chess?

Davorin Vlahovic · External Since: Jan 03, 2005 Posts: 305

On 2007-08-02, waterskidoo <water.skidoo RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Funny, never seen a windows native app that runs on wine. Just Win32
>> apps.
>
> I've never seen a Windows application run better under Wine than
> under Windows, that's my experience.

Can't be any other way because of sloppy ways 3rd party win programmers
write their code. Even microsoft programmers claimed they had to
rework parts of windows on per-app basis so big and important apps
could run on newer versions of windows. Not a problem with windows but
with lousy app writers.

> Installation generally
> requires configuring this and that and often features of the
> program don't work properly, screen paint issues, sound sync problems
> and so forth abound.

Well, sometimes, but that's not the issue here. We're talking about
something else.

> The Winehg application database is also slanted highly
> towards the positive. It seems if they can can a program to
> install and *run*, it gets 4 or 5 stars. The features that
> don't work get pushed under the carpet.
>
> Look for yourself:
> http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?iVersionId=315

Wine works ok for apps I use (ie. demo of diablo 1 Smile

).

> My opinion is that wine is a curiosity, proof of concept program
> but that the people working on the project could be put
> to better use working on native Linux programs instead of
> trying to run Windows programs under Linux.
> Many people disagree, and that's ok, but that's how *I* feel.

They've made a lot of progress for PoC code. Smile

--
What a strange game.
The only winning move is not to play.

How about a nice game of chess?

Tim Smith · External Since: Apr 26, 2004 Posts: 2698

On 2007-08-02, chrisv <chrisv.DeleteThis@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> "Hadron" and "Tim Smith" are trolls. They've had this explained to
> them already. I'd advise filtering them.

Yeah, right. I cite the *developers* of Wine saying that it is a
Windows emulator, and you claim that this is trolling. You are an
idiot--or do you think the Wine developers are trolls, too?

Davorin Vlahovic · External Since: Jan 03, 2005 Posts: 305

On 2007-08-02, Tim Smith <reply_in_group.DeleteThis@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
> On 2007-08-02, chrisv <chrisv.DeleteThis@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> "Hadron" and "Tim Smith" are trolls. They've had this explained to
>> them already. I'd advise filtering them.
>
> Yeah, right. I cite the *developers* of Wine saying that it is a
> Windows emulator, and you claim that this is trolling. You are an
> idiot--or do you think the Wine developers are trolls, too?

If Bill Gates started claiming Windows is MacOS X would you blindly accept
it as truth? I hope not.
--
What a strange game.
The only winning move is not to play.

How about a nice game of chess?

Christopher Hunter · External Since: Jul 08, 2007 Posts: 67

Hadron wrote:

> You both instantly lose all credibility you might have had. Which isn't
> much to start with. One of the reasons so much good SW exists for
> Windows is that the APIs *are* well documented and supported. Certainly
> much better than most OSS stuff used to be.

Before /you/ get plonked, FYI, much of the documentation for Windows system
calls is _inaccurate,_ _out of date_ or _just plain wrong._ Been there,
got the T-shirt.

And now for the good bit:

*Plonk!*

C.

Christopher Hunter · External Since: Jul 08, 2007 Posts: 67

Davorin Vlahovic wrote:

> On 2007-08-02, Hadron <hadronquark RemoveThis @googlemail.com> wrote:
>>> At best it's a compatibility layer.
>>
>> Again, wrong. It emulates the Windows system. So not at "best".
>
> Funny, never seen a windows native app that runs on wine. Just Win32
> apps.

*Exactly!* I'm glad I "plonked" the moron earlier.

C.