Linux - the easy to use OS

Geico Caveman · External Since: Mar 04, 2006 Posts: 312

Just purchased a Microsoft wireless optical mouse. Say what you will about
Microsoft not being able to put together a professional OS with all their
money and time they have spent on it, but they make the best mice. Finally
caved in, got tired of numerous wired mice that broke every few weeks and
went for my favorite Microsoft product - the mouse.

My laptop, running Debian Etch (kernel 2.6.16 with suspend2 and fbsplash
patches) was *suspended* to swap (hibernating). So, this is not even a full
boot up. Opened the carton, plopped in the two Panasonic batteries that
came with the mouse, plugged in the hub into a USB port and resumed. The
mouse worked out of the box - nothing needed. Just now, I noticed a green
tag on the hub wire that asks me to "Install software first" (from a CD
that came with the mouse).

As I ripped off the tag, I realized the awful truth (for Microsoft) -
apparently Linux works more painlessly with Microsoft's own hardware than
Microsoft's toy OS does. It did not even take a full boot to do this !
Three cheers to Nigel Cunningham and others Smile

Scott Nudds · External Since: Sep 13, 2006 Posts: 275

"Bobbie" <bobbie4R3MOV3TH1S.RemoveThis@shaw.ca> wrote
> Hey, mice and men share one thing in common.
> They both need to have their balls cleaned regularly.

Modern Mice don't have Balls Bobbie.

You need to dump the Linux Shit Stick and upgrade your 1968 era OS with
someting more modern.... Like Windows NT.

Linonut · External Since: Mar 31, 2006 Posts: 3492

After takin' a swig o' grog, Bobbie belched out this bit o' wisdom:

> Hey, mice and men share one thing in common.
>
> They both need to have their balls cleaned regularly.

But my mouse gets more hand jobs.

--
Secret hacker rule #11: hackers read manuals.

[H]omer · External Since: Apr 21, 2006 Posts: 2134

Sinister Midget wrote:

> On the desktop I use a trackball. Logitech.

Last time I used a trackball was when I used to play Missile Command in
the '80s Smile

--
K.
http://slated.org - Slated, Rated & Blogged

..----
| L.A. town is falling down, while the ground moves around.
| We won't let it get us down; we're Californians!
`----
- Animaniacs ( http://youtube.com/watch?v=XKcgTnfoM9Q )

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12:56:23 up 107 days, 13:13, 3 users, load average: 0.03, 0.13, 0.15

Handover Phist · External Since: May 04, 2005 Posts: 507

Geico Caveman :

<snippedy>

> As I ripped off the tag, I realized the awful truth (for Microsoft) -
> apparently Linux works more painlessly with Microsoft's own hardware than
> Microsoft's toy OS does. It did not even take a full boot to do this !
> Three cheers to Nigel Cunningham and others Smile

I have a wireless USB keyboard/mouse combo that I had exactly the same
experience with. On initial boot LILO didnt see it, but Linux did. On
reboot (to Windows) LILO saw it, and Windows did too after a few minutes
of popping up little bubbles saying "Wow, Look! New Hardware! Wheeee!".
Linux didn't bother doing anything but Just Working.

--
You will live to see your grandchildren.

http://www.websterscafe.com

Johan Lindquist · External Since: Mar 25, 2004 Posts: 522

So anyway, it was like, 13:18 CEST Oct 03 2006, you know? Oh, and, yeah,
Sinister Midget was all like, "Dude,

> On the desktop I use a trackball.

Well, of course you do! Who in their right mind uses a mouse?

> Logitech.

My old Trackman Marble has served me well, sometimes I wish they still
made it like that, three buttons without the silly scroll wheel. At
other times, I actually find myself getting used to the one /with/ the
wheel I use at work.

Maintenance free, my ass, tho. Maybe in a cleanroom, but real people
actually do have grease on their fingers and dust in the air. Seems
Logitech forgot about that little detail when they decided against the
easy-to-remove ring that locks the ball in place and now instead force
you to take the entire cover off to clean it. Idiots.

--
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana. Perth ---> *
14:29:47 up 1 day, 20:24, 4 users, load average: 0.07, 0.07, 0.07
Linux 2.6.18 x86_64 GNU/Linux Registered Linux user #261729

Linonut · External Since: Mar 31, 2006 Posts: 3492

After takin' a swig o' grog, Johan Lindquist belched out this bit o' wisdom:

> Maintenance free, my ass, tho. Maybe in a cleanroom, but real people
> actually do have grease on their fingers and dust in the air. Seems
> Logitech forgot about that little detail when they decided against the
> easy-to-remove ring that locks the ball in place and now instead force
> you to take the entire cover off to clean it. Idiots.

The ball on the Logitech Marble Mouse pops right out.

--
"I'm going to f'in *kill* Google!"
-- Steve Ballmer, CEO Microsoft

AZ Nomad · External Since: May 26, 2005 Posts: 237

On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 08:32:19 -0500, Linonut <linonut DeleteThis @bone.com> wrote:

>After takin' a swig o' grog, Johan Lindquist belched out this bit o' wisdom:

>> Maintenance free, my ass, tho. Maybe in a cleanroom, but real people
>> actually do have grease on their fingers and dust in the air. Seems
>> Logitech forgot about that little detail when they decided against the
>> easy-to-remove ring that locks the ball in place and now instead force
>> you to take the entire cover off to clean it. Idiots.

>The ball on the Logitech Marble Mouse pops right out.

Good thing too. The logitech marbles require nearly daily maintenance
to keep them clean enough to roll smoothly. I had one in the 90's
and it worked well with OS/2, but I dumped it when I went to linux as
it had no support for the scroll buttons.

flatfish+++ · External Since: Dec 12, 2004 Posts: 2793

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 20:20:29 -0400, Geico Caveman wrote:

> Just purchased a Microsoft wireless optical mouse. Say what you will about
> Microsoft not being able to put together a professional OS with all their
> money and time they have spent on it, but they make the best mice. Finally
> caved in, got tired of numerous wired mice that broke every few weeks and
> went for my favorite Microsoft product - the mouse.

Interesting.
My Logitech LASER mouse (balls are a thing of the past. Ask Roy) works
perfectly with Windows XP.

All 5 buttons work and are easily assignable.
The tilt wheel works perfectly.

Linux?

I have the worlds most expensive 2 button mouse.

Oh yea, I could spend hours editing xorg.conf and make it semi-work but
why?

Linux just isn't a good choice with modern hardware.

Johan Lindquist · External Since: Mar 25, 2004 Posts: 522

So anyway, it was like, 15:32 CEST Oct 03 2006, you know? Oh, and, yeah,
Linonut was all like, "Dude,
> After takin' a swig o' grog, Johan Lindquist belched out this bit o' wisdom:

>> Maintenance free, my ass, tho. Maybe in a cleanroom, but real
>> people actually do have grease on their fingers and dust in the
>> air. Seems Logitech forgot about that little detail when they
>> decided against the easy-to-remove ring that locks the ball in
>> place and now instead force you to take the entire cover off to
>> clean it. Idiots.
>
> The ball on the Logitech Marble Mouse pops right out.

Given the huge drawback that it's a mouse and not a trackball (at
least the name suggests so), I'm not going to change no matter /how/
many mouse ball jokes it tells once it's popped out.

My point being that the Trackman Marble has gone from easy-maintenance
to screwdriver-assisted delinting. Not a step forward, in my book.

--
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana. Perth ---> *
15:39:39 up 1 day, 21:33, 4 users, load average: 0.12, 0.08, 0.04
Linux 2.6.18 x86_64 GNU/Linux Registered Linux user #261729

Hadron Quark · External Since: Sep 10, 2006 Posts: 1621

Handover Phist <jason.TakeThisOut@jason.websterscafe.com> writes:

> Geico Caveman :
>
> <snippedy>
>
>> As I ripped off the tag, I realized the awful truth (for Microsoft) -
>> apparently Linux works more painlessly with Microsoft's own hardware than
>> Microsoft's toy OS does. It did not even take a full boot to do this !
>> Three cheers to Nigel Cunningham and others Smile

>
> I have a wireless USB keyboard/mouse combo that I had exactly the same
> experience with. On initial boot LILO didnt see it, but Linux did. On
> reboot (to Windows) LILO saw it, and Windows did too after a few minutes
> of popping up little bubbles saying "Wow, Look! New Hardware! Wheeee!".
> Linux didn't bother doing anything but Just Working.

If your machine crashes, do a cold restart (unplug and replug) so grub
sees it (well, USB anyway).

--
It's a bird..
It's a plane..
No, it's KernelMan, faster than a speeding bullet, to your rescue.
Doing new kernel versions in under 5 seconds flat..
-- Linus, in the announcement for 1.3.27

Linonut · External Since: Mar 31, 2006 Posts: 3492

After takin' a swig o' grog, Johan Lindquist belched out this bit o' wisdom:

>> The ball on the Logitech Marble Mouse pops right out.
>
> Given the huge drawback that it's a mouse and not a trackball (at
> least the name suggests so), I'm not going to change no matter /how/
> many mouse ball jokes it tells once it's popped out.

It's a trackball. An ambidextrous one. I recommend it.

I hardly ever clean it.

> My point being that the Trackman Marble has gone from easy-maintenance
> to screwdriver-assisted delinting. Not a step forward, in my book.

This one is easy.

--
Windows XP is like a box of chocolates --
you never know when the steel bolts are going to spring out and
plunge straight through both cheeks.

Linonut · External Since: Mar 31, 2006 Posts: 3492

After takin' a swig o' grog, Handover Phist belched out this bit o' wisdom:

> I have a wireless USB keyboard/mouse combo that I had exactly the same
> experience with. On initial boot LILO didnt see it, but Linux did. On
> reboot (to Windows) LILO saw it, and Windows did too after a few minutes
> of popping up little bubbles saying "Wow, Look! New Hardware! Wheeee!".

Windows -- The OS that likes to hear itself talk.

--
"No! There are no significant bugs in our released software that any
significant number of users want fixed." -- Bill Gates, FOCUS interview
http://www.cantrip.org/nobugs.html

Linonut · External Since: Mar 31, 2006 Posts: 3492

After takin' a swig o' grog, flatfish+++ belched out this bit o' wisdom:

> On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 20:20:29 -0400, Geico Caveman wrote:
>
>> Just purchased a Microsoft wireless optical mouse. Say what you will about
>> Microsoft not being able to put together a professional OS with all their
>> money and time they have spent on it, but they make the best mice. Finally
>> caved in, got tired of numerous wired mice that broke every few weeks and
>> went for my favorite Microsoft product - the mouse.
>
> Interesting.
> My Logitech LASER mouse (balls are a thing of the past. Ask Roy) works
> perfectly with Windows XP.
>
> All 5 buttons work and are easily assignable.
> The tilt wheel works perfectly.
>
> Linux?
>
> I have the worlds most expensive 2 button mouse.
>
> Oh yea, I could spend hours editing xorg.conf and make it semi-work but
> why?

Hours? Minutes, at most.

> Linux just isn't a good choice with modern hardware.

Hey, if you want to spend $65 on a mouse, you can obviously afford
Windows.

You can get some of the functionality as is noted here:

http://hardware.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=05/06/28/1643256&tid=87

If you want full functionality for your buttons (to the extent that
they are functional without installing Windows-only
memory-resident control software), add these lines to your
xorg.conf file:

Option "Buttons" "7"
Option "ZAxisMapping" "6 7"

If one or both of these lines already exists, just verify that the
numbers are correct. Then create a file called .Xmodmap in your
user's home directory, and type this into it:

pointer = 1 2 3 6 7 4 5

Close all of your open programs, then restart the X server through
your desktop environment's menu or by pressing Ctrl-Alt-Backspace.
Log in again and you'll have the scroll wheel, scroll rocker, and
browser rocker buttons working.

All other advertised features of the Logitech MX1000 do not work in
GNU/Linux at this time.

Sounds like more than two buttons to me.

Awwww, looks like I'll save a little space on the "Windows-only
memory-resident control software."

By the way, you are confusing "modern hardware" with "Windows-only
drivers".

--
"We ... come ... in ... ... ... peace!"

Jim · External Since: Apr 21, 2005 Posts: 996

Johan Lindquist came up with this when s/he headbutted the keyboard a moment
ago in comp.os.linux.advocacy:

> So anyway, it was like, 15:32 CEST Oct 03 2006, you know? Oh, and, yeah,
> Linonut was all like, "Duaccommodatedddr takin' a swig o' grog, Johan
Lindquist belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>
>>> Maintenance free, my ass, tho. Maybe in a cleanroom, but real
>>> people actually do have grease on their fingers and dust in the
>>> air. Seems Logitech forgot about that little detail when they
>>> decided against the easy-to-remove ring that locks the ball in
>>> place and now instead force you to take the entire cover off to
>>> clean it. Idiots.
>>
>> The ball on the Logitech Marble Mouse pops right out.
>
> Given the huge drawback that it's a mouse and not a trackball (at
> least the name suggests so), I'm not going to change no matter /how/
> many mouse ball jokes it tells once it's popped out.
>
> My point being that the Trackman Marble has gone from easy-maintenance
> to screwdriver-assisted delinting. Not a step forward, in my book.
>
My first adventure with a trackball was with a Logitech Trackman Explorer.
Fitted in the palm of the hand, and had easily accessible buttons. This had
the ring seal for the ball, which I discovered quite nicely accommodated a
flexible brush which cleaned lint off the ball as it travelled. Result:
clean ball (groan now) and smooth motion for a year before the rollers
needed cleaning.
--
-*- Linux: Because restarts are for upgrades.
-*- Some people are like Slinkies; they serve no specific purpose,
but they bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.
-*- Linux Desktops & Clustering Solutions -*- http://dotware.co.uk
-*- Registered Linux user #426308 -*- http://counter.li.org
-*- Microsoft XP is like a box of chocolates. You never know when the steel
bolts are going to spring out and plunge straight through both cheeks...
-*- We now return you to your regularly scheduled broadcast.
-*- Contemplating Knife -*- Which end do the bullets go in again?
-*- I can't wait to get to heaven and meet seventy virgins - I've yet to
meet *one* on *Earth*!
-*- For sale: one (1) Fender Phantom air guitar. £500 ONO
-*- For sale: one (1) Italian WWII bolt-action rifle. .303cal, never fired,
only dropped once. Offers.
-*- Hit every key to continue.
-*- "Thanks. What sort of candle is this?" "Um... Dee-nah-meetay. Must be
Italian."
-*- That's it. No more coffee for *that* man!

flatfish+++ · External Since: Dec 12, 2004 Posts: 2793

On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 18:14:39 -0500, Linonut wrote:

> After takin' a swig o' grog, flatfish+++ belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>
>> On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 20:20:29 -0400, Geico Caveman wrote:
>>
>>> Just purchased a Microsoft wireless optical mouse. Say what you will about
>>> Microsoft not being able to put together a professional OS with all their
>>> money and time they have spent on it, but they make the best mice. Finally
>>> caved in, got tired of numerous wired mice that broke every few weeks and
>>> went for my favorite Microsoft product - the mouse.
>>
>> Interesting.
>> My Logitech LASER mouse (balls are a thing of the past. Ask Roy) works
>> perfectly with Windows XP.
>>
>> All 5 buttons work and are easily assignable.
>> The tilt wheel works perfectly.
>>
>> Linux?
>>
>> I have the worlds most expensive 2 button mouse.
>>
>> Oh yea, I could spend hours editing xorg.conf and make it semi-work but
>> why?
>
> Hours? Minutes, at most.
>
>> Linux just isn't a good choice with modern hardware.
>
> Hey, if you want to spend $65 on a mouse, you can obviously afford
> Windows.
>
> You can get some of the functionality as is noted here:
>
> http://hardware.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=05/06/28/1643256&tid=87
>
> If you want full functionality for your buttons (to the extent that
> they are functional without installing Windows-only
> memory-resident control software), add these lines to your
> xorg.conf file:
>
> Option "Buttons" "7"
> Option "ZAxisMapping" "6 7"
>
> If one or both of these lines already exists, just verify that the
> numbers are correct. Then create a file called .Xmodmap in your
> user's home directory, and type this into it:
>
> pointer = 1 2 3 6 7 4 5
>
> Close all of your open programs, then restart the X server through
> your desktop environment's menu or by pressing Ctrl-Alt-Backspace.
> Log in again and you'll have the scroll wheel, scroll rocker, and
> browser rocker buttons working.
>
> All other advertised features of the Logitech MX1000 do not work in
> GNU/Linux at this time.
>
> Sounds like more than two buttons to me.
>
> Awwww, looks like I'll save a little space on the "Windows-only
> memory-resident control software."
>
> By the way, you are confusing "modern hardware" with "Windows-only
> drivers".

Modern hardware is modern hardware.
I didn't install the control programs, just the driver. ie: *.inf file.
And how do I assign functions to the various buttons?

Linonut · External Since: Mar 31, 2006 Posts: 3492

After takin' a swig o' grog, flatfish+++ belched out this bit o' wisdom:

> On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 18:14:39 -0500, Linonut wrote:
>
>> You can get some of the functionality as is noted here:
>>
>> http://hardware.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=05/06/28/1643256&tid=87
>>
>> If you want full functionality for your buttons (to the extent that
>> they are functional without installing Windows-only
>> memory-resident control software), add these lines to your
>> xorg.conf file:
>>
>> Option "Buttons" "7"
>> Option "ZAxisMapping" "6 7"
>>
>> If one or both of these lines already exists, just verify that the
>> numbers are correct. Then create a file called .Xmodmap in your
>> user's home directory, and type this into it:
>>
>> pointer = 1 2 3 6 7 4 5
>>
>> Close all of your open programs, then restart the X server through
>> your desktop environment's menu or by pressing Ctrl-Alt-Backspace.
>> Log in again and you'll have the scroll wheel, scroll rocker, and
>> browser rocker buttons working.
>>
>> All other advertised features of the Logitech MX1000 do not work in
>> GNU/Linux at this time.
>>
>> Sounds like more than two buttons to me.
>>
>> Awwww, looks like I'll save a little space on the "Windows-only
>> memory-resident control software."
>>
>> By the way, you are confusing "modern hardware" with "Windows-only
>> drivers".
>
> Modern hardware is modern hardware.

Modern has little to do with it. It is simply a company piling on
features and only allowing the coders the money to write Windows
drivers.

> I didn't install the control programs, just the driver. ie: *.inf file.
> And how do I assign functions to the various buttons?

See what I just quoted above. As they say, you won't get all the
functions, since they are Windows hooks.

--
Speak softly and carry a cellular phone.

Sinister Midget · External Since: Jun 17, 2006 Posts: 746

On 2006-10-03, [H]omer <spam RemoveThis @uce.gov> posted something concerning:
> Sinister Midget wrote:
>
>> On the desktop I use a trackball. Logitech.
>
> Last time I used a trackball was when I used to play Missile Command in
> the '80s Smile

I like it because I don't have to move my hand around the desktop. It
was a little difficult for about 10 minutes. Then it was a piece of
cake.

If I could find a small enough one I'd stop using the wireless mice/
mouses/meeses on laptops and stick with trackballs completely.

I tried one of those MS trackballs. I guess I /could/ get used to one,
but why? That goofy ball sticking out on the left is harder to navigate
with when using a thumb than using an index or middle finger for one on
top. Plus they're gigantic.

--
Yesterday it worked.
Today it is not working.
Windows is like that.

Johan Lindquist · External Since: Mar 25, 2004 Posts: 522

So anyway, it was like, 20:41 CEST Oct 03 2006, you know? Oh, and, yeah,
Jim was all like, "Dude,

[..]

> flexible brush which cleaned lint off the ball as it travelled

Say, that /is/ a clever idea. Worth considering to spend any spare
round tuits one might have laying around on, for sure.

--
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana. Perth ---> *
22:12:17 up 2 days, 4:06, 3 users, load average: 0.15, 0.21, 0.08
Linux 2.6.18 x86_64 GNU/Linux Registered Linux user #261729

The Ghost In The Machine · External Since: Aug 04, 2005 Posts: 3878

In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Johan Lindquist
<spam.RemoveThis@smilfinken.net>
wrote
on Tue, 3 Oct 2006 22:14:56 +0200
<0vsav3-f7n.ln1.RemoveThis@news.smilfinken.net>:
> So anyway, it was like, 20:41 CEST Oct 03 2006, you know? Oh, and, yeah,
> Jim was all like, "Dude,
>
> [..]
>
>> flexible brush which cleaned lint off the ball as it travelled
>
> Say, that /is/ a clever idea. Worth considering to spend any spare
> round tuits one might have laying around on, for sure.
>

Considering optical mice are cheap this sort of invention is probably
now an anachronism. Smile

Then again, it's not quite the same as my
trackball. Smile

--
#191, ewill3.RemoveThis@earthlink.net
Useless C++ Programming Idea #11823822:
signal(SIGKILL, catchkill);