Linux + (Telstra) broadband services?

Anthony Irwin · External Since: Jan 18, 2007 Posts: 21

Felix Karpfen wrote:
> On Wed, 02 May 2007 12:00:35 +1000, Anthony Irwin wrote
> (<f18rc3$orl$1@news-01.bur.connect.com.au>):
>
>> Felix Karpfen wrote:
>>> I have just emerged from a 20-minutes <phone-call|sales-pitch> from
>>> Telstra on the savings achievable by signing up to its broadband
>>> service.
>> I would personally avoid all telecommunications companies for internet
>> access. They tend to provide you with really bad deals and if any
>> thing goes wrong you are on hold for ages just to speak to someone who
>> then does not know anything anyway.
>>
> Regrettably, this type of technical service is not restricted to
> telecommunications companies.
>
>> I would also avoid people like dodo, tpg etc basicly anyone who thinks
>> 500mb transfer or less is good for home users.
>
> I had a feeling that such speeds exploit consumer ignorance and do not
> justify an upgrade to broadband.
>

I meant the bandwidth usage. Many people advertise a low monthly few
but don't give users any where near the amount of bandwidth one needs.
Especially if they want to watch streaming movies, listen streaming
audio etc through youtube, myspace and other things that people tend
to use these days.

At home we tend to go through 300-500mb a day and thats just browsing
the net with no real downloads. Admittedly there are 3 to 4 people
using the connection but I imagine many home users would have similar
or higher usages.

--
Kind Regards,
Anthony Irwin

http://www.irwinresources.com
http://www.makehomebusiness.com
email: anthony at above domains, - www.

Addinall · External Since: Jun 26, 2005 Posts: 8

"Roger Brown" <roger2.RemoveThis@rogerbrown.no-ip.org> wrote in message
news:20070427081937.2a2170c4@rtb...
> On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:16:17 +1000
> Felix Karpfen <felixk.RemoveThis@webone.com.au> wrote:
>
>> I believe that this may be the missing link. But I remain confused
>> about the capability of the existing cables to handle high-speed
>> transmissions. I thought that optical fibres were needed and these
>> are a future dream.
>
> ADSL can provide up to 8 MB/sec - Telstra has been artificially
> throttling ADSL capacity for years and has only recently enabled this
> higher speed.
>
> Whether you will actually get 8Mb/sec will depend on your distance from
> the exchange - you may get lower, especially if you are more than 2km
> away.
>
> ADSL2 can provide up to 24 MB/sec bit

I'm getting 1.8 on mine tonight! Crept all the way up
to 4 yesterday....

Mark Addinall.

> again this is distance dependent
> - once you get outside 1km from the exchange your line speeds falls away
> - quite quickly once you get outside 2km. Telstra provides this but
> currently ONLY to match the competition where another ISP has already
> installed its own equipment to provide the same service.
>
> The broadband choice site can tell you what is or is not enabled at
> your exchange. See http://bc.whirlpool.net.au/
>
> Do a Google search on 'ADSL speed calculator' or have a browse around
> the Whirlpool forums for more information.
>
> --
> Roger Brown
> roger2.RemoveThis@rogerbrown.no-ip.org
> http://rogerbrown.no-ip.org
>
> There are more things in heaven and earth,
> Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
> -- Wm. Shakespeare, "Hamlet"

Chris Wilkinson · External Since: Dec 13, 2006 Posts: 24

Hi there,

Felix Karpfen wrote:
> I have just emerged from a 20-minutes <phone-call|sales-pitch> from
> Telstra on the savings achievable by signing up to its broadband
> service.
>
> The poor bunny, who was given this job (and the supervisor, whom she
> had to consult every few minutes), had not even heard of Linux till I
> mentioned it. I therefore thought it worth a posting to this NG to check
> on some of her assertions. These include that:
>
> 1. Telstra's high speed ADSL is currently available to 98% of Australian
> households (I found this difficult to reconcile with the reported ALP
> proposal to raid the Superannuation fund in order to give Australian
> business the communication network needed to remain competitive);

Forget their definition of high-speed. Consider your current speed,
then think what you'd like to have. Consider *that* to be high speed.

> 2. The fact the my current ISP does not offer high-speed ADSL services in
> my area does not mean that Telstra cannot offer such services in my
> area; and

Search for their ADSL availability test page. That will tell you.
Here is TPG's test page - put your phone number in and it will tell
you in a flash what you can get...

http://www.tpg.com.au/products_services/adsl2plus_pricing.php

> 3. Telstra's high-speed ADSL does not work with Linux.

Yes it does. So long as you have ethernet on your PC and your
ADSL device you'll be fine. Only thing they will not help with
is setting Linux up to connect - for that you may need to call
the aus.computers.linux online "helpdesk"... Smile

> I would welcome informed comments on these assertions.
>
> Felix Karpfen
>

--
Kind regards,

Chris Wilkinson, Brisbane, Australia.
"Maybe politicians should ask the people whether
or not they wanted all these wars"...

David Segall · External Since: Jan 09, 2007 Posts: 7

Chris Wilkinson <spammers.and.RemoveThis@lowlife.crossposters.sodoff> wrote:

>Felix Karpfen wrote:

>> 3. Telstra's high-speed ADSL does not work with Linux.
>
>Yes it does. So long as you have ethernet on your PC and your
>ADSL device you'll be fine.
Elsewhere in this thread I agreed with this. Now I am very doubtful.
The week end before last Bigpond did an upgrade that caused my SMTP
client, Thunderbird, to fail. When I tried to email them via the
"Contact us" pages of their web site Firefox returned an error so I
could not use it to get help. I am actually using XP, not Linux, so I
could use Internet Explorer to contact support. They referred me to
<http://my.bigpond.com/internetplans/broadband/cable/sysreq/default.jsp>
and said that "You can use other browsers to access the
web site, however some functions and features may be disabled".

Yes, you can use Linux to connect to the Internet via Bigpond but you
may not be able to access their web site or send or receive email.

I'm using Bigpond cable and I'm stuck with it because it provides
cheap high speed access. If you can obtain high-speed ADSL from a
Linux friendly ISP I would strongly recommend you avoid Telstra.

If you want a demonstration of Telstra's Linux support try this. Use
Firefox to navigate to <http://www.bigpond.com/>, put anything in the
Search box, select "Bigpond" to search and press Go. See, nothing
happens! In debug mode Firefox produces a list of errors including the
cause, the page and the line number. Telstra support responds “We
Don’t Care. We’re the Phone Company. We Don’t Have To”.

Roger Brown · External Since: Aug 24, 2006 Posts: 20

On Mon, 07 May 2007 22:42:02 +1000
Chris Wilkinson <spammers.and RemoveThis @lowlife.crossposters.sodoff> wrote:

> Search for their ADSL availability test page. That will tell you.
> Here is TPG's test page - put your phone number in and it will tell
> you in a flash what you can get...
>
> http://www.tpg.com.au/products_services/adsl2plus_pricing.php

No it will not. It will tell you whether ADSL2+ is enabled for your
exchange but it will NOT tell you what speed you might get. ADSL2 can
very from 24Megabits/sec (which virtually no-one gets) right down to
the lower end of ADSL1 speed depending on distance from the
exchange and line quality.

>
> > 3. Telstra's high-speed ADSL does not work with Linux.
> Yes it does. So long as you have ethernet on your PC

You're correct of course but your ISP's newsfeed must be in time warp.A
whole HEAP of people said the same thing in response to the original
question, weeks ago.

--
Roger Brown
roger2 RemoveThis @rogerbrown.no-ip.org
http://rogerbrown.no-ip.org

Q: How many Oregonians does it take to screw in a light bulb?
A: Three. One to screw in the light bulb and two to fend off
all those Californians trying to share the experience.

Roger Brown · External Since: Aug 24, 2006 Posts: 20

On Mon, 07 May 2007 15:38:49 GMT
David Segall <david.TakeThisOut@address.invalid> wrote:

> Yes, you can use Linux to connect to the Internet via Bigpond but you
> may not be able to access their web site or send or receive email.

The areas of concern you outline are certainly annoying but they are
nothing to do with Linux - they are browser compatibility issues which
apply equally to Windows.

Unless you are referring to webmail, I don't see why mail should be a
problem. Bigpond does use standard SMTP and POP3.

--
Roger Brown
roger2.TakeThisOut@rogerbrown.no-ip.org
http://rogerbrown.no-ip.org

A visit to a fresh place will bring strange work.

David Segall · External Since: Jan 09, 2007 Posts: 7

Roger Brown <roger2.TakeThisOut@rogerbrown.no-ip.org> wrote:

>On Mon, 07 May 2007 15:38:49 GMT
>David Segall <david.TakeThisOut@address.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Yes, you can use Linux to connect to the Internet via Bigpond but you
>> may not be able to access their web site or send or receive email.
>
>The areas of concern you outline are certainly annoying but they are
>nothing to do with Linux - they are browser compatibility issues which
>apply equally to Windows.
True, but Windows users can solve the problem by using Internet
Explorer to communicate with Bigpond even if that is not their usual
browser. Linux users do not have that option and will need to spend
ages on the telephone waiting for Telstra to tell them that there is
no help available because they are not using Microsoft or Apple
software.
>
>Unless you are referring to webmail, I don't see why mail should be a
>problem. Bigpond does use standard SMTP and POP3.
I believe Bigpond uses Microsoft SMTP and POP3 servers. They should be
standard but Telstra do not care if they break standard clients as
long as they work with "supported" clients. I cannot reliably send an
email using Thunderbird although I have not changed my configuration.
I believe the problem was caused by an "upgrade" to their SMTP server
the weekend before last but I have no way of proving that and Bigpond
is not interested because I am not using a Microsoft or Apple SMTP
client.

Roger Brown · External Since: Aug 24, 2006 Posts: 20

On Mon, 07 May 2007 16:56:01 GMT
David Segall <david DeleteThis @address.invalid> wrote:

> True, but Windows users can solve the problem by using Internet
> Explorer to communicate with Bigpond even if that is not their usual
> browser. Linux users do not have that option and will need to spend
> ages on the telephone waiting for Telstra to tell them that there is
> no help available because they are not using Microsoft or Apple
> software.

It's many years since I was a BigPond customer and that was ADSL (when
BigPond was the ONLY way you could get ADSL). But I always used the
Opera browser and managed OK.

I can get to the public BigPond pages perfectly well (including, for
example, their service status page but I do acknowledge the private
member pages may be quite another matter.

> >Unless you are referring to webmail, I don't see why mail should be a
> >problem. Bigpond does use standard SMTP and POP3.
> I believe Bigpond uses Microsoft SMTP and POP3 servers. They should be
> standard but Telstra do not care if they break standard clients as
> long as they work with "supported" clients. I cannot reliably send an
> email using Thunderbird although I have not changed my configuration.
> I believe the problem was caused by an "upgrade" to their SMTP server
> the weekend before last but I have no way of proving that and Bigpond
> is not interested because I am not using a Microsoft or Apple SMTP
> client.

Telstra's email services have always been dodgy - I use my own email
server and I started that practice largely because of the unreliability
when I was with BigPond. And they got even worse after I left.

That being said, I see no reports of mail difficulties on the
BigPond Whirlpool forums - have you checked their internal newsgroup?
SMTP servers don't usually discriminate - in fact they don't know what
sort of client they are talking to.

I'm not downplaying the difficulties. I simply want to make the point
- for the benefit of potential Linux users - that the problem is poor
Telstra service NOT Linux.

--
Roger Brown
roger2 DeleteThis @rogerbrown.no-ip.org
http://rogerbrown.no-ip.org

This night methinks is but the daylight sick.
-- William Shakespeare, "The Merchant of Venice"

Peter D. · External Since: Dec 06, 2006 Posts: 71

David Segall wrote:

> Roger Brown <roger2.RemoveThis@rogerbrown.no-ip.org> wrote:

[snip]
>>The areas of concern you outline are certainly annoying but they are
>>nothing to do with Linux - they are browser compatibility issues which
>>apply equally to Windows.
> True, but Windows users can solve the problem by using Internet
> Explorer to communicate with Bigpond even if that is not their usual
> browser. Linux users do not have that option and will need to spend
> ages on the telephone waiting for Telstra to tell them that there is
> no help available because they are not using Microsoft or Apple
> software.
[snip]

I seem to remember something about Mozilla evangelists, go to
Firefox's Help menu and click on Report Broken Web Site and
maybe a bunch of people will complain to Telstra on your behalf.

--
sig goes here...
Peter D.

Chris Wilkinson · External Since: Dec 13, 2006 Posts: 24

Hi there,

David Segall wrote:
> Chris Wilkinson <spammers.and.RemoveThis@lowlife.crossposters.sodoff> wrote:
>
>
>>Felix Karpfen wrote:
>
>
>>>3. Telstra's high-speed ADSL does not work with Linux.
>>
>>Yes it does. So long as you have ethernet on your PC and your
>>ADSL device you'll be fine.
>
> Elsewhere in this thread I agreed with this. Now I am very doubtful.
> The week end before last Bigpond did an upgrade that caused my SMTP
> client, Thunderbird, to fail. When I tried to email them via the
> "Contact us" pages of their web site Firefox returned an error so I
> could not use it to get help. I am actually using XP, not Linux, so I
> could use Internet Explorer to contact support. They referred me to
> <http://my.bigpond.com/internetplans/broadband/cable/sysreq/default.jsp>
> and said that "You can use other browsers to access the
> web site, however some functions and features may be disabled".
>
> Yes, you can use Linux to connect to the Internet via Bigpond but you
> may not be able to access their web site or send or receive email.

I had a situation where Netscape 7.2 in SuSE Linux would not work
on www.careerone.com.au. I found that Konqueror would allow that
site to work if browser ID was set to 'IE6'. 1 nasty email to the
careerone webmin followed, as that meant the site was only checking
to see if the client was IE or not, and didn't actually require IE
for full functionality. After denying my claims of unneeded browser
ID checks they folded, and had the site updated and allowing my
preferred Netscape to interact properly with it.

It might be worth getting up them about it. If you can try to load
and use the site with Konqueror, and change its browser ID to IE6,
to confirm if non-IE browsers can use it.

--
Kind regards,

Chris Wilkinson, Brisbane, Australia.
"Maybe politicians should ask the people whether
or not they wanted all these wars"...

Chris Wilkinson · External Since: Dec 13, 2006 Posts: 24

Hi there,

Roger Brown wrote:
> On Mon, 07 May 2007 22:42:02 +1000
> Chris Wilkinson <spammers.and.DeleteThis@lowlife.crossposters.sodoff> wrote:
>
>
>>Search for their ADSL availability test page. That will tell you.
>>Here is TPG's test page - put your phone number in and it will tell
>>you in a flash what you can get...
>>
>>http://www.tpg.com.au/products_services/adsl2plus_pricing.php
>
> No it will not. It will tell you whether ADSL2+ is enabled for your
> exchange but it will NOT tell you what speed you might get. ADSL2 can
> very from 24Megabits/sec (which virtually no-one gets) right down to
> the lower end of ADSL1 speed depending on distance from the
> exchange and line quality.

Thats what I meant. Lengthy explanations are not my forte when I'm
posting tired... Smile

>>>3. Telstra's high-speed ADSL does not work with Linux.
>>
>>Yes it does. So long as you have ethernet on your PC
>
> You're correct of course but your ISP's newsfeed must be in time warp.A
> whole HEAP of people said the same thing in response to the original
> question, weeks ago.

No, thats just me not seeing when the OP first got posted. Again I
should only do usenet when I've had enough sleep... Smile

--
Kind regards,

Chris Wilkinson, Brisbane, Australia.
"Maybe politicians should ask the people whether
or not they wanted all these wars"...

Roger Brown · External Since: Aug 24, 2006 Posts: 20

On Wed, 09 May 2007 19:39:26 +1000
Chris Wilkinson <spammers.and.TakeThisOut@lowlife.crossposters.sodoff> wrote:

> No, thats just me not seeing when the OP first got posted. Again I
> should only do usenet when I've had enough sleep... Smile

And that was me giving you the way of getting out gracefully Smile

I wasn't looking to nit pick incidentally - it's just that there's such
a big gap between the hype and reality of ADSL2 and its important that
potential users are left in no possible doubt.

--
Roger Brown
roger2.TakeThisOut@rogerbrown.no-ip.org
http://rogerbrown.no-ip.org

Conscience doth make cowards of us all.
-- Shakespeare

Anthony Irwin · External Since: Jan 18, 2007 Posts: 21

Chris Wilkinson wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> David Segall wrote:

> It might be worth getting up them about it. If you can try to load
> and use the site with Konqueror, and change its browser ID to IE6,
> to confirm if non-IE browsers can use it.
>

Hi,

There is also a firefox plugin called user agent switcher that will
allow you to do the same thing.

--
Kind Regards,
Anthony Irwin

http://www.irwinresources.com
http://www.makehomebusiness.com
email: anthony at above domains, - www.

Chris Wilkinson · External Since: Dec 13, 2006 Posts: 24

Hi there,

Anthony Irwin wrote:
> Chris Wilkinson wrote:
>
>> Hi there,
>>
>> David Segall wrote:
>
>> It might be worth getting up them about it. If you can try to load
>> and use the site with Konqueror, and change its browser ID to IE6,
>> to confirm if non-IE browsers can use it.
>
> Hi,
>
> There is also a firefox plugin called user agent switcher that will
> allow you to do the same thing.

Neat. I wonder if it works with just Firefox, or with all gecko
based browsers? It's one thing for Netscape I think would also
be a cool addition.

--
Kind regards,

Chris Wilkinson, Brisbane, Australia.
"Maybe politicians should ask the people whether
or not they wanted all these wars"...

shylo hana · External Since: May 24, 2007 Posts: 2

what distro are you using?
what modem are we talking about?

the d-link modems i've been dealing with (DLink DSL-502T) don't like IPv6.
switch off IPv6 modules and you'll probably find it'll connect just fine

"Felix Karpfen" <felixk.RemoveThis@webone.com.au> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.04.24.05.57.27.896395@webone.com.au...
>I have just emerged from a 20-minutes <phone-call|sales-pitch> from
> Telstra on the savings achievable by signing up to its broadband
> service.
>
> The poor bunny, who was given this job (and the supervisor, whom she
> had to consult every few minutes), had not even heard of Linux till I
> mentioned it. I therefore thought it worth a posting to this NG to check
> on some of her assertions. These include that:
>
> 1. Telstra's high speed ADSL is currently available to 98% of Australian
> households (I found this difficult to reconcile with the reported ALP
> proposal to raid the Superannuation fund in order to give Australian
> business the communication network needed to remain competitive);
>
> 2. The fact the my current ISP does not offer high-speed ADSL services in
> my area does not mean that Telstra cannot offer such services in my
> area; and
>
> 3. Telstra's high-speed ADSL does not work with Linux.
>
> I would welcome informed comments on these assertions.
>
> Felix Karpfen
>
> --
> Felix Karpfen
> Public Key 72FDF9DF (DH/DSA)
>
>

Dan N · External Since: May 04, 2007 Posts: 19

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:47:25 +1000, Roger Brown wrote:

> But most ADSL modems sold these days
> actually incorporate a router and are operating system independent.

My Dlink router, and I assume many others, actually uses embedded linux.

Dan

David Segall · External Since: Jan 09, 2007 Posts: 7

Dan N <dan.RemoveThis@localhost.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:47:25 +1000, Roger Brown wrote:
>
>
>> But most ADSL modems sold these days
>> actually incorporate a router and are operating system independent.
>
>My Dlink router, and I assume many others, actually uses embedded linux.
True, but that does not mean that you can use Bigpond with Linux. Last
time I tried to send an email to Bigpond via their web site I could
not do so using Firefox. I just checked and the home page
http://www.bigpond.com/default.asp gives 11 errors and it is not
possible to search the Telstra site using Firefox, the world's second
most popular browser. If Linux (or your router) fails then Bigpond
will refuse to help you even if it is clearly a Bigpond error.

Doug Laidlaw · External Since: Apr 12, 2007 Posts: 46

David Segall wrote:

> Dan N <dan RemoveThis @localhost.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:47:25 +1000, Roger Brown wrote:
>>
>>
>>> But most ADSL modems sold these days
>>> actually incorporate a router and are operating system independent.
>>
>>My Dlink router, and I assume many others, actually uses embedded linux.
> True, but that does not mean that you can use Bigpond with Linux. Last
> time I tried to send an email to Bigpond via their web site I could
> not do so using Firefox. I just checked and the home page
> http://www.bigpond.com/default.asp gives 11 errors and it is not
> possible to search the Telstra site using Firefox, the world's second
> most popular browser. If Linux (or your router) fails then Bigpond
> will refuse to help you even if it is clearly a Bigpond error.

It depends on what you mean by "use Bigpond". Telstra provides the ADSL. I
lost connection the other day. The connection was there, but something had
gone wrong with the handshaking - Telstra's responsibility. The rest of
the time I use PPPOE just as you would when using Bigpond.

If Bigpond choose to make their web site usable only via non-standard IE
instead of making it to w3c standard, that is not a Linux issue. You can
make IE run under Linux, e.g. using Wine. I am not saying that you should.
I think that the idea is that because IE is the most commonly used browser,
and is not W3C compliant, they must design their site to suit the majority,
who don't care about standards - they just want the thing to work! But it
is quite easy to design a Web site to suit any browser. The amount of
extra code is trivial. I have examples here. If they are using a Windows
server instead of Apache, I can understand. There will be a financial
inducement - somewhere.

The Australian Taxation Office requires you to use IE when downloading their
e-tax software, quoting "security", which requires you to use the embedded
browser!! Even if that has any truth to it, it is relevant only at the
stage of lodging your return on line, not while downloading a program.

Doug.
--
A friend is one who knows all about you but likes you just the same.
- W.G.P.

Addinall · External Since: Jun 26, 2005 Posts: 8

"Felix Karpfen" <felixk.RemoveThis@webone.com.au> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.04.24.05.57.27.896395@webone.com.au...
>I have just emerged from a 20-minutes <phone-call|sales-pitch> from
> Telstra on the savings achievable by signing up to its broadband
> service.
>
> The poor bunny, who was given this job (and the supervisor, whom she
> had to consult every few minutes), had not even heard of Linux till I
> mentioned it. I therefore thought it worth a posting to this NG to check
> on some of her assertions. These include that:
>
> 1. Telstra's high speed ADSL is currently available to 98% of Australian
> households (I found this difficult to reconcile with the reported ALP
> proposal to raid the Superannuation fund in order to give Australian
> business the communication network needed to remain competitive);

If you start at the definition of "It still does nothing", through xDSL,
then
Wireless, then Sat, they can get to 99.999% of Australia.

>
> 2. The fact the my current ISP does not offer high-speed ADSL services in
> my area does not mean that Telstra cannot offer such services in my
> area; and
>
> 3. Telstra's high-speed ADSL does not work with Linux.

Just plain wrong. The NOC Help Desk will not SUPPORT
Linux, any UNIX, anything on a LAN. All of these things work
however. I used it for years with all sorts of strange beasties.
And when I worked at Telstra up there in Creek street, the Linux
boxes on our desks worked just fine (apart from ODIN sometimes).

I just chucked a new Solaris 10 box on this net and it works out of the
box, as does Fedora 6.

Cheers,
Mark Addinall.

>
> I would welcome informed comments on these assertions.
>
> Felix Karpfen
>
> --
> Felix Karpfen
> Public Key 72FDF9DF (DH/DSA)
>
>

David Segall · External Since: Jan 09, 2007 Posts: 7

"Addinall" <addinall.DeleteThis@addinall.org> wrote:

>> 3. Telstra's high-speed ADSL does not work with Linux.
>
>Just plain wrong. The NOC Help Desk will not SUPPORT
>Linux, any UNIX, anything on a LAN. All of these things work
>however. I used it for years with all sorts of strange beasties.
>And when I worked at Telstra up there in Creek street, the Linux
>boxes on our desks worked just fine (apart from ODIN sometimes).
>
>I just chucked a new Solaris 10 box on this net and it works out of the
>box, as does Fedora 6.
>
Everything you say is true except your first sentence. If, as happened
to me recently, you cannot send email because of a problem with
Telstra's SMTP server and you cannot communicate with them because of
a different problem with their HTTP server I call that "does not
work". It happens that I was using Windows XP so by using Internet
Explorer I could send a message to Bigpond telling them that my email
was broken using Thunderbird and that their web site was broken using
Firefox. They responded that they did not care and, as you say, they
only support a few Microsoft and Apple products.

I can continue using Bigpond because I can use Outlook and Internet
Explorer when I must but a Linux user faces the real possibility that
their email client and/or their browser fails. In those circumstances
I think "will not SUPPORT" is indistinguishable from "does not work".