Erasing CD-RW with OpenSuse 10.2 and Gnome.....

Nick Kew · External Since: Jan 03, 2007 Posts: 13

On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 23:21:26 +0100
Nix <nix-razor-pit DeleteThis @esperi.org.uk> wrote:

> (sorry, burnt patches from long BSD/GPL arguments in my teens. They're
> still tender if prodded.)

Hmmm ... sounds good. To have grown up in the era of Free Software ...

GPLv2 - a work of genius
GPLv3 - a work of committee

--
Nick Kew

Application Development with Apache - the Apache Modules Book
http://www.apachetutor.org/

Joerg Schilling · External Since: Dec 18, 2006 Posts: 130

In article <slrnf8kuvq.5nv.pm.TakeThisOut@thinkpad.nowster.org.uk>,
Paul Martin <pm.TakeThisOut@zetnet.net> wrote:

>wodim is, for all intents and purposes, a good enough substitute for
>cdrecord. It has the same options and shares some of its history. If
>you have a mainstream CD writer less than five years old, you'll
>probably not even notice any differences (apart from the name).

This is of course wrong:

Wodim implements an idiosyncratic and higly inconsistent interface behind dev=.
This interface makes it hard to use wodim. wodim is at a similar state as
cdrecord has been 2 years ago (except that cdrecord does support DVD
writing since February 1998 and wodim does not):

- It implements a less user friendly CLI

- It only implements a very limited set of features with CD CUE sheet
support.

- It removed warning messages that help to find that there is a need
to have root provileges in order to do many things that are needed
for specific writing tasks and to implement vendor unique extensions
for many writers. As it is still based on cdrecord source code, it
silently hides the related funktionality from the user because it
claims to work non-root.

- It does not really support DVD writing. Some drives and media types
do not work at all, for other drives, wodim is slow or hangs when
fixating.

- It does not support to show DVD media information and disk manufacturer
informations.

- It does not support DVD-RAM

- IT does not support Blu Ray

>First find out what your CD-RW device is called by the system. If it's
>primary on the second IDE cable, it'll be /dev/hde. If it's on a SATA
>or SCSI bus it'll probably be /dev/scd0. You might like to see if
>there's a /dev/cdrw link set up by udev.
>
>If it's /dev/cdrw, then
>
>wodim blank=disc dev=/dev/cdrw
> will give you a full surface wipe

As cdrecord implements a user friendly CLI, just call

cdrecord blank=all -v

if you have only a single writer in your system.
Cdrecord will search for all drives and select one if it was the only
on the system.

Cdrecord is here:

ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/cdrecord/alpha/

--
EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
js.TakeThisOut@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni)
schilling.TakeThisOut@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily

Geoffrey Clements · External Since: Apr 06, 2004 Posts: 221

"Nix" <nix-razor-pit.DeleteThis@esperi.org.uk> wrote in message
news:877iphjfh5.fsf@hades.wkstn.nix...
> On 3 Jul 2007, Nick Kew told this:
>
>> On 03 Jul 2007 18:20:34 GMT
>> Paul Martin <pm.DeleteThis@zetnet.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> A simple test is: if wodim cannot borrow code from newer versions of
>>> cdrecord, cdrecord is not truly Free.
>>
>> So GPL code is not truly Free because BSD/MIT/Apache/etc can't borrow
>> from it?
>
> ARGH LET'S NOT START THIS FLAMEWAR ARGH ARGH
>

Agreed!

Especially as this thread was started by a newbie asking a fairly basic
question, I really hope he's still around and has sifted the good advice
from all this bickering.

--
Geoff

Joerg Schilling · External Since: Dec 18, 2006 Posts: 130

In article <873b05jfe1.fsf.DeleteThis@hades.wkstn.nix>,
Nix <$}xinix{$@esperi.org.uk> wrote:
>On 3 Jul 2007, Joerg Schilling verbalised:
>
>> In article <87myydjoz9.fsf.DeleteThis@hades.wkstn.nix>,
>> Nix <$}xinix{$@esperi.org.uk> wrote:
>>>On 3 Jul 2007, Joerg Schilling verbalised:
>>>> Yopu are wrong: wodim is a dead fork from cdrecord
>>>
>>>cdrkit, dead? I see dozens of commits in the last two months.
>>
>> How much is a dozen for you? ONE?
>
>22. Two dozen odd.

You should replace your keyboard, there is at least one key that bounces.....

There was one single and small change in cdrkit in the past 2 months and
another one that fixed some bugs in makefiles that cannot be found in the
original...

At the same time, when cdrkit did get 2 small changes, there have been
130 commits (affecting ~ 500 files) in the cdrtools project. Given the fact
that cdrtools is nearly 100x more actively enhanced than cdrkit and the
fact that cdrtools gets real enhancements, we may safely call "cdrkit"
a dead project.

--
EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
js.DeleteThis@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni)
schilling.DeleteThis@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily

Paul Martin · External Since: Sep 21, 2004 Posts: 173

This message is not archived

Paul Martin · External Since: Sep 21, 2004 Posts: 173

This message is not archived

Joerg Schilling · External Since: Dec 18, 2006 Posts: 130

In article <slrnf8ms2k.97i.pm DeleteThis @thinkpad.nowster.org.uk>,
Paul Martin <pm DeleteThis @zetnet.net> wrote:

Your reply is full of missunderstandings...

>> Wodim implements an idiosyncratic and higly inconsistent interface
>> behind dev=. This interface makes it hard to use wodim. wodim is at a
>> similar state as cdrecord has been 2 years ago (except that cdrecord
>> does support DVD writing since February 1998 and wodim does not):
>
>Smile. It's a fork. It inherits the ugliness of its ancestor... and for
>good reason -- see the next point.
>
>> - It implements a less user friendly CLI
>
>Of course it does! However, it will have been kept like that because
>front-end programs depend on it.

First missunderstanding: cdrecord did not change (but extend) iit's
CLI, so front-ends will continue to work. This is not true for wodim.

>> - It only implements a very limited set of features with CD CUE sheet
>> support.
>
>Irrelevant. We have cdrdao, which has much better CUE sheet support.

Incorrect: the CUE sheet support in cdrecord is much more complete than
the one you may find in cdrdao. Cdrdao is e.g. not able to write a SVCD
on a Pioneer drive as it does not support to write some important things
(CUE sheet based) in RAW mode.

Even for audio, cdrecord is able to deal with a lot more CUE sheets
than cdrdao is.

>> - It removed warning messages that help to find that there is a need
>> to have root provileges in order to do many things that are needed
>> for specific writing tasks and to implement vendor unique extensions
>> for many writers. As it is still based on cdrecord source code, it
>> silently hides the related funktionality from the user because it
>> claims to work non-root.
>
>Examples please. Assume that the user is running Linux 2.6.

My text is self explaining..... The original cdrecord warn if it does not
have the needed privileges and aborts as it later would believe that missing
features of the drive are causing the problems. The maintainer of wodim did
remove this important check and thus causes hard to track problems that
happen later.

>> - It does not really support DVD writing. Some drives and media types
>> do not work at all, for other drives, wodim is slow or hangs when
>> fixating.
>
>Not really relevant. If you want to write DVDs, growisofs is the better
>tool.

Incorrect: growisofs does other things than cdrecord does and I still
use cdrecord for all DVDs I write because cdrecord is closer to what I need.
Cdrecord also implements DVD based features that are missing in growisofs.
An important reason to prefer cdrecord is that you only need one application
for anything you like to do on 12cm plastic media Smile

>> - It does not support to show DVD media information and disk manufacturer
>> informations.
>
>I refer the honourable gentleman to the answer I gave some moments
>before.

This looks confused, please elaborate.

>> - It does not support DVD-RAM
>
>It doesn't have to. The kernel supports DVD-RAM natively. It's just
>another block device. If you want to identify the media, dvd+rw-tools
>has the programs.

See above: you use one single application for all similar media.

>> - IT does not support Blu Ray
>
>I can't give an answer from experience there, but I'll be willing to
>guess that Blu-ray and HD-DVD are very similar to DVDs in access.

You still need support in the software.

>For most people this is not a concern, as BD and HD-DVD writers are
>still very expensive, so few have them. Like I said, at the moment
>wodim is good enough for most people for the task it's most frequently
>used for -- burning a data CD-ROM on an MMC-compliant drive.

As wodim is not actively developed, this reveals a problem you will
have in the future if you use wodim.

--
EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
js DeleteThis @cs.tu-berlin.de (uni)
schilling DeleteThis @fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily

spike1 · External Since: Oct 06, 2004 Posts: 1611

Mark Austin <info.TakeThisOut@markjaustin.co.uk> did eloquently scribble:
> Geoffrey Clements" <geoffrey.clement....TakeThisOut@SPAMbaesystems.com> wrote:
>>
>> Especially as this thread was started by a newbie asking a fairly basic
>> question, I really hope he's still around and has sifted the good advice
>> from all this bickering.
>>
>> --
>> Geoff

> Yes I'm still around!! I've read all these comments and most of this
> GPL stuff means nothing to me!! I'm sure it will slot into place as
> time goes by! As for all your comments, thank you very much. I wasn't
> aware you could install KDE software on a Gnome system. However, as
> I'm trying to get to grips with linux I will try to use the terminal
> option first. Sorry if I've created some kind of dispute in the
> process!

Don't worry, it's not your fault.
It's just sour grapes from the author of cdrecord because someone had the
audacity to fork it after he decided to change the license and people
disagreed. He often pokes his head round the door to slag off the
fork whenever the subject comes up.

I would highly recommend you try k3b though, the command line for writing
cds isn't exactly easy, expecially for a newbie. K3B will make you feel
right at home straight away.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| spike1.TakeThisOut@freenet.co.uk | Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell BSc(hons)| operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| in |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Geoffrey Clements · External Since: Apr 06, 2004 Posts: 221

"Mark Austin" <info.TakeThisOut@markjaustin.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1183555777.739502.205940@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> Geoffrey Clements" <geoffrey.clement....TakeThisOut@SPAMbaesystems.com> wrote:
>>
>> Especially as this thread was started by a newbie asking a fairly basic
>> question, I really hope he's still around and has sifted the good advice
>> from all this bickering.
>>
>> --
>> Geoff
>
> Yes I'm still around!! I've read all these comments and most of this

I'm glad to hear it, please don't let this licence war put you off.

> GPL stuff means nothing to me!! I'm sure it will slot into place as
> time goes by! As for all your comments, thank you very much. I wasn't
> aware you could install KDE software on a Gnome system. However, as

Yes - providing you have the correct libraries installed you can run apps
designed for both desktops. Your distribution package manager should ensure
the correct dependencies are met.

> I'm trying to get to grips with linux I will try to use the terminal
> option first. Sorry if I've created some kind of dispute in the
> process!
>

You've stumbled onto one of the open sores (well if it has sores, open
software should have /open/ sores Smile

in open software to do with licensing.
As you say, it will mean more to you later. If you came from the Windows
world you only had one licensing model to worry about - Microsoft's, now you
have many. They are important to the development of free software but not
something you have to be too concerned about at the moment.

--
Geoff

Joerg Schilling · External Since: Dec 18, 2006 Posts: 130

In article <k6msl4-bmj.ln1.DeleteThis@ridcully.ntlworld.com>,
<spike1.DeleteThis@freenet.co.uk> wrote:

>It's just sour grapes from the author of cdrecord because someone had the
>audacity to fork it after he decided to change the license and people
>disagreed. He often pokes his head round the door to slag off the

You are uninformed - sorry.

While I received harsh and and personal offending mail from a small group
of people in Debian, I at the same time did receive many congratulations
and thanks from many different people who have been happy with the new free
license and the enhanced functionality.

It is of course sour grapes from the small group of agressive people who did
try to harm a OSS project by spreading incorrect claims.

With the time - when more people start to believe that the "fork" was just one
of many short living fireworks - even you will understand.

--
EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
js.DeleteThis@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni)
schilling.DeleteThis@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily