Debian Project Leader Elections 2007: Draft ballot

Manoj Srivastava · External Since: Dec 07, 2004 Posts: 761

Hi,

Given that this election has a record number of options,
making us move to using Hex instead of decimal numbers for ranking,
coupled with the fact that I'll be out of town all of next week, you
are getting to see the draft ballot earlier this year than is the
norm.

Please point any errors or omissions to me. Not, voting is not
yet open, this is just a draft.

manoj

======================================================================

Voting period starts 00:00:01 UTC on March 18th, 2007.
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC on April 7th, 2007.

This vote is being conducted as required by the Debian Constitution.
You may see the constitution at http://www.debian.org/devel/constitution.
For voting questions contact secretary.TakeThisOut@debian.org.

The details of the candidate platforms can be found at:
http://www.debian.org/vote/2007/platforms/

HOW TO VOTE

First, read the full text of the platforms and rebuttals.

Do not erase anything between the lines below and do not change the
choice names.

In the brackets next to your preferred choice, place a 1. Place a 2 in
the brackets next to your next choice. Continue till you reach your
last choice. If you have reached 9, and still have not finished, use
the letter A. Do not enter a number smaller than 1 or larger than 9,
or the letter A. You may skip numbers. You may rank options equally
(as long as all choices X you make fall in the range 0x1<= X <= 0xA).

Make sure you have read the platforms in detail.

To vote "no, no matter what" rank "None Of The Above" as more
desirable than the unacceptable choices, or you may rank the "None Of
The Above" choice, and leave choices you consider unacceptable
blank. Unranked choices are considered equally the least desired
choices, and ranked below all ranked choices. (Note: if the None Of
The Above choice is unranked, then it is equal to all other unranked
choices, if any -- no special consideration is given to the None Of
The Above choice by the voting software).

Then mail the ballot to: leader2007.TakeThisOut@vote.debian.org.
Don't worry about spacing of the columns or any quote characters
(">") that your reply inserts. NOTE: The vote must be GPG signed
(or PGP signed) with your key that is in the Debian keyring. You
may, at your option, also elect to send a signed, encrypted ballot.

- - -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
e0acebd2-71f1-4df8-ae4d-50355ad7aa81
[ ] Choice 1: Wouter Verhelst
[ ] Choice 2: Aigars Mahinovs
[ ] Choice 3: Gustavo Franco
[ ] Choice 4: Sven Luther
[ ] Choice 5: Sam Hocevar
[ ] Choice 6: Steve McIntyre
[ ] Choice 7: Raphaël Hertzog
[ ] Choice 8: Anthony Towns
[ ] Choice 9: Simon Richter
[ ] Choice A: None Of The Above
- - -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

----------------------------------------------------------------------

The responses to a valid vote shall be signed by the vote key created
for this vote. The public key for the vote, signed by the Project
secretary, is appended below.

-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
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=qZVb
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

--
"His great aim was to escape from civilization, and, as soon as he had
money, he went to Southern California."
Manoj Srivastava <srivasta.TakeThisOut@debian.org> <http://www.debian.org/~srivasta/>
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C

--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST.TakeThisOut@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster.TakeThisOut@lists.debian.org

Steve Langasek · External Since: Dec 13, 2004 Posts: 2140

On Fri, Mar 09, 2007 at 05:08:05PM -0700, Wesley J. Landaker wrote:
> On Friday 09 March 2007 16:18, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> > Given that this election has a record number of options,
> > making us move to using Hex instead of decimal numbers for ranking,
> ^^^
> > coupled with the fact that I'll be out of town all of next week, you
> > are getting to see the draft ballot earlier this year than is the
> > norm.

> Hmmm, decimal would have been quite a bit more straightforward and required
> a lot less of an explanation.

It would have meant handling multi-char vote values, necessitating changes
to all the reporting including the tally sheet and the vote
acknowledgements, each of which represent the individual ballot options as a
single character column.

> Along those lines, what are we going to do when/if we have more than 15
> choices on a ballot? It's not an unthinkable situation. Would we not call
> it hex, but continue the alphabet to use G-Z? Or would we enter choice
> number 17 as 11?

base64!

--
Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world.
vorlon RemoveThis @debian.org http://www.debian.org/

--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST RemoveThis @lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster RemoveThis @lists.debian.org

Manoj Srivastava · External Since: Dec 07, 2004 Posts: 761

On Fri, 9 Mar 2007 17:08:05 -0700, Wesley J Landaker <wjl DeleteThis @icecavern.net> said:

> On Friday 09 March 2007 16:18, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>> Given that this election has a record number of options, making us
>> move to using Hex instead of decimal numbers for ranking,
> ^^^
>> coupled with the fact that I'll be out of town all of next week,
>> you are getting to see the draft ballot earlier this year than is
>> the norm.

> Hmmm, decimal would have been quite a bit more straightforward and
> required a lot less of an explanation.

Frankly, if the explanation is too complex for the voter, I
really don't want the vote.

> Of course, no big deal for me or for Debian Developers in general,

Then this mail is just a pointless drive by criticism? At this
point, I am somewhat inclined to ignore the rest of the mail until I
can see some code.

> but I smell a kludge.

Which, in turn, tells me you have no idea of what you are
talking about.

> I don't object to hex (although I dislike prefix-less hex notation
> quite a bit in general), but this looks like it was chosen just to
> avoid having to parse more than one digit or something. Or was this
> actually thoroughly thought out and chosen for a different reason?

> Along those lines, what are we going to do when/if we have more than
> 15 choices on a ballot? It's not an unthinkable situation. Would we
> not call it hex, but continue the alphabet to use G-Z? Or would we
> enter choice number 17 as 11?

The last would be silly, and would lead us into the same
representational changes devotee is trying to avoid.

For those too lazy to look up the code, devotee actually works
in Base36 now.

manoj
getting irritated by the continuous, ongoing, unending, mindless
criticisms that seem to be all that the developer body can
generate. Whatever happened to providing code to demonstrate the
worthiness of ones solution?
--
You will be dead within a year.
Manoj Srivastava <srivasta DeleteThis @debian.org> <http://www.debian.org/~srivasta/>
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C

--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST DeleteThis @lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster DeleteThis @lists.debian.org

Manoj Srivastava · External Since: Dec 07, 2004 Posts: 761

On Fri, 9 Mar 2007 18:25:26 -0700, Wesley J Landaker <wjl.RemoveThis@icecavern.net> said:

> On Friday 09 March 2007 18:06, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>> On Fri, 9 Mar 2007 17:08:05 -0700, Wesley J Landaker
>> <wjl.RemoveThis@icecavern.net>
> said:
>> > I don't object to hex (although I dislike prefix-less hex
>> > notation quite a bit in general), but this looks like it was
>> > chosen just to avoid having to parse more than one digit or
>> > something. Or was this actually thoroughly thought out and chosen
>> > for a different reason?
>> >
>> > Along those lines, what are we going to do when/if we have more
>> > than 15 choices on a ballot? It's not an unthinkable
>> > situation. Would we not call it hex, but continue the alphabet to
>> > use G-Z? Or would we enter choice number 17 as 11?

"We" have done nothing about the >8 options so far as I can
see. Until "we" put in the work, "We" do not get to talk like we have
responsibility, or a say, in the decisions taken.

>> The last would be silly, and would lead us into the same
>> representational changes devotee is trying to avoid.
>>
>> For those too lazy to look up the code, devotee actually works in
>> Base36 now.

> Hey, you said "hex", not me. Base36 sounds much more reasonable.

Why complicate the ballot with Base36, instead of the far more
familiar hexadecimal numbers?

> Thanks for the all insults BTW, I have learned to always expect that
> from you.

Pot. kettle. The next time, try to either look at the code
you condescend to denigrate (kludge my foot), or take a more
reasonable tone. Saying that decimal would have been "more
straightforward" without understanding the ramifications thereof, or
condescendingly asking if design decisions "were actually thought
through" will buy you nothing but the ridicule such utterances
deserve.

If you are not putting up code, you don't get to
look down on work that has already been done -- and does the job.

manoj
--
Help stamp out and abolish redundancy and repetition.
Manoj Srivastava <srivasta.RemoveThis@debian.org> <http://www.debian.org/~srivasta/>
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C

--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST.RemoveThis@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster.RemoveThis@lists.debian.org

Marc Haber · External Since: Dec 31, 2005 Posts: 2

On Fri, Mar 09, 2007 at 07:06:18PM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> Frankly, if the explanation is too complex for the voter, I
> really don't want the vote.

Wher you want the vote or not is irrelevant. In my understanding of
the constitutions, even the dumbest DD is entitled to vote.

Or are we going to require an IQ test before people allowing to vote,
understanding the ballot being one of the test?

Greetings
Marc

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 621 72739834
Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 621 72739835

--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST DeleteThis @lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster DeleteThis @lists.debian.org

Yves-Alexis Perez · External Since: Jul 16, 2005 Posts: 541

On sam, 2007-03-10 at 11:04 +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
> Or are we going to require an IQ test before people allowing to vote,

It's called "Tasks & Skills" isn't it ?
--
Yves-Alexis

--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST.RemoveThis@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster.RemoveThis@lists.debian.org

MJ Ray · External Since: Jun 02, 2005 Posts: 273

Manoj Srivastava <srivasta.TakeThisOut@debian.org> wrote:
> Please point any errors or omissions to me. Not, voting is not
> yet open, this is just a draft.

I'm understanding this as a request to cc. Hope that's OK.

> [...] If you have reached 9, and still have not finished, use
> the letter A. Do not enter a number smaller than 1 or larger than 9,
> or the letter A. [...]

I think this could be simplified to:
After 9, use A. Do not enter a choice before 1 or after A.

> Make sure you have read the platforms in detail.

I suggest changing that to "Please read the platforms in detail."

[...]
> Don't worry about spacing of the columns or any quote characters
> (">") that your reply inserts. NOTE: The vote must be GPG signed
> (or PGP signed) with your key that is in the Debian keyring. You
> may, at your option, also elect to send a signed, encrypted ballot.

I'm think the last sentence is a bit unclear, so here's a few
suggested changes:

Don't worry about the spacing of columns or any quote characters
(">") that your reply inserts. NOTE: The vote must be GPG-signed
(or PGP-signed) with your key from the Debian keyring. You may,
if you wish, send a signed, encrypted ballot.

Hope that helps,
--
MJR/slef
My Opinion Only: see http://people.debian.org/~mjr/
Please follow http://www.uk.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct

--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST.TakeThisOut@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster.TakeThisOut@lists.debian.org

Bastian Venthur · External Since: Oct 25, 2006 Posts: 262

Am 10.03.2007 11:55 schrieb Yves-Alexis Perez:
> On sam, 2007-03-10 at 11:04 +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
>> Or are we going to require an IQ test before people allowing to vote,
>
> It's called "Tasks & Skills" isn't it ?

No it's not. And hiding the technical restrictions of our voting system
behind some elitism does not help.

There is by the way a reason behind the requirement that votes should be
as easy as possible to understand. I'm not saying that hex is too hard
to understand (at least not for me) but it's not as easy as possible and
should therefor not become a permanent solution.

Cheers,

Bastian

--
Bastian Venthur http://venthur.de
Debian Developer venthur at debian org

--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST DeleteThis @lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster DeleteThis @lists.debian.org

Manoj Srivastava · External Since: Dec 07, 2004 Posts: 761

Hi,
On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 11:08:57 +0000 (GMT), MJ Ray <mjr DeleteThis @phonecoop.coop>
said:

> I think this could be simplified to:
> After 9, use A. Do not enter a choice before 1 or after A.

[SNIP other helpful suggestions]

I have incorporated most of these suggestions, perhaps with
some modifications, into the new draft below.

manoj

======================================================================

Voting period starts 00:00:01 UTC on March 18th, 2007.
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC on April 7th, 2007.

This vote is being conducted as required by the Debian Constitution.
You may see the constitution at http://www.debian.org/devel/constitution.
For voting questions contact secretary DeleteThis @debian.org.

The details of the candidate platforms can be found at:
http://www.debian.org/vote/2007/platforms/

HOW TO VOTE

First, read the full text of the platforms and rebuttals.

Do not erase anything between the lines below and do not change the
choice names.

In the brackets next to your preferred choice, place a 1. Place a 2 in
the brackets next to your next choice. Continue till you reach your
last choice. After 9, use the letter A. Do not enter a number smaller
than 1 or larger than 9, or the letter A. You may skip numbers. You
may rank options equally (as long as all choices X you make fall in
the range 0x1 <= X <= 0xA).

Please read the platforms in detail.

To vote "no, no matter what" rank "None Of The Above" as more
desirable than the unacceptable choices, or you may rank the "None Of
The Above" choice, and leave choices you consider unacceptable
blank. Unranked choices are considered equally the least desired
choices, and ranked below all ranked choices. (Note: if the None Of
The Above choice is unranked, then it is equal to all other unranked
choices, if any -- no special consideration is given to the None Of
The Above choice by the voting software).

Then mail the ballot to: leader2007 DeleteThis @vote.debian.org.
Don't worry about spacing of the columns or any quote characters
(">") that your reply inserts. NOTE: The vote must be GPG signed
(or PGP signed) with your key that is in the Debian keyring. You
may, if you wish, choose to send a signed, encrypted ballot.

- - -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
e0acebd2-71f1-4df8-ae4d-50355ad7aa81
[ ] Choice 1: Wouter Verhelst
[ ] Choice 2: Aigars Mahinovs
[ ] Choice 3: Gustavo Franco
[ ] Choice 4: Sven Luther
[ ] Choice 5: Sam Hocevar
[ ] Choice 6: Steve McIntyre
[ ] Choice 7: Raphaël Hertzog
[ ] Choice 8: Anthony Towns
[ ] Choice 9: Simon Richter
[ ] Choice A: None Of The Above
- - -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

----------------------------------------------------------------------

The responses to a valid vote shall be signed by the vote key created
for this vote. The public key for the vote, signed by the Project
secretary, is appended below.

-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
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=qZVb
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

--
Successful and fortunate crime is called virtue. Seneca
Manoj Srivastava <srivasta DeleteThis @debian.org> <http://www.debian.org/~srivasta/>
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C

--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST DeleteThis @lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster DeleteThis @lists.debian.org

Mike Hommey · External Since: Nov 09, 2004 Posts: 966

On Sat, Mar 10, 2007 at 08:54:46AM -0600, Manoj Srivastava <srivasta DeleteThis @debian.org> wrote:
(...)
> last choice. After 9, use the letter A. Do not enter a number smaller
> than 1 or larger than 9, or the letter A.

"Do not enter (...) the letter A." ?!?

Mike

--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST DeleteThis @lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster DeleteThis @lists.debian.org

Wouter Verhelst · External Since: Nov 08, 2004 Posts: 611

On Sat, Mar 10, 2007 at 12:13:35PM +0100, Bastian Venthur wrote:
> There is by the way a reason behind the requirement that votes should be
> as easy as possible to understand. I'm not saying that hex is too hard
> to understand (at least not for me)

Let's put it this way: if there is anyone under our fellow developers
who does not know what hex is (and who is not able to look it up and/or
understand it when explained), I would second any request for their
explusion.

--
<Lo-lan-do> Home is where you have to wash the dishes.
-- #debian-devel, Freenode, 2004-09-22

--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST RemoveThis @lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster RemoveThis @lists.debian.org

John H. Robinson, IV · External Since: Mar 10, 2007 Posts: 4

Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>
> In the brackets next to your preferred choice, place a 1. Place a 2 in
> the brackets next to your next choice. Continue till you reach your
> last choice. If you have reached 9, and still have not finished, use
> the letter A. Do not enter a number smaller than 1 or larger than 9,
> or the letter A. You may skip numbers. You may rank options equally
> (as long as all choices X you make fall in the range 0x1<= X <= 0xA).

In the brackets next to your preferred choice, place an A. Place a B in
the brackets next to your next choice. Continue till you reach your last
choice. Do not enter a letter smaller than A or larger than J. You may
skip letters. You may rank options equally (as long as all choices X
you make fall in the range A <= X <= J).

--snip--

- - -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
e0acebd2-71f1-4df8-ae4d-50355ad7aa81
[ ] Choice A: Wouter Verhelst
[ ] Choice B: Aigars Mahinovs
[ ] Choice C: Gustavo Franco
[ ] Choice D: Sven Luther
[ ] Choice E: Sam Hocevar
[ ] Choice F: Steve McIntyre
[ ] Choice G: Rapha?l Hertzog
[ ] Choice H: Anthony Towns
[ ] Choice I: Simon Richter
[ ] Choice J: None Of The Above
- - -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

This change seems way too obvious to not be seen before. It removes all
conceivable confusion.

--
John H. Robinson, IV jaqque.TakeThisOut@sbih.org because jaqque.TakeThisOut@debian.org is broken.
http ((((
WARNING: I cannot be held responsible for the above, sbih.org ( )(:[
as apparently my cats have learned how to type. spiders.html ((((

--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST.TakeThisOut@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster.TakeThisOut@lists.debian.org

Josip Rodin · External Since: Aug 13, 2006 Posts: 82

On Sat, Mar 10, 2007 at 02:01:38PM -0800, John H. Robinson, IV wrote:
> > In the brackets next to your preferred choice, place a 1. Place a 2 in
> > the brackets next to your next choice. Continue till you reach your
> > last choice.
>
> In the brackets next to your preferred choice, place an A. Place a B in
> the brackets next to your next choice. Continue till you reach your last
> choice.
> [...]
> This change seems way too obvious to not be seen before. It removes all
> conceivable confusion.

Actually, I think that combining numbers/letters designating choices with
numbers/letters designating rankings is inherently confusing.
Choices shouldn't need to have a name or a letter designating them;
that's an internal variable that the voter doesn't care about.

As far as rankings are concerned, using 1, 2, 3, ... is a good default.
With over 26 candidates, the English alphabet runs out, so while it is
applicable here, it may not be suitable in larger votes.

OTOH, one could argue that 'lower is better' with those rank numbers is
not as intuitive as 'higher is better'.

While I'm at it, it would probably be fun to implement a 'higher is better'
ranking parser in a way to allow someone to vote for example
13-53-32-5-1-_-3-2-2-_-1. Yet, that would probably confuse voters if they
were comparing that vote with a vote like 12-24-23-7-2-1-5-3-3-1-2 -
because those two different votes would be considered equal in the eyes
of the parser script.

--
2. That which causes joy or happiness.

--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST RemoveThis @lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster RemoveThis @lists.debian.org

John H. Robinson, IV · External Since: Mar 10, 2007 Posts: 4

Josip Rodin wrote:
>
> While I'm at it, it would probably be fun to implement a 'higher is better'
> ranking parser in a way to allow someone to vote for example
> 13-53-32-5-1-_-3-2-2-_-1. Yet, that would probably confuse voters if they
> were comparing that vote with a vote like 12-24-23-7-2-1-5-3-3-1-2 -
> because those two different votes would be considered equal in the eyes
> of the parser script.

I like this idea, with the addition of the acknowledgement containing a
normalised vote.

13-53-32-5-1-_-3-2-2-_-1 => 6-8-7-5-2-1-4-3-3-1-2

12-24-23-7-2-1-5-3-3-1-2 => 6-8-7-5-2-1-4-3-3-1-2

--
John H. Robinson, IV jaqque.RemoveThis@sbih.org because jaqque.RemoveThis@debian.org is broken.
http ((((
WARNING: I cannot be held responsible for the above, sbih.org ( )(:[
as apparently my cats have learned how to type. spiders.html ((((

--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST.RemoveThis@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster.RemoveThis@lists.debian.org

Ian Jackson · External Since: Mar 01, 2005 Posts: 200

Manoj Srivastava writes ("Re: Debian Project Leader Elections 2007: Draft ballot"):
> [ ] Choice 1: Wouter Verhelst
....
> [ ] Choice A: None Of The Above

Would it be possible to use just letters, rather than both letters and
numbers ? That will make everything a little less confusing - in
particular it makes it impossible to mistake rankings for choices and
vice versa.

Could it be permitted rearrange the entries on the ballot ? It would
be much clearer to be able to vote:

[ 1 ] Choice B: Bob
[ 2 ] Choice A: Alice
[ 3 ] Choice Z: None Of The Above
[ 4 ] Choice C: Carol
...

Ideally it would be possible for the letters to be vaguely mnemonic:

[ ] Choice W: Wouter Verhelst
[ ] Choice A: Aigars Mahinovs
[ ] Choice G: Gustavo Franco
[ ] Choice L: Sven Luther
[ ] Choice H: Sam Hocevar
[ ] Choice M: Steve McIntyre
[ ] Choice R: Raphaël Hertzog
[ ] Choice A: Anthony Towns
[ ] Choice S: Simon Richter
[ ] Choice Z: None Of The Above

(or similar).

Ian.

Sven Luther · External Since: Mar 09, 2007 Posts: 24

On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 04:06:34PM +0000, Ian Jackson wrote:
> Manoj Srivastava writes ("Re: Debian Project Leader Elections 2007: Draft ballot"):
> > [ ] Choice 1: Wouter Verhelst
> ...
> > [ ] Choice A: None Of The Above
>
> Would it be possible to use just letters, rather than both letters and
> numbers ? That will make everything a little less confusing - in
> particular it makes it impossible to mistake rankings for choices and
> vice versa.
>
>
> Could it be permitted rearrange the entries on the ballot ? It would
> be much clearer to be able to vote:
>
> [ 1 ] Choice B: Bob
> [ 2 ] Choice A: Alice
> [ 3 ] Choice Z: None Of The Above
> [ 4 ] Choice C: Carol
> ...
>
>
> Ideally it would be possible for the letters to be vaguely mnemonic:
>
> [ ] Choice W: Wouter Verhelst
> [ ] Choice A: Aigars Mahinovs
> [ ] Choice G: Gustavo Franco
> [ ] Choice L: Sven Luther
> [ ] Choice H: Sam Hocevar
> [ ] Choice M: Steve McIntyre
> [ ] Choice R: Raphaël Hertzog
> [ ] Choice A: Anthony Towns
> [ ] Choice S: Simon Richter
> [ ] Choice Z: None Of The Above
>
> (or similar).

Ian, since i retired my candidature, this problematic became mooth, as we will
no more need to go beyond the 9 choices.

Friendly,

Sven Luther

--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST RemoveThis @lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster RemoveThis @lists.debian.org

John H. Robinson, IV · External Since: Mar 10, 2007 Posts: 4

Sven Luther wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 04:06:34PM +0000, Ian Jackson wrote:
> >
> > Would it be possible to use just letters, rather than both letters and
> > numbers ? That will make everything a little less confusing - in
> > particular it makes it impossible to mistake rankings for choices and
> > vice versa.
>
> Ian, since i retired my candidature, this problematic became mooth, as we will
> no more need to go beyond the 9 choices.

This time. What about for next time? Personally, I like Ian's
suggestion.

--
John H. Robinson, IV jaqque DeleteThis @sbih.org because jaqque DeleteThis @debian.org is broken
http ((((
WARNING: I cannot be held responsible for the above, sbih.org ( )(:[
as apparently my cats have learned how to type. spiders.html ((((

http://jaqque.sbih.org/debian/new_req.asc

--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST DeleteThis @lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster DeleteThis @lists.debian.org

Don Armstrong · External Since: Jan 24, 2005 Posts: 253

On Fri, 16 Mar 2007, Ian Jackson wrote:
> Could it be permitted rearrange the entries on the ballot ? It would
> be much clearer to be able to vote:
>
> [ 1 ] Choice B: Bob
> [ 2 ] Choice A: Alice
> [ 3 ] Choice Z: None Of The Above
> [ 4 ] Choice C: Carol

It's not clear to me how you'd express ranking options equally.

Don Armstrong

--
S: Make me a sandwich
B: What? Make it yourself.
S: sudo make me a sandwich
B: Okay.
-- xkcd http://xkcd.com/c149.html

http://www.donarmstrong.com http://rzlab.ucr.edu

--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST.RemoveThis@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster.RemoveThis@lists.debian.org

Manoj Srivastava · External Since: Dec 07, 2004 Posts: 761

On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 09:41:38 -0700, John H Robinson, IV <jaqque.RemoveThis@sbih.org> said:

> Josip Rodin wrote:
>>
>> While I'm at it, it would probably be fun to implement a 'higher is
>> better' ranking parser in a way to allow someone to vote for
>> example 13-53-32-5-1-_-3-2-2-_-1. Yet, that would probably confuse
>> voters if they were comparing that vote with a vote like
>> 12-24-23-7-2-1-5-3-3-1-2 - because those two different votes would
>> be considered equal in the eyes of the parser script.

> I like this idea, with the addition of the acknowledgement
> containing a normalised vote.

> 13-53-32-5-1-_-3-2-2-_-1 => 6-8-7-5-2-1-4-3-3-1-2

> 12-24-23-7-2-1-5-3-3-1-2 => 6-8-7-5-2-1-4-3-3-1-2

This is not something I am personally interested in doing. I
do think that ballot normalization is an interesting idea, though
again, not something I feel like coding.

manoj
--
The Devil can cite scripture for his purpose. Shakespeare, Merchant of
Venice
Manoj Srivastava <srivasta.RemoveThis@debian.org> <http://www.debian.org/~srivasta/>
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C

--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST.RemoveThis@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster.RemoveThis@lists.debian.org

Manoj Srivastava · External Since: Dec 07, 2004 Posts: 761

On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 16:06:34 +0000, Ian Jackson <ian RemoveThis @davenant.greenend.org.uk> said:

> Manoj Srivastava writes ("Re: Debian Project Leader Elections 2007:
> Draft ballot"):
>> [ ] Choice 1: Wouter Verhelst
> ...
>> [ ] Choice A: None Of The Above

> Would it be possible to use just letters, rather than both letters
> and numbers ? That will make everything a little less confusing -
> in particular it makes it impossible to mistake rankings for choices
> and vice versa.

Just don't think of 0xA as a latter, since it is not. Anyway,
internally devotee uses numbers starting at 1 for the ranking as well
as the options on the ballot. I am not personally interested in
changing any one of these defaults -- I don't think the ballot is
confusing enough to warrant the expenditure of effort to refactor it
in this fashion.

> Could it be permitted rearrange the entries on the ballot ? It
> would be much clearer to be able to vote:

The directive says do not delete any line in the ballot --
but reordering is fine, as long as each choice remains on a line by
itself. Changing the line itself, beyond adding a numerical rank
(base36 number, that is) in between the square brackets will
invalidate the ballot.

manoj
--
Anger is momentary madness. Horace
Manoj Srivastava <srivasta RemoveThis @debian.org> <http://www.debian.org/~srivasta/>
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C

--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-REQUEST RemoveThis @lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster RemoveThis @lists.debian.org