Computer with Debian preinstalled

Michael Bode · External Since: Jun 02, 2007 Posts: 2

Hi,

I'm planning to sell PCs with a preinstalled Debian system. This in
itself should not be problematic, I guess. But do I have to handle
sources? GPL section 3 requires me to either include all sources of
the installed GPL binaries or give a written offer to ship the sources
on CD/DVD/whatever media. Is that correct, or is it ok to say 'look,
it's Debian on that machine, go to debian.org for the sources'?

What are other people who sell PCs with preinstalled Debian doing?

Thanks in advance.

--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-legal-REQUEST DeleteThis @lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster DeleteThis @lists.debian.org

ajdlinux · External Since: May 27, 2007 Posts: 9

Hi,

On 6/2/07, Michael Bode <m.g.bode RemoveThis @web.de> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm planning to sell PCs with a preinstalled Debian system. This in
> itself should not be problematic, I guess. But do I have to handle
> sources? GPL section 3 requires me to either include all sources of
> the installed GPL binaries or give a written offer to ship the sources
> on CD/DVD/whatever media. Is that correct, or is it ok to say 'look,
> it's Debian on that machine, go to debian.org for the sources'?
>
> What are other people who sell PCs with preinstalled Debian doing?
>
> Thanks in advance.

I think the most practical solution would be to write an offer saying
"To obtain the source code for the software on your system, send $5 to
cover postage and media costs to Michael Bode, <insert address>. You
can also obtain the source code online... <list instructions for
downloading sources>."

Just saying 'download the sources' does not meet the requirements of
GPLv2. Writing an offer means that you won't have to worry about it
until someone actually requests it.
--
Andrew Donnellan
ajdlinuxATgmailDOTcom (primary) ajdlinuxATexemailDOTcomDOTau (secure)
http://andrewdonnellan.com http://ajdlinux.wordpress.com
ajdlinux RemoveThis @jabber.org.au hkp://subkeys.pgp.net 0x5D4C0C58
http://linux.org.au http://debian.org
Get free rewards - http://ezyrewards.com/?id=23484
Spammers only === ajdspambucket RemoveThis @exemail.com.au ===

--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-legal-REQUEST RemoveThis @lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster RemoveThis @lists.debian.org

Don Armstrong · External Since: Jan 24, 2005 Posts: 253

On Sat, 02 Jun 2007, Michael Bode wrote:
> I'm planning to sell PCs with a preinstalled Debian system. This in
> itself should not be problematic, I guess. But do I have to handle
> sources? GPL section 3 requires me to either include all sources of
> the installed GPL binaries or give a written offer to ship the sources
> on CD/DVD/whatever media. Is that correct, or is it ok to say 'look,
> it's Debian on that machine, go to debian.org for the sources'?
>
> What are other people who sell PCs with preinstalled Debian doing?

We can't really give you legal advice, but if I were you, I'd include
with the computer media containing the binary packages that you've
installed along with the corresponding source code. Alternatively, you
could just have the source code present on the machine itself if you
didn't provide media at all.

Using a written offer for source is also possible, but it means that
you have to keep around the source code for three years; by including
it with the computer, you can ship it and forget it. [This is one
reason why Debian has the source code for all of main on the same
servers that the binary packages are served from.]

Don Armstrong

--
Dropping non-free would set us back at least, what, 300 packages? It'd
take MONTHS to make up the difference, and meanwhile Debian users will
be fleeing to SLACKWARE.

And what about SHAREHOLDER VALUE?
-- Matt Zimmerman in <gYuD3D.A.ayC.nGB39@murphy>

http://www.donarmstrong.com http://rzlab.ucr.edu

--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-legal-REQUEST DeleteThis @lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster DeleteThis @lists.debian.org

Michael Bode · External Since: Jun 02, 2007 Posts: 2

Don Armstrong <don.TakeThisOut@debian.org> writes:

> We can't really give you legal advice, but if I were you, I'd include
> with the computer media containing the binary packages that you've
> installed along with the corresponding source code.

Ok, I will probably include a CD with the sources, because this is
going to be some kind of 'embedded' PC with a reduced (i.e. no typical
desktop) system and only a CF card and no hard disk or optical drive.

--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-legal-REQUEST.TakeThisOut@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster.TakeThisOut@lists.debian.org

Ben Finney · External Since: Jun 02, 2006 Posts: 125

Michael Bode <m.g.bode.DeleteThis@web.de> writes:

> Ok, I will probably include a CD with the sources, because this is
> going to be some kind of 'embedded' PC with a reduced (i.e. no
> typical desktop) system and only a CF card and no hard disk or
> optical drive.

That's the simplest way to satisfy the GPL unambiguously in that type
of distribution, yes. Good luck with your endeavour.

--
\ "I installed a skylight in my apartment. The people who live |
`\ above me are furious!" -- Steven Wright |
_o__) |
Ben Finney

--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-legal-REQUEST.DeleteThis@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster.DeleteThis@lists.debian.org

GMANE · External Since: Jun 09, 2007 Posts: 1

<ajdlinux.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> schrieb/wrote:
> I think the most practical solution would be to write an offer saying
> "To obtain the source code for the software on your system, send $5 to
> cover postage and media costs to Michael Bode, <insert address>. You
> can also obtain the source code online... <list instructions for
> downloading sources>."

> Just saying 'download the sources' does not meet the requirements of
> GPLv2. Writing an offer means that you won't have to worry about it
> until someone actually requests it.

That's a bad idea. What if the download site goes away after, say, 30
months and only then someone makes a request because he was unable to
download it from the net?

It you haven't wasted any thought on archiving the sources, you have a
reason to be worried then.

Claus

--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-legal-REQUEST.TakeThisOut@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster.TakeThisOut@lists.debian.org

Anthony W. Youngman · External Since: Nov 02, 2004 Posts: 26

In message <f3q5mr$7ud$1@online.de>, Michael Bode <m.g.bode RemoveThis @web.de>
writes
>Hi,
>
>I'm planning to sell PCs with a preinstalled Debian system. This in
>itself should not be problematic, I guess. But do I have to handle
>sources? GPL section 3 requires me to either include all sources of
>the installed GPL binaries or give a written offer to ship the sources
>on CD/DVD/whatever media. Is that correct, or is it ok to say 'look,
>it's Debian on that machine, go to debian.org for the sources'?
>
>What are other people who sell PCs with preinstalled Debian doing?
>
If you're selling PCs as a business, YOU CAN'T say "go to debian.org"
(or you might be able to but you're taking a massive risk!)

If I give a PC with Debian pre-installed to a friend, I can say "go to
Debian.org" because I'm covered by the non-commercial bit.

But if you're a business, then YOU are liable to provide the source. If
the download site goes away and you haven't made a copy, you're sunk.
You have legal obligations and you can't meet them. You're in deep
doodoo if someone calls you on them.

So you NEED to make a copy. And once you've done that, you might as well
burn a CD/DVD for every PC you sell. If you do that, then when they come
to you saying "I demand my copy of the source that the GPL says you have
to give me", you can say "you got it with the PC. If you've lost it,
tough luck". Not that I'd advise being that harsh to your customers, but
at least you can legally say "shove off" without being in breach of the
licence (good customer relations says you should say "okay, I'll burn
you another copy" Smile

Cheers,
Wol
--
Anthony W. Youngman - anthony RemoveThis @thewolery.demon.co.uk

--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-legal-REQUEST RemoveThis @lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster RemoveThis @lists.debian.org

cascardo · External Since: Apr 11, 2006 Posts: 14

On Fri, Jun 15, 2007 at 07:17:44PM +0100, Anthony W. Youngman wrote:
> If you're selling PCs as a business, YOU CAN'T say "go to debian.org"
> (or you might be able to but you're taking a massive risk!)
>
> If I give a PC with Debian pre-installed to a friend, I can say "go to
> Debian.org" because I'm covered by the non-commercial bit.

If you are talking about the GPLv2, I'll have to disagree. You are only
covered by clause 3c when you have received the promise for source code
as of 3b. But since Debian offers you access to copy the source code by
the same designated place as the binary you copied, it has distributed
you the source code as of 3a.

Some people usually mirror only binaries and they are distributing as of
3b. I still usually recommend these people to include sources. If they
do not have enough storage, they should remove some binaries. This way
they are protected.

That is the same recommendation you and some other people just did to
this case. If you can't provide source code whithin three years of last
distributing the binaries, you are in a bad situation.

> Cheers,
> Wol
> --
> Anthony W. Youngman - anthony.RemoveThis@thewolery.demon.co.uk

--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-legal-REQUEST.RemoveThis@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster.RemoveThis@lists.debian.org