Ban for debian-powerp on Sven Luther lifted.

Cord Beermann · External Since: Mar 17, 2005 Posts: 59

<20070722094408.GA14907@aragorn>
Organization: Debian - Listmaster
X-message-Flag: Outlook : A program to spread viri, but it can do mail too.

Hi.

We just lifted the ban on Sven Luther on this list.

Comments:

The Ban on d-project has been publical announced in
http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2007/05/msg00234.html I also
noted there that i hoped that this ban would be temporary.

After that some more things happened involving d-boot and d-private,
so listmasters decided to extend the ban to all lists and announced it
on d-private. (which was maybe wrong and we should have dropped a note
in d-project too)

As you might see in the Archive of d-project the name of Sven is still
causing irritations, so we now run the ban-lifting on a per request
basis and ask the users of the lists. (and d-powerpc isn't the first
list where we lifted the ban)

Even as the whole affair is unlucky, and asking on a technical list
about it is unappropriate, I can't understand why some people produce
mails like in
http://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2007/07/msg00091.html or
http://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2007/07/msg00099.html
these kind of responses aren't helpful in any way.

Yours,
Cord, Debian Listmaster of the day
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Sven Luther · External Since: May 27, 2007 Posts: 34

On Tue, Jul 24, 2007 at 10:43:01PM +0000, Cord Beermann wrote:
> <20070722094408.GA14907@aragorn>
> Organization: Debian - Listmaster
> X-message-Flag: Outlook : A program to spread viri, but it can do mail too.
>
> Hi.
>
> We just lifted the ban on Sven Luther on this list.

Thanks,

> Comments:
>
> The Ban on d-project has been publical announced in
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2007/05/msg00234.html I also
> noted there that i hoped that this ban would be temporary.
>
> After that some more things happened involving d-boot and d-private,
> so listmasters decided to extend the ban to all lists and announced it
> on d-private. (which was maybe wrong and we should have dropped a note
> in d-project too)
>
> As you might see in the Archive of d-project the name of Sven is still
> causing irritations, so we now run the ban-lifting on a per request
> basis and ask the users of the lists. (and d-powerpc isn't the first
> list where we lifted the ban)

Cord, i believe that the right thing would have been for the ban to
happen on those lists which where users requested it, and not on all
lists as it has been. The concept of censorship that debian used against
me is a very grave act, and one of shame and dishonor for debian.

> Even as the whole affair is unlucky, and asking on a technical list
> about it is unappropriate, I can't understand why some people produce
> mails like in
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2007/07/msg00091.html or
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2007/07/msg00099.html
> these kind of responses aren't helpful in any way.

Nothing in this mess has been helpful, and i can understand Børge
reaction, which is the kind of reaction debian deserves for engaging in
censorship and expulsion over a damn childish personal vendetta of a few
guys.

But anyway, thanks for lifting the ban, now, let's see if we can bring
the powerpc port in action again, despite the clear will of the d-i
leadership to kill it. I wanted to participate in this evenings d-i irc
meeting (http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Meetings/Coordination),
to discuss the status of the powerpc port, but the d-i folk rejected my
participation.

So, the revival of the powerpc port passes either by someone else taking
the d-i powerpc job, or by forking d-i on powerpc, which will be a mess,
or alternatively beet some sense in those d-i and debian folk who
believe expulsion and censorship is an acceptable behaviour, and forget
what we agreed to in the social contract, namely to put our users and
free software as our top priorities.

Friendly,

Sven Luther

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Ingo Juergensmann · External Since: Jan 22, 2007 Posts: 36

On Wed, Jul 25, 2007 at 12:57:34AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:

> > We just lifted the ban on Sven Luther on this list.
> Thanks,

Yes, great! Smile

> > As you might see in the Archive of d-project the name of Sven is still
> > causing irritations, so we now run the ban-lifting on a per request
> > basis and ask the users of the lists. (and d-powerpc isn't the first
> > list where we lifted the ban)
> Cord, i believe that the right thing would have been for the ban to
> happen on those lists which where users requested it, and not on all
> lists as it has been. The concept of censorship that debian used against
> me is a very grave act, and one of shame and dishonor for debian.
> > [...]
> Nothing in this mess has been helpful, and i can understand Børge
> reaction, which is the kind of reaction debian deserves for engaging in
> censorship and expulsion over a damn childish personal vendetta of a few
> guys.

But...
Sven, I think it would be better to let the story rest in peace and to go on
and look forward instead looking backward. Nobody can change what happened,
but it will make many things easier for you, when you don't look back in
anger and always pointing everyone to what happened to you.

> But anyway, thanks for lifting the ban, now, let's see if we can bring
> the powerpc port in action again, despite the clear will of the d-i
> leadership to kill it. I wanted to participate in this evenings d-i irc
> meeting (http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Meetings/Coordination),
> to discuss the status of the powerpc port, but the d-i folk rejected my
> participation.

Of course, everyone else should give you a fair chance either. Kicking you
out of an IRC meeting is not fair when you haven't complained about the past
so far. I hope that the d-i team stops its childish behaviour and becoming
interested in serious work and cooperation again.
>From my point of view, the PPC port was losing quality after your expulsion
from the d-i team and it would be worthwhile for the port to get you back
doing serious work again. Both parties involved should concentrate on the
work to do and not on personal sympathy/antipathy.
Let's up that everyone involved is professional enough to work together for
the sake of the PPC port!

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Sven Luther · External Since: May 27, 2007 Posts: 34

On Wed, Jul 25, 2007 at 07:57:18AM +0200, Ingo Juergensmann wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 25, 2007 at 12:57:34AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
>
> > > We just lifted the ban on Sven Luther on this list.
> > Thanks,
>
> Yes, great! Smile

>
> > > As you might see in the Archive of d-project the name of Sven is still
> > > causing irritations, so we now run the ban-lifting on a per request
> > > basis and ask the users of the lists. (and d-powerpc isn't the first
> > > list where we lifted the ban)
> > Cord, i believe that the right thing would have been for the ban to
> > happen on those lists which where users requested it, and not on all
> > lists as it has been. The concept of censorship that debian used against
> > me is a very grave act, and one of shame and dishonor for debian.
> > > [...]
> > Nothing in this mess has been helpful, and i can understand Børge
> > reaction, which is the kind of reaction debian deserves for engaging in
> > censorship and expulsion over a damn childish personal vendetta of a few
> > guys.
>
> But...
> Sven, I think it would be better to let the story rest in peace and to go on
> and look forward instead looking backward. Nobody can change what happened,
> but it will make many things easier for you, when you don't look back in
> anger and always pointing everyone to what happened to you.

Yes, but when i tried to do this, during my self imposed ban in
january/february for example, and tried to go forward helping organize
the FOSDEM booth, they chose the occasion to relaunch the expulsion
procedure. Or when i provided over 30 patches for powerpc despite the
constrants set upon me, as documented in the wiki pages, they removed my
right to upload my own .udeb providing packages.

I have tried this many times in the past, and they wouldn't let me.

> > But anyway, thanks for lifting the ban, now, let's see if we can bring
> > the powerpc port in action again, despite the clear will of the d-i
> > leadership to kill it. I wanted to participate in this evenings d-i irc
> > meeting (http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Meetings/Coordination),
> > to discuss the status of the powerpc port, but the d-i folk rejected my
> > participation.
>
> Of course, everyone else should give you a fair chance either. Kicking you
> out of an IRC meeting is not fair when you haven't complained about the past
> so far. I hope that the d-i team stops its childish behaviour and becoming
> interested in serious work and cooperation again.

Given that it was Frans Pop who started all this, that he was the one
asking for my expulsion from debian (which debian's leadership agreed
to), i have little hope. Already in the thread starting in :

http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2007/07/msg00323.html

they got criticized by others over the so called d-i leaderhsip acting
in a arrogant way and deciding unilateraly of things without consulting
the team. This is interesting, because it is one of the main complaint i
have against them, and which caused them to go in their witch-hunt
against me, since i was not "respectful" enough.

> >From my point of view, the PPC port was losing quality after your expulsion
> from the d-i team and it would be worthwhile for the port to get you back
> doing serious work again. Both parties involved should concentrate on the
> work to do and not on personal sympathy/antipathy.

I am all for this, i made numerous conciliation offers in this
direction, but to no avail. The other party, strong in his power
position, sees absolutely no interest in compromising, or putting the
work and debian and our users before personal feud. And the way they
fighted me has hurt me in more ways than one.

> Let's up that everyone involved is professional enough to work together for
> the sake of the PPC port!

As said, i don't believe in this. Debian has proven that it cares more
about the d-i leadership vendeta than professionalism and technical
points, especially as they expulsed me on Frans request, without even
giving me a chance to discuss it.

I see only a few alternatives, but will provide them in another
fresh thread.

Friendly,

Sven Luther

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Cord Beermann · External Since: Mar 17, 2005 Posts: 59

Hallo! Du (Sven Luther) hast geschrieben:

> Given that it was Frans Pop who started all this, that he was the one
> asking for my expulsion from debian (which debian's leadership agreed
> to), i have little hope. Already in the thread starting in :
>
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2007/07/msg00323.html

Sven, i'm close to cursing you. Frans left the project (who was btw the
most active listmaster for the archives), why keep picking on him?

I told you (and publically) that i am really unhappy with this whole
affair, i also tried to be neutral, but each time you spoiled it.

Why can't you just take the lift as it is, and use it to bring this
port forward?

Cord

PS: please don't answer rhetorical questions. thank you.

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benoar · External Since: Jul 25, 2007 Posts: 1

Selon Sven Luther <sven.DeleteThis@powerlinux.fr>:

> On Wed, Jul 25, 2007 at 07:57:18AM +0200, Ingo Juergensmann wrote:
> > But...
> > Sven, I think it would be better to let the story rest in peace and to go on
> > and look forward instead looking backward. Nobody can change what happened,
> > but it will make many things easier for you, when you don't look back in
> > anger and always pointing everyone to what happened to you.
>
> Yes, but when i tried to do this, during my self imposed ban in
> january/february for example, and tried to go forward helping organize
> the FOSDEM booth, they chose the occasion to relaunch the expulsion
> procedure. Or when i provided over 30 patches for powerpc despite the
> constrants set upon me, as documented in the wiki pages, they removed my
> right to upload my own .udeb providing packages.
>
> I have tried this many times in the past, and they wouldn't let me.

I think that what everyone is trying to explain you is that this is not by
always telling the same story on different mailing lists that you will solve
this problem. I understand that you can't let this go as if nothing happened,
because there have been mistakes from both sides, and that you have been the
only one to be punished, and this is not fair.

If this is a problem with Frans Pop or anyone else, why don't you talk with him
? Because he doesn't want to ? So, what's the point of telling it to every
Debian user ? What could we do to that, as simple Debian user ? Launch a
petition ? Start a revolution ? Fork Debian ? The thing is, many users don't see
the point in being told this story again and again, as this only annoys them,
discredits you, and make the one who want you out of Debian laugh.

So please, find another way to solve this, as I don't think this method has
given any positive result for now. I don't know what to do, but as you saw on
this list, a lot of people are with you, and think that you are too much
important for the ppc port to be lost. Just try to change the way you fix your
relational problem with the other DDs.

Benjamin Cama

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Sven Luther · External Since: May 27, 2007 Posts: 34

On Wed, Jul 25, 2007 at 08:05:03AM +0000, Cord Beermann wrote:
> Hallo! Du (Sven Luther) hast geschrieben:
>
> > Given that it was Frans Pop who started all this, that he was the one
> > asking for my expulsion from debian (which debian's leadership agreed
> > to), i have little hope. Already in the thread starting in :
> >
> > http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2007/07/msg00323.html
>
> Sven, i'm close to cursing you. Frans left the project (who was btw the
> most active listmaster for the archives), why keep picking on him?

You are joking, right ? Frans did not leave anything, he still rules
unopposed on d-i.

> I told you (and publically) that i am really unhappy with this whole
> affair, i also tried to be neutral, but each time you spoiled it.
>
> Why can't you just take the lift as it is, and use it to bring this
> port forward?

I cannot, because i am *TECHNICALLY* hindered to do so. Why can't you
ask the same question to those who are so out to hurt me ?

Again, censorship is anathema, and evil, it is not something debian
should do.

And i will point to this fact as long as i live, which is the duty of
any human being with a sense for correctness and honour.

Friendly,

Sven Luther

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Sven Luther · External Since: May 27, 2007 Posts: 34

On Wed, Jul 25, 2007 at 12:06:57PM +0200, benoar DeleteThis @free.fr wrote:
> Selon Sven Luther <sven DeleteThis @powerlinux.fr>:
>
> > On Wed, Jul 25, 2007 at 07:57:18AM +0200, Ingo Juergensmann wrote:
> > > But...
> > > Sven, I think it would be better to let the story rest in peace and to go on
> > > and look forward instead looking backward. Nobody can change what happened,
> > > but it will make many things easier for you, when you don't look back in
> > > anger and always pointing everyone to what happened to you.
> >
> > Yes, but when i tried to do this, during my self imposed ban in
> > january/february for example, and tried to go forward helping organize
> > the FOSDEM booth, they chose the occasion to relaunch the expulsion
> > procedure. Or when i provided over 30 patches for powerpc despite the
> > constrants set upon me, as documented in the wiki pages, they removed my
> > right to upload my own .udeb providing packages.
> >
> > I have tried this many times in the past, and they wouldn't let me.
>
> I think that what everyone is trying to explain you is that this is not by
> always telling the same story on different mailing lists that you will solve
> this problem. I understand that you can't let this go as if nothing happened,
> because there have been mistakes from both sides, and that you have been the
> only one to be punished, and this is not fair.

Indeed, which is why i started another thread, clearly pointing the
current situation, with all its political messyness, and tried to see if
we could together work around those hurdles.

> If this is a problem with Frans Pop or anyone else, why don't you talk with him
> ? Because he doesn't want to ? So, what's the point of telling it to every

Because since the start he refused to do so.

> Debian user ? What could we do to that, as simple Debian user ? Launch a
> petition ? Start a revolution ? Fork Debian ? The thing is, many users don't see

A petition would be good. A real debian fork is what they deserve, but
too much work obviously.

> the point in being told this story again and again, as this only annoys them,
> discredits you, and make the one who want you out of Debian laugh.

Indeed. But i only pointed it out in order to put the situation
straigth, and see what we can do in this regard.

This evening there is a d-i meeting, and one of the topics i added is
the future of the powerpc port. The d-i leadership refused to have me
present at that meeting, without any valid reason, and in total
irrespect of the social contract and our users.

Maybe a solution is for powerpc users to show up there :

http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Meetings/Coordination

this evening, and ask the d-i folk to stop being childish *OR* to take
their responsabilities seriously, and do the work i used to do
themselves.

> So please, find another way to solve this, as I don't think this method has
> given any positive result for now. I don't know what to do, but as you saw on
> this list, a lot of people are with you, and think that you are too much
> important for the ppc port to be lost. Just try to change the way you fix your
> relational problem with the other DDs.

There is no chance to solve it. I was never even given a chance to even
discuss it, none of my compromise proposals where heard, none of my
efforts to abide by their unfair rules where noticed and appreciated, i
was only dealt punishement and expulsion, and hindrance to do the
technical work i like to do and for which the readers of this list
appreciate me. None of the Debian power structures (DAMs, DPL) had any
respect for my work or position, and ruled undiscutably in favour of the
other party, irrespective of the reality of their claims.

So, again, i pointed out the current situation, and tried to think about
possible workaround, and what we could do to solve it. Very few seem to
have read the second mail, or commented on it in a positive way yet.

Friendly,

Sven Luther

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Sven Luther · External Since: May 27, 2007 Posts: 34

On Wed, Jul 25, 2007 at 06:23:28AM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote:
> * Sven Luther (sven@powerlinux.fr) wrote:
> > You are joking, right ? Frans did not leave anything, he still rules
> > unopposed on d-i.
> [...]
>
> Whoah, whoah, whoah, take it somewhere else. This is exactly why the
> ban was put in place previously and if it's going to start back all over
> again then it's going to have to be put back.

Well, face it, the dispute is still raging, and ignoring it will not
make it go away.

I apologize though, i thought this was a private answer to Cord, and not
destined to reach the list. mutt playing tricks on me, sorry.

Friendly,

Sven Luther

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Sven Luther · External Since: May 27, 2007 Posts: 34

On Wed, Jul 25, 2007 at 12:45:56PM +0200, Gaudenz Steinlin wrote:
> Hi Sven
>
> I already asked you off list to stop your rants about Debian politics on
> this list and I do so again for one last time on list.

Indeed, so please, all, let's stop this thread now, and participate in
the other thread i started, to see if we can constructively go forward,
desite the political hurdles which impact our ability to do technical
work.

> If you are unable to restrict yourself to purely technical posts then I
> will ask the listmasters to reinstall the ban.

Indeed, and apart from menaces, can you also provide positive and
constrcutive comments ?

> Please accept that others in Debian don't agree with you and that your
> rants won't change that. I'm rellay tired of hearing this all over
> again.

I accept that, and i started another thread to see if we can work around
those political hurdles. Please show that you can also provide positive
and constructive comments, and not just political rants, and participate
in that other thread.

/me is amazed how so many people ask me to not mention the ugly politcal
aspects, and engage in political rants themselves.

Friendly,

Sven Luther

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bibinix · External Since: Jun 09, 2005 Posts: 8

I have installed Debian Woody on my powerfull PowerBook G3 266 Mhz (the black model without USB ports, I think its called WallStreet) I was doing a distro-upgrade with apt-get when the process signalised that I have to upgrade also the kernel (I have the version 2.4).

The command :
apt-cache search kernel
give me the following result:
kernel-image-2.6-power3 - linux 2.6 image on power3 - transition package
kernel-image-2.6-power3-smp - linux 2.6 image on power3 - transition package
kernel-image-2.6-power4 - linux 2.6 image on power4/G5 - transition package
kernel-image-2.6-power4-smp - linux 2.6 image on SMP power4/G5 - transition package
kernel-image-2.6-powerpc - Linux 2.6 image on powerpc-class - transition package
kernel-image-2.6-powerpc-smp - Linux 2.6 image on powerpc-smp-class - transition package
kernel-image-power3 - linux image on power3 - transition package
kernel-image-power3-smp - linux image on power3 - transition package
kernel-image-power4 - linux image on power4/G5 - transition package
kernel-image-power4-smp - linux image on power4/G5 - transition package
kernel-image-powerpc - Linux image on powerpc-class - transition package
kernel-image-powerpc-smp - Linux image on powerpc-smp-class - transition package

Which is the good one for me?
No one can give me some hints on the process of kernel upgrade? How does it work?
Upgrade the kernel with apt-get (?)
Reboot on woody
Apt-get distro-upgrade.
It looks like to simple…will I be able to reboot after the kernel installation (I use BootX)?.

Thanks

Paolo
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Sven Luther · External Since: May 27, 2007 Posts: 34

On Wed, Jul 25, 2007 at 05:45:13PM +0200, bibinix.DeleteThis@gmx.net wrote:
> I have installed Debian Woody on my powerfull PowerBook G3 266 Mhz (the black model without USB ports, I think its called WallStreet) I was doing a distro-upgrade with apt-get when the process signalised that I have to upgrade also the kernel (I have the version 2.4).
>
> The command :
> apt-cache search kernel
> give me the following result:
> kernel-image-2.6-power3 - linux 2.6 image on power3 - transition package
> kernel-image-2.6-power3-smp - linux 2.6 image on power3 - transition package
> kernel-image-2.6-power4 - linux 2.6 image on power4/G5 - transition package
> kernel-image-2.6-power4-smp - linux 2.6 image on SMP power4/G5 - transition package
> kernel-image-2.6-powerpc - Linux 2.6 image on powerpc-class - transition package
> kernel-image-2.6-powerpc-smp - Linux 2.6 image on powerpc-smp-class - transition package
> kernel-image-power3 - linux image on power3 - transition package
> kernel-image-power3-smp - linux image on power3 - transition package
> kernel-image-power4 - linux image on power4/G5 - transition package
> kernel-image-power4-smp - linux image on power4/G5 - transition package
> kernel-image-powerpc - Linux image on powerpc-class - transition package
> kernel-image-powerpc-smp - Linux image on powerpc-smp-class - transition package
>
> Which is the good one for me?
> No one can give me some hints on the process of kernel upgrade? How does it work?
> Upgrade the kernel with apt-get (?)
> Reboot on woody
> Apt-get distro-upgrade.
> It looks like to simple…will I be able to reboot after the kernel installation (I use BootX)?.

You want : kernel-image-2.6-powerpc or kernel-image-powerpc.

I am unsure of what you are doing, but it seems to me that you are doing
an upgrade to an etch system, right ? Or are you upgrading to lenny or
sid ? Be aware that debian only supports a single upgrade step at a
time.

I am unsure what the etch kernel will do for oldworld bootx using
machines, there where some trouble recently, but i hope it got fixed. I
remember adding some patches last year, but my attention was diverted to
the messy dispute i am forbiden to mention then.

If nothing else, you have to copy your kernel onto a HFS partition for
BootX to use, and i suppose that BootX can boot your old kernel, but it
is good to have a pair of miboot d-i images handy for rescue purpose or
something.

Friendly,

Sven Luther

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brian · External Since: Jul 20, 2006 Posts: 41

hi,

like Sven says don't forget to copy your new
kernel back to macos partition so bootx can find it !

also take care you have security update in your
sources.list and then you should get the last kernel
of sarge which is 2.6.8-3 powerpc.

I think you are safe upgradeing from woody to sarge,
if you are thinking to go further upgrades to etch and
beyond it will probably be ok. but it may be a bit
slower, maybe sometimes. Also depends on how much
memory you have there as more is getting to need
all the time.

In fact that is the biggest difference to me.
some old version of linux i picked up for starters
on my old g3 that was from '99 it gave me the whole
of kde for 32MB of RAM and 500MB of disk. today need
I estimate 256 RAM for kde maybe ?? Anyway i just use
an lightweight window manager such as openbox.

I have two g3 one is a desktop of march 1998 and one
is original g3 powerbook of November 1997. the
powerbook did fine with stock kernel up until
pre-release of etch and is now running lenny/sid with
a local kernel built...

I have tested etch kernels on my desktop g3 and could
use the stock ones there, and i imagine it would be
same for you but I cannot guarantee. well I think
that the one wallstreet with more problems was a
233mhz. What you have maybe is also called PDQ --
should be ok if you have RAM. I would reccommend at
least 128, but it does vary a lot depends on what you
do. you can boot with probably 32 but like I say above
for kde you probably want 256.

also if you wish to practice build your own kernel
anyway it is not that hard and it may be faster and
use less RAM. it takes about 3 hours to build on mine.

Well my pbg3 has 160 and I haveing no desire for kde
can pretty much do what I like. on the dtg3 with 192,
macosX is running short by about half so i need to
either finish my debian updgrade or get more RAM.

well good luck,

brian

--- bibinix.TakeThisOut@gmx.net wrote:

> I have installed Debian Woody on my powerfull
> PowerBook G3 266 Mhz (the black model without USB
> ports, I think its called WallStreet) I was doing a
> distro-upgrade with apt-get when the process
> signalised that I have to upgrade also the kernel (I
> have the version 2.4).
>
> The command :
> apt-cache search kernel
> give me the following result:
> kernel-image-2.6-power3 - linux 2.6 image on power3
> - transition package
> kernel-image-2.6-power3-smp - linux 2.6 image on
> power3 - transition package
> kernel-image-2.6-power4 - linux 2.6 image on
> power4/G5 - transition package
> kernel-image-2.6-power4-smp - linux 2.6 image on SMP
> power4/G5 - transition package
> kernel-image-2.6-powerpc - Linux 2.6 image on
> powerpc-class - transition package
> kernel-image-2.6-powerpc-smp - Linux 2.6 image on
> powerpc-smp-class - transition package
> kernel-image-power3 - linux image on power3 -
> transition package
> kernel-image-power3-smp - linux image on power3 -
> transition package
> kernel-image-power4 - linux image on power4/G5 -
> transition package
> kernel-image-power4-smp - linux image on power4/G5 -
> transition package
> kernel-image-powerpc - Linux image on powerpc-class
> - transition package
> kernel-image-powerpc-smp - Linux image on
> powerpc-smp-class - transition package
>
> Which is the good one for me?
> No one can give me some hints on the process of
> kernel upgrade? How does it work?
> Upgrade the kernel with apt-get (?)
> Reboot on woody
> Apt-get distro-upgrade.
> It looks like to simpleâ€¦will I be able to reboot
> after the kernel installation (I use BootX)?.
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Paolo
> --
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bibinix · External Since: Jun 09, 2005 Posts: 8

Thanks for the useful information. It is the first time I got such a detailed and nice answer in a newsgroup. I will try to put (as soon as my wife goes in holyday) your suggestion into practice, I hope I will do good use of them.
I am planning to upgrade to sarge and install xfce on the machine, since is a computer I do not use anymore I can play around as much as I want without fear of loosing data.
Yes Brian, maybe …one day …I will do my first kernel compilation…(I forgot to say that I am a newbie, but you may have guessed).
Do you think that the x-window-system and xfce can fit into a 1.3 Giga? (this is what is left in my pbg3 and I do not want to erase the Mac OS 8.6 partition since I am attached to it and also I don't want to go back an do pdisk and so on since I remember it was really complex). I see that xubuntu need 1.5 Gb of disk space!

cheers

Bibinix

-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Datum: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 22:03:55 -0700 (PDT)
Von: brian <cymraegish.RemoveThis@yahoo.com>
An: bibinix.RemoveThis@gmx.net
CC: debian-powerpc.RemoveThis@lists.debian.org
Betreff: Re: Which kernel is good for my Powerbook G3?

> hi,
>
> like Sven says don't forget to copy your new
> kernel back to macos partition so bootx can find it !
>
> also take care you have security update in your
> sources.list and then you should get the last kernel
> of sarge which is 2.6.8-3 powerpc.
>
> I think you are safe upgradeing from woody to sarge,
> if you are thinking to go further upgrades to etch and
> beyond it will probably be ok. but it may be a bit
> slower, maybe sometimes. Also depends on how much
> memory you have there as more is getting to need
> all the time.
>
> In fact that is the biggest difference to me.
> some old version of linux i picked up for starters
> on my old g3 that was from '99 it gave me the whole
> of kde for 32MB of RAM and 500MB of disk. today need
> I estimate 256 RAM for kde maybe ?? Anyway i just use
> an lightweight window manager such as openbox.
>
> I have two g3 one is a desktop of march 1998 and one
> is original g3 powerbook of November 1997. the
> powerbook did fine with stock kernel up until
> pre-release of etch and is now running lenny/sid with
> a local kernel built...
>
> I have tested etch kernels on my desktop g3 and could
> use the stock ones there, and i imagine it would be
> same for you but I cannot guarantee. well I think
> that the one wallstreet with more problems was a
> 233mhz. What you have maybe is also called PDQ --
> should be ok if you have RAM. I would reccommend at
> least 128, but it does vary a lot depends on what you
> do. you can boot with probably 32 but like I say above
> for kde you probably want 256.
>
> also if you wish to practice build your own kernel
> anyway it is not that hard and it may be faster and
> use less RAM. it takes about 3 hours to build on mine.
>
> Well my pbg3 has 160 and I haveing no desire for kde
> can pretty much do what I like. on the dtg3 with 192,
> macosX is running short by about half so i need to
> either finish my debian updgrade or get more RAM.
>
> well good luck,
>
> brian
>
> --- bibinix.RemoveThis@gmx.net wrote:
>
> > I have installed Debian Woody on my powerfull
> > PowerBook G3 266 Mhz (the black model without USB
> > ports, I think its called WallStreet) I was doing a
> > distro-upgrade with apt-get when the process
> > signalised that I have to upgrade also the kernel (I
> > have the version 2.4).
> >
> > The command :
> > apt-cache search kernel
> > give me the following result:
> > kernel-image-2.6-power3 - linux 2.6 image on power3
> > - transition package
> > kernel-image-2.6-power3-smp - linux 2.6 image on
> > power3 - transition package
> > kernel-image-2.6-power4 - linux 2.6 image on
> > power4/G5 - transition package
> > kernel-image-2.6-power4-smp - linux 2.6 image on SMP
> > power4/G5 - transition package
> > kernel-image-2.6-powerpc - Linux 2.6 image on
> > powerpc-class - transition package
> > kernel-image-2.6-powerpc-smp - Linux 2.6 image on
> > powerpc-smp-class - transition package
> > kernel-image-power3 - linux image on power3 -
> > transition package
> > kernel-image-power3-smp - linux image on power3 -
> > transition package
> > kernel-image-power4 - linux image on power4/G5 -
> > transition package
> > kernel-image-power4-smp - linux image on power4/G5 -
> > transition package
> > kernel-image-powerpc - Linux image on powerpc-class
> > - transition package
> > kernel-image-powerpc-smp - Linux image on
> > powerpc-smp-class - transition package
> >
> > Which is the good one for me?
> > No one can give me some hints on the process of
> > kernel upgrade? How does it work?
> > Upgrade the kernel with apt-get (?)
> > Reboot on woody
> > Apt-get distro-upgrade.
> > It looks like to simpleâÂ€¦will I be able to reboot
> > after the kernel installation (I use BootX)?.
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Paolo
> > --
> > GMX FreeMail: 1 GB Postfach, 5 E-Mail-Adressen, 10
> > Free SMS.
> > Alle Infos und kostenlose Anmeldung:
> > http://www.gmx.net/de/go/freemail
> >
> >
> > --
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to
> > debian-powerpc-REQUEST.RemoveThis@lists.debian.org
> > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact
> > listmaster.RemoveThis@lists.debian.org
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
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> news, photos & more.
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>
>
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Sven Luther · External Since: May 27, 2007 Posts: 34

On Thu, Jul 26, 2007 at 08:55:33AM +0200, bibinix.RemoveThis@gmx.net wrote:
> Thanks for the useful information. It is the first time I got such a detailed and nice answer in a newsgroup. I will try to put (as soon as my wife goes in holyday) your suggestion into practice, I hope I will do good use of them.
> I am planning to upgrade to sarge and install xfce on the machine, since is a computer I do not use anymore I can play around as much as I want without fear of loosing data.
> Yes Brian, maybe …one day …I will do my first kernel compilation…(I forgot to say that I am a newbie, but you may have guessed).
> Do you think that the x-window-system and xfce can fit into a 1.3 Giga? (this is what is left in my pbg3 and I do not want to erase the Mac OS 8.6 partition since I am attached to it and also I don't want to go back an do pdisk and so on since I remember it was really complex). I see that xubuntu need 1.5 Gb of disk space!

It might be ok. I have currently a bit under 3GB used on my efika
machine, which has 650MB in /home, and has in addition of xfce, apache,
postgresql and asterisk, 3 full compiler suites, and a bunch of
libraries installed. So, i am unsure if you can go down to 1.3GB or not.

Maybe you should just install a base system first, and then install xfce
by hand ?

Also remember to count some disk space for swap space.

Friendly,

Sven Luther

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Tommy Trussell · External Since: Aug 29, 2006 Posts: 3

On 7/26/07, Sven Luther <sven.RemoveThis@powerlinux.fr> wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 26, 2007 at 08:55:33AM +0200, bibinix.RemoveThis@gmx.net wrote:
> > Do you think that the x-window-system and xfce can fit into a 1.3 Giga? (this is what is left in my pbg3 and I do not want to erase the Mac OS 8.6 partition since I am attached to it and also I don't want to go back an do pdisk and so on since I remember it was really complex). I see that xubuntu need 1.5 Gb of disk space!
>
> It might be ok. I have currently a bit under 3GB used on my efika
> machine, which has 650MB in /home, and has in addition of xfce, apache,
> postgresql and asterisk, 3 full compiler suites, and a bunch of
> libraries installed. So, i am unsure if you can go down to 1.3GB or not.

I, too am not sure what the minimum is, but you are lucky on that
model -- I have the same machine, a 266 Mhz PowerBook G3 Series (aka
Wallstreet II/PDQ) -- and it's easy to put in a larger hard drive. The
drive is located underneath the keyboard and is VERY easy to reach
compared to some other models. Nowadays you can find a 20 gig or
larger drive for very little money.

I'm not yet running the latest Debian (or Ubuntu) so I am interested
in knowing how the newest release works for you. Please report back
after you have upgraded!

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