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kenmabmcc
Joined: Nov 20, 2003
Posts: 8181
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand.
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 Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:12 pm Post subject: The horror of socialised medicine.. |
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| I'm a Slave to Socialized Medicine
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| But, for Anna and me, it's already too late. We've become so enslaved by the great medical care we now have that we cannot see ever moving back to the United States or anywhere else. That, I suppose, is the true horror of socialized medicine that all those Florida doctors warned about back in the 1940s. |
The comments are worth reading also...
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mommabear
Joined: Feb 20, 2003
Posts: 6319
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The comments are worth reading also... |
Good Lord, YES!
There has to be a better way. You only have to read the comments to know that we are failing our people here.
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rovingcowboy
Joined: Jan 26, 2003
Posts: 1279
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:48 am Post subject: |
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you are sounding like an anti capitalist, adding that type of socialized contorl over medical people is just what the hmo's do. and they block people from getting the help they need. what in ..... do we want the gov. to take that up now for, they muck up every thing else, and now they got the gov. to contorl part of the banks. now they want the auto industry, and people are still trying to get medical stuff in the contorl of government. this socialist movement has better stop or the country will end up with a muslim president? oh wait we already did get one. now were in for deep sh...t
thanks a lot all you anti american people out there. may you rot in.... |
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xavierx
Joined: Nov 06, 2004
Posts: 5427
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:00 am Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| mommabear wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The comments are worth reading also... |
Good Lord, YES!
There has to be a better way. You only have to read the comments to know that we are failing our people here. |
Assuming for the moment that that is true, is then the only answer government run health care? That is what the rest of the country is afraid of, Mommabear. We can get "better" without turning our lives over to the same government that you yourself have been so critical of. The US government is not capable of running large programs efficiently or in a sane manner, and I don't want them making my health decisions for me. Ask people on Medicare how happy they are - I don't hear much satisfaction there. |
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ejward
Joined: Jan 06, 2003
Posts: 7054
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:10 am Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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Medicare is about the only thing government does right. I wish my health insurance was as good as my Mother's.
remember when McCain said "I'll fix social security, that's easy" in the debate? it IS easy because it's not really broken. 30 or so years from now there will still be money in the fund for me to collect my check. The problem is that 100% of that check will go to pay for healthcare. That's the grim reality that politicians don't want to face.
So what's really the argument aginst it? That we're dumb Americans and couldn't possibly do it better than other industrialized nations?
Remember "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"? Wouldn't healthcare be covered under "Life"? Wouldn't national healthcare be more in line with what the Constitution says than other things? Like our current monitary system? Like our current forign policy trend? |
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rovingcowboy
Joined: Jan 26, 2003
Posts: 1279
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:15 am Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| ejward wrote: |
Medicare is about the only thing government does right. I wish my health insurance was as good as my Mother's.
remember when McCain said "I'll fix social security, that's easy" in the debate? it IS easy because it's not really broken. 30 or so years from now there will still be money in the fund for me to collect my check. The problem is that 100% of that check will go to pay for healthcare. That's the grim reality that politicians don't want to face.
So what's really the argument aginst it? That we're dumb Americans and couldn't possibly do it better than other industrialized nations?
Remember "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"? Wouldn't healthcare be covered under "Life"? Wouldn't national healthcare be more in line with what the Constitution says than other things? Like our current monitary system? Like our current forign policy trend? |
you forgot like our current trend to give our rights away for a little bit of forign style government. that will control our every move in the future.
no thanks i don't want to be a socialist. |
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mommabear
Joined: Feb 20, 2003
Posts: 6319
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:24 am Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| ejward wrote: |
Medicare is about the only thing government does right. I wish my health insurance was as good as my Mother's.
remember when McCain said "I'll fix social security, that's easy" in the debate? it IS easy because it's not really broken. 30 or so years from now there will still be money in the fund for me to collect my check. The problem is that 100% of that check will go to pay for healthcare. That's the grim reality that politicians don't want to face.
So what's really the argument aginst it? That we're dumb Americans and couldn't possibly do it better than other industrialized nations?
Remember "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"? Wouldn't healthcare be covered under "Life"? Wouldn't national healthcare be more in line with what the Constitution says than other things? Like our current monitary system? Like our current forign policy trend? |
Even then, improvements can be made. For one thing, the fairly recent "reform" of the prescription coverage plans forbade getting bids for the best prices. The pharma lobbyists won that one.
As for not wanting the government making health decisions for us, xavierx, the insurance companies and pharmas are already doing that.
But we've been down that road many times. I guess that until those who don't believe that are actually denied coverage for their own illnesses by their own insurance company, then it just isn't so, in their eyes. It's all just a sinister plan to take away your freedom of choice. <<insert sarcasm here>> |
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mommabear
Joined: Feb 20, 2003
Posts: 6319
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:28 am Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| rovingcowboy wrote: |
you are sounding like an anti capitalist, adding that type of socialized contorl over medical people is just what the hmo's do. and they block people from getting the help they need. what in ..... do we want the gov. to take that up now for, they muck up every thing else, and now they got the gov. to contorl part of the banks. now they want the auto industry, and people are still trying to get medical stuff in the contorl of government. this socialist movement has better stop or the country will end up with a muslim president? oh wait we already did get one. now were in for deep sh...t
thanks a lot all you anti american people out there. may you rot in.... |
You got one thing right. HMO's are blocking people from getting the care they need.
The rest of it is mostly garbage. My clues? "muslim" president, and anti-american. |
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CowpokeBob
Joined: Feb 07, 2006
Posts: 1501
Location: South Carolina, USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:38 am Post subject: Re: The horror of socialised medicine.. [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| kenmabmcc wrote: |
I'm a Slave to Socialized Medicine
| Quote: |
| But, for Anna and me, it's already too late. We've become so enslaved by the great medical care we now have that we cannot see ever moving back to the United States or anywhere else. That, I suppose, is the true horror of socialized medicine that all those Florida doctors warned about back in the 1940s. |
The comments are worth reading also...
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Yup read them all. I noticed that while they mentioned taxes they didn't say how much higher taxes are in all those countries. Taxes are very much higher per capita than they are here. They also mentioned the lack of government beaucracy. The bigest reason why healthcare is so expensive here in the states is liberal big government regulation. I say get rid of governemt beaucracy. As for universal healthcare perhaps anyone that wants socialized health care should follow the example of the folks in the article and seek it elsewhere. I don't believe universal healthcare is not a basic human right so I don't believe it should be forced on anyone. |
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xavierx
Joined: Nov 06, 2004
Posts: 5427
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:46 am Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| ejward wrote: |
Medicare is about the only thing government does right. I wish my health insurance was as good as my Mother's.
remember when McCain said "I'll fix social security, that's easy" in the debate? it IS easy because it's not really broken. 30 or so years from now there will still be money in the fund for me to collect my check. The problem is that 100% of that check will go to pay for healthcare. That's the grim reality that politicians don't want to face. |
It is broken, ejward, even Democrats admit that. There won't be enough money to pay for "your" check in the very near future, unless you take all of MY money to do it. The SS pyramid scheme is nearing the failure point - in order to have a successful pyramid, there has to be enough people at the bottom to pay for the top, and that isn't going to be the case.
| Quote: |
| So what's really the argument aginst it? That we're dumb Americans and couldn't possibly do it better than other industrialized nations? |
Nice flame bait.
You know as well as everyone here that I was talking about the POLITICIANS. They aren't driven by doing the right thing, they're driven by power, and they almost always screw up whatever they touch.
| Quote: |
| Remember "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"? Wouldn't healthcare be covered under "Life"? Wouldn't national healthcare be more in line with what the Constitution says than other things? Like our current monitary system? Like our current forign policy trend? |
Ejward, you can't quote the Declaration of Independence and then claim that those words support a Constitutional argument.
Aside from that, no, government run health care is NOT allowed by the Constitution. Look it up - the Federal government is granted a very few, very specific, well defined set of powers. Everything else is explicitly FORBIDDEN to the Federal government, and allocated to the States. Health care is NOT in the Constitution, and as such a national health care system, run by the Federal Government, would actually be UN-constitutional. |
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rovingcowboy
Joined: Jan 26, 2003
Posts: 1279
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:51 am Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| mommabear wrote: |
| rovingcowboy wrote: |
you are sounding like an anti capitalist, adding that type of socialized contorl over medical people is just what the hmo's do. and they block people from getting the help they need. what in ..... do we want the gov. to take that up now for, they muck up every thing else, and now they got the gov. to contorl part of the banks. now they want the auto industry, and people are still trying to get medical stuff in the contorl of government. this socialist movement has better stop or the country will end up with a muslim president? oh wait we already did get one. now were in for deep sh...t
thanks a lot all you anti american people out there. may you rot in.... |
You got one thing right. HMO's are blocking people from getting the care they need.
The rest of it is mostly garbage. My clues? "muslim" president, and anti-american. |
i did not get anything wrong.
Muslim president is correct. if you are a Christian you would know that. and you would know why it is correct.
anti American is also correct because bo said he would side with all the Muslims that includes the terrorists that gave him money for his run for the office. oh really so you think the black people in this country have that much money and just live in the ghetto's for the fun of it? where in the world did you think that money was coming from, you think bo told the truth of where he got it? he did not know where it came from the Muslim controllers of his life kept that from him.
and sure he is Muslim the bible says raise a child as he is to be, and he will be that way later in life.
well duh bo was raised as a Muslim for the first 10 years of his live. he has lived in a radical anti American neighborhood, gone to a anti American church for 20 years or more, and had friendly connections with people in this country that tried to blow up buildings and still would if they could find a way to do it and not be seen. the fact bo is an anti American Muslim is all over the place. you have to be blind not to see it.
if he did change his ways from Muslim when he said he did. then he would have moved out of the area he was in and would have changed churches.
now since he did not do that. then he is either incredible stupid or anti American. if he is stupid why in the h... did the demo's put him in office.
so he must be anti American and Muslim. cause there's no other choices. |
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tony7914
Joined: Dec 24, 2004
Posts: 4965
Location: Peru Indiana
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:59 am Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| ejward wrote: |
Medicare is about the only thing government does right. I wish my health insurance was as good as my Mother's.
remember when McCain said "I'll fix social security, that's easy" in the debate? it IS easy because it's not really broken. 30 or so years from now there will still be money in the fund for me to collect my check. The problem is that 100% of that check will go to pay for healthcare. That's the grim reality that politicians don't want to face.
So what's really the argument aginst it? That we're dumb Americans and couldn't possibly do it better than other industrialized nations?
Remember "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"? Wouldn't healthcare be covered under "Life"? Wouldn't national healthcare be more in line with what the Constitution says than other things? Like our current monitary system? Like our current forign policy trend? |
Medicare doesn't work right either ej. The tax is high and people have to buy supplemental insurance to cover things like medicine and supplies.
As for social security I can remember when Clinton promised to fix it but he got side tracked lol!
That money may or may not be there ej. Congress has been borrowing from that fund for a long time and guess what generation is starting to retire now  the baby boomer's and they happen to be a rather large chunk of America.
Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness......How does anyone see an entitlement in those words other than what they meant when they were originally spoken??
If the founding fathers want the government to manage your life they would have spelled it out in the constitution my friend. |
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mommabear
Joined: Feb 20, 2003
Posts: 6319
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:42 am Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| rovingcowboy wrote: |
| mommabear wrote: |
| rovingcowboy wrote: |
you are sounding like an anti capitalist, adding that type of socialized contorl over medical people is just what the hmo's do. and they block people from getting the help they need. what in ..... do we want the gov. to take that up now for, they muck up every thing else, and now they got the gov. to contorl part of the banks. now they want the auto industry, and people are still trying to get medical stuff in the contorl of government. this socialist movement has better stop or the country will end up with a muslim president? oh wait we already did get one. now were in for deep sh...t
thanks a lot all you anti american people out there. may you rot in.... |
You got one thing right. HMO's are blocking people from getting the care they need.
The rest of it is mostly garbage. My clues? "muslim" president, and anti-american. |
i did not get anything wrong.
Muslim president is correct. if you are a Christian you would know that. and you would know why it is correct.
anti American is also correct because bo said he would side with all the Muslims that includes the terrorists that gave him money for his run for the office. oh really so you think the black people in this country have that much money and just live in the ghetto's for the fun of it? where in the world did you think that money was coming from, you think bo told the truth of where he got it? he did not know where it came from the Muslim controllers of his life kept that from him.
and sure he is Muslim the bible says raise a child as he is to be, and he will be that way later in life.
well duh bo was raised as a Muslim for the first 10 years of his live. he has lived in a radical anti American neighborhood, gone to a anti American church for 20 years or more, and had friendly connections with people in this country that tried to blow up buildings and still would if they could find a way to do it and not be seen. the fact bo is an anti American Muslim is all over the place. you have to be blind not to see it.
if he did change his ways from Muslim when he said he did. then he would have moved out of the area he was in and would have changed churches.
now since he did not do that. then he is either incredible stupid or anti American. if he is stupid why in the h... did the demo's put him in office.
so he must be anti American and Muslim. cause there's no other choices. |
All of that is not true and if you bothered to do a little research, you'd know it. But I suspect you already do know it, but prefer to spread the lies because it's just easier for you. |
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rovingcowboy
Joined: Jan 26, 2003
Posts: 1279
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:48 am Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| Quote: |
| the bible says raise a child as he is to be, and he will be that way later in life |
you saying that is a lie is only telling me you are not a chirstian.
or did you not see that because you didn't even read that far down in my post.  |
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CowpokeBob
Joined: Feb 07, 2006
Posts: 1501
Location: South Carolina, USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:55 am Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| tony7914 wrote: |
| ejward wrote: |
Medicare is about the only thing government does right. I wish my health insurance was as good as my Mother's.
remember when McCain said "I'll fix social security, that's easy" in the debate? it IS easy because it's not really broken. 30 or so years from now there will still be money in the fund for me to collect my check. The problem is that 100% of that check will go to pay for healthcare. That's the grim reality that politicians don't want to face.
So what's really the argument aginst it? That we're dumb Americans and couldn't possibly do it better than other industrialized nations?
Remember "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"? Wouldn't healthcare be covered under "Life"? Wouldn't national healthcare be more in line with what the Constitution says than other things? Like our current monitary system? Like our current forign policy trend? |
Medicare doesn't work right either ej. The tax is high and people have to buy supplemental insurance to cover things like medicine and supplies.
As for social security I can remember when Clinton promised to fix it but he got side tracked lol!
That money may or may not be there ej. Congress has been borrowing from that fund for a long time and guess what generation is starting to retire now the baby boomer's and they happen to be a rather large chunk of America.
Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness......How does anyone see an entitlement in those words other than what they meant when they were originally spoken??
If the founding fathers want the government to manage your life they would have spelled it out in the constitution my friend. |
A+'s to xavierx and tony 7914. I see president elect Obama isn't the only one who paid attention during US history, government and constitutional law classes |
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CowpokeBob
Joined: Feb 07, 2006
Posts: 1501
Location: South Carolina, USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:51 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| Quote: |
| As for not wanting the government making health decisions for us, xavierx, the insurance companies and pharmas are already doing that. |
I don't disagree with you mommabear but you left out one tiny little thing. While the insurance companies do make plenty of decisions as to what they will cover, etc. nobody is forced to buy into it and they can shop around for the best deal. That isn't the case with the government version. For example I have several co-workers and friends who make a salary equivalent to mine but don't partake of health care insurance. Some have better policies through thier spouses, some have other reasons but the point is they have a choice. Incidentally they are all among the "un-insured" we keep hearing about. Yes there are a few out there that truly need help, many are already covered under programs like medicaid, WIC, etc (my daughter is one). Yes there is room for improvement too. Now the government plan I have heard floated by Obama would require everyone to enroll into it in some form but not everyone is going to pay equally. My taxes will go up dramatically I imagine since I fall into the category that actually pays taxes...not poor enough to escape them and not rich enough to avoid them. And worse still I will lose my ability to make my own choices about my health and yet a little more of my freedom. Thanks but no thanks. |
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mommabear
Joined: Feb 20, 2003
Posts: 6319
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:22 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| rovingcowboy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| the bible says raise a child as he is to be, and he will be that way later in life |
you saying that is a lie is only telling me you are not a chirstian.
or did you not see that because you didn't even read that far down in my post. |
I read the whole thing. Garbage in. Garbage out.
As to whether or not I'm a Christian, what does it matter? But since you bring it up, I was raised Roman Catholic. I'll wager that you probably have big list of other garbage on Papists filed away someplace, too. |
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Gezzer
Joined: Oct 19, 2008
Posts: 666
Location: Buckinghamshire England
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:25 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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we in the UK can manage a health service for all
they in France can manage a health service for all
in Australia they can manage a health service for all
in many other parts of the world they can manage a health service for all
but a country the size and strength of the US can not manage a health service for all
the only conclusion i can reach is you do not want a health service for all
you should be deeply ashamed of yourselves, but, i have doubt of that … |
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Gezzer
Joined: Oct 19, 2008
Posts: 666
Location: Buckinghamshire England
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:33 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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Q. where does it state that a Christian can only be President ? …
note
i do not believe Mr Obama is anything else or other then a Christian … |
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xavierx
Joined: Nov 06, 2004
Posts: 5427
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 4:34 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| Gezzer wrote: |
we in the UK can manage a health service for all
they in France can manage a health service for all
in Australia they can manage a health service for all
in many other parts of the world they can manage a health service for all
but a country the size and strength of the US can not manage a health service for all
the only conclusion i can reach is you do not want a health service for all
you should be deeply ashamed of yourselves, but, i have doubt of that … |
nice flame bait, there.
I would say that I eagerly await your apology for your insult, but I know better than to expect civility.
Perhaps you're just not thinking clearly about it, but you do realize that it is much harder to manage a large program than to manage a small one, right?
United States — Population: 301,139,947
United Kingdom — Population: 60,776,238
France — Population: 64,057,792
Australia — Population: 20,434,176
Or do you really expect it to be the same to provide government run health care for 1/15 to 1/5 of the population as the US? |
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