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A Weapon Against Gappers?

 
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Billsey



Joined: May 24, 2009
Posts: 26

Location: Oakville, Missouri, USA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:16 am    Post subject: A Weapon Against Gappers?


First, what is a "gapper"?

A gapper is someone who, when driving in very heavy traffic, insists on keeping an enormous (i. e. FAR more than needed) empty space in front of them, instead of moving with the traffic.

I think I might have happened upon a weapon against this behavior, but I'd like to hear the solutions of other victims of gappers first.
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bern



Joined: Mar 12, 2007
Posts: 1487

Location: ann arbor

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:26 am    Post subject: Re: A Weapon Against Gappers? [Login to view extended thread Info.]

Billsey wrote:
First, what is a "gapper"?

A gapper is someone who, when driving in very heavy traffic, insists on keeping an enormous (i. e. FAR more than needed) empty space in front of them, instead of moving with the traffic.

I think I might have happened upon a weapon against this behavior, but I'd like to hear the solutions of other victims of gappers first.


I find, increasingly, that gappers are using their cellphone, and are not really paying attention to the road and traffic. Thus they are oblivious to tailgating, honking, finger displaying, etc. I usually just pass them (on the right if necessary) and leave them to their fate.
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micker377



Joined: May 27, 2005
Posts: 1059



PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:47 pm    Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.]

You'll also find that "gappers" are the the ones driving the speed limit! Drive the legal speed limit and watch all the people pass all around you!
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BudDurland



Joined: Dec 05, 2002
Posts: 526



PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:59 pm    Post subject: Re: A Weapon Against Gappers? [Login to view extended thread Info.]

[quote="Billsey"A gapper is someone who, when driving in very heavy traffic, insists on keeping an enormous (i. e. FAR more than needed) empty space in front of them, instead of moving with the traffic..[/quote]

If they are moving at the legal speed limit, exactly why is this bad, other than it prevents you from getting where you're going 3 seconds sooner? OTOH, the gapper had some extra room to navigate around the unexpected. I could be called a gapper, I suppose, especially when I'm on my motorcycle.
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Billsey



Joined: May 24, 2009
Posts: 26

Location: Oakville, Missouri, USA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:00 pm    Post subject: Re: A Weapon Against Gappers? [Login to view extended thread Info.]

BudDurland wrote:
Billsey wrote:
A gapper is someone who, when driving in very heavy traffic, insists on keeping an enormous (i. e. FAR more than needed) empty space in front of them, instead of moving with the traffic..


If they are moving at the legal speed limit, exactly why is this bad, other than it prevents you from getting where you're going 3 seconds sooner? OTOH, the gapper had some extra room to navigate around the unexpected. I could be called a gapper, I suppose, especially when I'm on my motorcycle.


You didn't really read what you quoted, did you?
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kenmabmcc



Joined: Nov 20, 2003
Posts: 8251

Location: Dunedin, New Zealand.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:01 am    Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.]

Why is driving at the legal speed wrong ?
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bern



Joined: Mar 12, 2007
Posts: 1487

Location: ann arbor

PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:37 am    Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.]

Driving at the speed limit is not wrong. But driving in such a way as to obstruct traffic is wrong.

Interestingly, around here the setting of speed limits on major roads is a somewhat arbitrary affair done by some bureaucrat. Occasionally, in response to requests, the traffic department will do a speed survey, and if the average speed is greater than the arbitrarily set limit, and there have been few accidents, the limit will be raised.

If everybody is driving faster than the limit in a certain stretch of road, it is likely that the limit is wrong and needs to be changed. And if somebody is obstructing traffic on such a road, that is wrong too.
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CowpokeBob



Joined: Feb 07, 2006
Posts: 1506

Location: South Carolina, USA

PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:42 pm    Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.]

bern wrote:
Driving at the speed limit is not wrong. But driving in such a way as to obstruct traffic is wrong.

Interestingly, around here the setting of speed limits on major roads is a somewhat arbitrary affair done by some bureaucrat. Occasionally, in response to requests, the traffic department will do a speed survey, and if the average speed is greater than the arbitrarily set limit, and there have been few accidents, the limit will be raised.

If everybody is driving faster than the limit in a certain stretch of road, it is likely that the limit is wrong and needs to be changed. And if somebody is obstructing traffic on such a road, that is wrong too.


Oh, As someone who can relate to the gappers out there I gotta put my two cents worth in here.

Your first statement is half-right. While the decision can seem arbitrary at times there are guidelines that determine speed limits. Such things as road size (ie: 2 lane, 4 lane), traffic density, surrounding population density, geography, etc. determine the initial speed limit for a road or highway. The second part of your statement concerning altering existing speed limits is where the real poilitics begins.

My experience on the nations highways is that most folks will happily exceed whatever the posted limit is so long as they don't think they will be ticketed so I would have to disagree with your conclusions on why some speed limits need to be changed. As a former police officer I would also like to point out that the posted speed limit is the maximum legal limit for ideal conditions with the actual speed limit often lower then that depending on road conditions. As such the people posing a real hazard are the ones exceeding it. If as you say the limit is wrong then get it changed legally but don't break the law and then point to the law abiding drivers as the culprit for your lawlessness. Now if they are driving well below the posted or actual limit I can see your point. That is illegal as well. People need to get over the fact that a road or highway is not their personal and private concourse and learn to drive in a more considerate manner.

I side with those who support the gappers and I agree with you Bern that if you find that a problem go around them. I will even adjust my speed to accommodate you in such an instance since I would rather have dangerous individuals like you in front of me than behind me anyway. I believe arriving at my destination alive and unharmed is far more important than shaving a few seconds off my arrival time. Besides I've seen enough of the end results of such driving to convince me it isn't worth it.

On a side note tailgating, finger displaying and especially honking will only result in my going slower in an attempt to get you to go around me. (Or to piss you off further.) Something to think about.
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kenmabmcc



Joined: Nov 20, 2003
Posts: 8251

Location: Dunedin, New Zealand.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:51 pm    Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.]

CowpokeBob wrote:
People need to get over the fact that a road or highway is not their personal and private concourse and learn to drive in a more considerate manner.

I side with those who support the gappers and I agree with you Bern that if you find that a problem go around them. I will even adjust my speed to accommodate you in such an instance since I would rather have dangerous individuals like you in front of me than behind me anyway. I believe arriving at my destination alive and unharmed is far more important than shaving a few seconds off my arrival time. Besides I've seen enough of the end results of such driving to convince me it isn't worth it.

On a side note tailgating, finger displaying and especially honking will only result in my going slower in an attempt to get you to go around me. (Or to piss you off further.) Something to think about.


I would agree...Ignore the road ragers Laughing

As the population ages, there will be more who wish to drive slower, and allow more space for their slower reaction times.

As long as people can pass them safely, I can see no reason to stop them doing this.

Wink
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bern



Joined: Mar 12, 2007
Posts: 1487

Location: ann arbor

PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:43 pm    Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.]

CowpokeBob wrote:

On a side note tailgating, finger displaying and especially honking will only result in my going slower in an attempt to get you to go around me. (Or to piss you off further.) Something to think about.


While I am sympathetic to much of what you said, I submit that intentionally trying to "piss off" another driver may well be the most dangerous and anti social thing you can do on the road. I am surprised that a former police officer would even think of doing such a thing.

If I am being tailgated uncomfortably, I, too, slow down, but I only do it when there is no oncoming traffic, and I use my right turn signal, to indicate I need to be passed. The tailgater generally goes around me immediately on my turning on the turn signal, and then I turn it off and proceed on my way.
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Billsey



Joined: May 24, 2009
Posts: 26

Location: Oakville, Missouri, USA

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:54 am    Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.]

First of all, the incident that I have been referring to was going on in heavy traffic, so, no, the gapper was not driving the speed limit—not even close. In heavy traffic, yes, you keep a safe following distance—but you also KEEP UP WITH THE TRAFFIC. You do NOT lag behind it such that you are then being passed on all available sides at once. That does NOTHING for you and actually causes turbulence and accidents in the traffic flow—like a boulder placed in a stream. All you are doing is pissing other people off; if you're on the road for a power trip then you need to be off the road—perhaps permanently.

As to the motivation of the gapper in question, here is what I did:

I use my camera in my work, so when I 'm driving to work, I have it with me. In the case in question, when the gapper started misbehaving, I pulled out my camera, turned it on (didn't shoot any pictures or video, just turned it on), and held it on the steering wheel aimed at the gapper. The moment they looked in the rear view (and saw the camera aimed at them) they were off—they stopped gapping and hit the gas. Now, if they were not knowingly doing wrong, why did they react like that when they saw my camera?
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CowpokeBob



Joined: Feb 07, 2006
Posts: 1506

Location: South Carolina, USA

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:05 pm    Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.]

bern wrote:
CowpokeBob wrote:

On a side note tailgating, finger displaying and especially honking will only result in my going slower in an attempt to get you to go around me. (Or to piss you off further.) Something to think about.


While I am sympathetic to much of what you said, I submit that intentionally trying to "piss off" another driver may well be the most dangerous and anti social thing you can do on the road. I am surprised that a former police officer would even think of doing such a thing.

If I am being tailgated uncomfortably, I, too, slow down, but I only do it when there is no oncoming traffic, and I use my right turn signal, to indicate I need to be passed. The tailgater generally goes around me immediately on my turning on the turn signal, and then I turn it off and proceed on my way.


I happily admit to being anti-social but allow me to attempt to clarify my comment about pissing off tailgaters. I wasn't advocating intentionally adding to the road rage of other drivers by my comments. I was simply noting that the case may well be that they will be more stressed by my actions. All of which is easily avoided by not tailgating. I'll also counter that the most dangerous thing you can do on the highway is tailgate in the first place. In the event the driver in front of you has to make a sudden stop you will not be able to react in time to avoid them, no matter how good you think your reflexes are. It's as a result of my police experiences that I do it because if pissing tailgaters off a little gets them to back off (and it does) I'd rather have them mad at me than injured in an accident.
As to tactics, to be more specific, if there is traffic my favorite tactic is to tap the brakes lightly without actually slowing down, as a warning to the other driver to back off a bit. it works quite well and usually only takes one or two times for the other driver to get the idea. Only when I know they can safely pass (and occasionally when they stupidly pass anyway) do I actually slow down to allow them to get around me with less effort. Your use of a right turn signal achieves the same thing probably in that it would signal to them that you are about to slow down for a possible turn or to pull over.
I'll say it again. The roads are not a private course for anyone. I always attempt to be as courteous as possible when driving but I don't feel any need to take the blame for the shortcomings of others.
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CowpokeBob



Joined: Feb 07, 2006
Posts: 1506

Location: South Carolina, USA

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:25 pm    Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.]

Billsey wrote:
First of all, the incident that I have been referring to was going on in heavy traffic, so, no, the gapper was not driving the speed limit—not even close. In heavy traffic, yes, you keep a safe following distance—but you also KEEP UP WITH THE TRAFFIC. You do NOT lag behind it such that you are then being passed on all available sides at once. That does NOTHING for you and actually causes turbulence and accidents in the traffic flow—like a boulder placed in a stream. All you are doing is pissing other people off; if you're on the road for a power trip then you need to be off the road—perhaps permanently.

As to the motivation of the gapper in question, here is what I did:

I use my camera in my work, so when I 'm driving to work, I have it with me. In the case in question, when the gapper started misbehaving, I pulled out my camera, turned it on (didn't shoot any pictures or video, just turned it on), and held it on the steering wheel aimed at the gapper. The moment they looked in the rear view (and saw the camera aimed at them) they were off—they stopped gapping and hit the gas. Now, if they were not knowingly doing wrong, why did they react like that when they saw my camera?


Didn't mean to not respond to you earlier but I was on a tight schedule and ran out of time. I was pretty sure that was what you meant in your original post but everyone else got off on a tangent and I just had to throw in my two cents worth on that issue.

I agree with you for the most part that in moderate to heavy traffic it is accepted procedure to keep pace with the speed of the traffic, even if the traffic is moving in excess of the posted limit. You are also quite right that not doing so creates an unsafe condition and could cause accidents. (incidentally it could lead to a traffic citation as well since driving too slow for conditions creating the congestion you mentioned is a traffic violation, at least in this state). You mentioned passing the gapper on all available sides which tells me they wouldn't be in the slowest lane (far right lane here) where they belong to start with.

Your solution to the gapper you encountered was quite ingenious. I am definitely going to keep that one in mind though I don't often have a camera with me. There are a lot of reasons they might have reacted the way they did after spotting your camera but if I were to guess I would say they were scared by it. I know in my case I would be quite spooked to notice someone aiming a camera at me from another vehicle and would be inclined to put some distance between me and that person if I could. After all I would have no way of knowing why they were filming me or what their intentions were. Just my guess though you might keep it in mind. While you know you were not doing it for any untoward reasons your target may not see it that way and you could end up explaining yourself to a traffic officer, or worse.
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xavierx



Joined: Nov 06, 2004
Posts: 5438



PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:28 pm    Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.]

As someone who was hit and had his car totaled only a month ago because the person behind me wasn't paying enough attention and didn't leave enough of a gap, I'm now very fond of those "gappers"!!!

And in case anyone wants to argue that I was somehow at fault in getting hit from behind, I was 2 cars behind the person who "caused" the accident by cutting off the person in front of me on a highway where the speed limit is 55 mph. The person in front of me stopped and I stopped, but the person behind me hit me so hard that he pushed me into the car in front of me and totaled my minivan (both front and rear were crushed).

I also just got back from a 1750 mile round-trip vacation, almost exclusively on I-95. The speed limit was between 55 and 70. I stayed within 5 mph of the speed limit using the cruise control. I was passed quite frequently. It was also raining quite heavily for most of the trip, and some of those speeders ended up off the road into ditches and trees. Had I "kept up with traffic" I would have likely been one of them.

One final observation - the term is "speed limit", as in the maximum you are legally allowed to drive. It is by no means a minimum speed that you are required to travel. In fact, most of the states I was in on I-95 had a sign that said "Speed Limit 70 Minimum 45". If someone is going too slow for you, but still in the legal range, pass them! But stop the d*** aggressive driving that causes accidents like mine!
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kenmabmcc



Joined: Nov 20, 2003
Posts: 8251

Location: Dunedin, New Zealand.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:35 am    Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.]

Billsey wrote:
Now, if they were not knowingly doing wrong, why did they react like that when they saw my camera?


Any sensible person would want to get away from someone pointing a unknown object at them.

While you are fiddling around with your camera,
you are not concentrating on your driving.

Does it really matter if the journey takes an extra minute or two,
as long as you get to your destination safely ?

Wink
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xavierx



Joined: Nov 06, 2004
Posts: 5438



PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:04 pm    Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.]

All very good point, Ken.
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Billsey



Joined: May 24, 2009
Posts: 26

Location: Oakville, Missouri, USA

PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:16 am    Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.]

kenmabmcc wrote:
Billsey wrote:
Now, if they were not knowingly doing wrong, why did they react like that when they saw my camera?


While you are fiddling around with your camera,
you are not concentrating on your driving.


When you are doing 20-25 MPH in a zone that has a minimum speed 15-20 MPH higher than you are moving while stuck behind a vehicle that has wide open spaces directly in front of them there is plenty of time to concentrate on your driving while holding a camera on your steering wheel (because you're not actually using the camera, just holding it there). There is no reason to fear a camera if you are not doing wrong, but when this gapper saw the camera, they were out of there. I take that to mean that they knew they were doing wrong and the threat of evidence against them caused them to cease and desist.
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xavierx



Joined: Nov 06, 2004
Posts: 5438



PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:23 am    Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.]

So, why didn't you just go around like everyone else? Why a camera, why not beep your horn, the appropriate "weapon" to let someone know they're doing something dangerous?
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