System reboot - help 4

Blind_Pew · Joined: Oct 27, 2006 Posts: 168

Pc is starting to reboot,goes through post and splash screen (windows xp pro)
and just before long in will reboot.
I did memtest and receive error message (two sicks Crucial Ballistix 512 meg
each)board is MSI K8T Neo has three slots. I tred putting chips in different slots still errors running memtest. Took one stick out and ran test tried in each separate slot no error ran both sticks. Won't be able to try using other memory till Monday. Question why would error show on both together and not on single.Memory is matched set and three years old. Also set bios to detect timing on auto and setting manually when both are and still error.

thanks for help Blind_Pew

Baby_Tux · Joined: Mar 06, 2007 Posts: 1242

Blind_Pew wrote:

Pc is starting to reboot,goes through post and splash screen (windows xp pro)
and just before long in will reboot.
I did memtest and receive error message (two sicks Crucial Ballistix 512 meg
each)board is MSI K8T Neo has three slots. I tred putting chips in different slots still errors running memtest. Took one stick out and ran test tried in each separate slot no error ran both sticks. Won't be able to try using other memory till Monday. Question why would error show on both together and not on single.Memory is matched set and three years old. Also set bios to detect timing on auto and setting manually when both are and still error.

thanks for help Blind_Pew

First off, did they EVER work together? Or is this a new install?
What else may have been done at the time this started - anything you personally did or the computer did automatically.

Did you try:
stick A in slot 1
stick B in slot 1
stick A in slot 2
stick B in slot 2
stick A in slot 3
stick B in slot 3

Stick A in slot 1 w/ stick B in slot 2
Stick B in slot 1 w/ stick A in slot 2
Stick A in slot 2 w/ stick B in slot 3
Stick B in slot 2 w/ stick A in slot 3
Stick A in slot 1 w/ stick B in slot 3
Stick B in slot 1 w/ stick A in slot 3

(& any other combos I might of missed?)

Make sure that they are fully seated & locked - Some MB require the sticks to be installed in a certain way. (slots / pattern)You may want to check on that, too

To possibly answer your question, could be a problem with one of the slots or a malfunctioning MB as to how the BUS is functioning with two sticks. - I'm assuming that you intend to try another pair of sticks, that is what I'd do at this time. If you are purchasing them, & don't want to be stuck with them, ask about the return policy.

zlim · Joined: Mar 11, 2005 Posts: 2747

What chip (intel or AMD)? SP3 can cause non-intel chips to reboot. Was SP3 perhaps installed by auto update recently?

Blind_Pew · Joined: Oct 27, 2006 Posts: 168

Baby_Tux
Memory was installed 2005 had no problem until this week.
Tried different combinations with both sticks and still got error message.
Tried switching out video card and still errors. Did nothing else.Trying to borrow memory two of the same size.Pattern was slot 1&2 for best performance or slot 1&3

zlim
Its amd and I have had sp3 on it for a while and no problems.

Should have put this in first post
disabled reboot and got different error message.
Pfn list corrupt, another Irql not less or equal
Now with just one stick in no errors and

Thanks for quick reply really appreciate it

Baby_Tux · Joined: Mar 06, 2007 Posts: 1242

Kind of scanned through google on that error & it came up that RAM or HD bad, maybe even MB. So, IF you can get it to do so, try a full hardware scan. MB & HD especially.

It was also said to FULLY scan EACH stick of memory ONE AT A TIME. (7 passes - is what the article says) but I gathered you already did that.

At FIRST, I'd say RAM bad but the fact that you can get EITHER ONE, BY ITSELF to work is what is the puzzle. This is what is leading me to think it could be a MB socket problem. Especially if it is a socket that HAS to be used.

I tried to find the MEANING of the errors, and IRQL is an IRQ LEVEL issue. (KERNAL) It is how the CPU determines which IRQ has priority. It again points to RAM in this case but also COULD be other components. One thing mentioned, was NVIDIA drivers, do you have this card? You may want to start a process of eliminating other components or disabling them & see what happens. btw, if I recall correctly, each RAM socket has its own IRQ assignment.

Another thought - if you can get access to another computer that those sticks will work in & test them on that, you will know for sure about those sticks.

pcrattail · Joined: Jun 11, 2004 Posts: 406

OK......... found an article
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?id=334

Blind_Pew · Joined: Oct 27, 2006 Posts: 168

This was probably not a good thing to do. But it just kept bugging me.
What I did unplugged pc removed memory and took an alcohol prep pad and credit card. put the pad in memory slot and then used credit card to slide pad back an forth a couple times to clean slot did it to all three,let it dry for half hour did the same to contacts on memory.Ran memory test did not find any errors till twelfth pass rebooted ran test again 3 passes no errors.
Kinda embarrassed about the way i did it but it was better than using a wire brush.

pcrattail
thanks for link read the page and ran verifier no unassigned drivers
went to system tools and no conflicts there the error screen has not come up again.

Still going try different memory just to see what happens.

Baby_Tux,Zlim,Pcratail thanks for your help after awhile you just have to ask for an opinion see what someone else thinks makes things alot easier.

Again thanks Blind_Pew

drwho07 · Joined: Nov 29, 2007 Posts: 2240 Location: Central FL, USA

Ram seldom burns out. If it did the memtest would fail every time.

EDIT: Also, memory sticks don't all age at the same rate.
And, the one closest to the CPU gets blasted with dirt from the CPU cooling fan.
That dirt can change the impedance of the ram and cause it to no longer match the other stick. (or just fail, totally)... this causes an impedance mismatch between the sticks.
I'd start off by cleaning both ram sticks, to remove all the dirt.

What does happen though (and I remember you saying the ram was three years old) is that the CPU cooler blasts the ram with air that contains DIRT.
Witnessed by the amount of dirt that builds up in the CPU heatsink.

Modern ram works on voltage, not current, so it's very susceptible to anything getting between its little legs, shorting it out.
I've saved countless pieces of ram by just washing it.

I did a whole thread, a while back, on Washing Ram.

If you're squeamish about using soap and water, like I do, then use nothing but alcohol, and an old toothbrush to scrub with. Concentrate on the little legs along the sides of the ram chips.
Most of all, make sure the ram sticks are DRY before putting them back into the PC.

Every year, I save dozens of ram sticks, by just cleaning them. That only takes a few minutes and it's a whole lot cheaper than buying new ram. Wink

Works for me!

The Doctor Cool

Baby_Tux · Joined: Mar 06, 2007 Posts: 1242

rovingcowboy · Joined: Jan 26, 2003 Posts: 1515

never heard of it rebooting because of it being on amd zlim? Shocked

i have it in an amd and it does not cause a reboot. Cool

when did this happen and what are the parims... to get it to happen? Surprised

zlim · Joined: Mar 11, 2005 Posts: 2747

When SP3 came out for XP, and it was installed on an amd processor, this caused the reboot problem. HP came out with a fix because it happened to a lot of HP computers. Later MS came out with a fix.
http://msinfluentials.com/blogs/jesper/archive/2008/05/08/does-your-am...ased-co

rovingcowboy · Joined: Jan 26, 2003 Posts: 1515

oh okay so thats why it does not do it. thanks Cool

drwho07 · Joined: Nov 29, 2007 Posts: 2240 Location: Central FL, USA

"Different Strokes for Different Folks"

I use only AMD processors and I've installed SP3 on several of them so far,
without the rebooting problem ever rearing its ugly head.
I'd have to suspect that the problem goes a bit deeper than just the AMD processor.

Like maybe funky mobo's and Bios's used by some PC manufacturers.

Doc Cool

goretsky

Hello,

One possible thought is that the memory controller is failing. If you have access to another motherboard which uses the same type of memory, try installing the memory in it and running MemTest86+ against the system overnight to see if it returns any errors.

Another possibility, although very unlikely, is that the CPU has begun to fail. Installing it in a different motherboard and testing it might help determine if that is the problem.

DrWho07 is correct about the source of the problem of computers with AMD CPUs having trouble with Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 3. It seems the problem in most cases is due to "shortcuts" taken by the computer manufacturer when creating an operating system installations to use across multiple models that have power management device driver software incorrectly installed in them. There are some other issues as well with BIOSes and some devices, but the latter seemed to be the largest source of problems. The article ZLim referenced is an excellent source of information about the problem as well as steps to resolve it.

Regards,

Aryeh Goretsky

drwho07 · Joined: Nov 29, 2007 Posts: 2240 Location: Central FL, USA

I read the article in that link and found:

"If you have not yet installed SP3, make sure you disable, or better yet, remove, any anti-malware suite before doing so. If you do not, it is possible that you will get various kinds of corruption during the installation."

Software writers, like MS, have been telling people to do this for years and I can't even begin to recount how many times I've typed almost the same words in this and other forums. And still, how many people totally disregard the warnings and forge ahead installing all sorts of things with every program imaginable still running in the background.(?)

Then those same people, who blatantly ignored all the posted warnings, jump on some forum hollering for help because the install went wrong and their PC is all messed up. It's unfathomable!

I'm not pointing my finger at anyone in particular, because I see this same scenario on one forum after another, all across the internet.

So, for posterity's sake, I'll say it just one more time:
"Before you install any new Software on your PC, most especially any Service Packs, shut down all running programs on your PC.
Anti-Virus and any Active Scanners can be especially detrimental to installing new software".

Done

Doc Cool

Lacmagick · Joined: Jul 12, 2007 Posts: 5

recently had a client pc rebooting. it was discovered he had a mutant of the Antivirus 2008 trojan. event log displayed that rpc was shutting down along with other weird errors.