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jereece

Joined: Dec 06, 2002 Posts: 567
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Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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My problem is random automatic reboots (0-3 times a day). System specs are in the signature at the bottom. This is a new system I built just a few months ago. I took several parts from another computer including the processor. That computer had a problem with random automatic reboots as well.
I have had the problem from day one on this computer. Automatic reboots can occur while doing most anything, even while I am away (computer idle). I know this because I have a boot-up password. I receive no error message or warnings prior to an automatic reboot. Sometimes I do get a black screen with a mouse cursor that won't move, sometimes a BSOD, then eventually it reboots. However, most times it just reboots with no warning.
Here's what I have done so far.
1. The first thing I thought of was the RAM. I ran Memtest and did find a few errors (1 or 2 per complete test suite). I checked each ram module independently. Both had errors. I replaced the RAM, rechecked with Memtest and still got errors. I changed out the RAM with 2 other brands, and still get Memtest errors. However, I ran Microsoft's Memory Tester and found no errors. So I am not sure if RAM is a problem or if the errors can be attributed to something else.
2. CPU temp is normal. I have never seen a CPU temp over 52C. It can handle up to 85C.
3. Originally, I was getting some errors in Event Viewer. Most of them were related to TCPIP. I have resolved those errors, but still get random reboots. After a random reboot, I check Event Viewer and there are no errors or warning messages.
4. I disabled "Automatic Restart" in the Startup and Recovery section of System Properties. I thought this would stop the reboot process and provide an error message, but it did not. I still get the random automatic reboots and no error messages.
5. I ran Chkdsk on the hard drive. No problems.
6. I have run all the regular mainteance we so often discuss.
7. I have run several registry cleanup and error programs including RegClean, EasyClean, etc. Still random reboots.
8. I have checked for viruses and spyware - no problems
9. I checked the mouse, keyboard, monitor and USB connections to see if a loose connection or plug problem could be causing the reboots. No problems found.
10. I checked the hard drive cable and even replaced it to rule this out.
11. I ran a full system diagnostic on my hard drive using the manufacturer diagnostic software. No problems.
12. I Checked the BIOS. Verified that Memory & Clocking are set to automatic detection. I am not overclocking.
13. I checked the power supply using a Power Supply tester. No problems.
14. I downloaded and installed the latest MB drivers.
15. I ran a couple different torchure tests. After only a few seconds at 100% CPU capacity, I get BSOD.
After all this, I am thinking the problem may be the processor or motherboard.
As I said, the processor came from another system which also had automatic rebooting problems. It's strange that both have the same problem and the common link between the two is the processor. I have an older processor that will work on this board. I may swap it out and see if automatic reboots go away. I am thinking this will confirm or eliminate the processor as the culprit.
The MB may also be the problem. It's a brand new board, however the onboard audio on this board has never worked. I had to add an audio card. I am wondering if the audio connections were bad, is there something else wrong with he MB that could be causing the reboots.
Although I think it is unlikely that the problem is the memory (because 4 different modules from 3 different manufacturers showed errors), I have noticed that the random reboots seem more prevalent when I am running 2 modules (1 Gig total) versus only one module.
Any thoughts or suggestions? Can anyone recommend other things to look at?
Thanks for your help.
Jim |
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Fastway

Joined: Dec 14, 2002 Posts: 1951
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Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Try a bootable linux cd it should load all to the ram and may prove more. But it does sound like a MOBO problem, with the errors you are getting, ram is controlled by the MOBO.
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Rons

Joined: Dec 07, 2002 Posts: 5667
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Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 12:23 am Post subject: |
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Try a bootable linux cd it should load all to the ram and may prove more. But it does sound like a MOBO problem, with the errors you are getting, ram is controlled by the MOBO.
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That's what it sounds like. I'd be suspect since the sound hasn't woked since you got it.
3 letters = RMA |
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piratinghacker

Joined: May 20, 2004 Posts: 8
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Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:06 am Post subject: |
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ive had this problem with a few of the computers ive used before...
the problem was usually a bad power supply.... you might try that... |
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Rons

Joined: Dec 07, 2002 Posts: 5667
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Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 11:48 am Post subject: |
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ive had this problem with a few of the computers ive used before...
the problem was usually a bad power supply.... you might try that...
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Wouldn't hurt to swap the PS. Even though the testor showed it was good. It might be failing under load.
And check the caps:
Bad Caps
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jereece

Joined: Dec 06, 2002 Posts: 567
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Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 11:50 am Post subject: |
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ive had this problem with a few of the computers ive used before...
the problem was usually a bad power supply.... you might try that...
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From above,
"13. I checked the power supply using a Power Supply tester. No problems." I also switched power supplies. Still have the same problem. I don't see any obviously bad capacitors.
Is there any potential that the problem is in the processor? Remember the processor came from another system that also had automatic reboot problems. |
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chawky

Joined: Mar 28, 2004 Posts: 2
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| did you use same video card from old system i had this problem it was a bad video card |
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jereece

Joined: Dec 06, 2002 Posts: 567
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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did you use same video card from old system i had this problem it was a bad video card
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Per my sig, video is onboard. Thanks for the thought however. |
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Werebo

Joined: Aug 09, 2003 Posts: 4077
Location: SE London, UK...
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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Allo Jereece
From your description and diagnosis, plus all the suggestions so far, I'd be tempted to try swapping the CPU for your t'other one and see if that does cure it
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Morbius

Joined: Sep 05, 2005 Posts: 1712
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Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:17 am Post subject: |
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Just a word of caution for those who already have one of them neat little PSU testers. :hmm:
The tester will separate the good supplies from totally dead ones.
But, what it can't do is identify a weak or failing PSU. Why? Because it tests the PSU under a NO-Load condition.
I've seen PSU's that test OK with the tester, totally fail to boot up a system.
The ideal PSU tester would go "IN LINE" between the PSU and the mobo, so it could look at the voltage levels while under full load from the entire PC.
The PSU itself only does a partial job of supplying regulated power to specific items on the mobo. The mobo itself has many power regulators that control the actual voltages supplied to CPU and Ram, for instance.
If one of those regulators fails, all bets are off. You're experiencing a loss of power, with a perfectly good main PSU. Only changing the mobo itself will fix that particular problem.
Good Luck,
Morbius  |
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goretsky

Joined: Dec 07, 2002 Posts: 8733
Location: Southern California
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:32 am Post subject: |
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Hello,
Do you have another known-good computer in which to test the processor and memory?
Regards,
Aryeh Goretsky
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jereece

Joined: Dec 06, 2002 Posts: 567
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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I have another computer, but it's not rated for this processor or the memory. However, I can take the processor out of that computer and put it on this board to see if the board is really the problem. Or, I have already asked for a replacement board, so when it arrives I will then retest to see if the problem is fixed. If not, then I will get an RMA on the processor.
I guess it's just a process of elimination.
Thanks,
Jim |
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Morbius

Joined: Sep 05, 2005 Posts: 1712
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Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:54 am Post subject: |
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Jer,
Whilest you're still in test mode,
Try this: Boot from a floppy with Memtest86 on it and begin the memory test (burn-in) and let it run for a day.
There should be NO ram errors at all. If there are, remove the ram and clean it thoroughly with alcohol and an old toothbrush. Buff up the edge connector while you're at it. Dry the ram for several hours and reinstall and repeat the test.
Once the test starts, remove the boot disk. If the thing reboots, you don't want it going right back into the test.
That way if you're away from the PC and it reboots, you'll know it when you return.
That will work the ram and the CPU and many of the circuits on the mobo as well as the video.
Also, doing the test that way takes your hd and OS out of the picture.
Let me know what's happening. OK?
Morbius
PS: You've mentioned the CPU several times. Did you remove it and reseat it? Did you check to make sure there's plenty of heat sink grease between the chip and the heat sink? Is the CPU cooling fan clean and turning freely?
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jereece

Joined: Dec 06, 2002 Posts: 567
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Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Morbius. I have tried 4 different ram modules from 3 different manufacturers. All of the modules were brand new. So I would not think they all need cleaning. I did reseat the CPU and did check and reapply the grease. I have run memtest a number of times. I get errors on all brands of memory. SoI don't think it's the ram. Also, the cooling fan is working properly.
Let me know if I forgot something. I am shipping the MB tomorrow morning.
Thanks,
Jim |
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Gary66

Joined: Sep 01, 2005 Posts: 8353
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Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| I would not trust the Microsoft memory tester. You may have bad memory slots ergo a bad MOBO. |
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jereece

Joined: Dec 06, 2002 Posts: 567
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Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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I would not trust the Microsoft memory tester. You may have bad memory slots ergo a bad MOBO.
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That is what I suspect and why I am returning for a replacement.
Jim |
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usasma

Joined: May 06, 2003 Posts: 5007
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Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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If Windows doesn't recognize an error - then the error is below the threshold that Windows recognizes (ie - hardware).
You're getting errors in the memory test - so there's a problem with the memory - not necessarily the memory modules. There's a lot of other places that those signals travel before they're displayed as errors on your screen.
Since the same problem occurred with the processor in another system - I'd suspect the processor right off the bat (plus, if it's able to be RMA'd - it's easier to remove than the mobo). After that it becomes a piece by piece elimination of the problem. After that would be the mobo.
Otherwise, what I'd suggest is stripping everything but the Case, PSU, mobo, CPU and cooler, graphics card, monitor and keyboard. Then boot with a DOS disk and see if it reboots. If so, the problem is with one of those parts - if not, they're presumed good.
If it's not good - then it's one of those parts. Try to find known good parts that you can substitute for them (to save you some $'s) and substitute them one by one to locate the culprit. The only impractical piece to do this with is the motherboard - so leave it for last if you're doing the switch and check.
If they're good, add the boot hard drive next and boot to Windows, then the mouse, then everything else - one by one until you locate the culprit. |
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jereece

Joined: Dec 06, 2002 Posts: 567
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Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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Good News! I finally received my replacement motherboard. I installed it on Friday and successfully ran a system torchure test all night with no problems. Since then I have had no automatic reboot problems. So clearly the MB was bad.
For what it's worth, I purchased the MB through NewEgg.com. I wanted to order a new MB and return the bad one for a refund, however I was past the 30days. So, NewEgg agreed to pay my overnight FedEx fee (~$1 and then return the MB FedEx overnight. So NewEgg paid a ~$36 in shipping fees to get me a fast turn around. I have always liked dealing with NewEgg.
Thanks again for all the suggestions and help.
Jim |
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Werebo

Joined: Aug 09, 2003 Posts: 4077
Location: SE London, UK...
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Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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Congrats on getting it fixed Jereece :thumbup: and thanks for getting back with a result ...
(It's a good feeling when it's all finally fixed, isn't it?.. hehehehehehehe )
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jereece

Joined: Dec 06, 2002 Posts: 567
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Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:35 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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Well my last post was back in March and I "thought" I had fixed this very frustrating problem, but about a week after making the last post, I started getting random automatic reboots again! So I had literally changed every component in the whole computer. Nothing was the same as the original.
So I began looking outside the comptuer. I replaced the surge protector, I checked the power outlet and tried a differnt one, I changed the keyboard and mouse then I finally unplugged my scanner. Hmmm. I unplugged my scanner. I noticed in Event Viewer that, while I was not getting any error messages, the last entry prior to the automatic reboot was The Service Control Manager made an information log entry saying that the "The Windows Image Acquisition (WIA) service entered the running state." Hmmmm. Window Image Acquition and scanner. Sounds like there could be a link.
Since I unplugged my scanner, I have not had a random automatic reboot in over 3 months. So I think I can say that I have finally solved this problem once and for all. The lesson learned here is that external devices can cause problems like this and even though it may not create an error in Event Viewer, you need to look very close at the last entry prior to the problem initiating. It could be a clue.
I hate it took so long to find the problem and the cost of replacing parts. However I took the old parts, built another computer and sold it. So I got some money back.
Thanks for the support.
Jim |
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