|
|
| Next: What to do with $530 TRILLION |
| Author |
Message |
swordofdestiny
Joined: Sep 25, 2008
Posts: 164
|
 Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:05 pm Post subject: Is Obama even legally eligible to be President? |
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
drwho07
Joined: Nov 29, 2007
Posts: 1546
Location: Central FL, USA
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Whether he's a legal American or not makes little difference to me because,
I just don't like the guy.
Some wee small voice tells me he's just wrong, very wrong!
And if he does get elected president, I'm joining the thousands of others who will LEAVE this country.
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mommabear
Joined: Feb 20, 2003
Posts: 6319
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:49 pm Post subject: Re: Is Obama even legally eligible to be President? [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
|
|
| swordofdestiny wrote: |
http://www.nicenetruth.com/home/2008/10/the-october-sur.html
Note: This suit is not being perpetrated by a Republican, but a Democrat. If he's a true natural born citizen, why doesn't he provide his birth certificate to the judge?
Here's some more from this lawsuit.
http://www.obamacrimes.com/index.php/component/content/article/1-main/...phil-j-
And don't point to his birth certificate being on his website. Why can't he provide it to the judge in that case? It would end the suit effectively. Then the Indonesia Issue. |
While IMHO I think it's great that you've recently found an interest in today's politics (judging from your membership date), I have to tell you that you're a day late and a dollar short with this "revelation".
| Quote: |
A separate eRumor containing an article by Jon Dryer has recently gained momentum on the super information highway claiming that an order was issued by Judge R. Barclay Surrick. On October 3, 2008, a Deputy Clerk for US District Court Judge R. Barclay Surrick, who is presiding over the case, told truthorfiction.com that no decision had been rendered at this time and, contrary to any reports, no order has been issued for Barack Hussein Obama to present his birth certificate. When a lawyer files a motion he must also supply the court with the order and an unsigned copy was posted on the court website. Click for truthorfiction.com findings.
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/l/lawyersues.htm
CLICK here for fact check dot org findings
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
This eRumor erupted in October, 2008 when an article by Jon Dryer was posted on NewsWithViews.com, which has since been retracted. In it, Dryer claimed that Judge R. Barclay Surrick had made a decision in the case and had ordered Obama to present the court with evidence that he is an American citizen.
Truthorfiction.com spoke to Judge Surrick's clerk who told us that as of October 7, 2008, the Judge had yet to make a decision on the matter and when motions are filed with the court all documents and orders are also submitted so all a judge had to do was hear the case, render his decision and sign the order. This order was posted on the court website and waited for the judges decision. The court web site showed that there have been many motions and some additional filings of evidence in this case since this motion.
Truthorfiction.com sent an email to author Jon Dryer and after he confirmed this process with some lawyers and he indicated that he had retracted the article.
When Judge Surrick makes his decision the posted order will be signed and dated by the Judge and updated on the court web site.
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/o/obama-ordered-by-judge.htm |
We all know that searching at at Lockergnome prior to posting blows big time. But a great alternative would be Google. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
swordofdestiny
Joined: Sep 25, 2008
Posts: 164
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:59 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
|
|
I didn't say that he had an order yet. The second link is Mr. Berg's amended complaint. It's a good read, especially point 53. I just pointed out Mr. Berg's case and also pointed out that the case would be over if he would show his birth certificate, it would immediately end it without the judge having to order him to. If I was Barack, I would, since it would immediately end the case. Of course, since he isn't, leads me to infer that he doesn't have one. If you watch the video I posted it rebuts the online posting of his birth certificate. Maya, his half sister, has said that he was born in two different hospitals in Hawaii. One more time, I did not state that he was ordered to present his birth certificate. I'm just asking, why keep the lawsuit going if it could be immediately ended by showing his birth certificate?
I've been around Lockergnome for about 6 years, just not in the forum. I tend to stay in IRC, haha. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mommabear
Joined: Feb 20, 2003
Posts: 6319
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:16 am Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
|
|
| swordofdestiny wrote: |
I didn't say that he had an order yet. The second link is Mr. Berg's amended complaint. It's a good read, especially point 53. I just pointed out Mr. Berg's case and also pointed out that the case would be over if he would show his birth certificate, it would immediately end it without the judge having to order him to. If I was Barack, I would, since it would immediately end the case. Of course, since he isn't, leads me to infer that he doesn't have one. If you watch the video I posted it rebuts the online posting of his birth certificate. Maya, his half sister, has said that he was born in two different hospitals in Hawaii. One more time, I did not state that he was ordered to present his birth certificate. I'm just asking, why keep the lawsuit going if it could be immediately ended by showing his birth certificate?
I've been around Lockergnome for about 6 years, just not in the forum. I tend to stay in IRC, haha. |
I don't really know, but here's my take on it. Why bother giving this frivolous suit more attention than it deserves? Last I heard, a lot of people, and who are mostly of the conservative persuasion, don't have much regard for lawyers...until they need one themselves.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
swordofdestiny
Joined: Sep 25, 2008
Posts: 164
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:23 am Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
|
|
| mommabear wrote: |
| swordofdestiny wrote: |
I didn't say that he had an order yet. The second link is Mr. Berg's amended complaint. It's a good read, especially point 53. I just pointed out Mr. Berg's case and also pointed out that the case would be over if he would show his birth certificate, it would immediately end it without the judge having to order him to. If I was Barack, I would, since it would immediately end the case. Of course, since he isn't, leads me to infer that he doesn't have one. If you watch the video I posted it rebuts the online posting of his birth certificate. Maya, his half sister, has said that he was born in two different hospitals in Hawaii. One more time, I did not state that he was ordered to present his birth certificate. I'm just asking, why keep the lawsuit going if it could be immediately ended by showing his birth certificate?
I've been around Lockergnome for about 6 years, just not in the forum. I tend to stay in IRC, haha. |
I don't really know, but here's my take on it. Why bother giving this frivolous suit more attention than it deserves? Last I heard, a lot of people, and who are mostly of the conservative persuasion, don't have much regard for lawyers...until they need one themselves. |
Frivolous? You think that verifying whether someone is legally eligible to be President of the United States is frivolous? I think it's a valid concern. I'm very interested in the lawsuit. The Constitution clearly states that you have to be a natural born citizen of the United States to run for President, otherwise we'd probably have Schwarzenegger running. Again I ask, why let it stay in court, why not end it by showing his birth certificate? This judge really needs to make his decision. Why doesn't he release his college records? I mean in two days for Joe the Plumber we know about his tax history, etc. McCain proved that he was a natural born citizen, why can't Obama? I'm sorry, but if you can consider an implication that someone who possibly isn't qualified to be President may be elected to be "frivolous," how much regard do you actually have about the Constitution? Also, I have a lot of respect for lawyers. Law school is no simple task to complete and takes a dedicated person to complete. Oh and if you're interested, that little test thing they give you in U.S. Government class, I was exactly halfway between populist and libertarian and about two ticks on the conservative side. I was also within the little box of which supposedly most presidents will come from. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ejward
Joined: Jan 06, 2003
Posts: 7054
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:08 am Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
|
|
it's a stupid requirement anyway. It was put in the constitution because, at the time, the laws to become a citizen varied by state. Some states required you to be born in the US, some states only required you to own land. Being a natrual born citizen prevented the king of England from running for President and basically undoing the entire revolution. When citizenship became a federal law, the "natrual born citizen" requirement should have been dumped. Now, it would be a political nightmare to change.
in my opinon, natrualized citizens are even more American than i am. They had to take a test. i just had to be born here. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
swordofdestiny
Joined: Sep 25, 2008
Posts: 164
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:18 am Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
|
|
| That doesn't change the fact that someone who is possibly not eligible by law to become President may be elected this fall. There needs to be bigger attention drawn to this case. Do we uphold the Constitution, or do we only use it when it benefits us? I'm a firm believer in upholding the Constitution because without it, we wouldn't be the United States of America. As for it being a stupid requirement, what is so stupid about wanting the person that leads our country, represents us in the UN, etc to be someone born and bred in our great country? Yes, I'm quite aware that some people who immigrate have a better understanding of our history than some of our people do. Maybe at 18 years of age we should implement a citizenship test and those that fail have to go through the same process as immigrants. That's a bit extreme though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mommabear
Joined: Feb 20, 2003
Posts: 6319
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:47 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
|
|
| Quote: |
| I'm a firm believer in upholding the Constitution because without it,... |
If that were true, you wouldn't be supporting McCain-Bush. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
swordofdestiny
Joined: Sep 25, 2008
Posts: 164
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:46 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
|
|
| Really? Are you insinuating that I'm a liar? It can't be that I don't agree with the principles of the Democratic party? Last time I checked, the Constitution didn't support socialism. And why would I not support McCain or Bush? Show me where they violated the Constitution. Also, McCain isn't Bush. He may have voted similarly, but didn't Obama vote similar to Clinton (if he was in Congress when the Clinton administration was there)? I mean seriously, if you guys wanted to run against Bush, you should have had Obama run four years ago instead of John "I'm not Bush! So vote for me!" Kerry. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
silmaril8n
Joined: Jan 29, 2004
Posts: 1743
Location: Phoenix, AZ
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:52 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
|
|
| I thought this issue was mildly interesting until I woke up and took off my tinfoil hat. If it was an issue then McCain would have (and should have) been all over it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
swordofdestiny
Joined: Sep 25, 2008
Posts: 164
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:57 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
|
|
| Well, it could be a campaign strategy. If he jumped on it back in August, who would replace Obama? Clinton. They could be waiting until it gets closer to the election. It could be like mommabear said, "Last I heard, a lot of people, and who are mostly of the conservative persuasion, don't have much regard for lawyers..." I really don't know. I just want to see how this suit plays out. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sgt Schultz
Joined: Dec 07, 2002
Posts: 7378
Location: St. Louis area
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:11 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
|
|
| silmaril8n wrote: |
| I thought this issue was mildly interesting until I woke up and took off my tinfoil hat. If it was an issue then McCain would have (and should have) been all over it. |
Not only that but in the course of running his security clearance for being a Senator this would have been uncovered. As mommabear has already shown this has already been addressed:
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
The US code about being born in Hawaii is quite clear.
§ 1405. Persons born in Hawaii
| Quote: |
| A person born in Hawaii on or after August 12, 1898, and before April 30, 1900, is declared to be a citizen of the United States as of April 30, 1900. A person born in Hawaii on or after April 30, 1900, is a citizen of the United States at birth. A person who was a citizen of the Republic of Hawaii on August 12, 1898, is declared to be a citizen of the United States as of April 30, 1900. |
John McCain was born in Panama but is also a US citizen. The law is quite clear on that also.
§ 1403. Persons born in the Canal Zone or Republic of Panama on or af... Februa
| Quote: |
(a) Any person born in the Canal Zone on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this chapter, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such person was or is a citizen of the United States, is declared to be a citizen of the United States.
(b) Any person born in the Republic of Panama on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this chapter, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such person was or is a citizen of the United States employed by the Government of the United States or by the Panama Railroad Company, or its successor in title, is declared to be a citizen of the United States. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
swordofdestiny
Joined: Sep 25, 2008
Posts: 164
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:43 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
|
|
Okay, well obviously, you didn't read the suit...
http://www.obamacrimes.com/index.php/component/content/article/1-main/...phil-j-
| Quote: |
44. The laws in Indonesia at the time of Obama’s arrival did not allow dual citizenship. If an Indonesian citizen married a foreigner, as in this case, Obama’s mother was required to renounce her U.S. citizenship and was sponsored by her Indonesian spouse. During this time, Indonesia was a Police State. The public schools did not allow foreign students, only citizens were allowed to attend as Indonesia was under strict rule and decreed a number of restrictions; therefore, in order for Obama to have attended school in Jakarta, which he did, he had to be a citizen of Indonesia, as the citizenship status of enrolled students was verified with Government records.
45. Obama was enrolled by his parents in a public school, Fransiskus Assisi School, a public school, in Jakarta, Indonesia. Plaintiff has received copies of the school registration in which it clearly states Obama’s name as “Barry Soetoro,” and lists his citizenship as Indonesian. Obama’s father is listed as Lolo Soetoro, Obama’s date of birth and place of birth are listed as August 4, 1961 in Hawaii, and Obama’s Religion is listed as Islam. This document was verified by Inside Edition, whose reporter, Matt Meagher, took the actual footage of the school record. At the time Obama was registered the public schools obtained and verified the citizenship status and name of the student through the Indonesian Government. All Indonesian students were required to carry government identity cards, or Karty Tanda Pendudaks, as well as family card identification called a Kartu Keluarga. The Kartu Keluarga is a family card which bears the legal names and citizenship status of all family members.
46. Since Obama’s birth was legally acknowledged by Lolo Soetoro, an Indonesian citizen, and/or Obama was adopted by Lolo Soetoro, which the evidence supports, Obama became an Indonesian citizen and bears the status as an Indonesia natural child (natural-born). For this reason, Obama would have been required to file applications with the U. S. State Department and follow the legal procedures to become a naturalized citizen in the United States, when he returned from Indonesia. If Obama and/or his family failed to follow these procedures, then Obama is an illegal alien.
47. Regardless of whether Obama was officially adopted, (which required a Court process), by his Indonesian stepfather, Lolo Soetoro, or his birth was acknowledged (which only required the signing of a governmental birth acknowledgement form), by Lolo Soetoro, one of which had to occur in order for Obama to have the name Barry Soetoro and his citizenship status listed as “Indonesian”, in either and/or both cases Obama’s name was required to be changed to the Indonesian father’s name, and Obama became a natural citizen of Indonesia. This is proven by the school records in Jakarta, Indonesia showing Obama’s name as Barry Soetoro and his citizenship as Indonesian. Again, the registration of a child in the public schools in Jakarta, Indonesia was verified with the Government Records on file with the Governmental Agencies.
48. The Indonesian citizenship law was designed to prevent apatride (stateless) or bipatride (dual citizenship). Indonesian regulations recognize neither apatride nor bipatride citizenship.
49. In addition, since Indonesia did not allow dual citizenship neither did the United States, Hague Convention of 1930.
53. Furthermore, Obama traveled to Indonesia, Pakistan and Southern India in 1981. The relations between Pakistan and India were extremely tense and Pakistan was in turmoil and under martial law. The country was filled with Afghan refugees; and Pakistan's Islamist-leaning Interservices Intelligence Agency (ISI) had begun to provide arms to the Afghan mujahideen and to assist the process of recruiting radicalized Muslim men--jihadists--from around the world to fight against the Soviet Union. Pakistan was so dangerous that it was on the State Department's travel ban list for US Citizens. Non-Muslim visitors were not welcome unless sponsored by their embassy for official business. A Muslim citizen of Indonesia traveling on an Indonesian passport would have success entering Indonesia, Pakistan and India. Therefore, it is believed Obama traveled on his Indonesian passport entering the Countries. Indonesian passports require renewal every five (5) years. At the time of Obama’s travels to Indonesia, Pakistan and India, Obama was twenty (20) years old. If Obama would have been a U.S. citizen, which he was not, 8 USC §1481(a)(2) provides loss of nationality by native born citizens upon "taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state...after having attained the age of eighteen years”, in violation of 8 U.S.C. §1401(a)(1). Since Lolo Soetoro legally acknowledged Obama as his son and/or adopted Obama, Obama was a “natural” citizen of Indonesia, as proven by Obama’s school record. |
These points are quite relevant. There's more at that link. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kenmabmcc
Joined: Nov 20, 2003
Posts: 8181
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand.
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:32 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
|
|
This is well hacked over irrelevant twaddle.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
swordofdestiny
Joined: Sep 25, 2008
Posts: 164
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:16 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
|
|
| Excuse me, but what is irrelevant about wanting to make sure that our candidates are actually eligible to be President? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pasquanel
Joined: Jun 20, 2005
Posts: 507
Location: Maine
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:59 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
|
|
| swordofdestiny wrote: |
| Excuse me, but what is irrelevant about wanting to make sure that our candidates are actually eligible to be President? |
Don't start hyperventilating here my friend you aren't going to get a fair shake! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pcrattail
Joined: Jun 11, 2004
Posts: 406
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:18 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
|
|
YES SA MA STA
I BE GIVENS my PAY PAS
............................
DIDN'T slavory END at some POINT?
When did WE re-institute that a Black Man had to "SHOW" his papers to the White Man??
............................
THE Public DOES not NEED to KNOW .. IF OR NOT .. he is a CITIZEN.
OUR Government is the ONLY ones who HAS to know.
And I can BET a DOLLAR to DONUTS that the IRS and OTHER major AGENCIES can CONTEST to the VALIDITY of CANDIDACY.
...........................
This was JUST another SCARE TACTIC .... brought to you by the REPUBLICANS .. to SHACKLE the minds of AMERICANS to the ANTIQUATED notion that ANYONE not 100 PERCENT AMERICAN LOOKING (sounds Hitlerish) is OUT to EAT their CHILDREN , RAPE their WIFES, STEAL their JOBS, and BURN their HOMES and TAKE OVER their COUNTRY.
HOLLY CRAP !! THEY do have it correct.
WE already DID that to the NATIVE AMERICANS (the REAL owners of this COUNTRY). No WONDER we can BECOME so afraid of it...... WE did it already. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ejward
Joined: Jan 06, 2003
Posts: 7054
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:45 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
|
|
| Uhhh ... wow ... ummmm ...... I'm not sure what to say. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mommabear
Joined: Feb 20, 2003
Posts: 6319
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:51 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
|
|
| ejward wrote: |
| Uhhh ... wow ... ummmm ...... I'm not sure what to say. |
How about ... pcrattail doesn't like to mince his words? lol!
Welcome pc, btw. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
| |
|
|
General