Networking problem - help 28

Nisseviking · Joined: Aug 04, 2004 Posts: 62

Hi all you networking gurus!

I have some problems with my home network that is set up in the following way:

From the WAN I have a DSL modem connected to a D-link router (R1), with NAT and DNS enabled. The address space on the LAN side i 192.168.0.x. (LAN1).
To this LAN I have connected the "WAN side" of a Zyxel router (R2) also with NAT and DNS enabled. The address space on the R2 LAN side i 192.168.1.x. (LAN2).
The reason for this maybe somewhat strange set up is that the Zyxel also supports Wireless LAN which the D-link does not, and I want to have part of my network accessable from anywhere in the house.
Computers connected to LAN1 can access the internet and so can computers on LAN2, so it seems everything would be working OK.

But there are two problems that I haven't been able to solve:
1. Computers on LAN1 don't see the computers on LAN2, and vice versa.
No ping response, no nothing.

2. Computers on LAN2 ping each other OK, but when I try to set up a network they don't "see" each other. On the other hand, if I connect the same computers to LAN1 there is no problem to set up a network between them.

Disabling the firewalls in all computers doesn't help.

The wireless connection to R2 works OK (as long I am only trying to connect to the internet), and the networking problem is still there if I connect everything via the Ethernet ports.

I have tried playing with the port forwarding function in R2, but I'm not sure that I understand how to set it up correctly. Anyhow, no success there either.

Computers running WinXP and NT4.0

Would appreciate any ideas on how to configure the routers properly

Nisse

goretsky

Hello,

The simplest thing to do would be to remove the D-Link router and plug the ADSL modem directly into the WAN port on the Zyxel router. If you need additional Ethernet ports, connect an Ethernet switch (or a hub) to one of the LAN ports on the Zyxel router.

Regards,

Aryeh Goretsky

Nisseviking · Joined: Aug 04, 2004 Posts: 62

Thanks Aryeh for your reply.

This is of course the simple solution, but for a number of reasons I would really like to stick with the present configuration. I. e. two LAN:s with the "inner one" also supporting Wireless.
Any other ideas please?

BudDurland · Joined: Dec 05, 2002 Posts: 522

The problem is that the Zyxel router is doing exactly what it's supposed to do; preventing unsolicited incoming connections from what it considers "the wan".

The problem with computers on LAN2 not seeing each other -- check to make sure they are all configured for the same workgroup name. Also, some broadband routers will block some networking protocols.

How about configuring the Zyxel to be a wireless access point instead of a router?

Or, have some fun -- visit the smoothwall router project and use an old PC to create a real router.

Baby_Tux · Joined: Mar 06, 2007 Posts: 1242

To connect to like (or similar) LANS, you will need a bridge.

Here is a link that explains this>>> LINK

---read the intro---

Nisseviking · Joined: Aug 04, 2004 Posts: 62

Thanks guys for your input

BudDurland · Joined: Dec 05, 2002 Posts: 522

You can't really use port forwarding. A broadband router generally uses one-to-many NAT to provide internet access. So, although there's several hosts on the "LAN" side, all the "WAN" side sees is one device; the router. You can usually do a small amount of port forwarding, for example forwarding incoming SMTP requests on the WAN side to a single specific Ip address on the LAN side.

Many of the current generation of broadband routers have a set up option to use Wireless Access Point (WAP) mode instead of "router" mode. In some installations, this is a better configuration. However, be aware of a couple things that will probably happen in WAP mode:

The Zyxel will no longer be a router; it will be an end node.

the Zyxel will be a member of LAN1

You will probably not be able to plug hard-wired PC's into Zyxel, using it as a switch. The only cable it can have is the one that leads to the other router. (this may or may not be true; my experience is with Belkin and US robotics, and they both worked that way)

Any PC that connects over the wireless will be a member of LAN1

Baby_Tux · Joined: Mar 06, 2007 Posts: 1242

Here is what I picture you SHOULD have:

*****************************|--------------router1-----LAN1
*****************************|
*****************************|
ISP -------Main Router----Bridge---|
*****************************|
*****************************|------------Router2 -----LAN2

---the "*" are to get the spaceing - just ignore---

Router 1 & 2 can be what you have on your lans right now.
The "main router" is so your ISP will only "see one connection" so you will only need one IP address from them. The bridge ties your two lans together so that they can communicate with each other & the internet.

essbebe · Joined: Dec 13, 2007 Posts: 84

@nisseviking.

Please specify the model numbers of the units. and number of computers in each LAN.
ADSl2 modem/router1/wifi router 2( modem+router+wifi ?)

Nisseviking · Joined: Aug 04, 2004 Posts: 62

@Baby_Tux
I see what you mean, but I don't understand why I would need the bridge. IMHO it should be possible to connect Router 1 and 2 directly to the main router. Pls educate me if this isn't so.

@essbebe
ADSL modem: Alcatel Speed Touch home
Router 1: D-Link DI-604
Router 2: Zyxel P-320W

2 computers each on LAN 1 and 2.
3 running SP Home SP1, 1 running Win NT4.0 Workstation

essbebe · Joined: Dec 13, 2007 Posts: 84

For reference :
http://www.petri.co.il/upgrade_from_home_to_pro.htm
sorry.
will edit later . Morning here 0700IST 0130 UTC. . Going out.

Baby_Tux · Joined: Mar 06, 2007 Posts: 1242

The more I delve into this, the more confused I'M getting as to how to go about what I THINK you are trying to do. So as not to start you down the wrong path, give me a week & I'll get you your answer.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You can connect them as you stated BUT they wouldn't see one another.

You have two lans with NOT ROUTABLE IP addresses. The bridge "acts as a translator" (per say) for these addresses. - see the link I provided earlier.

BTW: you CAN get bridged routers (router & bridge in one)
After doing some more looking, A switch probably would work better in your case.

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essbebe · Joined: Dec 13, 2007 Posts: 84

@goretsky : suggestion ok. here I am trying the same idea but DI-LB604 is used instead of a switch.

References :
No.1
http://www.petri.co.il/upgrade_from_home_to_pro.htm Alcatel speedtouch home Adsl modem.
No.2
http://www.dlink.com/products/?sec=0&pid=452
DI-LB604 Load Balancing router.
Dual WAN Ports and Four LANports
No 3.
http://www.zyxel.com/web/support_download_result.php p320W
A.quick start guide 4 MB
B. Data sheet 168KB
Driver/Firmware Vista support not required.
Vista Utility support not required.

---------------------------------------------------------
Para two : Option A.
1. Please reconnect as per this diagram.
http://i28.tinypic.com/11ubz9u.jpg[/IMG] P320W
Now I could not find DI604 and presume you have DI-LB604.
2.Connect DI-LB604 ( WAN or LAN) to one of the LAN ports of P320W.
3. Presume you have enabled DHCP in the adsl modem and use
same range 192.168.1.3 to 192.168.1.30 for both LANs.
Modem==>>P320W== 3 computers(lan1,2,3,) and Wireless
LAN4===>>WAN (or LAN?)of DI-LB604 (4 or 3 computers.)

Option B: same as A1.
From ADSL modem if USB Port available ===>>> WAN port of DI-LB604
( port range same as above )
In all computers TCP/IP select assign IP address automatically.
Hope this helps.

Nisseviking · Joined: Aug 04, 2004 Posts: 62

Baby_Tux · Joined: Mar 06, 2007 Posts: 1242

Baby_Tux · Joined: Mar 06, 2007 Posts: 1242

OK - I hope you haven't done or bought anything yet as I was wrong on what I said & I believe I totally misinformed you. For this I most sincerely apologize.

But considering that I DID say I was getting confused & to give me a week I did try to be honest in the fact that I wasn't too sure. But you will see why here in a minute, as to my confusion.

You were right in your thinking that you should be able to use a router. Where my confusion came in was with the non-routable IP addresses. I was told that it took a bridge to translate them. This is only partially true as the routers NAT (network address translation) will do this too.

I confess that even though I DO have experience with this stuff, I am still learning ( isn't that a never ending thing anyway?) so I went & ask a person that knows this stuff better than me - he got me all straightened out (I HOPE).

So, here is the meat of all this & the answer to your problem...

From your ISP hook in a main router
from the main router plug in LAN1 router & LAN2 router
Have the main router give LAN1 router & LAN2 router THE SAME IP SUBNET ADDRESSING (this is the key that got by me) (I.E. 10.0.0.X)
On LAN1 & LAN2 you can have the IP addresses you mentioned.

Please let me know how it goes...

Best wishes
Baby Tux

Nisseviking · Joined: Aug 04, 2004 Posts: 62

Baby_Tux
First I must say I'm impressed (and grateful too of course) for you efforts to solve my little "problem".
Regarding the configuration, I really don't have a separate "main router". I was planning to use the D-link for this. The configuration I had in mind looks like this:

************WAN side****|192.168.0.x
ISP---Modem----NAT Router1--|---PC1
**************D-Link*****|
************************|---PC2
************************|
************************| "WAN side"***|192.168.1.x
************************|--NAT Router2--|--PC3
*****************************Zyxel****|
*************************************|--PC4

The reason this doesn't work I guess, is probably that the Zyxel does not accept non-routable addresses on its WAN side .
Will try to connect them via a bridge to the Modem LAN port (there is only one)

Nisse

PS
Hope you understand my picture

Baby_Tux · Joined: Mar 06, 2007 Posts: 1242

IF, IF, IF you are going to buy anything, why not just get another router & hook it as I said? - If you already have the other stuff, I guess experimenting is OK.

I understand what you are doing as I (THINK) I have my LAN hooked like that. The only way I could get the "wired" & "wireless" to see one another was to set them to the same subnet addressing. BTW: if you use DHCP, be sure you only have ONE running. Another family member originally set up the wireless & turn on the DHCP in it and I didn't know it until later. It gave my lan fits until I saw this. - Funny it was intermittently giving me another IP address but only "once in a blue moon" , real fun to troubleshoot.

Other than that, I am hesitant to make any comments or advise you as I don't trust the info I'd give. - Until I figure out what is what, I'd rather not ill advise ANYONE. I don't like giving false info... Crying or Very sad