Is Microsoft's MSI installer inherently flawed?

tbernstein · Joined: May 16, 2003 Posts: 1668 Location: London

I've lost count of the times that an installation, uninstallation or update has failed over the years.
And, usually this is because the setup has failed to find an MSI file that simply isn't there for it to find. This is almost always a setup file from a previous installation, i.e. something that is being replaced or removed anyway. But the MSI won't proceed because it isn't there.
That's not too much of a bother if I'm just removing the thing, MS has a tool to get round that, but if I'm trying to install a new version and the setup fails because it can't find the old MSI that's just plain annoying.

This has been triggered because today I got fed up with Acrobat trying and failing to install some updates. So i decided to uninstall it. And then start from scratch.
But then the installer, as noted above, refused to play. Instead it gave me a message saying that it couldn't find the file c:\users\local\adobe\setup.msi (or something like that)

Well it can't find it because it isn't there.
So what am I supposed to do? If it isn't there, it isn't there and a message telling me it isn't there isn't helping at all.

But as noted above, this isn't just with the Adobe. It happens a lot.

goretsky · Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:05 am Post subject:

Hello,

I have never had this problem myself, but seen it happen on systems where "improvement" or "junk file clean-up" programs were run.

Regards,

Aryeh Goretsky

tbernstein · Joined: May 16, 2003 Posts: 1668 Location: London

My several experiences of this suggest that one cause can indeed be the clean up when the installation of a previous version placed important files long term files in a temp folder. And since Microsoft designated these folders as temp places for temporary files, it seems pretty reasonable to be qble to clean them out. That's what temporary means..
Another casue seems to be when the installer was on a network folder.
And sometimes there doesn't seem to be any reason at all

But that's not the real issue. The flaw is in the logic of the MSI installer. it's the "So what" factor.
Which is to say, I have a full install. I want that install to run.
The installer thinks that there should be a certain file on the system already, but can't find it. So what. If it can't find it then it isn't there. So move on. There's no point leaving messges to say that it isn't there and that you have to find it, when you can't find it and don't need it anyway, becasue you have a complete install running anyway.
All that said. I freely admit that I have no idea why the MSI would want to find that old file, if there are new ones to install. It certainly doesn't seem logical to me. Rolling Eyes

.
.

drwho07 · Joined: Nov 29, 2007 Posts: 2238 Location: Central FL, USA

One caveat............ The Windows Installer program can be shut off in
Services.msc .

If it is indeed shut off, NO .msi program will run.

Just a thought.

The Doctor Cool

tbernstein · Joined: May 16, 2003 Posts: 1668 Location: London

I happened to follow through on an installation from an MSI today.
And sure enough. Wthout allowing me to choose its behaviour the .msi installed itself in and then from the \windows\temp folder.
There are two issues here.
One is that the software installed from an .msi is not readily removable (even by an upgrade to itself) if the original installer is missing and
Two, the original installer places itself in a folder that is by definition temporary.
There is both a significant contradiction here and a significant waste of HDD space.
So I'm pretty much answering my own question. Embarassed

In my opinion the .msi idea is very flawed.

goretsky · Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:57 am Post subject:

Hello,

From what I recall, the Microsoft Software Installation service stores data about software installations in the %windir%\INSTALLER\ directory, and while an installation is underway uses a temporary directory named %homedrive%\CONFIG.MSI to hold store information about the installation currently being performed.

If, for some reason, the information stored in the %windir%\INSTALLER\ directory is missing or corrupt, the service prompts for the location of the original MSI and looks at the information in it to determine if there are any additional steps needed to complete the uninstallation of a program.

The %homedrive%\CONFIG.MSI directory should only be present when an installation is running or pending some operation (i.e., perhaps a reboot is required to finish installing a program).

I would be hesitant to remove either directory on a computer I was operating. If I did need to for some reason, though, I would rename or move the directory to another location. That way, if I needed it later I could restore it.

Regards,

Aryeh Goretsky

tbernstein · Joined: May 16, 2003 Posts: 1668 Location: London

Interesting.
I've never had my grubby paws on that folder.
And none of the MSI problems I've met over the years, on my machine or others, have wanted to find that folder.
There's something about this software that isn't good.

blaklite · Joined: Feb 18, 2010 Posts: 1

A bit late (2006 I think this thread was started!) but your logic still holds. I still am getting the same errors.

I would be interested to ear from anyone who knows a little more of the workings of msi/installers etc and as to any way to make sure that .msi files are kept in places that will not be changed (i suppose that is what C:\Config.msi and such are for?)

Frinstance I have recently un-installed VS2008 (again!) and wanted to remove Document Explorer 2008, but I am being informed tat the .msi is in its own directory in the temp folder, and also that is the only folder I can find any mention of in connection with that install. 9/10 times this would not be a problem, I would just re-install the program, and repeat the un-install, however I cant find a stand alone installer for document explorer (installed as part of VS) so it seems I will have to re-install that, and then probably have the same problem again.

Or be fored to use one of the many "un-install" (I generally use Revo) apps, that usually casue this sort of problem to start with by deleteing too many files when cleaning up.

hrumph

system001 · Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:24 am Post subject:

the flaws with .msi are the fact is when ms developed then the idea was to replace .exe files. msi files were to monitor themselves during an install and create a log that would be called up when you used the programs uninstaller, so the uninstaller would do a clean uninstall leaving no trace of the programs install anywhere. i have yet to see ms get it right. i am not that surprised for with the exception 7 if it can be gotten wrong typically ms will get it wrong.running windows since win 95 the impression is that ms gets something so far then gets lazy.

tbernstein · Joined: May 16, 2003 Posts: 1668 Location: London

Since I first posted this I now know that one reason for problems is that some .msi installers often store their data in the temp folder, rather ignoring the fact that that folder is meant to be "temp". The clue is in the name. But ,despite inventing it Microsoft don't seem to have cottoned onto its purpose.

drwho07 · Joined: Nov 29, 2007 Posts: 2238 Location: Central FL, USA

And,,,,, most HD cleanup programs will automatically delete all temp folders.
That includes MS's own utility "Disk Cleanup".

Suppose the right hand just doesn't know what the left hand is doing?

Kind'a sounds like it!

Cool