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bern
Joined: Mar 12, 2007
Posts: 887
Location: ann arbor
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 Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:41 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| Sgt Schultz wrote: |
| Not directing this at you Xavierx, but your point reminds me how many times I've seen some Republicans yell "Ted Kennedy" & "Chappaquiddick" at the drop of a hat in the same vein; focusing on the past. |
But in Kennedy's case somebody died. That makes it a whole lot worse. And there was considerable comment at the time that he had to have gotten "special" dispensation from somebody to avoid jail time for what was clearly at least negligent homicide.
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mommabear
Joined: Feb 20, 2003
Posts: 6185
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:00 am Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| Sgt Schultz wrote: |
| xavierx wrote: |
| Mommabear, feel free to attack McCain all you want. I post news from the present. When you quit focusing on the past, bring up 30 year old dirt as excuses for your party, then come back and talk. After all, that's exactly what you demand of Republican supporters. |
Not directing this at you Xavierx, but your point reminds me how many times I've seen some Republicans yell "Ted Kennedy" & "Chappaquiddick" at the drop of a hat in the same vein; focusing on the past. |
And let's not forget, "But Clinton lied!" 
Really though, all I wanted to point out is that while the media is reporting on Edwards and now extrapolating it into somehow hurting Obama too, with few exceptions, no one is wondering out loud why McCain's past affair(s) should be just as relevant too.
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xavierx
Joined: Nov 06, 2004
Posts: 3871
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:10 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| Quote: |
| Really though, all I wanted to point out is that while the media is reporting on Edwards and now extrapolating it into somehow hurting Obama too, with few exceptions, no one is wondering out loud why McCain's past affair(s) should be just as relevant too. |
Again, McCain's affair 30 years ago isn't news. Edward's is. And why could it hurt Obama? Because Obama was considering him for VP or AG. Should it hurt Obama? No, it's not really relevant to Obama, and I don't expect him to know that Edwards was lying all this time. Edwards fooled almost everybody.
| Quote: |
| And let's not forget, "But Clinton lied!" Wink |
Again, show me where I used all those excuses, or apologize. |
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xavierx
Joined: Nov 06, 2004
Posts: 3871
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:14 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| Sgt Schultz wrote: |
| xavierx wrote: |
| Mommabear, feel free to attack McCain all you want. I post news from the present. When you quit focusing on the past, bring up 30 year old dirt as excuses for your party, then come back and talk. After all, that's exactly what you demand of Republican supporters. |
Not directing this at you Xavierx, but your point reminds me how many times I've seen some Republicans yell "Ted Kennedy" & "Chappaquiddick" at the drop of a hat in the same vein; focusing on the past. |
Yes, this was Mommabear's line, too. However, she went the step further and said that I did that. Me, personally. I've asked repeatedly for evidence, but got none. Now you appear to be doing much the same, and no, the "Not directing this at you" part doesn't make it any less personal, especially given that this has been what this thread was about - me being accused of using "XXX did it, too" as my "battle cry". |
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Sgt Schultz
Joined: Dec 07, 2002
Posts: 6829
Location: St. Louis area
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:52 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| xavierx wrote: |
| Yes, this was Mommabear's line, too. However, she went the step further and said that I did that. Me, personally. I've asked repeatedly for evidence, but got none. Now you appear to be doing much the same, and no, the "Not directing this at you" part doesn't make it any less personal, especially given that this has been what this thread was about - me being accused of using "XXX did it, too" as my "battle cry". |
I've been hearing this repeatedly on the other forum that I visit i.e. what happened in the past is the past yet the same people bring up Kennedy at the drop of a hat. I was not saying that about you. That was not my intention and as I said it was not directed at you personally. |
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mommabear
Joined: Feb 20, 2003
Posts: 6185
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:56 am Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| Quote: |
| Again, McCain's affair 30 years ago isn't news. Edward's is. And why could it hurt Obama? Because Obama was considering him for VP or AG. Should it hurt Obama? No, it's not really relevant to Obama, and I don't expect him to know that Edwards was lying all this time. Edwards fooled almost everybody. |
But that's part of the point I'm trying to make. It isn't news and it should be. I've been at another forum and another participant had never heard of McCain's affairs and the story behind his divorce.
There are people who will hold Obama's association with Edwards against him, unfair as that is to some of us. If his reputation and character is going to suffer some consequences for that, then McCain's past should, at the least, be put out there to be discussed and considered when judging his reputation and character. |
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ejward
Joined: Jan 06, 2003
Posts: 6521
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:24 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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I haven't poseted here in a while but I saw this topic and it bothers me too.
How is having an affair even any of our businness? To me, it's a personal matter between the parties involved. I don't care that Clinton had an affair. I don't care that Edwards or McCain had one. Unless a bill comes across their desk making an affair a crime, I don't see how it could possibly influence their ability to be President. Am i wrong here?
Why was John Kerry's protesting of the war relevent 30 years later? Some argued that in those 30 years, he changed. Those on the right were not buying it. Saying that it was a question of his character. Ok, so wouldn't an affair be a question of character too? Even 30 years later? |
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xavierx
Joined: Nov 06, 2004
Posts: 3871
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:38 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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This is going no where. All I can say is if anyone here is looking for a reason to hate McCain, here it is. If 30 year old "news" is what makes you happy, have at it. Just look as closely at your own house.
And Mommabear, I assume your lack of response is admission that you wrongly accused me> Apology accepted. |
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mommabear
Joined: Feb 20, 2003
Posts: 6185
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:22 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| ejward wrote: |
I haven't poseted here in a while but I saw this topic and it bothers me too.
How is having an affair even any of our businness? To me, it's a personal matter between the parties involved. I don't care that Clinton had an affair. I don't care that Edwards or McCain had one. Unless a bill comes across their desk making an affair a crime, I don't see how it could possibly influence their ability to be President. Am i wrong here?
Why was John Kerry's protesting of the war relevent 30 years later? Some argued that in those 30 years, he changed. Those on the right were not buying it. Saying that it was a question of his character. Ok, so wouldn't an affair be a question of character too? Even 30 years later? |
Hey, ej! Long time, no see.
What you said gets to the point of the original article I posted. The affairs shouldn't matter. But if one side insists on making something like that a character issue affecting another's leadership ability, then that side should be held to the same standard too. |
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mommabear
Joined: Feb 20, 2003
Posts: 6185
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:26 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| I think you must be hallucinating. |
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ejward
Joined: Jan 06, 2003
Posts: 6521
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:53 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| xavierx wrote: |
This is going no where. All I can say is if anyone here is looking for a reason to hate McCain, here it is. If 30 year old "news" is what makes you happy, have at it. Just look as closely at your own house.
And Mommabear, I assume your lack of response is admission that you wrongly accused me> Apology accepted. |
Why post in a thread that asks a question if you're not going to answer the question? you can say it's going nowhere but, your very first post took it there. You attacked the poster rather than simply answering the question. |
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ejward
Joined: Jan 06, 2003
Posts: 6521
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:06 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| The only thing I can really say is that Edwards should have at least leveled with his supporters. It's sad to say but, he knew that if it got out, he'd pretty much be unelectable. But, he still went ahead. It would be like if he wasn't born in this country. We'd all donate money and support his run even though he couldn't become President. |
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xavierx
Joined: Nov 06, 2004
Posts: 3871
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:34 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| ejward wrote: |
| xavierx wrote: |
This is going no where. All I can say is if anyone here is looking for a reason to hate McCain, here it is. If 30 year old "news" is what makes you happy, have at it. Just look as closely at your own house.
And Mommabear, I assume your lack of response is admission that you wrongly accused me> Apology accepted. |
Why post in a thread that asks a question if you're not going to answer the question? you can say it's going nowhere but, your very first post took it there. You attacked the poster rather than simply answering the question. |
How about before you post in a thread to attack me, you read the rest of my posts? I answered Mommabear's question, and then she attacked me. I then asked for her to prove her attack. It's now been 8 days, and I've seen no proof, only more repetition of the same false attack. |
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ejward
Joined: Jan 06, 2003
Posts: 6521
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:15 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| Just pointing out that your first post pretty much doomed any chance of you getting anything useful out of this thread in my opinion. |
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xavierx
Joined: Nov 06, 2004
Posts: 3871
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:42 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| ejward wrote: |
| Just pointing out that your first post pretty much doomed any chance of you getting anything useful out of this thread in my opinion. |
I would argue that the opening post did that. What's the point in discussing a 30 year old story? The Edwards story was news, that's why it was in the news. And after a couple days, it wasn't news anymore, and guess what - I only hear about it here.
I do find the results here quite humorous, though. The people who very consistently criticized anyone who brought up the past when defending a Republican is now consistently bringing up the past. And the same for those who criticized the 30 year old Kerry story, who are now trying to swift-boat McCain. Quite illuminating. |
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mommabear
Joined: Feb 20, 2003
Posts: 6185
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:47 am Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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I agree. It boggles the mind that he thought he could get away with it. If he'd been honest, I'm sure it still would have killed his political chances this time around, and maybe the next time too. But I think he could have come back eventually, in some capacity. Maybe not as President, but in a Cabinet position in a future administration.
The saddest thing of all though, as the article points out, is that his personal failure has now put a cloud over the good works he has done, and could have done, against poverty. I'm sure he (and Elizabeth) still care deeply about those issues. But anything they try to do now will just be met with cynicism.
Edit: small edit for grammar error. ooops.
Last edited by mommabear on Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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bern
Joined: Mar 12, 2007
Posts: 887
Location: ann arbor
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:13 am Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| mommabear wrote: |
| The saddest thing of all though, as the article points out, is that his personal failure has now put a cloud over the good works he done, and could have done, against poverty. |
Maybe Edwards would have been successful in his plans for no poverty 30 years from now. But those politicians for whom poverty issues are like money in the bank (pardon the metaphor) would simply redefine poverty so they would still have a target group. The definition is, after all, purely arbitrary. |
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