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oldwolves
Joined: Sep 03, 2004
Posts: 1360
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 Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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Looks like they are gonna make it after all. The terrorist have made a mistake and found themselves wanting.
http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/28541.htm
September 26, 2005 -- THE next vote in Iraq is the Oct. 15 referendum on the nation's constitution, but the political elite is already turning its attention to the general elections scheduled for December.
Most Iraqi politicians now expect the constitution to be approved; fears have faded that Sunni Arabs might manage to vote it down. The optimism rises from several developments.
First, as more and more Sunni Arabs read the proposed text, now widely distributed, they realize it is not as bad as some of their self-styled leaders claimed. The latest suicide-killer attacks have also come as a wake-up call to Sunnis not to let terrorists provoke a sectarian war.
This is what I mean by...........
Freedom
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clhenry
Joined: Feb 13, 2003
Posts: 9051
Location: West by god Virginia
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Looks to be another step in the right direction. B)
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tony7914
Joined: Dec 24, 2004
Posts: 4965
Location: Peru Indiana
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| What happened to the "Gloom and Doom"? :blink: |
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patio
Joined: Feb 03, 2004
Posts: 5598
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:53 am Post subject: |
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What happened to the "Gloom and Doom"? :blink:
[right][snapback]294638[/snapback][/right]
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ABC
NBC
CBS
PMSNBC...
I'm sure i can come up with more... 
patio. B) |
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mommabear
Joined: Feb 20, 2003
Posts: 6319
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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Looks like they are gonna make it after all. The terrorist have made a mistake and found themselves wanting.
http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/28541.htm
September 26, 2005 -- THE next vote in Iraq is the Oct. 15 referendum on the nation's constitution, but the political elite is already turning its attention to the general elections scheduled for December.
Most Iraqi politicians now expect the constitution to be approved; fears have faded that Sunni Arabs might manage to vote it down. The optimism rises from several developments.
First, as more and more Sunni Arabs read the proposed text, now widely distributed, they realize it is not as bad as some of their self-styled leaders claimed. The latest suicide-killer attacks have also come as a wake-up call to Sunnis not to let terrorists provoke a sectarian war.
This is what I mean by...........
Freedom
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Responding to the bolded part above:
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Sunni anger at Iraq vote change
Sunni Arabs have reacted angrily to a decision by Iraq's Shia-dominated parliament making it harder to reject the new constitution in 12 days' time.
The two-thirds majority needed in three provinces to defeat the constitution will now be counted from all registered - as opposed to actual - voters. ...
.... 'Implausible' change
The interim constitution drawn up under US administrator Paul Bremer in 2003 says the following about the issue:
"The general referendum will be successful and the draft constitution ratified if a majority of the voters in Iraq approve and if two-thirds of the voters in three or more governorates do not reject it."
But on Sunday, MPs said a No vote from two-thirds of "registered" voters was needed for a veto.
The new interpretation keeps the clause stipulating that only half of actual voters are needed for the text to be adopted. ...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4306094.stm |
Less than two weeks out from the vote and they change the rules. :thumbdown: |
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clhenry
Joined: Feb 13, 2003
Posts: 9051
Location: West by god Virginia
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Less than two weeks out from the vote and they change the rules. |
It's there country. and they can set it up anyway they they want. Thats called freedom.
Show me another country thats free that doesn't change the way things work. |
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mommabear
Joined: Feb 20, 2003
Posts: 6319
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Less than two weeks out from the vote and they change the rules. |
It's there country. and they can set it up anyway they they want. Thats called freedom.
Show me another country thats free that doesn't change the way things work.
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Did they not reach out to the Sunnis who had boycotted the first vote because they wanted free elections and "democracy"? Now they are shutting the door in their faces.
This is an interim government, not the permanent government. It is not freedom, nor is it a democracy, until everyone has had the opportunity to vote on their constitution.
Then isn't it in December that they have the vote for their permanent government? (Providing the constitution is approved.)
Isn't that what our guys are fighting and dying for?
Your article said, "First, as more and more Sunni Arabs read the proposed text, now widely distributed, they realize it is not as bad as some of their self-styled leaders claimed."
What changed that prompted the Shia's to change the rules? |
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Outshined
Joined: Dec 09, 2002
Posts: 4409
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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It's there country. and they can set it up anyway they they want. Thats called freedom.
Show me another country thats free that doesn't change the way things work.
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Exactly. They get to run it the way they want to. That's freedom. |
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mommabear
Joined: Feb 20, 2003
Posts: 6319
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:44 am Post subject: |
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The New York Times
October 4, 2005
Election Move Seems to Ensure Iraqis' Charter
By ROBERT F. WORTH
BAGHDAD, Iraq, Oct. 3 - Iraq's Shiite and Kurdish leaders quietly adopted new rules over the weekend that will make it virtually impossible for the constitution to fail in the coming national referendum.
The move prompted Sunni Arabs and a range of independent political figures to complain that the vote was being fixed.
Some Sunni leaders who have been organizing a campaign to vote down the proposed constitution said they might now boycott the referendum on Oct. 15. Other political leaders also reacted angrily, saying the change would seriously damage the vote's credibility....
"This is a mockery of democracy, a mockery of law," said Adnan al-Janabi, a secular Sunni representative and a member of former Prime Minister Ayad Allawi's party. "Many Sunnis have been telling me they didn't believe in this democratic process, and now I believe they are vindicated."
The rule change could prove a serious embarrassment to American officials in Iraq, who have spent recent weeks struggling to persuade Sunni Arabs to vote for the constitution and even trying to broker last-minute changes that would make it more palatable to them. ...
[HOW THEY DID IT]
In their vote on Sunday, the Shiite and Kurdish members interpreted the law as follows: the constitution will pass if a majority of ballots are cast for it; it will fail if two-thirds of registered voters in three or more provinces vote against it. In other words, the lawmakers designated two different meanings for the word "voters" in one passage. "I think it's a double standard, and it's unfair," said Mahmoud Othman, a Kurdish assembly member who, like many other lawmakers, said he had not been present during the vote and only learned of it afterward. "When it's in your favor, you say 'voters.' When it's not in your favor you say 'eligible voters.' "
In effect, the new interpretation makes not voting a show of support for the constitution and runs against the apparent intent of the law. The National Assembly is empowered to change the transitional law - which was written under the American occupation in 2003 - but only with the approval of two-thirds of its members and of the Presidency Council. Because they regard their action as a mere clarification, the lawmakers did not seek that kind of approval....
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/04/internat....html?th&emc=th
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osprey
Joined: Sep 04, 2003
Posts: 1390
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Maybe they will take a page from the Gore book, and just keep counting, until it turns out the way they want it too. |
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clhenry
Joined: Feb 13, 2003
Posts: 9051
Location: West by god Virginia
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGB70P7QEEE.html
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U.S., U.N. Urge Iraq's Government to Reverse Changes to Voting Rules and Avert Sunni Boycott
By Qassim Abdul-Zahra Associated Press Writer
Published: Oct 4, 2005
BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - U.S. and U.N. officials urged the Shiite-led government Tuesday to reverse last-minute changes to voting rules for a referendum on Iraq's new constitution and head off a threatened Sunni boycott.
The crisis emerged less than two weeks before the Oct. 15 vote and just a day after the U.N. began distributing 5 million copies of the constitution to voters. |
Imagine that...MB and Bush agree on something.  |
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tony7914
Joined: Dec 24, 2004
Posts: 4965
Location: Peru Indiana
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGB70P7QEEE.html
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U.S., U.N. Urge Iraq's Government to Reverse Changes to Voting Rules and Avert Sunni Boycott
By Qassim Abdul-Zahra Associated Press Writer
Published: Oct 4, 2005
BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - U.S. and U.N. officials urged the Shiite-led government Tuesday to reverse last-minute changes to voting rules for a referendum on Iraq's new constitution and head off a threatened Sunni boycott.
The crisis emerged less than two weeks before the Oct. 15 vote and just a day after the U.N. began distributing 5 million copies of the constitution to voters. |
Imagine that...MB and Bush agree on something.
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mommabear
Joined: Feb 20, 2003
Posts: 6319
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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Heard on the news tonight that the Bush Administration and the UN have approached the Iraqi leaders about this. They said they would look into it and see if they couldn't find some kind of "compromise" that the Sunnis could accept. Paraphrasing, but that's what it boils down to.
The original article isn't available in total now, but it was also mentioned that after all the freedom and democracy bally-hoo from the US, it would be an embarrassment if the voting was tainted. Again, paraphrasing, but that's what it boils down to.
It would be an embarrassment if the vote had to be rigged because they fear that the U.S puppet government in Iraq couldn't get elected otherwise. |
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Outshined
Joined: Dec 09, 2002
Posts: 4409
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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You know what they say about opinions... :rolleyes:
Some look for the good, while others just prefer to look for dirt. |
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mommabear
Joined: Feb 20, 2003
Posts: 6319
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:46 am Post subject: |
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You know what they say about opinions... :rolleyes:
Some look for the good, while others just prefer to look for dirt.
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Actually, I do want the elections to succeed. I want to see if a real democracy can come out of all of this. By that I mean that the Iraqi people get their country back. I'm not optimistic because most of the big players have been hand-picked by us and the odds are in their favor. But what if the "other" side does pull it off and then they want the foreigners out of their country? We say we will respect that, but I wonder.
Update:
Iraq's parliament has reversed its decision to change the rules governing a referendum next week on the country's new constitution.
The altered rules would have made it much harder for Sunni opponents of the draft constitution to reject it.
Parliament has now decided to revert to the original rules - as both the United Nations and Washington said it should.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4311690.stm |
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User: inactive
Posts:
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 9:02 am Post subject: |
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Looks like they are gonna make it after all. The terrorist have made a mistake and found themselves wanting.
http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/28541.htm
September 26, 2005 -- THE next vote in Iraq is the Oct. 15 referendum on the nation's constitution, but the political elite is already turning its attention to the general elections scheduled for December.
Most Iraqi politicians now expect the constitution to be approved; fears have faded that Sunni Arabs might manage to vote it down. The optimism rises from several developments.
First, as more and more Sunni Arabs read the proposed text, now widely distributed, they realize it is not as bad as some of their self-styled leaders claimed. The latest suicide-killer attacks have also come as a wake-up call to Sunnis not to let terrorists provoke a sectarian war.
This is what I mean by...........
Freedom
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Responding to the bolded part above:
| Quote: |
Sunni anger at Iraq vote change
Sunni Arabs have reacted angrily to a decision by Iraq's Shia-dominated parliament making it harder to reject the new constitution in 12 days' time.
The two-thirds majority needed in three provinces to defeat the constitution will now be counted from all registered - as opposed to actual - voters. ...
.... 'Implausible' change
The interim constitution drawn up under US administrator Paul Bremer in 2003 says the following about the issue:
"The general referendum will be successful and the draft constitution ratified if a majority of the voters in Iraq approve and if two-thirds of the voters in three or more governorates do not reject it."
But on Sunday, MPs said a No vote from two-thirds of "registered" voters was needed for a veto.
The new interpretation keeps the clause stipulating that only half of actual voters are needed for the text to be adopted. ...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4306094.stm |
Less than two weeks out from the vote and they change the rules. :thumbdown:
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looks like democracy is at work
http://tinyurl.com/czu99
we have to give them a chance they are very new/young to this ... |
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mommabear
Joined: Feb 20, 2003
Posts: 6319
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 9:10 am Post subject: |
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ooks like democracy is at work
http://tinyurl.com/czu99
we have to give them a chance they are very new/young to this ... |
Thanks. I posted that too in my previous entry (#15), but I had to label it as an update because I'm still having problems with posts I make going in as an edit to my last post...unless somebody else comes in to make a separation.  |
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tony7914
Joined: Dec 24, 2004
Posts: 4965
Location: Peru Indiana
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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ooks like democracy is at work
http://tinyurl.com/czu99
we have to give them a chance they are very new/young to this ... |
Thanks. I posted that too in my previous entry (#15), but I had to label it as an update because I'm still having problems with posts I make going in as an edit to my last post...unless somebody else comes in to make a separation.
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I get the same problem when I try to post 2 seperate posts back to back, I'm not sure if it's intended or not. |
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mommabear
Joined: Feb 20, 2003
Posts: 6319
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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ooks like democracy is at work
http://tinyurl.com/czu99
we have to give them a chance they are very new/young to this ... |
Thanks. I posted that too in my previous entry (#15), but I had to label it as an update because I'm still having problems with posts I make going in as an edit to my last post...unless somebody else comes in to make a separation.
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I get the same problem when I try to post 2 seperate posts back to back, I'm not sure if it's intended or not.
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Well, I just managed to post back to back in another thread, so maybe it's fixed. |
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oldwolves
Joined: Sep 03, 2004
Posts: 1360
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:51 am Post subject: |
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Another step closer.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20051012/D8D6AKPO0.html
"BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - Iraqi negotiators reached a breakthrough deal on the constitution Tuesday, and at least one Sunni Arab party said it would now urge its followers to approve the charter in this weekend's referendum. Suicide bombings and other attacks killed more than 50 people in the insurgent campaign aimed at intimidating voters.
Under the deal, the two sides agreed on a mechanism to consider amending the constitution after it is approved in Saturday's referendum. The next parliament, to be formed in December, will set up a commission to consider amendments, which would later have to be approved by parliament and submitted to another referendum.
The agreement boosts the chances that the draft constitution will be passed Saturday. Shiite and Kurdish leaders support the draft and the United States has been eager to see it approved to avert months more of political turmoil, delaying plans to start a withdrawal of U.S. forces."
Not any mention of this in the MSM(main Stream Media).Why?
Because it offers hope?
Freedom
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