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drwho07
Joined: Nov 29, 2007
Posts: 1134
Location: Central FL, USA
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 Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:28 pm Post subject: Danger Will Robinson! |
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Danger!
I wish someone had told me that, before I tried the "Defraggler" on my main HD.
It's a defragmenter that I found advertised on "File Hippo's" newsletter last week.
It installed and ran easily, with a great GUI and display.
But when I tried to analyze my HD with Windows Defrag..(after I ran the Defraggler) ..I got no readout on the HD at all.
Then when I tried to reboot the system, Windows went as far as the Splash Screen, then a black screen with the HD light on solid. It would not finish booting.
I tried restoring a Ghost Partition Image, but that too failed to get the system booting. I wound up Restoring my latest Ghost Image to a new HD and kept the old one for file salvage.
I've now vowed to make a complete new Ghost Image for my C: drive before trying out any more software that might corrupt the drive.
And, a word of warning to anyone else who might want to try the "Defraggler", defragmenting program...... .DON'T!
It's written by the same group that put out the CCleaner..... another program that I found seriously lacking.
A word to the wise, should be sufficient!
The Doctor 
Last edited by drwho07 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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zlim
Joined: Mar 11, 2005
Posts: 2422
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| You might want to post a warning at the Defraggler forum
http://forum.piriform.com/index.php?showforum=19
Usually be for I try something, I google to get of feel for all the good and bad things that can happen. If someone checks the forum, they might see that it doesn't work properly for everyone. |
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kenmabmcc
Joined: Nov 20, 2003
Posts: 7258
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:50 pm Post subject: Re: Danger Will Robinson! [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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Warning noted.
I have been using Defraggler for a while with no problems.
As my hard drive is in NTFS and yours is in FAT32,
that may be the difference...perhaps ? |
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drwho07
Joined: Nov 29, 2007
Posts: 1134
Location: Central FL, USA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:22 am Post subject: Re: Danger Will Robinson! [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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Unless the program came with an OBVIOUS disclaimer about not using it on a FAT-32 drive, I would expect it to work equally well, no matter what the format.
Windows own Defrag works great on my FAT-32 drives. 
Once I've got everything off of that damaged drive, that I need, I'll be using FDISK to repartition it and then run "Spinrite6" on it to make sure it's not damaged. Then I'll clone my current C:/ D: drive to the old one, giving me a full backup in case of another disaster.
I'll definitely NOT be using any more Brand-X defrag programs on my PC.
The very best defrag I've ever used, is a Ghost restore.
It completely re-writes the drive leaving NO spaces and NO fragmentation.
This little SNAFU has caused me to take a harder look at my backup and recovery schemes. I'll be doing a lot more Ghost backups to DVD's, that's for sure!
At least, one per week.
I can still get a complete backup of C: on a single DVD, using Ghost 2003 with HIGH compression.
Anything backed up ON your PC is subject to damage or erasures, should something go wrong.
Recovery can be a real Bxxxh!!!
The only sure-fire backup is the one NOT anywhere on your PC.
As I'm trying to teach, I'm also learning.  
Cheers Mates!
The Doctor |
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BudDurland
Joined: Dec 05, 2002
Posts: 426
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| Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:45 pm Post subject: Re: Danger Will Robinson! [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| drwho07 wrote: |
| Unless the program came with an OBVIOUS disclaimer about not using it on a FAT-32 drive, I would expect it to work equally well, no matter what the format. |
I whole-heartedly agree, Doc. OTOH, you're one of what -- 10 people on the planet still using FAT32 on a Windows boot partition? Young hot-shot programmers sometimes forget what us old-timers might do.
| drwho07 wrote: |
The very best defrag I've ever used, is a Ghost restore.
It completely re-writes the drive leaving NO spaces and NO fragmentation. |
Way back when, I had a DOS defrag program (maybe from Gibson) that moved all the static (executables) to one end of the disk, and the rest to the other end. I thought the concept was cool.
| drwho07 wrote: |
| I can still get a complete backup of C: on a single DVD, using Ghost 2003 with HIGH compression. |
Even with phenomenal compression, that's what - 25GB? I can't remember the last time all my documents, pictures, music, source code, etc was only 25 GB. I do my backups to a second hard drive in the system |
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drwho07
Joined: Nov 29, 2007
Posts: 1134
Location: Central FL, USA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:32 am Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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No intent to "argue" here, but lets discuss this a bit further. OK?
There are people all over the world, just like me, that want total control over every bit of information on their HD, that still use FAT-32 exclusively.
By the way, contrary to the naysayers, XP runs like a scalded dog on a FAT-32 partition.
25 gigs on C: ? Not in my world!!!
My total file load on C: is less than 9 gigs, including all the restore points, garbage files and the Pagefile.
I delete all the things I've mentioned here before doing a ghost backup, so I save a ton of space in my Backup Image Files.
Right now, Ghost is creating three .GHO files for every backup and they total just a hair over 5 gigs.
They fit nicely on my six gig Flash Drive. 
| Quote: |
| I do my backups to a second hard drive in the system |
I applaud you, that you even do backups, but, most folks DON'T, witness the large number of people that come on this and other forums wanting to know how to recover files from a crashed HD.
I don't like to, but I'm going to repeat myself.....
"The only good backup is the one NOT anywhere on your computer".
There are many things that can happen to a computer to wipe out every bit of information on it.
Lightning is possibly the worse. Next, there is a little known "PSU" failure mode that can put high voltage on the mobo and drives.
And what about fire, theft, flood and tornadoes?
I can't help but wonder, how many computers were wiped out by the 2' of rain that caused extensive flooding in thousands of homes here in FL as Tropical Storm FAY lashed this area.
I can only imagine that most of those PC's that were sitting on the floors of those homes are now, 'History'.
I had this PSU Failure happen several times, once to me and several times to my customers, where the tops were blown off of chips on both the motherboard and the hard drive controller printed circuit board (on the HD). Every time, it was a failure of the "Codegen 300w" supply.
Recovering any data from a drive that has "Smoked", can, at best, be very expensive.
However, if you just do your backup (of C: drive) to a DVD, instead of a HD, and then you put that DVD is a SAFE place, full recovery is assured.
Keep all the BS off of your C: drive and you'll find that backups go a lot quicker.
If you have valuable, pictures, documents, etc., keep them backed up to DVD's for safe keeping.
Just last night, I had a problem with a very important data file.
I could not fix it, but, I went back into a Ghost Image File on a DVD, that was several months old and did a full recovery.
God, I do love the "Ghost Explorer" program. It's saved my bacon on many occasions, by being able to Extract a file from an old Ghost Backup.
Now I've forgotten......."What was the topic?"
Doc |
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BudDurland
Joined: Dec 05, 2002
Posts: 426
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| Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:57 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| drwho07 wrote: |
No intent to "argue" here, but lets discuss this a bit further. OK?
There are people all over the world, just like me, that want total control over every bit of information on their HD, that still use FAT-32 exclusively.
By the way, contrary to the naysayers, XP runs like a scalded dog on a FAT-32 partition
25 gigs on C: ? Not in my world!!! |
I'd never deny that there are lots of people still using FAT32, or say that it's a bad idea on a single-user system. However, as a percentage of all the Win2K/Xp/Vista installations in the world, I suspect the ratio for this configuration is small. If someone ids looking to appeal to the largest market share...
<yet another repeat of Doc's general backup methodology snipped>
| drwho07 wrote: |
| If you have valuable, pictures, documents, etc., keep them backed up to DVD's for safe keeping. |
We're in agreement that backups are good. But again, the overwhelming majority of PC users have a monolithic partition scheme -- everything on C:. So, let's stipulate that backing up the system is the highest priority task, even if it's not done in the most efficient or "geeky" way. To that end, I generally recommend that folks buy an external hard drive, and some backup software, such as Ghost or Acronis. Total investment, about $130.
Yes Doc, I know you hate the thought of actually installing the software to the hard disk. But, with 250GB hard drives as the "standard" nowadays, the amount of space used by the backup program is minuscule. By backing up to an external device, they have something they can power off & disconnect when not is use (prevents electrical damage), or lock up in a safe place. Or, if them have two computers, the same device can be used to store backups for both.
I supposed we've hijacked this thread enough, eh?  |
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drwho07
Joined: Nov 29, 2007
Posts: 1134
Location: Central FL, USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:54 am Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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Hey Dude....this is MY thread.....HiJack away! You have my permission.
I'm enjoying the chat!
People will read this stuff long after I'm wormfood and maybe get some little tidbit that will help them, from all this dialog.
So lets keep talking! OK?
FAT-32 works great for XP (all versions).
Many users have tried it after hearing me talking so much about it....and they've grown to love it as much as I do.
And, it's the default format for all previous versions of Windows.
Win 2k? Don't know. I've never used it, nor will I.
Vista? Absolutely NOT. It won't even load on anything but an NTFS partition.
With a little known program called "NTFS4DOS" which can be run from a DOS boot disk, you can access all the files on an NTFS hard drive from a DOS prompt, to get rid of Virus, Trojan and Spyware files that defy removal from withing windows.
That DOS boot disk can be a CD or flash drive too.
Yes, I'm so "Old School" that it almost hurts sometimes.
But to quote a phrase from a "Dirty Harry" movie....."Works for me!"
I hope there's NO argument here. But this is a very important dialog, about different concepts in doing Backups on your computer.
One size does NOT fit all.
My own idea of keeping C: as small as possible works well for me, because I do many scans and yes, even, a Defrag every week.
All those operations take like F-O-R-E-V-E-R on a C: drive that has over 10 gigs of files on it.
Now, I'm not talking about the physical size of the C: partition, I'm talking about the amount of data files on that drive. That's all you really have to scan (repeatedly) or back up.
I'm now using Ghost 11.5, which will also back up or Image a Vista HD.
Ghost32.exe even runs from an Icon on my Vista Desktop.
I do the very best HD cleanup that I can before running it though, to keep my Image file size as small as possible.
Nigel Bree, one of the original Ghost programmers and still an employee of Symantec, assures me that Ghost will NOT back up the Pagefile or any of the dump files.
Anyone wanting the last word on "Ghost" should attend the Radified Forum.
Ghost, in one version or another, is the main topic of discussion there.
http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl
I've learned a lot from Nigel and the other Ghost experts there.
Since I've used Ghost from its original release in 1997, I've picked up a few tips myself, and share them freely.
Doc |
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