Compact flash problem

bern · Joined: Mar 12, 2007 Posts: 1487 Location: ann arbor

For years I have been telling people to always format their memory cards in the camera, as cards formatted in a computer may render it unusable by the camera.

Well, through extreme stupidity, I removed the card from the camera while it was still being written. Result: card not recognized by camera. Camera won't format the card either. (other cards work fine in camera.) (Lost pictures are not an issue here)

What to do to resurrect card? Computer won't recognize card either, but will format card. After formatting, card works perfectly in computer card reader for reading or writing. So card is mechanically OK. Card formatted in XP computer as FAT.

Tried in camera. Not recognized, not formattable in camera.

Suggestions please on how I might get this card to work again in camera. Backup plan is buy another card, but that is not challenging... Smile

Baby_Tux · Joined: Mar 06, 2007 Posts: 1242

You may just have to go with your back up plan. But there ARE programs out on the internet that are SUPPOSED to fix this. WHICH ONES? to numerous to recall but a google should get you something. I found one for a flash drive. Haven't tried it as I don't have any to repair & was afraid to try it on a working on.

drwho07 · Joined: Nov 29, 2007 Posts: 2238 Location: Central FL, USA

I just checked several SD Flash Cards that I have here and they are all shown to be "FAT" formatted, when I look at their properties in Windows Explorer.

But, what I can't tell is, whether they are in FAT16 or FAT32 format.

How can I tell?
I feel sure that one is correct for the camera and the other one is NOT.
But which is which?

Doc Cool

drwho07 · Joined: Nov 29, 2007 Posts: 2238 Location: Central FL, USA

Ok, I've now got some new insight into this subject.

I looked at all these camera cards, I've got here, with Windows Explorer and it says they are all in FAT format.

Right click on the card and click Format and it will give you the option of formatting as FAT or FAT32.
I risked destroying one card by formatting it several times in both modes.
It's a SANDisk SD Flash Card and the write-protect tab kept moving on me, so I had to tape it, to keep it in place. I hate it when that happens! Laughing

I suspect that you may have formatted it as FAT-32, on the PC, and the camera is looking for FAT (16).

So, just for this exercise, format it again and make sure you select FAT and NOT FAT-32. Then see if the camera will accept it. I suspect it will.

Please let me know.

Doc Cool

Addendum:

I just put the little SANDisk SD Flash card in my Kodak camera and the camera immediately wanted to reformat it.
I had formatted it in my PC as "Spare Disk" in FAT-32 mode.

The camera reformatted it almost instantly as "Kodak" and in FAT mode.

Make sure your card does not have a write-protect tab on it.
If it does, it must be slid toward the end with the contacts on it.

bern · Joined: Mar 12, 2007 Posts: 1487 Location: ann arbor

Thanks for the suggestions. I thought I had done all of that, but I did it all again to make sure.

I reformatted the card in my computer, first as a FAT32, then as a FAT. I got en error message each time in the camera: "Unable to use card". And in the camera's format menu, the commands were all greyed out and non functional. As I mentioned before, the camera works perfectly with other cards, and worked perfectly with this card before I screwed up.

I then tried a different WinXP computer to format the card. Same result.

I notice in the format requester there is a space for "allocation unit size" and the only choice is "default". I wonder if that is the problem.

Apparently your Kodak has a more tolerant system than my Minolta. I would have thought it would try to format a wood chip if asked. Very Happy

bern · Joined: Mar 12, 2007 Posts: 1487 Location: ann arbor

Maybe I will take the Compact Flash card to Circuit City, and use one of their Kodak cameras to format the card... Very Happy

Baby_Tux · Joined: Mar 06, 2007 Posts: 1242

zlim · Joined: Mar 11, 2005 Posts: 2747

found this on a camera site

bern · Joined: Mar 12, 2007 Posts: 1487 Location: ann arbor

Thanks. The card in question is a 1 gig card.

I also have a 2 gig card which works and a 512 meg card that works.

I will probably wait until the next card sale, then buy another 2 gig card, and in exchange, see if any of the store's cameras can format my broken card.

But, dadgummit! there must be another solution out there, or at least an explanation.

pasquanel · Joined: Jun 20, 2005 Posts: 517 Location: Maine

I had a similar experience with a Sony Memory stick when I formated it using my computer and got the same error message you did.
The camera did not recognize the card but I tried to reformat using the camera and at first it would not format but after a dozen or so tries it did format the card and has worked well ever since. Surprised

drwho07 · Joined: Nov 29, 2007 Posts: 2238 Location: Central FL, USA

Bern,
I've found out, by my own experimentation, that there's many aspects of Flash Memory cards that people just don't understand.

Many think of it like a hard drive.... it is NOT.
Some think you can treat is like you would a HD, and partition it, etc.
You can't.

Hard drive maintenance/manipulation programs like Partition magic can't even see it.

Flash drives are still pretty much an unknown quantity.
Finding good info on them is difficult to say the least.

I have a little flash drive that was given to me by another tech, and it is electronically Locked. It takes a special program to "Un-Lock" it.
Actually I believe it's a hardware "Dongle".
But whether its a dongle or program, whatever it is, I don't have it, so I can't do a darned thing with it.

Bern, whatever you find out about that little FD, I'd like to know about it.

You can always use it as a boot disk for your computer.
I have several little 64 meg FD's that I use that way.
I have one with Ghost 8.3 (2005) on it and one with NTFS4DOS on it.

They are so tiny, you can load'em up with software, even make them bootable and take them with you anywhere. Drop it in your pocket or stick it in your wallet. Wink

You can still use that little FD just the way it is, just not in your camera.

Hmmmmm! I just now stuck a little 2 meg FD in my card reader and did a disk-check on it. No problems! Then I tried to defrag it and Defrag told me the file structure was 12 bit FAT, and it couldn't deal with 12 bit FAT.
It suggested to me that I change it to fat 16, FAT-32 or even NTFS, before it could defrag it. Question

It just gets weirderer and weirderer!

Y'all have a great day now. Y'hear?

The Doctor Cool

goretsky

Hello,

If you have a CompactFlash to PATA adapter, you may be able to install the CompactFlash card into a computer as a normal ATA hard disk drive, then use the FDISK and FORMAT commands to erase it.

You may also have luck erasing the CompactFlash card by booting the PC in questioin from one of the live Linux CDs normally used for troubleshooting computer problems.

In the past, I have used DataRescue.Com's PhotoRescue software with good results to recover data from xD-Picture Cards. I would suspect it works on CompactFlash cards, too, if you are interested in recovering any of the data.

Regards,

Aryeh Goretsky

bern · Joined: Mar 12, 2007 Posts: 1487 Location: ann arbor

bern · Joined: Mar 12, 2007 Posts: 1487 Location: ann arbor

OK here's sort of a bottom line.

I went to the local Circuit City, and proposed to buy a compact flash card on sale if they let me format my compact flash card in one of their cameras. They said "no problem. You don't even need to buy a card"

Then they promptly found a Canon SLR that uses CF cards, and inserted my card. The camera liked it and did not complain. I suggested using the camera to format the card anyway, which they did.

I brought the card home, and my camera immediately recognized the card and it is fully usable.

So, a camera formatting a card (even a different make from my Minolta) does write something special to the card that a computer does not do. Some cameras like my Minolta really really care about that something, and others (the Canon) don't care, but write that something anyway when asked to.

So, does anybody have any idea what it is that cameras write to cards when formatting them that computers do not do?

BTW, I bought the extra card anyway out of gratitude.

goretsky

Hello,

My best guess would be that the operating system on the computer performs more checks on the media before attempting to format it then the operating system embedded in the camera.

Regards,

Aryeh Goretsky

Baby_Tux · Joined: Mar 06, 2007 Posts: 1242

drwho07 · Joined: Nov 29, 2007 Posts: 2238 Location: Central FL, USA

Repeat:

My Kodak camera formats an SD card as FAT-12.
The best my PC can do is FAT-16, just called "FAT". (or FAT-32)

Look at that card now, in Windows, but don't write to it.

See if it's not in FAT-12 mode.

I for one would be curious to know.

Cheers Mate!
The Doctor Cool

bern · Joined: Mar 12, 2007 Posts: 1487 Location: ann arbor

drwho07 · Joined: Nov 29, 2007 Posts: 2238 Location: Central FL, USA

I was afraid you were going to ask me that. Laughing

Right this moment, I don't remember.
Maybe is was 'Defrag'.
Whatever program is was, it told me I'd have to change the format on that drive before it could work with it.

Just checked and YES it is Defrag. You can't use "Analyze" .... you actually have to try to Defrag it.

Error: image could not be loaded. Image is not available from server

Image URL: http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g90/DrWho1943/Fat12.jpg

This was one of my little 64meg SD Flash cards that I'm sure was formatted in my Kodak Easy Share CD40.

I 'could' just reformat it on my PC, but for grins and giggles, I think I'll leave it the way it is. Wink

Cheers Mate!
The Doctor Cool

bern · Joined: Mar 12, 2007 Posts: 1487 Location: ann arbor

I tried the defragmenter. It did not complain. It just defragmented. It did tell me that I really didn't need to defragment an almost empty card, but it went ahead and did it anyway. I looked at the report. Nothing about FAT-12 anywhere.

Then I got a feeling of horror. What if the card had stopped working after the defrag.

It didn't. It works as before. I don't think it is a FAT-12 issue, at this point.