| Next: Video:Congrats to 10,000th Dutch shoplifter |
| Author |
Message |
Sgt Schultz
Joined: Dec 07, 2002
Posts: 7378
Location: St. Louis area
|
 Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:49 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
|
|
|
| Terrorism comes in many different shapes and forms. It isn't just limited to Muslims attacking Americans.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Sgt Schultz
Joined: Dec 07, 2002
Posts: 7378
Location: St. Louis area
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:52 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
|
|
From the Memorial Institute for the Prevention of Terrorism.
# What is terrorism?
# Terrorism is violence, or the threat of violence, calculated to create an atmosphere of fear and alarm. These acts are designed to coerce others into actions they would not otherwise undertake, or refrain from actions they desired to take. All acts of terrorism are crimes. Many would also be a violation of the rules of war if a state of war existed. This violence or threat of violence is generally directed against civilian targets. The motives of all terrorists are political, and terrorist actions are generally carried out in a way that will achieve maximum publicity. Unlike other criminal acts, terrorists often claim responsibility for their acts. Finally, terrorist acts are intended to produce effects beyond the immediate, having long-term psychological repercussions on a particular victim audience. The fear created by terrorists may be intended to cause people to exaggerate the strengths of the terrorist and the importance of the cause, to provoke governmental overreaction, to discourage dissent, or simply to intimidate and thereby enforce compliance with their demands.
MIPT's Frequently Asked Questions |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
xavierx
Joined: Nov 06, 2004
Posts: 5425
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:23 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
|
|
| ejward wrote: |
| If a sniper were picking people off around you, you'd be terrified. If you received anthrax in the mail, I'm sure you would be terrified too. |
There is a big difference in being terrified and terrorized. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
xavierx
Joined: Nov 06, 2004
Posts: 5425
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:25 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
|
|
| Sgt Schultz wrote: |
From the Memorial Institute for the Prevention of Terrorism.
# What is terrorism?
# Terrorism is violence, or the threat of violence, calculated to create an atmosphere of fear and alarm. These acts are designed to coerce others into actions they would not otherwise undertake, or refrain from actions they desired to take. All acts of terrorism are crimes. Many would also be a violation of the rules of war if a state of war existed. This violence or threat of violence is generally directed against civilian targets. The motives of all terrorists are political, and terrorist actions are generally carried out in a way that will achieve maximum publicity. Unlike other criminal acts, terrorists often claim responsibility for their acts. Finally, terrorist acts are intended to produce effects beyond the immediate, having long-term psychological repercussions on a particular victim audience. The fear created by terrorists may be intended to cause people to exaggerate the strengths of the terrorist and the importance of the cause, to provoke governmental overreaction, to discourage dissent, or simply to intimidate and thereby enforce compliance with their demands.
MIPT's Frequently Asked Questions |
None of the aforementioned crimes were political. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ejward
Joined: Jan 06, 2003
Posts: 7054
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 6:43 am Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
|
|
| xavierx wrote: |
| ejward wrote: |
| If a sniper were picking people off around you, you'd be terrified. If you received anthrax in the mail, I'm sure you would be terrified too. |
There is a big difference in being terrified and terrorized. |
I'm sure that's exactly what the victims were thinking. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sgt Schultz
Joined: Dec 07, 2002
Posts: 7378
Location: St. Louis area
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 9:07 am Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
|
|
| xavierx wrote: |
| None of the aforementioned crimes were political. |
It seems like the FBI and other agencies disagree with you since they consider them terrorism. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
xavierx
Joined: Nov 06, 2004
Posts: 5425
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:44 am Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
|
|
| Sgt Schultz wrote: |
| xavierx wrote: |
| None of the aforementioned crimes were political. |
It seems like the FBI and other agencies disagree with you since they consider them terrorism. |
Like I said, fighting terrorism is how you get money these days, and I'm not surprised the FBI would claim things are terrorism even when they don't meet their own definition. You've been in the government, I know you know what I'm talking about, even if you disagree. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CowpokeBob
Joined: Feb 07, 2006
Posts: 1501
Location: South Carolina, USA
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:57 am Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
|
|
| xavierx wrote: |
| Sgt Schultz wrote: |
| xavierx wrote: |
| None of the aforementioned crimes were political. |
It seems like the FBI and other agencies disagree with you since they consider them terrorism. |
Like I said, fighting terrorism is how you get money these days, and I'm not surprised the FBI would claim things are terrorism even when they don't meet their own definition. You've been in the government, I know you know what I'm talking about, even if you disagree. |
Like I said. If you look at the definition none of these meet the requirements of the definintion. But if the FBI or you wish to call them an act of terrorism you are free to do so. I don't choose to. For the record I didn't think the tainted tylenol murders were terrorism either but a sick attempt at extorting money. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
xavierx
Joined: Nov 06, 2004
Posts: 5425
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:04 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
|
|
| CowpokeBob wrote: |
| Like I said. If you look at the definition none of these meet the requirements of the definintion. But if the FBI or you wish to call them an act of terrorism you are free to do so. I don't choose to. For the record I didn't think the tainted tylenol murders were terrorism either but a sick attempt at extorting money. |
Exactly. Not every crime is terrorism. By the arguments I've seen here, every serial criminal is a terrorist, which is obviously not true. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CowpokeBob
Joined: Feb 07, 2006
Posts: 1501
Location: South Carolina, USA
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:04 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
|
|
| ejward wrote: |
| If a sniper were picking people off around you, you'd be terrified. If you received anthrax in the mail, I'm sure you would be terrified too. |
If a sniper were picking people off around me I would have my own weapon close at hand and hope his aim was worse than mine. If I received anthrax in the mail its likely I'd be scared stiff all right. Yes I would be rightfully terrified in each of those cases and plenty of others I can think of but I still wouldn't call it terrorism unless it met the definition. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ejward
Joined: Jan 06, 2003
Posts: 7054
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:52 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
|
|
| CowpokeBob wrote: |
| ejward wrote: |
| If a sniper were picking people off around you, you'd be terrified. If you received anthrax in the mail, I'm sure you would be terrified too. |
If a sniper were picking people off around me I would have my own weapon close at hand and hope his aim was worse than mine. . |
How often do you walk around with a sniper rifle? What weapon could you possibly use to shoot a sniper at a great distance? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sgt Schultz
Joined: Dec 07, 2002
Posts: 7378
Location: St. Louis area
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:22 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
|
|
| I suppose abortion clinic bombings and shooting of doctors isn't terrorism either. It's only terrorism if it's foreigners doing it? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
xavierx
Joined: Nov 06, 2004
Posts: 5425
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:34 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
|
|
| Sgt Schultz wrote: |
| I suppose abortion clinic bombings and shooting of doctors isn't terrorism either. It's only terrorism if it's foreigners doing it? |
No, I think that meets the definitions quoted. There is a clear intent to use murders to achieve a political purpose. It doesn't matter where they're from, just what they do and what the intent is, kind of like hate crimes are different from regular crimes. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sgt Schultz
Joined: Dec 07, 2002
Posts: 7378
Location: St. Louis area
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:40 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
|
|
| xavierx wrote: |
| Sgt Schultz wrote: |
| I suppose abortion clinic bombings and shooting of doctors isn't terrorism either. It's only terrorism if it's foreigners doing it? |
No, I think that meets the definitions quoted. There is a clear intent to use killings to achieve a political purpose. |
What political purpose? They aren't committing these act against the government to force the government to change the law. They're committing these acts against civilians to either kill them or make them scared enough that they won't perform abortions. The same with groups like ELF. They aren't attacking the government so they aren't committing acts of terrorism I guess. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
xavierx
Joined: Nov 06, 2004
Posts: 5425
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:45 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
|
|
| Why are you trying to fight, Sgt. Schultz? You seem intent on twisting what I or CowpokeBob say. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sgt Schultz
Joined: Dec 07, 2002
Posts: 7378
Location: St. Louis area
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:51 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
|
|
| xavierx wrote: |
| Why are you trying to fight, Sgt. Schultz? You seem intent on twisting what I or CowpokeBob say. |
I'm not twisting anything. I'm trying to show that terrorism takes many forms. It isn't always directed at the government. It isn't always black & white. It can also be directed at business' and people. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
xavierx
Joined: Nov 06, 2004
Posts: 5425
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:10 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
|
|
| Sgt Schultz wrote: |
| xavierx wrote: |
| Why are you trying to fight, Sgt. Schultz? You seem intent on twisting what I or CowpokeBob say. |
I'm not twisting anything. I'm trying to show that terrorism takes many forms. It isn't always directed at the government. It isn't always black & white. It can also be directed at business' and people. |
And who said it could only be directed at the government? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sgt Schultz
Joined: Dec 07, 2002
Posts: 7378
Location: St. Louis area
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:34 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
|
|
| xavierx wrote: |
| And who said it could only be directed at the government? |
For it to be for political gain would it not have to be directed against the government? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
xavierx
Joined: Nov 06, 2004
Posts: 5425
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:52 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
|
|
| Sgt Schultz wrote: |
| For it to be for political gain would it not have to be directed against the government? |
Not to mince words, but I said "political purpose". Abortion clinic bombers are trying to stop society from performing/having abortions - in other words, trying to change our society, thus achieving a political purpose. I didn't mean for a minute that abortion clinic bombers were trying to get a Senate seat - that takes about $10 million. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sgt Schultz
Joined: Dec 07, 2002
Posts: 7378
Location: St. Louis area
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:58 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
|
|
| xavierx wrote: |
| Sgt Schultz wrote: |
| For it to be for political gain would it not have to be directed against the government? |
Not to mince words, but I said "political purpose". Abortion clinic bombers are trying to stop society from performing/having abortions - in other words, trying to change our society, thus achieving a political purpose. I didn't mean for a minute that abortion clinic bombers were trying to get a Senate seat - that takes about $10 million. |
Ok, we're getting somewhere. When the anthrax attack happened it caused changes to our society i.e. the way the postal service works, how packages and envelopes are handled at business'. They exploited what they saw as weakness to attack. The same way that the attacks on 9/11 changed procedures in this country. While one of the goals was to kill as many as possible they also caused us to restrict what we considered freedom in many things. Any attack that causes us to change how we act, how we live, how we operate as a society is political in that sense isn't it?
As for $10 million, it obviously wasn't enough to buy it. Rod was trying to lowball and it cost him. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
General