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nlinecomputers

Joined: Jul 25, 2003 Posts: 1701
Location: Anywhere but this forum.
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Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:47 am Post subject: The Big Lie About 'Islamic Fascism Part II. |
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As starter of that topic I object to it's being locked. NO one was off topic and I going to post a reply to Don:
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| Well Ken, using your definition the Arabs could very well be Fascists. |
I disagree. Just being racist doesn't make you a fascist.
By the numbers:
They don't fall under #1. I don't see very much use of national flags, parades, or emblems in Arab counties. The Arabs are very much balkinized. Not much National unity there.
#2 Fits. Most of those countries DO violate human rights.
#3 Debatable. Many feel that there claims are legitimate. Israel is on land that is claimed by the Arabs for centuries and vis a vis. I would say Israel is a real not an imagined threat to Arab lands. And Arabs are a real threat to Israel. Please show me the Iraqis that flew into the WTC or the Pentagon? I see mostly Saudis. So why the heck aren't we bombing S.A. into the stone age?
#4 I'll give that one to you.
#5 Ditto.
#6 al jazeera is some ways qualifies but they also complain about Western Media influence in the area. (this one gets a mixed rating for the US as well. The neocons have FOX news but they also have CNN. But in my opinion that is just one group of fascists (the Clinton gang) vs another group of fascists (the Bush boys). So this is the weakest link on both sides.
#7 I don't really see that from Arabs. They don't really have spy networks or secret police.
#8 Obvious though I remind you that Iraq was considered by Iraqis a SECULAR country and several different religious factions have been fighting over it for years.
#9 What corporations? Hamas or Hezbollah has control of a corporation?
#10 I honestly don't know what Hamas' or Hezbollah's opinion of trade unions are. Most Arab counties do have trade guilds so I say this one fails it.
#11 Plenty of Arabs come to america to be educated. Lack of money and resources doesn't equal surpression per se. There will be some censorship so I might give you 1/4 of this one.
#12 Yes and no. They have Harsh laws but most are well known.
#13 Depends on the country but for the most part true.
#14 Does ANYONE not have fraudulent elections.
OK so what does this leave us. Most of the conditions above are met by the Arabs with one notable exception. The economic ones. What was my complaint in the beginning.
Being a ruthless dictator does NOT make you a fascist. Which is why both Hitler and Stalin fail this test.
Hitler crushed the trade unions but wasn't as controlling of the corporations as Mussolini was and Stalin was obviously the ultimate union guy.
You will note that racism isn't one the listed ideas either. Mussolini was not concerned about race or religious belief. Only the state. Hitler was greatly concerned with both. As are many Arabs but not all.
Also if you don't think Arabs are fascists then why DID you make this remark. Which remark did you lie about and why? |
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Gary66

Joined: Sep 01, 2005 Posts: 8353
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Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: The Big Lie About 'Islamic Fascism Part II. [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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kenmabmcc

Joined: Nov 20, 2003 Posts: 8180
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand.
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Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: The Big Lie About 'Islamic Fascism Part II. [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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The jihadists are fundamental theocrats,
not fascists. |
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Gary66

Joined: Sep 01, 2005 Posts: 8353
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Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:40 pm Post subject: Re: The Big Lie About 'Islamic Fascism Part II. [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| kenmabmcc wrote: |
The jihadists are fundamental theocrats,
not fascists. |
And their theory is death to all that do not believe as they do. |
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kenmabmcc

Joined: Nov 20, 2003 Posts: 8180
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand.
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Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:32 am Post subject: Re: The Big Lie About 'Islamic Fascism Part II. [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| Gary66 wrote: |
| kenmabmcc wrote: |
The jihadists are fundamental theocrats,
not fascists. |
And their theory is death to all that do not believe as they do. |
What has that to do with fascism? |
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al bundy

Joined: Jun 26, 2004 Posts: 938
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Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:46 am Post subject: Re: The Big Lie About 'Islamic Fascism Part II. [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| only a liberal would care what the enemy is labeled as. calling them something nice is not going to change them. the difference between a republican and a democrat is if the enemy calls our president something disparaging we take offense while the democrats agree with the enemy or the enemy agrees with the democrats. |
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donrc

Joined: Feb 16, 2003 Posts: 882
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Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:10 am Post subject: Re: The Big Lie About 'Islamic Fascism Part II. [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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Nathan,
Here is the definition that Ken posted:
3.) Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause: The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
If that is his definition of a Fascist then the Islamists definitely qualify. I didn't say it is MY definition of a Fascist.
And is it really necessary for your posts to get so nasty? Calling me a liar over something I haven't even been able to figure out is not very nice.
Learn to cuss people out using business English. It annoys them more.
drc |
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kenmabmcc

Joined: Nov 20, 2003 Posts: 8180
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand.
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:11 am Post subject: Re: The Big Lie About 'Islamic Fascism Part II. [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| donrc wrote: |
3.) Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause: The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
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This has happened in America at various times before Bush who needed a frenzy to retain his dubiously attained presidency and now for the upcoming elections.......... |
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nlinecomputers

Joined: Jul 25, 2003 Posts: 1701
Location: Anywhere but this forum.
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 1:06 am Post subject: Re: The Big Lie About 'Islamic Fascism Part II. [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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Sir I've have either misunderstood you or you deliberately contradict yourself.
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| What is all the fuss about semantics here? I agree that the terrorists do not fit the definition of fascists. |
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Well Ken, using your definition the Arabs could very well be Fascists.
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Those statements are contradictory. If you agree with me that Arabic Terrorist don't fit the definition of fascists then the statement about Ken's list, which fits Fascism quite well IMO(the opinion you say you agree with), invalidates your first statement. Either you lied or you spoke hastedly.
But I can eat crow with the best of them. Please offer your definition of fascism because right now you are dancing on both sides of that fence. |
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donrc

Joined: Feb 16, 2003 Posts: 882
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:22 am Post subject: Re: The Big Lie About 'Islamic Fascism Part II. [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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Nathan,
I believe I said using the definition he posted. There were, no doubt, many more in the reference he also posted which I did not read.
And no, by my definition they are not Fascists. They are, if possible, much worse than that. Beheadings and the murder of innocents were not usully chracteristics of Fascists.
Which is a distinction without a difference. The point is that we had better start realizing that they intend to kill as many of us "infidels" as possible and stop fussing among ourselves about it.
Does that satisfy your liking for exactness?
drc |
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kenmabmcc

Joined: Nov 20, 2003 Posts: 8180
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand.
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:09 pm Post subject: Re: The Big Lie About 'Islamic Fascism Part II. [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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Sam Schultz, who served in Iraq and Afghanistan
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| First, we are not fighting an enemy that fits the definition of fascist, nor does Iraq resemble anything close to Hitler's Germany or Mussolini's Italy. Second,I do not believe the war in Iraq has furthered our war against radical Islamism. I can attest to the fact that after my time in Iraq, when I served in Afghanistan, we did not have enough people on the ground there to secure the border with Pakistan, and as a result, many terrorists slipped through our grasp, most likely including Osama bin Laden. |
From a guy that was there..... |
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xavierx

Joined: Nov 06, 2004 Posts: 5427
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: The Big Lie About 'Islamic Fascism Part II. [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| I'm always amazed at how the same people who bad mouth the military and denounce any report a military person makes that supports the war against terrorism or Bush will agree wholeheartedly with the few military people who don't support the war Bush. You (generically) can't have it both ways - either the military is full of idiots or it isn't. Pick one and stick with it. |
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kenmabmcc

Joined: Nov 20, 2003 Posts: 8180
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand.
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:42 pm Post subject: Re: The Big Lie About 'Islamic Fascism Part II. [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| xavierx wrote: |
| I'm always amazed at how the same people who bad mouth the military and denounce any report a military person makes that supports the war against terrorism or Bush will agree wholeheartedly with the few military people who don't support the war Bush. You (generically) can't have it both ways - either the military is full of idiots or it isn't. Pick one and stick with it. |
Having served alongside, and with, military persons of many nations, including America,
I am aware that the military is full of people of varied mental skills.
I do not mind badmouthing the Bush administration strategy of neverending war or the tactics used by the Generals in this pursuit,
but not the individual troops who merely follow the directions of their political masters. |
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Gary66

Joined: Sep 01, 2005 Posts: 8353
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Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 12:57 pm Post subject: Re: The Big Lie About 'Islamic Fascism Part II. [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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Anyone who still believe that this is not a problem should watch this video:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0487116/ |
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