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kenmabmcc
Joined: Nov 20, 2003
Posts: 8181
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand.
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 Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 6:42 am Post subject: 22 Percent And Out Of Ideas |
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The dizzying downward spiral of the Republican Party
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But even when Republicans speak of the future these days, they sound like the voice of the past. They turn for new ideas to Newt Gingrich, whose biggest idea was to close down the federal government to force Bill Clinton to slash Medicare payments. They turn to Cheney for guidance on national defense and to Rush Limbaugh to set the standards for party orthodoxy.
They hold anti-tax rallies to protest an administration that has cut taxes for the vast majority of Americans. They see a bill that would rein in credit card companies as an opportunity to slip in an amendment that would allow Americans to bring concealed and loaded guns into national parks. Their national committee considers a resolution expressing the sense of the body that the Democrats should rename themselves the "Democrat Socialist Party."
They offer no solutions for the nation's problems but are chock-full of solutions for issues (such as the lack of concealed weapons in Yellowstone) that aren't problems. They play with renaming the Democrats while they're the ones with the identity crisis.
But there's a reason they enumerate old themes and gravitate to the most peripheral ones imaginable -- a reason that's neither old nor peripheral. The economic crisis has plunged their worldview into crisis, if not negated it altogether. What's more, several leading conservative economists and thinkers have acknowledged as much, though none has really suggested a plausible alternative course. |
Looks like the republicans have got some rebuilding their connections to the middle ground to do.....
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Gezzer
Joined: Oct 19, 2008
Posts: 666
Location: Buckinghamshire England
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 6:55 am Post subject: |
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| you don't expect the 'old' guard to support change, heaven forbid, lets have the same old same old 'as its always worked before' (fill in the blanks)
well the times 'they are a'changing' and a new world is dawning. live with it …
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CowpokeBob
Joined: Feb 07, 2006
Posts: 1501
Location: South Carolina, USA
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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Yep, just what the Republican party needs...A bunch of Liberals telling them how to run thier party.  |
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kenmabmcc
Joined: Nov 20, 2003
Posts: 8181
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand.
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 7:01 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| CowpokeBob wrote: |
| Yep, just what the Republican party needs...A bunch of Liberals telling them how to run thier party. |
I think the Liberals will be well pleased with the way republicans run their party...
...and would not wish to change their downward spiral....
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CowpokeBob
Joined: Feb 07, 2006
Posts: 1501
Location: South Carolina, USA
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 7:15 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| kenmabmcc wrote: |
| CowpokeBob wrote: |
| Yep, just what the Republican party needs...A bunch of Liberals telling them how to run thier party. |
I think the Liberals will be well pleased with the way republicans run their party...
...and would not wish to change their downward spiral....
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I don't know about the Republicans but I wouldn't want the Libs to stop thier downward spiral either.
As for the Republican party the only problem I have with it is too many Democrats in it. |
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kenmabmcc
Joined: Nov 20, 2003
Posts: 8181
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand.
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 6:07 am Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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Two Republicans blame conservatives
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| “Ultimately, we're heading to having the smallest political tent in history, the way things are unfolding,” Snowe said. |
That would please the Democrats....
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kenmabmcc
Joined: Nov 20, 2003
Posts: 8181
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand.
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 6:46 am Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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Republicans remain more inclined toward self-immolation
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Dick Cheney's emergence as Leader of the Opposition delights two groups, one small and shrinking, the other large and growing. The small group is movement conservatives, who regard the former vice president as their grumbling tribune. The large group is the Democrats, who see in Cheney the scowling face of a minority party that intends to stay that way.
The only people unhappy about Cheney's prominence, in fact, are members of that dwindling, persecuted not-even-a-faction known as moderate Republicans. |
Without the moderates, the republican tent is going to get ever smaller.....
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CowpokeBob
Joined: Feb 07, 2006
Posts: 1501
Location: South Carolina, USA
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 11:01 am Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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[quote="kenmabmcc"]Two Republicans blame conservatives
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| “Ultimately, we're heading to having the smallest political tent in history, the way things are unfolding,” Snowe said. |
Like I've said before...too many failed Democrats in the Republican party. Snowe is practically a Democrat in all but party and Graham has to run as a Republican because it is next to impossible for a Democrat to get elected in S.C.
So of course those two would see it that way. I tend to look at it as sweeping out the unwanted elements that don't belong in the tent to make room for those that are willing to uphold the ideas espoused by that tent. Other than as a good political strategy to try and divide the Republican party I will never understand the mentality that states the Party must change its platform and beliefs so those that don't uphold those beliefs can feel accepted by the Party rather than the those people amending their beliefs in order to be accepted by the Party. That is after all the way it works for anything else. You either accept the rules and principles of the organization as they are or you go seek life elsewhere. No other club, organization, order, church, or political party would ever accept the idea they must change their membership policies to please folks that want to join but don't believe as that group does. To do so would mean the end of that group as something identifiable by its beleifs.
You don't hear anything like that being said from or about the Democratic Party. Quite the opposite as a matter of fact. Rather than enlarge their tent to accept folks like me we are marginalized, called names and told we must change our point of view to fit their ideology before we can be taken seriously or accepted.
So my answer to your comment Ken is this. Good for them and if they leave...Good Riddence!
Last edited by CowpokeBob on Sun May 31, 2009 5:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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CowpokeBob
Joined: Feb 07, 2006
Posts: 1501
Location: South Carolina, USA
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 11:21 am Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| kenmabmcc wrote: |
Republicans remain more inclined toward self-immolation
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Dick Cheney's emergence as Leader of the Opposition delights two groups, one small and shrinking, the other large and growing. The small group is movement conservatives, who regard the former vice president as their grumbling tribune. The large group is the Democrats, who see in Cheney the scowling face of a minority party that intends to stay that way.
The only people unhappy about Cheney's prominence, in fact, are members of that dwindling, persecuted not-even-a-faction known as moderate Republicans. |
Without the moderates, the republican tent is going to get ever smaller.....
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| Like I've said before...too many failed Democrats in the Republican party. |
You'll never get it Ken. Whatever title you choose to assign them "moderates" are not wanted any more in the Republican party then they are in the Democratic party. They are a wishy washy bunch that you just can't trust to be in your side when it really counts. It really doesn't matter how many opinion pieces from liberal leaning papers, blogs, or other media outlets you post. Simple fact is when the Republicans run on Conservative values, they win. When they don't, they lose. McCain was an excellent example. He was pretty much on a slowly sinking ship until he picked a strong conservative as a running mate. It was no accident of chance that Palin drew crowds many times larger than the ones McCain drew. In fact the ticket was closing the gap and making a real race of it right up until the bottom fell out of the economy. A situation which historically favors Democrats since they promise all those sweet nothings folks love to hear when times are bad even if they never deliver on any of them. I would not have voted for McCain had he chosen a "moderate" running mate.
I would love to see the Republicans boot out all the so called "moderates" and once again stand on their core conservative ideals. I might even consider joining the party if they did. That is after all why conservatives are referred to as the "base" of the Republican Party. No structure can stand without its base. I say get back to conservative basics, no more of this moderate, big tent mumbo jumbo and let the people decide which set of values they support . Given a clear choice between Conservative and Liberal I think Conservative values would win out. And that's what scares the heck out of liberals the most after all isn't it. |
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xavierx
Joined: Nov 06, 2004
Posts: 5427
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 1:37 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| Interesting spin in that opening opinion piece. Republicans lost 4%, and they're "out of ideas". Democrats, who won the election, lost 6%. What does that say about them? It says that people bought the Obama lies, and are now realizing they were suckered. |
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tony7914
Joined: Dec 24, 2004
Posts: 4965
Location: Peru Indiana
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 3:07 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| Gezzer wrote: |
you don't expect the 'old' guard to support change, heaven forbid, lets have the same old same old 'as its always worked before' (fill in the blanks)
well the times 'they are a'changing' and a new world is dawning. live with it … |
Someone correct me if I am wrong but didn't the Democrats go through something like this when they got their tail handed to them the last time?
The balance of power changes and flows so this is not much in the way of news nor is it a death knell, odds are some republicans are/will/have gotten their walking papers and will be replaced. The party might be hurting but the base is still very much there just like it was with the Democrats back then. |
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CowpokeBob
Joined: Feb 07, 2006
Posts: 1501
Location: South Carolina, USA
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 5:55 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| tony7914 wrote: |
| Gezzer wrote: |
you don't expect the 'old' guard to support change, heaven forbid, lets have the same old same old 'as its always worked before' (fill in the blanks)
well the times 'they are a'changing' and a new world is dawning. live with it … |
Someone correct me if I am wrong but didn't the Democrats go through something like this when they got their tail handed to them the last time?
The balance of power changes and flows so this is not much in the way of news nor is it a death knell, odds are some republicans are/will/have gotten their walking papers and will be replaced. The party might be hurting but the base is still very much there just like it was with the Democrats back then. |
This is the second time I know of that the Republican party has gone into what I guess you could call soul searching mode after suffering a defeat at the ballot box. I'm not so sure about the Democrats because I don't really follow their party dealings (not my cup of tea). I wouldn't doubt they have done or do something similar to what the Republicans are now doing after a loss.
Likewise I can't confirm anything about the Liberal base of the Democrats but I can assure you the Conservative base of the Republican party is alive and well. And out for blood. Not only are they pissed off over the damage the Liberals run amock currently in power are wreaking right now they feel very betrayed by many in the so called moderate wing of their own party. So yes there are going to be a few more Spectors either changing affiliation or profession come election time but like I said. I think the prospects are looking very good for any Conservative Republicans that want to run anywhere in the country in the next couple of elections.
Speaking of political ebbs and tides the times right now are slanted heavily towards the Democrats but they are shifting. The recession and poor economy are good historically good for bringing Democrats to power. When times are tough people like to hear what the government is going to do to ease the pain. Whether they actually do anything or not. Something you don't hear much from Republicans who are known for being more about personal responsibility and pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps, not the governments. Likewise war has always been a breeding ground for Liberal activism and a draw for the Democrats. The anti-war and peace movements are magnets for Liberal Democrats while Conservatives tend to the view that sometimes force is necessary to preserve the peace. As all these factors change so do the political tides. Also a playing a huge role inthe ebb and flow is which party is in power when these forces change and to what extent they are blamed for the changes. This could be a bad thing for Democrats right now since they currently hold absolute power so everything that doesn't go well will ultimately be attributed to them. Its the same sort of thing that the Republican party experienced in the last two elections and it will bring about the demise of the Democratic party in the next two in my humble opinion. |
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kenmabmcc
Joined: Nov 20, 2003
Posts: 8181
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:19 am Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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If any party wishes to have a majority in any election they must have policies that appeal to a wide range of voters,
todays republicans do not wish to do so..
...this is reflected in their lack of election successes...
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CowpokeBob
Joined: Feb 07, 2006
Posts: 1501
Location: South Carolina, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:05 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| kenmabmcc wrote: |
If any party wishes to have a majority in any election they must have policies that appeal to a wide range of voters,
todays republicans do not wish to do so..
...this is reflected in their lack of election successes...
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Suffering losses in a couple of elections over a period of eight years is not a catastrophic defeat. More to the point when Republicans (that is who we are talking about I assume) run on their core conservative values they win. When they try to be all things to all people they don't. Just as simple as that. If they want to start winning again all they need to do is quit acting like a bunch of Democrats. |
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kenmabmcc
Joined: Nov 20, 2003
Posts: 8181
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:34 am Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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Right.
The republican problem is that the majority of the population cannot see the relevance,
of those core conservative values to their lives in this time of many job losses.
For instance..limited unemployment benefits...do not work when unemployment is rising so fast.
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xavierx
Joined: Nov 06, 2004
Posts: 5427
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:20 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| kenmabmcc wrote: |
Right.
The republican problem is that the majority of the population cannot see the relevance,
of those core conservative values to their lives in this time of many job losses.
For instance..limited unemployment benefits...do not work when unemployment is rising so fast.
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Nice twist. You assume that conservatives want to limit benefits at all costs, wheres in reality we want to limit unneeded benefits (aka the welfare state). We're quite in favor of helping those who really need help.
It's disingenuous at best to imply that government mandated "charity" is the only kind of charity that can exist.
Try this article:
http://www.city-journal.org/html/rev2007-01-18hh.html
You'll see things like:
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| the average conservative-headed household gives 30 percent more money to charity than the average liberal-headed one ($1,600 compared with $1,227), despite earning 6 percent less annually. |
The difference between liberals and conservatives is that conservatives give their own time and money to help those in need - liberals giver other people's money. |
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CowpokeBob
Joined: Feb 07, 2006
Posts: 1501
Location: South Carolina, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:15 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.] |
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| kenmabmcc wrote: |
Right.
The republican problem is that the majority of the population cannot see the relevance,
of those core conservative values to their lives in this time of many job losses.
For instance..limited unemployment benefits...do not work when unemployment is rising so fast.
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I've already told you . Conservative Republicans don't have a problem. It's all those Republicrats that are having an identity crises. 
Here's some relevance for you. If you limit unemployment benefits the unemployment rate goes down. Why? Because its awful hard to live off nothing. If you aren't getting a government check to sit at home and watch reality TV shows you tend to get off your duff and go find a job. That is if you want to eat. Just ask the Germans how well that works.
Of course if folks were following those core conservative values to begin with there its highly unlikely there would be a rapidly rising unemployment rate in the first place. Or a host of other ills that we have the present administration to thank for.
Just a bit more perspective for you. I have been unemployed for an extended period of time (more than a few months) three times during my 30+ years in the workforce and I have never drawn an unemployment check. Because I adhere to those core values you find so offensive I have always been able to save while things were good and to weather the hard times as a result. |
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